Very close to the bone.
Hey there BBC – an Israeli satirical programme provided you with a reflective mirror image. take a look @BBCBreaking @BBC @BBCWorld pic.twitter.com/w8YHCrfDo8
— Ran Boker רן בוקר (@ranboker) October 26, 2023
The German tenor, in his first act as…
Review for slippedisc.com by Susan Hall: Asmik Grigorian,…
The mid-career violinist, 49, has transferred his North…
There is no room for Sir Simon Rattle…
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Pathetic.
Elizabeth, the BBC does not has never called the Hamas a terrorist organization!
And your point is? The BBC has to remain neutral otherwise our wonderful Government (not) will be cross!
The BBC has to be politically impartial but that doesn’t mean it cannot call a spade a spade.
When an organisation has been proscribed as terrorists by the EU, US, UK and several other major countries, that’s a matter of fact, not political opinion.
It’s rather a childish use of language, hence best avoided.
Do not ridicule Harry Whiteguilt of the BBC, the best journalist ever, soon to become a Dame.
Sorry, could someone point out what this might have to do with classical music?
And in any case, as always happens… when everyone thinks the BBC is biased against them (as it seems absolutists on both sides of this issue do), it’s usually a sign that they’re doing a decent job of representing the actual situation.
No , they don’t.
Laughable. The BBC is a disgrace.
If you think THAT was laughable…you’ll believe anything.
When it comes to the BBC, ‘laughable’ is merely the first grade of many.
I was replying to H. Any attempt to describe the BBC as impartial is laughable.
Judging by the downvotes there appear to be many people ‘commenting’ on this thread who think that beheading Jewish babies is absolutely fine.
Sure, accusing Israel of a war crime is always the right thing to do – and hang the facts!
Not always, but only when warranted. Whoever commits them should be denounced
As many experts who actually know about that area have attested, Israel is not as far as is known committing any war crimes. Hamas committed war crimes, in the shape of unspeakable atrocities worse than in any horror film I know, and continue to commit war crimes every day, having abducted civilians including babies under 1 year old (even evil ISIS didn’t hurt babies – Hamas decapitated them), and firing missiles and rockets indiscriminately into civilian centres including hospitals. And Hezbollah are doing the same every day from Lebanon btw, as occasionally are the Houthis from Yemen, and Iranian elements from Syria, and all that is happening right now, every day.
The UN disagrees. And so do I.
“Could someone point out what this might have to do with classical music?”
To debunk any claim that classical music has any cognitive benefit or extra appeal to smarter people
I hope the BBC holds its line, which has stood it in good stead throughout its history. Israel and (many) Israelis and Israeli organs seem to be lashing out intemperately at everyone at the moment who dares even to temper their support for Israel’s right to defend itself with the suggestion that it cannot do whatever it likes in Gaza. Look at the language and behaviour of the Israeli Ambassador at the UN. They can’t see how the support they garnered following 7 Oct is almost literally bleeding away as a result. As for what this is doing in a blog supposedly dedicated to classical music, is anybody really surprised?
Bleeding away What a joke. The Israelis had yet to fire a shot and the leftists of the west along with their Islamist Allie’s were already demanding a cease fire.
In what imaginary world can ‘leftist’ be a term ascribed to a supporter of any Theocracy, the most right-wing form of totalitarianism, which is the aim of both Hamas or Likud? Get real, own up – it is “conservatism” which is reponsible from both ends.
@Alank – your comment is a good illustration of the point I was making, and particularly your jaw-dropping suggestion that the resultant risk to Israel’s position is “a joke”.
I also am not sure of the relevance to music, but if we’re having the discussion – the BBC has misreported many things regarding Israel, not least the Hamas assertion that Israel bombed a hospital in Gaza (it didn’t) with more than 500 deaths (more likely dozens). The BBC described ISIS and Al Qaeda as terrorist organisations, so why not Hamas, which is a proscribed terrorist organisation according to the UK and many other governments, and have amply deserved the term in their barbaric actions? Furthermore, the BBC reporting of Israeli actions in Gaza is highly skewed to imply to show some kind of equivalence between the baby-decapitating monsters of Hamas and Israel, which tries its best not to harm civilians even as Hamas embeds itself and attacks from the civilian population. A multitude of serious international law experts (including in the House Of Lords debate the other day) have stated that as far as can be seen Israel – having given warnings, created humanitarian zones and corridors, allowed aid in from Egypt and piping in water, and fighting in the clear cause of preventing future Hamas attacks and attacks from the other powerful hostile forces in the region such as Hezbollah and Iran – is NOT committing any war crimes in Gaza, in stark contrast to Hamas, who commit war crimes every day, including firing missiles and rockets into civilian centres, hitting hospitals (they have hit Ashkelon hospital three times including the children’s wing – did you hear about that on the BBC?) and mosques and schools. It’s worth saying that at least one Israel city they are attacking is more densely populated than Gaza btw.
As far as I have seen, both the BBC and the NYT reported the Hamas assertion as just that, an assertion by Hamas, not an established fact.
Speaking from the U.S., I’ve found the war coverage from the BBC and The Guardian to be far more balanced and rigorous (the Beeb actually has a correspondent in Gaza). American outlets tend to conform much more to the official Israeli government line.
This is so true. Only now, after a lot of public outrage, are US news sources starting to show anything other than the Israel perspective. And it’s still far from balanced reporting.
I understand that in world war 2 you learned the facts from reading the Volkischer Beobachter.
Kudos for your honesty in volunteering your level of reading comprehension
If you’re aware of what was actually written in the Volkischer Beobachter you’d know that it wasn’t just Jews who the Nazis targeted. Millions of non Jews were also victims of Hitler’s genocide. My ancestors were among them.
Then, as now, you are making this conflict entirely about Jews vs the rest of the world. It wasn’t then and it isn’t now.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/11/01/leaving-guardian-over-hamas-coverage/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-rhr
The BBC is doing a superb job under impossible circumstances. Israel believes that every international humanitarian organisation is hopelessly biased against them. In spite of their current trauma they should take some time to reflect that there might actually be something wrong at their end.
How is taking Hamas-run Gaza Health Ministry statistics at face value doing a superb job? They are a propaganda arm of Hamas and yet the BBC report their stats and assertions often without challenge, including, notoriously, in the Gaza hospital incident of last week. How any reporter could not question how the GHM was able to count ‘500 bodies’ literally within minutes of an explosion – when three weeks later, Israel still has not been able to locate and identify the remains of the Hamas massacre of its civilians – beggars belief. How its reporter could determine that Israel was to blame within minutes is also unbelievable sloppy reporting that not only suggests an inbuilt predilection to bias, but has very serious consequences (riots, a Berlin synagogue was firebombed after that report, important diplomatic meetings were cancelled and so on). As for the international aid organisations, unfortunately they have shown their biases against Israel over many years – in this incident, for instance, the International Red Cross initially answered Israeli calls for help with access to the abducted by saying “we are not active in Israel”, while putting out a plea for help for Gazans.
I am jewish and of course i think Hamas is an evil,disgraceful ,cowardly terrorist group comitting horrible crimes.Not just against Israel, but also against Palestinians.
However,the current right wing dominated government had its fair share in the disastrous outcome of events.
BTW, has anyone forgotten the pics of thousands demonstrating against Netanyahu´s trying to overturn the democratic constitution and the civil rights,just weeks ago????
Netanyahu is a Trump like crook, just a million times more intelligent than Cadet Bone Spurs..Now, of course,he can do what he wants. His attack on the constitution is totally overshadowed by the war.
Your ignorance is appalling. Israel has no constitution. Progressives like you are in the lead seeing to abrogate the American. constitution
Thank you for giving me a good laugh!
I agree with your characterisation of Netanyahu, but that has nothing to do with the BBC’s inadequate reporting, that takes, for instance, Hamas-run Gaza Health Ministry statistics (which have often been found to be ludicrously unreliable propaganda) as gospel. Despite the fact that anyone in Gaza who doesn’t peddle the party line is dealt with very severely – such as the journalist who recently wrote something that Hamas didn’t like and was literally arrested and tortured.
There are no words to define how cringeworthy these attempts at humor are. If this is the best argument that its critics can make against its coverage, it surely seems the BBC is doing a great job. Instead, by suggesting that this video makes the BBC a laughing stock, Slippedisc, with the self-righteousness of its acritical manichean views clearly displayed post after post, is the textbook example of the pot calling the kettle black.
Yes, sure, the BBC is doing a great job. No cross checking, zero validation of truth, ignoring evidences. This is journalism at it best. Just taking whatever the palestinians say and broadcast it to the entire world. And when in turns out that it was not the hospital but the parking lot, not 500 but 30 victims, and it was not caused by Israel but by Jihad, the damage is already done, israelis were blamed, protestations all around the world, the summit between US and the arab countries around was cancelled. Who cares about the facts. THAT is self-righteousness.
Let me help you with making your case. It is definitely a tall task to convince people in here that Daniel from Slippedisc is more authoritative than the BBC. It’s not impossible, we know mass media are far from blameless. However, you need to do some extra work. For example, you could clarify whether you have personal firsthand knowledge that there were only 30 victims, and that maybe you saw that the missile was launched by the Jihad (exactly which group)? If not, what’s your source? How did you validate its info? Who else did you contact to cross-check? No need to thank me, just helping for the sake of it
It is all a matter of perspective. For westerners, this is a political issue, where both sides are to blame and a reasonable solution can be reached. Israel is the stronger party and is expected to be more flexible. For Hamas it is a matter of faith. Like ISIS the end goal is a muslim Khlifat, the specufic goal is a holly land without any Jews.
For most Israelies, we are back in 1941, faceing those who made our extermination their faith. It has nothing to do with “the occupation”. Like in 1941 we are really on our own.
I think for westerners, we are treating this as a political issue: Israel is a nation. The US is supporting the country of Israel as a political ally, not Judaism as a religion. We strive to make a clear distinction between church and state in the US.
That’s why it’s baffling to to see support for humanitarian efforts in Palestine labeled as “anti-semitic”.
You’re imposing a religious motive to what we see as a political situation. That’s my take.
It’s the religious motive that is frightening. This is beyond “a political situation.” Look at what has just happened in Dagestan.
I have consistently argued that criticism of Israel, acting as a government, has nothing to do with anti-semitism. I oppose their stance on the settlers and am very discombobulated about reports coming out about settler activity in recent days. And despite the attack of October 7, they do not get a totally free pass on their retaliation tactics.
But October 7 sent a shiver down Israeli spines that even the Yom Kippur war did not. That was a clear military attack. This has the horrible smell of the midnight banging on doors and the hostage taking has the resonance of people being shoved into trucks and never seen again.
Israelis are really frightened, and they have reason to be: in capitals of what they have long considered allied countries, there are massive demos not only against them but sympathetic to people who have brutalised their most innocent people. There has been more genuine sympathy for Israel in this conflict from reasonable spokespeople from Arab and Muslim sources than from its usual allies. That has to be scary.
Can you please give some concrete example of those “massive demos sympathetic to people who have brutalised their most innocent people”? I have read a reasonable amount of news from different sources on the subject and was not aware of any relevant sector of public opinion in allied countries that expressed sympathy for the members of the terrorist commando who killed, kidnapped and terrorized hundreds of innocent Israelis. And nothing short of full condemnation of the terrorist act came from the government of each country allied with Israel.
Honestly, it’s hard to understand what are those signals coming from allied countries that legitimately frightens Israelis, especially after their armed forces were free to flatten a refugee camp in Gaza, “brutalising an unknown number of most innocent people”, whom they did not hesitate shredding to bits to kill one Hamas guy, without any audible peep from the international community being heard. I doubt there is a single Palestinian who would not consider the day in which the behavior of people demonstrating in a foreign country became his main source of fear as one of the happiest days of his life.
I think you consider “Jews” merely as a religious group. This is common modern mistake: Untill 1800 it was obvious to all that Jews were also a distinct nation. In 1922 this fact was recognized by the League of Nations, and again in 1947 by the UN – and that is why those organs bestowed upon the Jews the right of political self determination – which the Palestinians to this days do not acknowledge.
For the Palestinians – certainly for Hamas – this is also a religious matter: Jews are like dogs and monkeys, inhuman creatures unworthy of rights. The complete Holly Land is Wakf – an endowment to be kept in trust. Jews can not own a grain of it’s sand. This is not idle talk. Jordanian law, for instance, forbids the sale of land to Jews (And Jordan was originaly part of the Mandate intended to become a Jewish state).
Imposing political explanations and solutions on religious motivation is unhelpfull – not regarding Israel, and not in dealling with Jihad in general.
Great. But the US is not giving billions of aid every year to a religion. The fact that you are trying to make it that way is exactly why there are displays of anti-semitism in the US right now.
The US is a country of many faiths. We support Israel as a nation, not a religion. Our constitution separates church and state. The more you try to impose a religious history or significance to this conflict, the more resistance you will get from US taxpayers. You will see more and more alleged “anti-semitism”.
We will not pay for your religious holy war. We are supporting Israel as a nation, an ally. That’s how this conflict has to be narrated if you want US support. It’s your current narration which is not helpful.
You are welcome to seek billions in aid from any other country on the planet besides the US.
Yaron, you were not “on your own” in 1941. The Nazis persecuted millions of non Jewish political prisoners, ethnic Slavs & Poles, Romani, gays, the disabled and Catholics. Millions. You conveniently have forgotten that.
Never, never have Jews spoken up for the non-Jews who were imprisoned and persecuted by Hitler along side them. It’s all about you, you, you. Non-Jewish victims don’t exist to you. Those were my ancestors. In their name, and in the name of the millions of non-Jewish victims of Hitler’s genocide who you choose to ignore, I am calling you out. You were NOT alone in 1941. My Catholic ancestors were right there with you. Stop trying to rewrite history. It’s offensive.
This is absurd and borderline antisemitic. There was never a plan to exterminate all Catholics. You have been paused from this conversation.
I wonder why the 2 young satirists aren’t in uniform, defending their country.
Looks like someone hasn’t exactly garnered the kind of sympathy he was seeking by posting this….lol
It has shown up the left-liberal antisemites for the hypocrites they are, though. If they’re all so worried about dispossessed Arabs, why aren’t they demonstrating against Erdogan for his appalling treatment of the Kurds as we speak?
Kurds are not Arabs. there are any number of injustices going on in the world. Why pick on this one?
Precisely, why? Because it involves Jews and they’re always fair game. As for the Kurds, OK, dispossessed Muslims then, but the message remains the same. As they’re being oppressed by a Muslim dictator, the pearl-clutching left has nothing to say.
I wasn’t going to post anything about this subject, but having read some of the appalling nonsense above this morning I have had to change my mind.
The BBC is doing a very difficult job. It has reporters embedded in Israel and Gaza itself who try to provide accurate and unbiased coverage of these tragic events. Thank goodness for reporters like Jeremy Bowen.
As I have written before on this column Israel will not have peace until it comes up with a just settlement with its Palestinian neighbours. Let me remind readers of this column of the figures: there are 14.3m Palestinians worldwide. Roughly speaking, these are distributed as follows: West Bank 3m, Gaza 2.2m, Israel itself 2m, Jordan 3m, Syria and Lebanon 1m, around 1m Egypt, UAE and Saudi Arabia, 0.5m Chile. And a few others in the diaspora. Many of the above still live in the refugees camps they were driven into in 1947/8 and 1967. Some of Netanyahu’s ministers (take a bow Mr Smotrich) believe that the ethnic cleansing of the lands needs to be completed and all Palestinians must leave their homeland. Do these people seriously believe that this will provide long term peace and stability for Israel? History will judge, but just imagine for a moment the 100th anniversary of the the formation of the state of Israel or the Nakba as the other side call it, that we will reach in 2048. Israel has to find a just solution.
Much of this goes back to the infamous and naive Balfour declaration of 1917, when the British Government in its wisdom decided to give away another people’s country. However, it is much misquoted. What the declaration stated was this: “His Majesty’s Government view with favour the establishment of a national homeland for the Jewish people…it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine. That last part has always been the tricky bit. And it has now become far trickier.
Glad there is someone sensible here, thanks Michael.
Bravo, Mr Turner – a much-needed rational response.
“As I have written before on this column Israel will not have peace until it comes up with a just settlement with its Palestinian neighbours.”
Like the suggested settlement turned down by Arafat at Camp David, to Clinton’s fury?
It’s not for want of trying.
“A just settlement” is fine – but what constitues a just settlement? Thus far no Palestinian representative was ready to acknowledge a Jewish Israel in any borders. Furthermore, they insist on a “right of return” of all refugees into whatever is left of Israel. So, a just settlement from a Palestinian point of view is unacceptable to a non suicidal Israeli.
Awful lot of people on here defending terrorism meted out to Jews because of their nationality. Nice to see who you really are…
To all you downvoters: Why aren’t you demonstrating against Erdogan, as I posted above? Or does he belong to one of the lobotomised left-liberals’ protected species?
I do not recall seeing any “people on here” defending “terrorism meted out to Jews because of their nationality.” Or any other terrorism. There is a range of views being presented, naturally enough. But your post is just another example of misstatement of facts.
It is not helpful (and you are not alone in it) — it just keeps real problems from being truthfully addressed. And it is especially ironic in a thread about the alleged misrepresentation by the BBC.
Every downvote for a post supporting Israel is couched in antisemitism. If you’re all so worried about dispossessed Arabs, demonstrate against Erdogan too. The state of Israel is not perfect but it has a right to exist and defend itself. Few people here seem to think that’s the case.
All the ‘apologists’ on here might care to read this:
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/dagestans-anti-semitic-mob-and-the-truth-about-palestinian-solidarity/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=CampaignMonitor_Editorial&utm_campaign=LNCH%20%2020231030%20%20House%20Ads%20%20SM+CID_79ee64456f0be078fee317a257915747
Well, I think Israel has a right to exist, and to defend itself. But I may well have downvoted some excessive comments that do not seem to afford the same right to the Palestinians. One poster, whose name I do not recall, referred to them as “vermin,” and talked about “eradicating” them. I seem to recall that sort of terminology in Germany some decades back. I downvote rubbish like that.
I also downvote comments hostile to Barenboim simply because he wants to see justice for all parts of the region. I might understand some of the extremist responses, but that does not mean supporting them.
I am, however, alarmed, as I have written elsewhere on these screens, at the nature of support for the Palestinians being expressed in foreign parts. It is terrifying to see what happened in Dagestan, though one is not overly surprised by it, given the source, but I do not like seeing “Palestine From the RIver to the Sea” projected on the walls of George Washington University.
That is students in the USA, bastion of soi-disant democracy and alleged ally of Israel, essentially speaking out for the elimination of Israel. I do not wonder that Jewish people everywhere are frightened, or angry, when this sort of thing is happening in this sort of place.
I am reminded of the terminology in Germany just a few decades back when I read now from the caring left that the Jews ‘had it coming’.
European liberals of all hues are not worried about Palestinians (a race which has multiplied five-fold since the creation of the state of Israel – some genocide, eh?), they want to stick it to the Jews. As I’ve mentioned before, if they were really concerned about dispossessed Arabs, they’d be in the streets fulminating against Erdogan and his reprehensible treatment of the Kurds, but there’s no social or political traction to be gained in attacking Muslims or their leaders. So they weigh in against Israel, safe in the knowledge that these people will not scream victimhood but just get on with defending its corner.
The Jewish race has consistently punched above its weight in every domain (with the possible exception of sport) and doubtless provokes great envy among those less skilled or adroit. Anti-Semitism is the credo of losers.
I watched a video of what happened at that airport in Dagestan and am pretty certain I won’t see many of the featured stars on University Challenge any time soon – though with the BBC, who knows? If nothing else, it provided a telling insight – as if one were needed at all – about the intellectual level of ambient anti-Semitism in our midst, and that’s the most frightening aspect of all.
It’s time to stop being naive and surprised or shocked when the threat is so bleeding obvious that even a retarded two-year-old could identify it. We need to do away with this mealy-mouthed apologia and face the huge, existential problem face on.
The USA may be a soi-disant democracy but its universities manifestly are not, and have not been for a considerable time.
Everything you say Anthony! Spot on! We know the score.
Anthony Sayer, do you think heavily bombing a highly populated urban area with more than 2 million people trapped inside is a crime? If not, do you think who considers it a crime is antisemite?
Oh, for heaven’s sake, Anthony.. Supporting Palestinian human rights is not anti-semitic.[redacted]
WTF has this post to do with MUSIC?