Article rakes over NY Phil rape case that saw two principals reinstated
OrchestrasIn September 2018, the New York Philharmonic summarily sacked two players for sexual misconduct. The players were named as principal oboe Liang Wang, and associate principal trumpet Matthew Muckey (pictured).
At the instigation of the orchestra management, an independent, judge-led investigation was set up. The judge found that the dismissals were justified.
The union, however, called for arbitration. In April 2020, during Covid lockdown, the arbitrator found in favour of the sacked players, who were immediately reinstated. Orchestra officials did so, they told us at the time, through gritted teeth. In the circumstances, they had little choice.
The case has now been exhumed in graphic details in an article in Vulture.
UPDATE: Muckey’s star girlfriend
Unsurprisingly, the article was written by a freelance (non-music) journalist. None of the music journalists on the payroll of corporate media would touch this with a barge pole. They care about the preservation of their jobs first and foremost.
Sussman is a music journalist with a degree in music from the University of Michigan followed by graduate work in journalism at Columbia. He is notable for his courage and integrity. His work is highly regarded in the classical music field. From his website:
As a composer and playwright, Sammy’s music has been recognized by the American Composers Forum, the Foundation for Modern Music and the National Association for Music Education. A 2022 graduate of the University of Michigan’s School of Music, Theatre & Dance, Sammy was a two-time semester participant Blank Space Workshop creator for evening length musicals, one of which was written with Allie Taylor. Recent projects include Fifth Avenue, a straight play and political comedy and The Bachelor: The Musical, a very unofficial song cycle co-written and performed with Allie Taylor. Sammy is currently book writer for a musical that will premiere at Syracuse University in May; he also just finished a comedy show that premiered on Feb. 29, 2024.
Sammy is a member of IRE, ASCAP and DG.
All the more notable that a journalist with his credentials is a freelancer while an utter hack like Zachary Woolfe is the chief music critic at the New York Times.
This. Excellent point.
If you have ever worked with the AFM you know they’ll stop at nothing to keep their (gang) members from receiving just punishment for literally anything, no matter how egregious. Once you think you hit rock bottom the AFM keeps digging.
Wouldn’t want to be the NYP chief right now…
Anyone that knows the current state of the AFM understands that orchestras (which are actually non-profit), are where the dues come from to operate the locals.
There is NO WAY that a local will go against the Orchestra Committee for whatever reason because money in the form of work dues is front and center.
And then they’ll go around pontificating that they’re #UnionStrong.
Never depend on the AFM to do what’s right. Just what’s prudent for their self interests.
That’s not really the case. Locals will generally do what their legal counsel tells them they must, even when a bargaining unit is made unhappy by it. But of course locals are responsive to the desires of their members. It’s called “democracy.” Would you rather go back to the days of Petrillo?
I’m glad that’s been your experience. My experience, as a woman in an orchestra, is that the local goes along with whatever the orchestra committee says and the national backs the local.
There is no protection for a musician (especially a female musician) who has been harmed by another musician.
Indeed. What troubles me is that the two women were also members of Local 82; why isn’t the union advocating for THEM? Of course, by the time the arbitration came about they were probably members of other locals.
A very big problem at our Union. They always take the side of the perpetrator. ALWAYS.
You do know that unions exist to protect the interests of the people they are legally obligated to represent, right?
That’s correct. However, the experience of many women, the union offers protection, but only if no musicians are causing harm to another musician. Once there’s a musician on each side of any issue the harasser/assault perpetrator/rapist is protected by the union and the victim has no support.
another garbage feminist hit piece from Vulture.
Whatever.
Please don’t reproduce.
Too late. 2 kids, 3 grands.
Hope yours are all safe and healthy.
Poor human beings….
Pity
Are they all men?
Herr Bone, you may be correct. However, good luck convincing the rest of the elite classical music circle that.
Trumptard bull.
Because men should be able to rape women colleagues with impunity and keep their jobs?
You live up to your reputation,
Bone:
Finding a tampon pushed so far inside it’s difficult to get out. Finding out it has a colleague’s semen on it. Later finding date-r**e drug has been used.
That’s “Garbage, feminism…” is it?
Let’s hope this never happens to your “grands” or will you be as disbelieving as now?
This is the catch-22 of unions. While they rightfully make it difficult to fire people for capricious reasons, they also make it difficult to fire people for egregious behavior.
Orchestra management did a thorough investigation; the musicians in the orchestra thought the accused were scumbags; but the CBA essentially lets a third-party arbitrator decide if management should or shouldn’t be able to fire an employee, and this arbitrator simply dismissed the matter because it happened a while ago and in private.
“How dare a probationary, non-tenured member accuse a tenured member of anything…”
What a lovely group of people. Is a tenured member of the NY Philharmonic totally immune from anything? Do they think they’re POTUS?
Another reason NOT to support the NYP until they clean up their act. NDAs in a publicly-funded organization…really?? What else has been swept under the rug?
I hope the New York Times will re-visit this case.
An absolutely tragic article if true. Why would Muckey and Wang drug someone they have to work with everyday? And the hair follicle test suggesting it was GHB was done 8 months after the incident… certainly people have done evil things before but it seems like a tremendously stupid move. An independent arbiter ruled that there was not enough evidence to act, and this article is filled with hearsay, largely involving the now partner of Kizer. To me it reads like a he-said she-said story, and the arbitration reflects that.
Bill Cosby had to work with the same actresses too.
“hearsay”
This isn’t court litigation, it’s journalism. Do you need a videotape before you can form an opinion? Was the DNA evidence “hearsay”?
Stewart’s perspective is relevant because it’s not just about the rape, it’s about how a male-dominated culture silences women to protect their own. If you’ve got tenure, they let you do it.
It’s self-evident to point out that the only female brass players in the history of the NYPhil were denied tenure in connection to this incident. To imply that this isn’t a huge part of the story because they are now partnered reeks of misogyny.
What is missing in the story about Stewart is context. I have heard from first-hand observers that she was a participant in attempts to stage an incident that made it appear Muckey had violated a restraining order.
From multiple sources: Returning from an international tour, Muckey was standing in line to clear immigration/customs. According to what I have heard, Kizer approached him from behind, and Stewart snapped a quick picture of the two of them in close proximity to one another. The picture was used as justification to arrest Muckey for violating that restraining order.
Stewart was cautioned not to involve herself in this way, but not explicitly threatened that it would impact her tenure.
You can downvote all you want, but I am just the messenger. My point is there are at least two sides to every story, and when only one is reported, then you are being steered toward a conclusion that the author would like you to believe.
This tale sounds like a David Finlayson/Phil Meyers concoction to me. Perhaps if these are your sources , know they both are massive sexists privately. They like to masquerade as “progressives.” And Phil was fired, just fyi.
I don’t know about Finlayson – I have not witnessed that side of him. I will not argue what you’ve said about Myers – he is a difficult person that could make the workplace very uncomfortable. There are many negative things you could attribute to him, but I would not characterize him, or Baer, as liars. Being an asshole doesn’t mean you’re a liar. One of the things that made Phil unpleasant was his blunt, direct and confrontational manner. He is brutally honest whether you want to hear it or not.
You have to consider these reports, if for no other reason than to eliminate the possibility. It’s ok to ask questions. Skepticism is healthy, and if what Cara said is true, it should hold up to scrutiny. I am immediately suspicious of anyone that creates an atmosphere where that is discouraged, even punished. God forbid anyone suggest her story is not 100% true.
Mr. Myers was my teacher. Yes, he was always direct and very demanding in lessons but 100% of the time it was geared towards making me a better musician/horn player. He has very strong feelings about the music he plays which is derived from strict and detailed score study. I wouldn’t call him a difficult person at all. He was BEYOND kind, caring and supportive of a student who had no business studying with him at the time. Thank you Mr. Myers.
The DNA confirms they had sex, which is not disputed by either party. My opinion is that with the information given it is difficult to say with certainty that foul play occurred. If it did, they deserve to not just lose their jobs but be jailed as well. That being said, why was GHB not tested for in CO? It is one of the most common date rape drugs…
Do you think that these articles aren’t completely watertight in their fact-checking and cleared by their legal team before it even dares go to print? Do you think they’ve just thrown something together haphazardly and cast it out into the ether over a decade after it happened? Are you seriously that dense to dismiss this as just ‘hearsay’?
I guess we’ll find out. I don’t assume anything and neither should you.
Certainly one cannot dismiss this entirely as hearsay. This is a serious issue, and has been the subject of numerous lengthy investigations. It is a dangerous assumption that anything that gets printed is true simply because it passed this publications editing standards, and many things in the article are objectively hearsay.
Indeed. Libel is still a thing, and Wang and Muckey probably don’t count as public figures – despite renown in some circles – so they would have an easier time than an average politician or celebrity proving a case if the article ran provably false allegations about their alleged misdeeds.
Finally, the sordid details out, the complicity of the Philharmonic is revealed.
1) The arbitrator is legally wrong when he stated that “the refusal to take ‘no’ for an answer can be difficult to prove”, because it is not for the victim to prove she said “no”, all she has to show is that Muckey did not receive an “affirmative yes”, and the evidence showed she could not have given an affirmative yes because she was drugged.
That is the huge difference between this case, and the case in Texas where David Daniels and his husband Williams Walters drug raped a student, there the judge applied the correct standard when he warned the defense “Consent is consent, whether you’re straight or you’re gay” and the defense could not get consent from a drugged victim.
2) So Alan Gilbert sided with the tenure committee. Just saying.
3) The Philharmonic is rich enough to stand on principles, if Borda truly believed in women’s rights — rather than just window dressing by programming women composers and women conductors — she could’ve paid out their contracts for the rest of their lives and kicked their asses out of the orchestra.
Either way, the Philharmonic is paying them, so why not buy them out early to ensure a safe environment for women?
The trustees would rather shell out millions to endow a chair for Dudamel, then to use that money to protect the women in the orchestra and its reputation.
4) Yuja Wang, the other Wang, what are you going to do about it, as a woman? You are the Philharmonic’s artist in residence next season. You were Muckey’s girlfriend. You know the score. The way you are reacting to Makela, are you going to be just as aggressive towards the Philharmonic and your other ex-boyfriend?
5) And people wonder why Salonen, Abbado, Muti, all turned down the toxic Philharmonic.
“Yuja Wang … You were Muckey’s girlfriend. You know the score.”
Indeed she does, so it says a lot about her, as a person, as a professional, that she accepted the NYP artist-in-residence position knowing all that she knows.
Normally, it’s none of the artist-in-residence’s business if her orchestra is a moral cesspool, but because Yuja has make such a public rebuke of one ex-boyfriend (Makela), it becomes blatant that she has been so silent on the other ex-boyfriend (Muckey).
It’d be unlikely she’d play chamber music with an associate principal trumpet, but very likely with the principal oboe, her fellow Chinese Wang.
“but because Yuja has make (sic) such a public rebuke of one ex-boyfriend (Makela)”
How are we sure that she is canceling engagements with Makela and not a mutual decision to cancel? Or even decisions that are being led by him? And it’s a “public rebuke” only in the sense that they aren’t working together – it’s not as though they are insulting each other in the public sphere. It’s wild that it is naturally assumed that she is at fault.
Chet, you have a good point regarding the Daniels/Walters case in Houston. However, it is a mistake limiting discussion to just Unions and major orchestras. Other major musical institutions like to “circle the wagons” when their reputations (read: $$$$$) are threatened by the bad actions of their employees.
A very good example, from quite a while ago but is still relevant to the ongoing discussion, occurred in the late 90s at Houston’s Rice University. A prominent brass professor there was allegedly using his lesson sessions for the purposes of hypnotizing female students. The eventual revelation of his sexual affair with at least one student (was the sex consensual? Was she hypnotized?) resulted in one year of his “voluntary” leave from Rice.
The result of this was exoneration of this brass professor by the university and a slut-shaming of the poor student and anyone who defended her.
Here is a top-flight music school sweeping the kinks of a prominent “educator” under the rug. No Union, no arbitrator, this is all on Rice for protecting their reputation and $$$$$$$.
Comments, please?
If the NYT had a proper classical music department, this article would’ve appeared there. Instead, they spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to fly their critics to attend the most expensive summer festivals in Europe. They could be financing Pulitzer level journalism. They missed the Levine story, they missed this story. Priorities, priorities, Zachary Woolfe. One begins to wonder if it is deliberately turning a blind eye on the home teams.
Exactly. The NYT does some incredible investigative reporting on hard news, but malfeasance in the music world is deemed unworthy of a similar scrutiny. Woolfe and his buddies would rather jet around the world talking to opera directors and divas.
Of course, there used to be a day when New York had other papers that would report such stories too. Impressive that NY Mag was willing to do the hard work to get this published.
Would it? A music critic is not an investigative reporter. Different skill set. But someone should have investigated it.
Well that Vulture article is the most infuriating thing I’ve read in a while.
So, you don’t read much news?
That’s exactly how they want you to feel. Angry and full of hate.
Wow. That’s a lot worse than anything I had ever imagined about this case. The retrograde attitude of a lot of the musicians is just not acceptable. Brass players covering for their misbehaving male colleagues? White players openly disdaining the musicality of their Asian colleagues? Maybe the Philharmonic needs a DEI official?
They DO have a DEI officer, though!!
They probably didn’t in 2010.
This is horrible. These two knuckleheads should be tarred and featherred and run out of town subito, assuming the Vulture article is factual.
On a separate note, if I was married I would not go out alone with a single straight friend of the opposite gender (let alone his private residence), but that’s just me (nothing to do with religion, just being respectful to the spouse).
She didn’t go out “alone” with him or even to his place, she continued the hang with him and another colleague, and she was literally only there because her husband was running a few hours late. Do you have any idea what it’s like to be a young person in an orchestra? Normally you hang out with the other young people
Please don’t even hint at victim-blaming here.
If you are an untenured player in an orchestra, this is what your probationary period looks like: every note you play is under scrutiny. Besides the Music Director, your section colleagues are constantly evaluating your ability to match them in matters of volume, tone, intonation, and style.
You may get feedback about how you are doing. You may not. You may have been the choice of the Music Director and/or those surrounding you. You may not have been, and you just hope that your playing will convince them that you—the person who got the most votes at the audition—deserve to have the chair permanently.
These very individuals sitting around you will be playing a part in determining whether you are hired or fired.
If, during your probationary period, members of the orchestra—particularly members of your section—invite you to socialize, you do so. One’s musical proficiency is merely one consideration, albeit an important one, in these career -making or -breaking decisions.
Politics, quite obviously, can play a huge role.
There would have been no legitimate reason for the victim to think that a casual social gathering with her brass colleagues would result in criminal behavior.
Susan Spector
2nd Oboe
MET Orchestra
no victim-blaming at all, it’s completely not her fault, but i would have asked another, trusted colleague to come with me as a chaperone. Just saying, that’s all.
Hopefully no such creeps in the Met Orchestra, and thanks for your wonder principal flute Denis he’s doing good here in Los Angeles… so far.
Thanks for your response. But I also had intended to correct your original statement: this was a large gathering of players, not a date. Reread the piece.
To further clarify, going to a large gathering is one thing; going to someone’s private residence is another. In general I advise all women to find a chaperone for the latter or not go at all.
Think again Zandonai – pay attention to the fact that he and his wife are being investigated right now.
That sounds like a completely capricious and irrational system to me, but I really wouldn’t expect anything more from you people.
And we don´t expect anything more from people with such a ridiculous pseudonym.
Keep drinking the Kool Aid.
Thank you for this insight. It is fantastic to have a professional musician’s perspective here.
Thanks for your candor and for signing your name to this. You are absolutely right. If she refuses to hang out with her colleagues, she risked being regarded as a bad colleague herself.
Your last sentence may hit as close to the crux of this matter as any. At what point can she refuse her colleague’s invitations, requests or demands without risking being regarded as a bad colleague? Must she accede to demands of sex? If she doesn’t, she may be regarded as a bad colleague. If she complains, they will deny ever asking. If she goes along, coercion is still present. Claiming consent is an easy out.
We were all in dorms hanging out in college which was not long ago. Should she wear a burka once married? Since there were two male colleagues rape propabaly did not enter her mind.
Respectfully, that’s like telling a woman she was raped because her skirt was too short. Enough of that bs please.
Let me preface my remarks by saying I am in no way a friend of Muckey, and I have not ever met Wang. If what is stated in this article is true, then these two should be punished to the absolute full extent of the law. The allegations are deplorable. Having said this, we are clearly getting one side of the story.
The most troubling part of this article is the allegation of the use of a date-rape drug. Any evidence of that and it is an open and shut case regarding lack of consent. What I find curious is the statement that Colorado police tested Kizer’s blood but failed to include GHB in the ten-panel test. GHB is the #1 most used date rape drug. Why on earth would they exclude that, and why didn’t the journalist ask that question? Detecting it in a hair follicle months later does not determine a reliable timeline for exposure.
These are incredibly serious and damning accusations, and if one is going to publish something like this, then they need to be absolutely thorough and exercise reasonable skepticism. Again, if it’s true, f*%# these guys, but do your due diligence when fact-finding.
bill cosby
I’m glad this has been “exhumed” and investigated. People should know who their colleagues are. Uncomfortable as it may be to some, a miscarriage of justice should not remain buried.
That said, let’s HOPE that there were no other potential victims.
So, what happens next for the predators? Will there be no consequences even after their story is manifest? Now everybody knows everybody knows. Apparently, it’s only up to the public to express its intolerance of their unfitness? Can charges be revisited in Colorado’s Fifth Judicial District? That’s where the major failure in the justice system occurred that leaves us where we are now.
By now there might be a statute of limitations. But curious why the case wasn’t done where it happened.
20 year limit to bring charges for sexual assault in Colorado.
Statute of limitations for Colorado sexual assault is 20 years, so a case could still be brought.
Thanks for mentioning the gross negligence, and perhaps complicity, of Colorado law enforcement and criminal justice system. A DNA match, plus acknowledgement of common time and place, should be enough to go to trial, even years later. The complicity of the music director, Alan Gilbert, and personnel manager, Carl Schiebler, the tenure panel, and orchestra committee must be added to the actions of Local 802 and the arbitrator to complete this tragic, sordid, disgusting picture. Did all of these individuals truly believe a crime like this could remain hidden forever? We also know no details of any financial transactions, but it’s not difficult to surmise that there was likely more than just the NDA agreement. How do these people sleep at night?
The ending of that Vulture article is… something. As the kids say, wait for it.
It is a bit of a curveball and I don’t think it’s been made public before.
Don’t music directors have the power not to include players on the roster when they are on the podium? Don’t we hear stories of how Rattle or Welser-Most freezed out principals they didn’t like and basically forced them to retire or quit? Gilbert and Zweden can’t do that in NY, or they didn’t want to?
Almost certainly can’t do that. And for good reasons too.
Not principals “they didn’t like,” but solo winds and brass (and one percussionist I recall) who were not up-to-par for their tastes.
Which they were (and are, I suppose) at liberty to do. Why do you think their performances always sound better?
That’s why they get paid the bigger bucks. It’s their job.
The most important thing that I learned when I belonged to the Musicians Union, was that if you paid your dues on time, they protected you from them. If the NYP audiences care enought about this situation, they will not attend any concerts until it’s cleared up. How long would the management continue to put on concerts without a paying audience?
Maybe this is why it’s not a better orchestra.
So many problems with the article, which leaves more questions than it answers. Including, one might add, the six-figure settlement that Kizer walked away with. There’s a reason that democracies have a rigorous justice system (even though it can be misused and abused). Hearsay, questionable journalism, and the court of public opinion isn’t enough to convict–and it shouldn’t be.
What choice did Kizer have? She was getting no justice from either the criminal justice system nor, it appears, the Philharmonic. Then a negative tenure decision. Did she have to walk away without a financial settlement to maintain her credibility with you?
One thing about tenure committees is that it can often be quite divided on good players – personality and artistry can make some people quite uncomfortable, especially if they are trying to hide their own insecurities. On the other hand – when a candidate for tenure is clearly not suitable as a colleague, you’re gonna get that nearly unanimous “no” quite easily. Hope the settlement was enough to pay for their wedding.
Can we really be that surprised, though? This is the same population of garbage human beings that covered for James Levine for decades – you ALL knew about the abuse and did absolutely nothing about it. I even witnessed you all joking about it, so it’s not so shocking that you gutless hacks would take-up for another predator. You. People. Suck.
None of that is true, you shmuck.
Yeah, it’s true: I was in the room when Aspen Music Festival instructors joked that the Honolulu Boys Choir should be kept far away from Levine during his guest visit to the festival.
Same in Boston when he did Damnation of Faust
It is,believe me.
Honest question: Do you actually care about the victims or chasing after an Oscar?
It’s hard to see how they can remain with the orchestra after this. Every member of the orchestra – if they didn’t know about this before – is now going to feel complicit with two alleged rapists. And what about the gangsters – that’s what they are – in the brass section who retaliated when someone pursued justice against one of their own?
As as someone noted elsewhere, Liang Wang is due to play the Mozart Concerto in several weeks. While the Philharmonic was forced by the arbitrator to take him back, does that oblige them to feature him as a soloist? (maybe, his contract may call for periodic solo appearances and the arbitrator probably called for not just his reinstatement but the old terms of his contract). But after this article, how does this appearance go forward? I would imagine a postponement may be in the offing.
Could the Philharmonic have said “OK, the arbitrator says they get their jobs back, so we’ll pay their salaries but they’ll never play with or be around the orchestra again?” It would have cost them millions, but probably less than the reputational harm they’re likely to suffer now.
It’s not hard at all to see how they remain with the orchestra, since there’s scarcely anything in this story that wasn’t reported when the NYPhil tried to fire Muckey and Wang, or when the arbitrator reinstated them.
All of that came from Deborah Borda trying to reopen a disciplinary matter in order to bolster her girlboss, “me too” bona fides at a time when that was cool, and that all blew up in her face. Spoiler: arbitrators tend not to like new bosses coming in and taking extra kicks at the disciplinary can for matters that occurred years earlier.
The only thing this was “hiding” from is the reporter’s awareness – he’s in his mid-20’s now and was likely in a sophomore-year theory class the last time this story made the rounds.
Muckey and Wang are unsavory characters with tenure in contracted roles. No union in its right mind would allow the employer the opportunity to establish a practice of unilaterally reassigning orchestra members to other duties, or leaving them off the stage altogether. It’s the same reason the union subsequently fought in bargaining against management’s efforts to reduce the burden of proof in disciplinary matters.
Could the employer try to negotiate a buyout? Sure, but as you note and I’ll concur – that’s expensive. What donor(s) wants to spend $15M (or more) to get a pair of sex pests off the stage? That’s likely the number we’re talking about, since both have 20-30 years left in front of them professionally, they’re likely not employable in other orchestra settings, and they’re not working for cheap. Eyeballing their 990s, the NYPhil is probably paying a million a year for the two of them.
And it would be a bad investment because in the end, 99.9% of the world isn’t reading this story, just like they didn’t read it all the other times it’s been written. That’s the thing here. There’s no real reputational harm to the NYPhil because nobody other than a bunch of Too Online folks are reading this story.
Sometimes reality sucks, but this is the reality of it. They’ll keep working because the union won’t have it any other way, and they’re too expensive to buy out.
You make a lot of good points about the challenge of getting these guys out. But the actual facts of the case have not been previously known to the general public.
But the other problem is: where was the union for the two women? They had jobs the union should have protected, too. Granted, by the time Wang and Muckey were fired, they had both left, so not members of the local.
But you can’t have a work culture where people who are on probation are at the mercy of predators like this for tenure. Tenure may supposedly be denied for any reason, but non-consensual sex with a member of the tenure committee is not one of the conditions that should have to be met.
They wouldn’t be able to play concerts if they’re in jail in Colorado. If the statements in the article are true, there’s some likelihood of a conviction. The inaction of law enforcement in this case is astounding. Imagining the possibility of a payoff is impossible to avoid, in a case like this.
“Anon” on here gets it right. The culture desk at The NY Times should have been running with this over the past decade, but they exist as the slobbering, DE FACTO PR arm of the NYPhil & Carnegie Hall. But, hey, this now gives Dudamel cover to change his mind and stay maybe stay in LA…!
Coverage, absolutely. But this is not “cultural” news, but rather criminal news. A cultural journalist is not equipped to adequately gather and interpret the findings in this case.
In either case, the NYT dropped the ball.
What crime was committed? Was either player charged by a court of law?
If the union hadn’t taken the terminations to arbitration, both musicians could have filed a lawsuit – technically a “hybrid Section 301” suit – in Federal court. They very like would have gotten back their jobs as well as at least few hundred thousand dollars in back pay from both he union and the orchestra.
How do we know she didn’t just get super drunk after telling her husband she was going out with colleagues and her phone was going to die? Then needed to deflect responsibility the next morning (to her husband or perhaps her own conscience) and find an excuse for a mistake they made? Why wait so long to get the unreliable hair test, if you would research other methods 6 months later? Is the divorce later and relationship with the other woman in the article and irrelevant fact to consider?
Oh dear ‘Questions’.
I can’t quite believe that you think said she has made these serious claims about colleagues to the police, her employer and to essentially lose a job, all because she needed to “deflect responsibility”.
You are part of the problem.
Agreed. Her story doesn’t add up and her insistence that the tampon is the key element seems silly.
Don’t bother us with rationality. We’re millennials out for justice!
Bone: I feel sorry for the women and girls in your life, of this is your take from this.
I bet there aren´t any…
Questions:
You are very clever for coming with that alternative scenario. Wow. It’s like watching an episode of Columbo. But how do we know that aliens didn’t abduct her? The charming guys, all tucked up innocently in their beds with no knowledge that she was taken to the alien Mothership? She obviously wasnt r**ped by one of the guys after being given a well known and difficult to trace drug, but in fact experimented on and probed (the only logical reason for the tampon). Her mind was obviously wiped and she was then returned to earth. Waking in the morning, covered NOT as suspected, in her own red wine vomit, after being drugged (as some crazy, female millennials have suggested) but in red alien sweat. The aliens, not finished with their explorations, then realised they have never used an Earthly washing machine, so they stripped her naked and washed her clothes, oh and some of the guy’s clothes.
In a spectacular twist, the aliens, a number of years after, planted into the minds of some NYP players, memories of the guy’s doing creepy s**t with other women in the orchestra. The aliens then made the NYP fire the players in 2018.
PS. You are a rape apologist.
Your questions make people nervous.
The whole thing seems flaky, I agree.
Chops or no chops, any orchestra that even considers booting this associate up to a principal chair should have its head examined. Hopefully, he’ll never crack through the shmuck ceiling, although there’s always CIM.
Insiders, particularly women brass players know that this is a true story. For months and months, no one could find out from the press what the charges were, most likely due to protection from the union. Of course, a solo oboe is a rare commodity, so it would be understandable from the orchestra management’s point of view not want to have the charges hold up. A similar case also involving a trumpet player in the Bavarian Radio Orchester resulted in him being reinstated, but it most likely was consensual and the woman involved was in the orchestra academy. If anyone is sincerely interested in the power dynamic involved, I recommend “Know my name”, another true date rape case by Chanel Miller. In this instance, the Ohio student, who was on a swimming scholarship to Standford was convicted and now works in a factory.
It’s anybody’s guess as to why now the details are re-emerging and why the major press never picked up the story.
This could relate to the statute of limitations and/or NDAs. The SOL part would be interesting to examine given that there was an extension that resulted in numerous filings over the last year that normally would not have been allowed. Re the news coverage, I remember reading about this in 2018, and was baffled by the silence that followed. Obviously neither the AFM or NYP wanted any details out there, and presumably took steps to ensure that never happened. This does not fully explain the silence of the NYP musicians, although rocking the boat at that point (or even now) could obviously result in dire consequences for any musician speaking up even anonymously.
If this is a pseudonym you picked an odd one for this story.
Are you people sure that Dudamel is going to be the next music director of the NY Phil? Given the circumstances, the world-renown conductor Sum Ting Wong might be more fitting for the orchestra.
Does anyone know why the Vail Police Department did NOT pursue any further investigation? The crime occurred in their jurisdiction, and they collected the evidence.
Ironic that this is the same county where the Kobe Bryant rape of the hotel worker occurred that was swept under the rug.
The DA dropped the prosecution against Kobe at the last minute. You know why?
It’s because the young girl had been caught boasting later on that day at a party about how she’d bedded him. Absolutely true — there were a number of witnesses that came forward.
My mistake. It was the DA’s office that didn’t pursue charges, after doing so was recommended by the Vail Police Dept. The evidence still exists. Perhaps this article will motivate the DA to re-open an investigation.
There’s no statute of limitations in Colorado for Felony Sexual Assault. Hopefully all this attention will get Vail PD to re-open her case.