25 years of the Berlin Homophilharmonic
OrchestrasThe Tagespiegel has a fascinating feature on Berlin’s gay orchestra, the Concentus alius, which also calls itself Das Homophilharmonisches Orchester Berlin.
The LGBT orchestra, made up mostly of amateur musicians, ias markling its quarter-century with an ambitious performance of Mahler’s second symphony on Tuesday involving 12 amateur choirs (not all of them gay). The conductor is Christiane Silber, a violist in the Berlin radio symphony orchestra. The concert is completely sold out.
Concentus alius is self-avowedly modelled on the London Gay Symphony Orchestra which fllourished in the 1990s.
Read more here.
Photo: Frank Rönisch/CA
If it’s a gay orchestra, then it’s not an “LGBT orchestra”: “gay” and “LGBT” not interchangeable.
It’s a translation from German “homo” in their orchestra name. Yes, we use LGBTQ often nowadays but the term “gay” is also still used as an all-encompassing term.
If “gay” is used as an all-encompassing term (encompassing WHAT, exactly?), then it is being used incorrectly.
no, it’s not. Gay is blanket term often used to refer to those whom are not heterosexual.
If it is a blanket term for those who are not heterosexual, it seems to extend only to those who are, indeed, same-sex attracted. That hardly makes it a blanket term, whereas “LGBTQIA+” seems to those who who conceive themselves to belong to the other sex,, those who have organs of more than one sex, those who experience no sexual attraction, etc, etc, etc, depending how far that “+” extends.
Come again? Are you the grammar god? I did not know that someone on earth dictated the use of words! The reality is that this is how its used and no matter how much you cry about it, it’s not going to disappear, and neither will people continue using it admitting that it’s “incorrect”. The only incorrect person here is you who cannot accept reality.
For the record, it is all-encompassing of those who are not strictly heterosexual. There, that wasn’t so logically complicated was it? 😀
Then it’s not “all-encompassing”. It simply extends to those attyracted to members of their own sex. Which is the correct use.
Oh, and by the way, I said nothing about *grammar*. Grammar is not the same as spelling, syntax, punctuation, or meaning.
Everybody knows what it means, so don’t get your knickers in a twist.
Yes. Attracted to people of the same sex. Which is what i said it meant.
It seems to be no longer exclusively either gay or LGBT.
From their website “today everyone who is willing to play under the title »Homophilharmonic Orchestra Berlin« or to work in the background is welcome in the concentus alius.”
So if any homophobes would actually be willing, they would be welcome.
And what venue more appropriate than a church…surprise, surprise.
Matthew 21:13 “It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer.”
The International Orchestra of Cultural Marxists prevails in the world of Liberal Arts.
You are not a victim, grow up.
When I was a boy, “gay” meant something good.
Now it means something better!
(That joke is at least 50 years old.)
I’d never attend this, out of principle. Imagine for a moment how ridiculous and offensive it would sound if some outfit named themselves “Das Heterophilharmonisches Orchester.” No thanks either way.
Have you considered you might not be the intended audience? Not everything is for you, you know.
Surely the intended audience is those who would like to hear Mahler 2. What else should matter?
Well yes, if you want to hear Mahler 2 you’re welcome to attend a concert. If you object to the very existence of the orchestra, move along, it’s not for you.
Easy.
It’s a terrible orchestra anyway. Amateurs should not desecrate Mahler.
Mahler once said “There are no bad orchestras, only bad conductors”. Why shouldn’t amateurs get to experience the thrill of playing Mahler?
They can do a private readthrough — no audience necessary.
You’re in no position to decide what is “necessary” or not. That is what those involved decide themselves. If people are happy to play, and if people are happy to come see them, then that is what matters. By your reasoning, I would wonder if your exi stence wouldn’t also be necessary in the grand scheme of things? I wonder what kind of argument you can make that does not appeal to the participants of your own life?
But it’s okay for professionals to desecrate Mahler? As so many of them do?
@RW2013: The most severe desecration one can do to Mahler’s music is to declare it to be solely for the professionals. I have heard student orchestras put professional orchestras to shame. Get off your high horse, and more importantly, your prejudice. Music is for everyone. And yes, that includes bigots.
… and I’ve heard provincial orchestras mangle the h*ll out of Mahler, too.
And elitist philistines like you should not desecrate Mahler by even mentioning his name, let alone listen to his music.
Completely agree. I am for meritocracy everywhere, including music. If you can play, I do not ask your sexual orientation, and you do not tell me.
This is not a competition. It’s a friendly safe environment for like-minded people to come together to have fun. If you don’t want to be part of it, no one is forcing you. Just go live your best life, and do us all a favor and do not spread your ignorance and bigotry online or otherwise. Again, just go live your life far far far away from us. We promise we won’t ask how you’re doing or what your sexual orientation is either.
Afraid you may meet someone you fancy?
Did you not read the part that not everybody is gay? It’s just a question of solidarity and having fun together in a safe environment, because, oh I don’t know, LGBT people are still being discriminated against, persecuted and murdered in many countries just for being LGBT? If you cannot support this idea “out of principle”, then you are most likely part of the ones discriminating against them. You are free to not attend the concert. No one is forcing you to or even encouraging you to. In return, please just stop spewing ignorant discriminatory words and stay silent. That really would do us all a big favor, thanks.
Wonder if they would do a tour of Gaza and West Bank in support of Palestine? I bet they’d be warmly received.
… and while you’re in the neighborhood, tack on an extra leg of concerts in Syria and Iran …
And I wonder if they would do a tour in the Arctic for the Inuits…? What? No relevance whatsoever to the validity of their existence…Please focus and stay on topic! I can only imagine the grades you got in school 🙂
I don’t suppose people get very good grades for tacking gratuitous insults on to their comments.
“LGBT people” Many who are gay want to be known simply as gay, just as, I imagine, single parents and sex workers would not wish to be treated as part of an artificial conglkomerate, “SPSW people”.
With all due respect, and understanding of people who want to organise themselves in groups, on whatever basis (religion, volleyball, Mongolian throat singing), but setting-up an orchestra – even if only of amateurs – around sexual orientation is as nonsensical as creating an orchestra on the basis of vegetarism or hair cut styles.
Like gay parades, these grotesque initiatives are reactions to a society drowning in ignorance and bigottry. Also they seem to reinforce prejudices by the ignorami instead of clearing them up.
Is it ok to ask why you appear to be so concerned about this if it’s “nonsensical”? It isn’t something which affects you in any way.
It’s also interesting that you equate sexuality with diet choices and hairstyles, which is rather odd.
Hey look, white European males had all sorts of exclusive clubs and organizations for centuries and you don’t seem to have any problem with that.
I was always gravely offended when I passed the gents clubs at Pall Mall. Not that I wanted to join, but the whole idea of excluding women I found deeply hurtful.
Sally
Such as?
As far as I have understood, socker teams are made-up exclusively of men, and if so, they are strictly discriminatory. Most armies are also discriminatory, but that may change in the future when technology offers a more diverse distribution of violence. And what about the Italian female mandoline ensembles?
Let me guess: the Köln Karneval and other idiotic medieval/pagan practices are not grotesque, they are “tradition”, right? Getting passed out drunk dressed like a slave using blackface is…..high culture ? Enlightenment?
People used to be more discrete about their biases but given the polls for AFD and other neo nazi organizations around europe….
John Borstlap, you mean like the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra until recently?
Yes. They organised themselves like the London gentlemen’s clubs, and that was considered gravely unethical. They were not free to organise themselves to their liking, it got a symbolic meaning, so different from the London clubs.
That’s some top notch pretentious drivel…
You say! I always much enjoyed these parades and would travel miles to feast my eyes on the dancing men. Something I miss terribly in my job.
Sally
You said it yourself, people come together for all different reasons. There is nothing inherently “nonsensical” about LGBT people forming their own orchestra. It’s simply to offer a safe place for LGBTQ people to come together and have fun. Representation and visibility are always important for discriminated minorities who may otherwise feel completely isolated and helpless. They are not doing anything “gay”, they are playing music as a human being. If you can’t simply see this, then you’re the one reinforcing ignorance and bigotry. It’s never too late to grow as a person, whatever your age, John.
Well-meant advice, but you miss my point entirely. If nature’s variety was given the attention, in social contexts, it deserves, there would never be any need to create group think demonstrations. The whole discussion has been sexualized, putting people in boxes and in groups, while it is about normal bonds of love between people, and nothing more. I really think that only education and information can help against discrimination, not exaggerated group think demonstrations.
But the point is that there is a long history of mankind denying some of the diverse groups in ‘nature’s variety’ their equal rights. Of course education and information are the best answer, but protests and demonstrations may be what wakes up educators and information providers to the need to do something to change attitudes.
If you had seen the pictures of, for instance, Amsterdam parades which are a sorry caricature and an apotheosis of vulgarity, you would think very differently about the subject.
I guess you mean well then, and your idealistic vision is shared by many. However, you entirely miss my first point, which is that this is about creating a safe community. It is naturally harder to meet a fellow LGBT person in real life. Sometimes people just want to meet others with whom you share certain interests and characteristics, and having a community like this that centers around being both gay and classical music can be a great way for people to meet up. You are also basically guaranteed that you will not have to put up with a homophobic conductor or stand partner, or go through the mentally taxing process of sussing out who would be ok and who wouldn’t, etc.
I also mentioned that your vision is idealistic and not necessarily grounded in reality. The gay rights movement have advanced remarkably in the last few decades, almost more than any other movements. This is not simply because people were “educated”, but because of protests and civil rights movements where sometimes blood was shed. The same is being said now regarding climate change; protests and extreme events do make a positive impact, if not only through radical flank effect at times.
The important thing to consider is that you’re (most likely) not LGBT, and you do not experience the immediate threat and suffering that these people do still experience. If THEY say that they want a safe place to meet and play together, then YOU should simply respect that. It has nothing to do with you, and even if they end up ruining their own cause as you claim, who cares? Let them! Just let them lead their own lives for once, just like you’re doing!
Could you make up your mind whether you are talking about gay people or about the indefinite conglomerate, LGBT+ people? You swing back and forth between the terms as though they were interchangeable; which they aren’t.
I’m not throwing them in front of a bus, I merely object to presentation forms. But that also goes for climate parades etc., and the amazing phenomenon of people’s heartfelt public support for islamic terrorists and the total lack of protests against invading terrorist states, etc. etc. It’s not ‘idealism’ but realism, in my opinion.
Just as I was starting to kind of get your humor and see your point on a number of things, you come up with this. Back to square one I guess.
I think you’ll find that it should be ignoramuses. Ignorami is a verb not a noun.
Oh! I will change that in my list.
Correct. Strictly speaking, ignoramus is a form of the Latin verb ignoro, but it has been adopted into English as a noun. If ignoramus were a Latin noun (which it isn’t), ignorami would be the plural. Since it is an English noun, ignoramuses is correct, and ignorami results from people trying to show they are educated when they are not.
What have you done?? He has locked himself up in the library feverishly searching in big tomes & I’m sitting here aimless.
Sally
I found that both ignorami and ignoramuses are correct plurals:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ignoramus
Now ask Sally to look up ‘hypercorrection’ for you.
I’m not sure what hyper correction means but I know very well what it means to be hyper corrected.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/hypercorrection
“Yes, but besides all that, Mrs. Lincoln… how did they play?”
I read that she found it a rather dull evening with lame acting, and some lapses in the text.
Meh, much ado about nothing. Just another amateur orchestra using LGBTQ to market and sell their brand. I definitely would not want to hear them do any Mahler. Early Haydn, Mozart maybe. Hey as long as they are having fun in their little safe bubble that’s all that matters.
You may not want to hear them play Mahler, but as an amateur player myself I assure they WANT to play Mahler! There are many amateurs who always get cut out with Haydn and Mozart. The people playing English Horn, Contrabassoon, trombone, tuba, percussion and all the other assorted things want to play!
The people downvoting you must be the most bitter classical music “lover” (they’re not) who could never play anything themselves for lack of talent/opportunity/effort. They don’t want anyone else to experience the joy of playing Mahler 😀 They really all do need to go therapy
Ah, the “You need therapy” move and the “You are so, so bitterr” move wheedled on in harness. Glad to see you using such powerful and inestimably valid debating points.
We should always encourage amateurs to play classical music:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5umEUBDXfU0
I’m trying to figure out why a group of people of like minds getting together to play music is so upsetting to so many of you. If you are not of the same mind or the music doesn’t interest you then pass-on.
The London Gay Symphony Orchestra continues to perform several concerts a year, you know, at their home venue, St Giles Cripplegate, adjacent to The Barbican.
Ole Norm knows how to make them headlines pop.
Great orchestra, great conductor. It is inspiring also our Rainbow Sound Orchestra Munich. And let them play Mahler. They and their friends will be more audience for romantic music as Mahler. I wish good luck. Bring involved as musician is the most important. And LGBT amateurs are really open minded and inspiring. So we play in Munich from Monteverdi to Gloria Coates.
Yes, and it seems that many people have missed the part that says the concert is entirely sold out. They are clearly doing well for themselves, and some people don’t like that.
Such organizations as Gay choruses, gay orchestras, gay soccer teams, Gay teachers organizations, Gay parades, Gay churches, etc – they all serve an important purpose: To remind society that WE EXIST, and we contribute positively to society just as everybody else does – as parents, teachers, musicians, artists, actors, shop-keepers, police, fire fighters, etc. These organizations serve as role models to assure gay teenagers that there are places in the world for them – that they are welcome and necessary members of Society. They give hope to confused youth who are battling depression and contemplating suicide. These valuable kids need somewhere to turn to – and these organizations provide that.
… which simply shows an immense gap in the general educational trajectories.