Four women accuse Dutch conductor of #Metoo conduct
mainThe Dutch broadcaster NOS is running a programme about Pieter Jan Leusink, conductor and owner of the Bach Choir and Orchestra of the Netherlands. He is accused by four women of sexual molestation. One said he told her she would ‘end up as a teacher’ if she resisted his advances.
Leusink denies the allegations.
Story here.
Stop looking at them, mate. It’s assault for snowflakes who are probably as fetching as Mr. Ed.
Hey, Sue. Just wanted to let you know that your comment is lacking any empathy thus making you a garbage excuse of a human being. The alleged victims have alleged that Leusink sexually molested them, which is far beyond looking at them. So nice straw man there, you dick. How about trying to actually refute what the alleged victims have actually said? Or is that too much for your weak mind? And that’s the bottom line because Stone Cold Sexual Assault Awareness Steve Austin said so!
My Sue filter is on the fritz again. Maybe one of those nice Indian Microsoft service agents will call to help out.
ROFLMAO!
Doesn’t everyone have a cell phone with a voice recorder in it now? Why aren’t people making audio of these things? Maybe it’s because they are not really happening?
Could you stop what you are doing for a minute so I can get out my phone and record this? Thanks!
People are doing it though. in most places you don’t need permission from the other party.
https://www.businessinsider.com/smartphones-spying-devices-2011-7
Ah yes, BusinessInsider, that’s quality journalism!
You miss the point – you have to already be recording when the behavior is happening. No evidence in most of these accusations that the victims knew the alleged behavior was imminent, so that they could plan ahead and be recording. If you are making an accusation that Prof. X says inappropriate things to me at my lessons, there one might have a better chance of capturing some evidence. The stories referenced here however do not describe repeated conduct (“each time I went to his hotel room for a private lesson, he tried to kiss me”), but rather incidents where, had it been reasonable to predict the behavior, the victim would not have gone in the first place.
Do I have to draw you a diagram? It’s pretty easy to hit the record button on a phone. Remember the story about the guy who found out his doctor said horrible things to him while he was under anesthesia for a colonoscopy?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/anesthesiologist-trashes-sedated-patient-jury-orders-her-to-pay-500000/2015/06/23/cae05c00-18f3-11e5-ab92-c75ae6ab94b5_story.html?noredirect=on
If he could do it then people can do it when they encounter harassers.
^ Karl — I tried it. Didn’t count the first attempt where I was trying to remember what the app is called and where it’s stored, and then having to click through the little pieces of information they think you need before letting you actually record something. Didn’t count that.
It is pretty easy, as you said. With my phone already awake and in my hand, it took 5 seconds from deciding to record to starting the recording. I’ve never been groped, but I imagine that a quick grab or kiss, followed by a quick “Hey! Stop that!” would take no more than that. If I had to get my phone out of my pocket and wake it up, that would add several more seconds.
As Bill said: if you are heading into a situation where the behavior in question seems likely, then it makes sense to have your phone already recording. If you are not expecting the behavior, then it seems to me that it could be over before you could start recording. (Again I have no experience of being groped, so I can’t really say for sure how long it typically takes.)
Also, from the link you provided (emphasis mine):
“Sitting in his surgical gown inside a large medical suite in Reston, Va., a Vienna man prepared for his colonoscopy by pressing record on his smartphone, to capture the instructions his doctor would give him after the procedure.”
The answer to your questions is in part what Bill said, but also because there’s a power imbalance between the alleged assailants and alleged victims. The alleged assailant was in many ways the boss of the alleged victims which makes it nearly impossible for the alleged victims to speak out because of fear of losing their job, and fear of slander from garbage human beings like you, Karl. Since there is no hard evidence yet of any of these incidents, any position other than “impartiality until evidence presents itself” is dumb. And for you, Karl, to immediately doubt these women and imply that they are liars reveals that you are a despicable human being in my book. AND THAT’S THE BOTTOM LINE BECAUSE STONE COLD SEXUAL ASSAULT AWARENESS STEVE AUSTIN SAID SO!
Insults are not arguments. When someone resorts to personal attacks it is proof that they have no argument.
Karl, try to think things through before coming up with a solution.
This METOO movement will ensure the inevitable female takeover of conducting.
Have you guys ever seen a real sexual harasser? I have. And they don’t just do it once. So a victim just has to prepare for the next time it happens. It’s not hard at all. If I don’t hear a recording I don’t believe the charge.
Karl, many of the harassment reports seen here on Slipped Disc have been during one-off encounters, not part of a regular relationship. The two young women who most recently added their names to the list of women making accusations against Bill Preucil, are an example. They had no reason to expect to need to make a crime scene video or audio recording – had they had any inkling of what they were about to encounter, I think it is reasonable to assume they would not have gone and simply avoided the unpleasant mess altogether.
I agree that if the behavior is recurring, it would bolster one’s case to actually record it, though I also have no doubt that some would then claim “it’s audio-only, why didn’t you get video, that could be your co-conspirator’s voice” or “that was edited” or some other excuse for disregarding it. People who haven’t been in the situation are always sure that they would do much better than the people who have been did, but talk is cheap.
Asking a woman out or making a pass at a woman isn’t harassment. That looks like what is happening here. Companies like google allow people to ask co-workers out one time only. If the answer is no then it is considered harassment to do it a second time.
I see what happened in one of these cases when Preucil asked a woman up to his hotel room. Most people know that means.
And our plan is to take over the world! It would mean, finally an end to war mongering and trump things! We would immediately stop everything that harms the planet including male conductors! The revolution has only begun. A couple of weeks ago I tried to take over the place here, I had read so many metoo’s, I got high on it, and I was behind my work quite much (couldn’t get through it), but it did not quite work-out because my salary was stopped and the cook didn’t agree so after some wrestling all parties decided to go back to normal. And I was told that the metoo thing was about harrassment not about not getting what you want. But is it? JB said he had been much harrassed by my behavior but what about all the work I’ve to do here? As if being a PA isn’t some form of harrassment.
Sally