A plan to cut half of Germany’s radio orchestras
NewsThe Bavarian Prime Minister Markus Söder has told his CSU party that Germany’s radio orchestras should be reduced from 24 to twelve. ‘The quality of the culture will be just as strong,’ he told his parliamentary group meeting in closed session in Banz Monastery near Bad Staffelstein.
Soder ( (r. in pic) also called for the abolition or merger of up to 20 public radio ad television stations in order to keep costs down.
More here.
“The Bavarian Prime Minister Markus Söder has told his CSU party that Germany’s radio orchestras should be reduced from 24 to twelve”
That’s how CDU/CSU wants to preserve German culture. 😀
BTW, not sure where he gets his numbers (too much beer, maybe?), but:
BR: 2
DLR: 1
RBB: 2
HR: 1
MDR: 1
NDR: 2
SR: 1
SWR: 1
WDR: 2
===========
Total: 13
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_radio_orchestras
“abolition or merger of up to 20 public radio a[n]d television stations”
I’d be fine with that, we do have A LOT. They are financed via television/radio licenses. It’s their job to inform, not to entertain.
I guess he included the 3 Bigbands (SWR, HR, WDR) and the choirs and meant therefore “ensembles” instead of “orchestras”.
Could be, thank you.
So the CSU wants to slash over a thousand positions for orchestra musicians because of a 58 cent a month increase in the public radio fees. For those who might not know, the CSU is a far-right and all too often racist party that has ruled Bavaria for all but three years since the founding of the Federal Republic of Germany in 1949.
For those who might not know, the CSU is part of the “Union” CDU/CSU and is center right. It is the AfD that is far right and racist. See news on demonstrations in Germany today.
Some people see ‘far right’ in every political party one degree to the east of Trotskyism.
Those who might not know don’t need you feeding them misinformation. The CSU is the CDU’s sister party in Bavaria. It’s a bit more socially conservative than the CDU, but it’s still a party of the centre-right. Unless of course you’re a communist and think the Left Party is a party of the centre.
Quite. Mr Osborn seems to have little idea. Perhaps he never lived in Germany. He is probably not yet aware of another new party, the “Werteunion”, founded over the weekend by Hans-Georg Maaßen. He is the former Head of the “Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz” (German Domestic Intelligence Service) and was ultimately forced out of office for his radical hard right and unconstitutional views. An amazing story. The “Wertunion” (Union of Values) is also dangerous, and not of course to be confused with the “CDU/CSU Union”. It will likely not cause a drift from AfD voters, but attract those who would vote CDU/CSU but now lean much further right of centre.
We see here the usual rationalizations in this forum where a far-right party is defined as “main stream.” The examples of racist and reactionary commentary by CSU politicians are numerous. A former Minister President of Bavaria (analogous to a governor in the US,) Edumund Stoiber, for example, spoke about the dangers of a “durchrasste Gesellschaft” (mongrelized society.) This sort of polemic by CSU politicians is normative. When the EU was being expanded, the CSU polemic about guarding Germany’s borders was very similar to what we now hear from Trumpistas. The CSU wanted a wall of police patrolling the country’s borders and coined the term Schleirnetz (veil net) to describe the sort of tightly woven net they wanted around the country.
The most influential CSU politician, Franz Joseph Strauss, coined the party slogan, “So far right as the law allows” — a way of dog whistling that they would embrace fascist measures if they weren’t prevented from doing so. He also advocated that no party should ever be allowed to form to the right of the CSU because it would put these fascist impulses out into the open and the CSU would lose power. The CSU is thus in a bit a of panic mode because the AfD has found a modernized, colorful style that is allowing them to create a more popular form of veiled, dog-whistled fascist ideals than the CSU.
I’m sad to say that it says a good deal about Slippedisc that it appears to have become monopolized as a forum for reactionary thoughts like CSU sympathizers–to say nothing of the AfD, Swiss Folk’s Party, and the Freedom Party of Austria along with a legion of Trumpistas and Brexiteers. Even many Germans opposed to the CSU mindset feel disgusted by this.
After having lived in Munich for 13 years, just about nothing Trump says or does much phases me. I’ve seen it all before in Bavaria years ago.
So what about the former SPD Justice Minister? Herta Däubler-Gmelin (SPD) once said (in 2002) that the strategy of President Bush was to “divert attention from his inner-political problems, just what Hitler did”.
Racism in Germany is a widespread problem and shows up also in the SPD. Thilo Sarrazin, for example, wrote a book entitled “Germany Abolishes Itself,” a xenophobic screed that became a bestseller in which he even claims foreigners are lowering the IQ in Germany. Books like that from members of the left might give readers here an idea of the attitudes on the right where it’s even worse, and why parties like the CSU are far-right and often racist.
Yes, all of this is disgusting.
Therefore we should be hopeful that also some woke has emerged in Bavaria: the Bayerische Bauernverein has announced a protest demonstration with rural equipment on 3 February in Munich, because a concert has been planned on that day by the Münchner Philharmoniker with a program including Beethoven’s Pastorale. “We find that in that piece the farmer community is depicted in a patronizing way,” the Chairman, Herr Unterschwelle said; “We shall not hesitate to use the means at our disposal if necessary”. (Source: Der Stürmische Beobachter 20/1/24)
Another example, from NPR, and specifically about Markus Söder:
“Markus Söder, the state governor of Bavaria and leader of the CSU who just backed out of the race to succeed Merkel as chancellor, attended a carnival event in 2015 dressed as Mahatma Gandhi in brownface.
“Similar incidents in countries such as the United States and Canada are considered offensive and spark public outcries. But Ataman said the fact that Söder’s appearance in brownface was barely raised during his candidacy is symbolic of a wider lack of anti-racist awareness within German politics and society.”
Many other examples in the NPR article:
https://www.npr.org/2021/04/21/988816485/germany-grapples-with-racism-after-threats-derail-refugees-candidacy-for-parliam
Some examples of the constant stream of racist comments by CSU politicians:
https://taz.de/Rassistische-Aeusserungen-in-der-CSU/!5357145/
But then, we need to remember the many SD readers consider Donald Trump Republicans a “mainstream” party as well.
Nicht gut.
Finally the millions of immigrants and green shift is beginning to pay!
“BBC loves this”
It’s not a plan, it’s a proposal. That makes quite a difference.
And so it begins…
I mean, how many are truly great?
So just because an orchestra doesn’t rank at the absolute top level, that means it doesn’t deserve to exist?
While some are the main (read: best) orchestra in their given city, the other smaller radio orchestras fulfill other roles that the main symphony orchestra is often hesitant to do (read: popular music, contemporary music, more recording etc.).
Yes, by all means, cut all the 2nd and 3rd tier ensembles, but expect the ones at the top to be just as good. It doesn’t work that way. You can’t excavate away the broad base of a mountain and expect the pinnacle to remain in place.
You don’t have a point as it doesn’t matter. Even the smaller one serve the purpose of bringing classical music to areas where they cannot see the Berlin PO every day but get some professional music playing. And some of them are outstanding. NDR and BR come to mind. The Cologne one as well. You’d be surprised.
It’s self-evident that if someone running a country proposes cutting half the orchestras, the purpose of those orchestras is open to question.
Orchestras do no have a divine right to exist – if the demand is not there and the economic climate is brutal enough, the reality is that the purpose and funding will be scrutinised. This seems to be something unbelievable to many here but it’s the same rules out there for everyone.
All are excellent, but only a handful of world orchestras are truly great. What’s your point?
You don’t understand how culture works. Reflect about the shape of a pyramid for a while…
Lovely. Now even the Germans would like to emulate the tightfisted Dutch who obliterated the last vestige of what in times past passed for culture by saving pennies by slashing orchestra after orchestra.
‘In matters of commerce ’tis said of the Dutch,
That they give too little and expect too much’.
Quote from my Dutch uncle.
That saying is entirely true.
Try being a musician in the U.K.!!
Even worse, try being one in the USA.
The suggestions of Söder are pure populist posturing by a local politician who has given up hope to ever become chancellor in Berlin. These plans are not gonna happen. Besides, you can be sure that he doesn’t mean the Bavarian orchestra, but only everyone else. Populist nonsense and electioneering.
Exactly.
Add the radio big bands, add the radio choirs, and you’ll get close to 24. (No, that doesn’t make it better.)
The problem is: tough times are coming. Cuts must be made. We all have to think how we can cut. Personally, I’d look at Mr. Dorny and the Munich opera. That new Fledermaus was an unnecessary extravagance.
Philistinism is not an exclusively British phenomenon. Remember, you can only sell the family silver once.
I’ve often wondered why a country the size of Germany needs so many radio orchestras. It’s smaller than the state of Montana which can be easily covered with three FM stations. Add to that the immense library of recorded music. Do these live orchestras provide something missing? Do they do a lot of new or obscure repertoire? The US had a go with privately funded orchestras but it didn’t last long; it was incredibly expensive to operate them. Maybe economic reality has caught up with a decline in interest among the German population?
I have a CD of pianist Walter Gieseking playing Beethoven’s Emperor Piano Concerto (No. 5) with the Greater Berlin Radio Orchestra (translated from Grosser Berliner Rundfunk Orchester) conducted by Artur Rother, recorded in 1944 in Berlin. It’s a stunning performance by both pianist and orchestra and also one of the earliest known stereo recordings. During the recording and what was also a live broadcast, one can hear, beginning at 16:41, during the first movement the sound of German anti-aircraft fire outside the radio hall. After this occurs, the playing from all becomes noticeably more defiant. Music and Arts Programs of America Inc. CD-815.
Wait. There’s still Radio in Germany? Jesus, things are worse than one thought.
But then looking at who they want to vote for now, makes sense they are still living in the 1930’s.
With such plans of cutting half of orchestras, the problem always turns-up of: which half exactly? Did Mr Söder seriously think it over? If the upper half is left intact, concerts can still go ahead but the players have to be shuffled on stage by personnel. If the lower half is kept, to avoid extra work for the ushers, playing any music seems to be practically impossible. Getting rid of half of the number of players, again: which half? Left or right? And what if the first and second violins are distributed left and right as in traditional lay-out? Which music can then still be performed? Etc. etc.
Mr Osborn, see above, continues to brand the CDU/CSU parties as far right. This is misinformation.
It is the AfD that is far right. Read here:
https://amp.dw.com/en/german-remigration-debate-fuels-push-to-ban-far-right-afd/a-67965896
for its call for “remigration”. Very alarming.