Musicologists sign on for post-truth opportunities
NewsAn academic discipline that has lost almost all relevance to music has called an online seminar on ‘Post-Truth and the Musical Humanities’.
Speakers include Philip Ewell (Hunter College, CUNY) on “Polarization in Music Theory” and Robert Fink (University of California, Los Angeles) on “The Empirical Strikes Back: Pop Music, Data Science, and the White Racial Frame”.
Each with his/her/their/ political agenda.
I think we can guess where this is heading.
Except for the fevered egos taking part, who actually cares? No one sane anyway
I am an avid music listener and enjoyed hearing the brilliant but sadly now-late Michael Steinberg several times and discussing some things with him when he worked for the Minnesota Orchestra. But, it is hard to imagine anything less interesting in the present day than these two careerists arguing about how many ghosts fit on the head of a pin.
Steinberg may be dead but lots of his insightful and clear program notes remain and are accessible at the SFSO and elsewhere.
Someone should task a group of these latterday pinheads to compile all extant program notes for every piece of music at a nice free portal in exchange for a grant.
There are several published volumes of Michael Steinberg’s wonderful program notes: “The Symphony,” “The Concerto,” and “Choral Masterworks.” Michael was a friend of mine, and a fine writer and thinker about music.
As for “free,” most program notes are copyrighted by the author or the commissioning organization, and can’t be republished without permission or licensing.
The face of evil. These truly are the end times.
Have you heard any of his cello playing, which he has posted on the internet. Way out of tune and no sense of phrasing. How can he teach theory when he can’t even tell he is playing out of tune.
Norman, maybe comment on it critically after you listen to the seminar? Your ad hominem attacks, whether it’s towards certain female musicians, certain country’s governments, or certain musicologists, are getting old. This is something one should learn to leave behind on the playgrounds. Is this how you would want to be remembered? Is this kind of cheap gossip the legacy you will leave behind? I will certainly remember you this way, at least while I still care to remember.
Reading his books will tell you the answer to your questions.
David,
I agree with you. Norman’s often very interesting blog is made less than serious by his petty sniping. He does this for clicks, which is understandable, but it certainly seems like he likes to stir up the get-a-lifers here.
Yes, Norman, we know you and yours are anti- woke, and everying the old days was so much better. Critics are not musicians we must remember.
This matters not. (Unless you give it exposure)
They should invite Donald Trump, High Priest of Post-Truth.
Biden is responsible for America’s epic downfall into victim-hood.
Ask the Taliban since Biden obeys them..
A brilliant discourse on how woke society won’t let Jews be Jews
The waning cultural power of Jewish-Americans, with Bret Stephens and Thane Rosenbaum
https://youtu.be/UNquSN-o4ZI
Thanks for linking this. I am only about a third of the way through the YT conversation, but I read the article in sapirjournal.org by Rosenbaum.
I realise both the video and the article are meant to be conversations directed to the Jewish community, but when he sticks to American culture, I think the article is unexceptionable, and reaches any of us who worry about the horrors of allowing this so-called “progressive” movement to continue unchallenged.
But both in the video and the article his seeming belief that it is somehow a failure by Jewish people and, therefore, by anyone else, to criticise anything Israel does, is to diminish his argument.
Obviously, I plead from outside this community and accept that the argument is not really directed at me. I recognise the danger Rosenbaum sees to the Jewish community in the craven acceptance of woke diktats. But I would like him to remember that he needs alliance with those of us outside it who share his view of the overall problem but who cannot necessarily be expected to accept his seeming view that Israel has never done, nor can ever do, anything unacceptable.
He preaches liberality. I hope he recognises that anyone who may disagree with elements of his understandable — and laudable — support of Israeli policies is not necessarily an enemy, let alone an anti-Semite, and that his liberality had better, if he wants his overall cause to succeed, include us.
That point aside, his article is highly recommended.
As you probably know I agree 100% with Rosenbaum and Stephens and am totally sympathetic to the concept of my people, right or wrong. I will forward your comments to Rosenbaum, since they are sincere.
“My people (or my country) right or wrong” is a concept that makes me a little nervous. I remember it being mentioned in Ken Burns’ brilliant series, The Vietnam War, as I recall by a vet who was faced with the protestors and counter-protestors of the late 60s and on, and his questioning of it.
And it is dangerously close to the dogma being laid down by these wokeist “progressives” (who are anything but).
Nobody is EVER right all the time. And no government is, for sure.
Deny thy father and refuse thy name….I don’t think so. At any rate these pages are not the place for this discourse, so you may contact me privately if you wish.
The lunacy continues…
If there is no truth in musicology, then why should anyone care about what they have to say, and why are they saying what they’re saying with such insistence and vehemence as though it were true?
Racists never get tired of activities!!
Anyone who claims that he knows the truth is a menace to society and in danger of totalitarian aspirations. But any academic who has given up the search for the truth and substituted some “post-truth” for it should go looking for a new job. Scientific inquiry is about the search for the truth or it is utterly useless.
The seminar prospectus makes it clear that the purpose it to find ways to counter ‘post-truth’, not to perpetuate it.
‘This site is dedicated to research on post-truth attitudes in the context of music, musicology and the humanities, as well as strategies against them.’
‘We seek to present heuristics for the “post-post-truth era”.’
SD’s continued attacks on the academic discipline of musicology are intellectually shoddy.
“Anyone who claims that he knows the truth is a menace to society and in danger of totalitarian aspirations.” Is that true, Hugo?
Beware Norman, these people may unite and “cancel” SD, hahaha.
This is not representative of musicology as a whole. Where this persistent defamation of musicology in this space heading?
Indeed, it’s merely a very marginal subculture of people without much substance in their subjects.
But they give musicology a bad name, like the nazi’s reflecting badly on Germans.
how do you separate Nazi’s and Germans?
Terror?
A lot of Germans hated the Nazis (BTW, both of you, learn how to make a simple English plural), but were very, very afraid of standing up to them — we know the sort of consequences any challenge to the Master Race engendered.
And many Germans risked a great deal to try to stop Hitler and his thugs. Take a look at the short life of Sophie Scholl for some information on just one group.
That sort of remark is unworthy, Helen. I can understand why anyone Jewish burns with bitterness against the Germans, but do take a look at what condemning all Germans with a remark like this actually does.
Read Goldhagen’s “Hitler’s Willing Executioners”. More Germans were Nazi’s than not. Exceptions…not many, and still not today.
I have read it. And I am aware that is is a highly disputed book. I still remember a pretty tough sledding for it on the very liberal McNeill-Lehrer Hour many years ago.
I won’t argue your point about percentages, but that still leaves a lot of people who worked, at huge risk, to help others. I assume you have heard of Dietrich Bonhoeffer. It seems to me that such resistance as there was, and I know it was not massive, was Christian. The fact that it was not massive made the resisters all the braver.
I would not presume to comment on attitudes today. In the first place, I am wary about “the sins of the fathers.” In the second, postwar Germany has had a pretty complex history, and sociology. But I am aware that anti-Semitism looms large in their litany of “anti-” feelings.
They are hardly the only ones. If the US does not watch out, it is going to be as rightwing and nastily disposed as Germany ever was, after only four years of the orange menace. His chants of “America First” reminded me of nothing more than “Deutschland Über Alles.” And neither very “Brüderlich mit Herz und Hand!”
I think when we start judging people based upon their ethnicity…well, you can imagine what I think. It doesn’t lead anywhere good.
Yes it is. Have you seen the AMS conference schedule for this year? It is overwhelmingly race, gender, politics, etc. Musicology is no longer about music. https://www.amsmusicology.org/page/Chicago
Sadly you are right about the next AMS conference.
Yet I am not prepared to generalize based on one conference.
I see overwhelmingly real scholarship in the titles of the the AMS list of new publications
https://www.amsmusicology.org/page/books
More importantly, I also see real scholarship in the Publications supported by AMS Publication Subventions
https://www.amsmusicology.org/page/books
The catalogs of publishers like Henle, Baerenreiter are full of new publications based on solid scholarship from Europe and the North America.
Yes, but for how long? The German left waited too late to fight Hitler. The same thing is happening here today.
The rise of totalitarian leaders is driven by more powerful economic and social forces than academic fads. The latter come and go. Gimmicks usually don’t have lasting success.
There have always been serious scholars and dedicated teachers. There will always be.
But they are as intimidated about speaking out as Jews (and other liberal-minded people) were in Germany, and apparently most of the Muslim community that claims to despise radicalism is today in the face of horrendous activities by extremists claiming to represent them.
Yes, the German situation arose from an economic crisis. But I think we may be in a new situation here, and the economic threat is TO dissenters, not from them. People are giving into this arrant nonsense because their jobs are on the line — many already lost.
If the ‘etc.’ includes pro-/anti-vaccination, the same goes for Slippedisc.
Fact check:
The AMS schedule is patently not overwhelmingly race, gender, politics etc.
To all concerned, please read the programs Day 1, Day 2 etc. for links to content like Josquin, the piano concertos of Julias Eastman etc.
Whatever. “The Empirical Strikes Back” – nice!
Firstly, don’t panic. This has no relevance to the real world. Your life will not be impacted in any way.
This is standard, self-serving bovine excrement that is necessary to keep these poor folk in ‘gainful’ employment. They have their little gatherings from time to time to justify their existence. Whatever they spout will be impenetrable garbage that only similar sufferers will be able to understand-or come to that, want to understand.
Their influence will extend no further than the rarified academic level where they thrive. The rest of us will be able to get on with our lives as per normal and listen to/perform all the wonderful pieces that musical history has given us safe in the knowledge that these ‘academics’ won’t be able to stop us.
Reminds me of why I got out of the musicology field in 1984!
As the gate-keepers to our own industry, we have no one to blame but ourselves. Who was it that gave these people their credentials, legitimacy, and academic standing to preach this idiocy? I hope you all enjoy the world you’ve created for yourselves.
But that is clear: it’s heading towards the cancellation of musicology. But that is unlikely to happen – more probable is that a new branche of musicology will be established: post-musicology, or conceptual musicology, as there is postmodernism and conceptual art. Both endeavors have nothing to say apart from interpretation unrelated to reality.
With all the in dialogue I don’t understand the hostility towards musicology’?
Who doesn’t have a political agenda? What would it mean to practice research in the humanities and NOT have views on politics broadly conceived – views which you believe your research can illuminate or actualise? Surely considering Beethoven or Abba or whatever else a worthy subject is in itself a political viewpoint, as it’s bound up with all kinds of value judgements?
As for “an academic discipline that has lost almost all relevance to music”, I’m guessing the author doesn’t believe musicologists still edit music, or bring forgotten works to light, or make us reconsider pieces and composers we think we know, or do public engagement via programme notes, radio and video?
Oh, Norman, as you sow, so shall you reap.
I bet many of the conferenciers, when they log off, clear the cookies and check their front doors are locked, secretly play Für Elise on the piano or the finale of the “Jupiter” symphony on CD at low volume. (The “aircraft-carrier-landing” of Bruckner 8 will need to wait until the neighbours – or the Dean of Faculty – have gone on vacation to Nantucket.)
I dare say it will be the usual woke bingo salad. However, going off at a slight tangent it has to be said that the likes of Ewell et al look like a bunch of complete amateurs compared to the trans rights mob. Ewell, for all the nonsense he spouts does write a recognisable version of the english language but he is in the kindergarten compared to the likes of Judith Butler for sheer “what the hell is that even supposed to mean?” quotient.
Wait, Beethoven’s supposed to be black now, if I’m not mistaken. So he’s in the clear right?
If they don’t let us play Beethoven the clearly black composer then THEY are the racist ones! Beethoven for all!!
Today’s NYTimes apologizes for an error re San Francisco Opera’s new bariatric chairs: they’re meant for really special people, up to 600 (not just 300) pounds!
I hear that a team of the Music Faculty at the Texas Institute for Technology has embarked upon a research project to find-out why so many theorists are fascinated by subjects that have nothing to do with music. One of the members will attend the online seminar disguised with sun glasses, wig and beard, to mingle unnoticed among the attendandees. As Dr Hofstadter, the leader of the team, explained on the phone: ‘After our disastrous Chinese project, we wanted to do something less difficult and this seemed perfecly suited to justify our budget. And the answers to our questions are so obvious that processing the material won’t get us into trouble.’
Later more.
he is still taking ?
very typical symptoms of societies in decadence and cultural decline. The US will go the way of other Empires. Eventually down. Let’s hope they don’t smash the world’s cultural crown jewels on their way out.
The irony is that in a truly post-truth paradigm, there would be nothing left to say and thus no colloquia to be held, since doing otherwise would still be clinging to some outdated notion of truth. These so-called academics truly want to have their cake and eat it too — dismantling the notion of truth all the while reaping the very concrete economic rewards that are inextricably bound with the entire paradigm they claim to reject. To call this the height of hypocrisy would be a mild understatement. As prospective students increasingly come to the realization that the main purpose of these vacuous exercises is to ensure a steady flow of capital for the university and essentially keep existing faculty gainfully employed, these exercises in sophistry masquerading as legitimate intellectual work may no longer be sustainable as students finally understand what a waste of their money, intellectual resources, and valuable time the pursuit of such disciplines entails.
They are attacking ‘post-truth’, not supporting it. Read the seminar prospectus before making vacuous and pompous comments.
Why are they in Music Departments and not Sociology Departments? They know and care NOTHING about music…..and then they all become administrators and destroy what real musicians are trying to do…..
A good read here:
https://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/view/document/obo-9780199756384/obo-9780199756384-0198.xml
And here:
https://sociomusicology.blogspot.com/2007/09/why-sociomusicology.html?m=1
One can already take a degree in Sociomusicology at the Sorbonne, among other universities.
The time is ripe for senior management at academic institutions to establish such a department, or appropriately to channel students into an existing one.
‘… they know and care nothing about music … then they all become administrators ‘ — utter balderdash. Look up the careers and publications of each of the seminar participants before making such ridiculous and offensive statements.