‘In 4-5 years, there won’t be any classical artists’
NewsThe Portuguese pianist Maria Joao Pires has given a gloomy interview to Radio France.
I am very positive about the future: artificial intelligence for example – now everyone is talking about that, I think that it can bring us something positive. I would like to participate in programs with neuroscientists, to explain the small details so that we can really keep, not only the recording, but the way of doing things. Because maybe in a few years there won’t be any more classical artists. I’m not talking about two generations. Maybe four or five, I don’t know. Because the way we teach today has absolutely nothing to do with it. Imagine Beethoven: who is the living person who can play Beethoven? It’s [Alfred] Brendel! He can’t anymore, he doesn’t play anymore.
She apologises for having announced her retirement in 2018:
My public apologies for having said that! she replies amused, because deep down, I hadn’t finished, I had to come back. I needed, I hadn’t finished. But here, now , I feel that, from all points of view, it would be wise to finish. I’m not telling you when because I haven’t made my decision yet. Maybe in a year and a half, in two years… I need time to find the date.
She talks about the fear:
Our physical abilities are diminishing, and the fear is there, natural, you never know what will happen, it’s playing with uncertainty. And that’s good because it teaches us a lot of things, but at the same time, it’s unpleasant every time….(it) has nothing to do with the public, but with our sense of responsibility, to think we are going to disappoint… there are many reasons, it is introduced as a silent enemy. But I’m not complaining! You know, it’s like everything. We always try to overcome, not only our fears, but our living conditions.’
She said 4-5 generations. Not years.
It’s in years if in dog generations ; )
As long as there are Asians on this planet, there will be classical music artists, well, at least in violin and piano ; ) ; )
You’ve certainly got that right!! They love it. And why wouldn’t they?
There coming along well with wind and percussion instruments too.
This is great news!!
Yes, and robotic in their performances.
Somewhat of an unnecessary racial comment, IMHO.
It is somewhat ambiguous. In the context of the whole interview, she may be saying that “in a few years – I don’t mean two generations – I mean maybe four or five years – nobody will know how to play Beethoven”. In other words, once the octogenarians plus like Brendel (Argerich, Barenboim, …?) have died off or can no longer perform, nobody will be left to carry on the tradition. I think this is rather pessimistic!
She didn’t mention years anywhere.
Yes, she did, in the English translation here, and also in the French interview “Parce que, peut être, dans quelques années, il n’y aura plus d’artistes classiques. Je ne parle pas de deux générations. Peut être quatre ou cinq, je ne sais pas.” I read it as ‘quatre ou cinq’ explaining ‘quelques années’, not ‘deux générations’.
Huh? More people are always discovering that they like Bach Mozart Ludwig Dvorak Berlioz Bizet Swan Lake Petrushka Copland and Grofe.
Perhaps they are, but I’m inclined to agree with the late Zoltán Kocsis who predicted that audiences of the future wouldn’t appreciate what they were listening to – that they wouldn’t be able to distinguish between a coca cola and a good Bordeaux… and that’s a quote from 20 years ago.
I am part of that “audience of the future” today. I listen exclusively to classical music now although I spent a lifetime listening to rock, r & b and pop music. Listening to classical, although I enjoy it, I’m not always sure what I am listening to. I am still learning.
Grofe?! You’ve got him in the wrong column.
The headline is wrong and misleading. It is quit obvious, that Pires did not mean in four or five years, but four or five generations. The headline needs to be corrected.
What is she talking about?
She doesn’t know what she’s talking about. Whatever the potential of AI, it doesn’t precude human performance. As to no one knowing how to play Beethoven after Brendel dies, that’s patently absurd.
Correct. From my understanding, AI is a bunch of programming codes, which stands for Artificial Stupidity, actually.
4-5 generations, not years…
Four or five generations. Not years.
Was that written by A.I?
Haven’t you got to have intelligent people before you can have AI? Just asking, as there seems to be a dearth of them nowadays.
I think the AI will end up doing the thinking for them, logical or otherwise.
No, by H.S.
It’s difficult to follow her reasoning.
She might be a good fit for DEI PR spokesperson after her third, or fourth, retirement from performing.
Or maybe she should just stick to playing the piano, instead of these other forays into … whatever.
From what I understand she said 4 – 5 generations, not years.
“….who is the living person who can play Beethoven? It’s [Alfred] Brendel! He can’t anymore, he doesn’t play anymore.”
I simply cannot believe that Beethoven was so disconnected from reality that he was busy composing music so effete, so fragile that only some super being was capable of playing it properly. Absolute twaddle from a great artist who should know better.
I have to disagree with the premise that Beethoven cared whether his music was playable or not, especially in his later years.
The most famous replique comes from the master himself who told the violinist performing the premiere of his Violin Concerto, who had complained about certain passages not being playable: “What do I care about your miserable violin?”
In more recent days, none other than Artur Schnabel held fast to the idea that there was certain music which was “better than it can be possibly performed”. And he was not referring exclusively to Beethoven, but there are some late sonatas which he was also thinking about (e.g. Op. 106, Op. 111).
Actually, the comment was made to Ignaz Schuppanzigh, the leader of the quartet that first performed many of Beethoven’s quartets, in response to Schuppanzigh’s comments about the difficulties found in the F major “Razumovsky” quartet.
You are correct … I should have looked up the sources before commenting.
I think, reading it, it’s perfectly clear she means 4-5 generations, not 4-5 years.
The possible lack of classical artists in 4-5 generations’ time is not exactly the greatest of our problems at the moment.
Yes, I’m sure your whole attention is on much weightier matters. Most people have some ability to multitask, however.
So once you announce you’ve “finished” we don’t need classical musicians anymore? Great motivation for the next generation Maria… Thanks for that. Just another self-absorbed soloist…
Read what she really said before attacking her.
It is obvious you have never hear of one of the magnificent pianist of world class. Catch up and don’t miss her magic!
Her fear is that artificial intelligence can slowly replace and automate what people do. This applies to many walks of life. We already witness audio demos that sound pretty close to the real deal – but not quite. The simple truth is, that, if AI replaces arts, aesthetics, whether it is playing a Beethoven sonata, or a brand new composition, or can cook a meal worthy of a five star restaurant, or plan a college student’s four year degree program, or draft contracts and detect the slightest legal issue, or even make corporate decisions for major companies, then humanity ceases to function. There will slowly be less of a need to bring life into a world where AI can do it all. This is an underlying fear. Rod Serling accomplished this fear in several episodes of his “The Twilight Zone” when a robot becomes the ‘mother’ of children whose human mother had passed. Or, the robot who takes over for an old wealthy boss and screams out her name, “Bar-ba-ra”! The human ability to do what no other form of matter can do is what keeps it evolving. It isn’t only music, it is everything. We must be careful about what we do to make human life simpler. There’s something to be said for years of living and revisiting music of the past, or bringing new music to the world that humanity appreciates. If we stretch the rubber band too wide, the rubber band of human life, it may snap forever. That may be what Maria meant.
I read it differently: she weclomes AI because she wants to use it as an analytical tool, to aid in preserving and passing on teaching traditional techniques. Her fear is that the older tradition of playing the classics is being lost, as the younger generation goes in for ‘cross-over’ and becomes less rigorous in their performance practice. But the french transcript of the interview is hard to interpret, and perhaps listening to the full interview would give a better idea of what she means.
I think Ms. Pires is also afraid of declining abilities with age, which is natural. I have to say though, that what is most important to me, as both a musician and a member of an audience, is the sense of someone actually [re-]creating something seemingly out of thin air at a performance. I remember seeing Arthur Rubinstein perform when he was in his late 80s. I didn’t go to hear technical perfection, but rather someone who could shape a musical line almost magically. I would hope that Ms. Pires’ audiences attend her concerts for similar reasons.
Keep in mind also that AI is likely to have the greatest effect on the recorded music industry rather than live performance.
I agree with K Kaufman about the effect on the recorded music industry and particularly the pop side. And in turn that has already had an influence on the live concert side of things: pop artists are relying more on “auto-tune” not just because their voice cannot deal with actual challenges but because the songs being written increasingly just assume the use of auto-tune and thus would pose a challenge to any voice. As a consequence, more and more pop music concerts are entirely or somewhat lip-synched affairs because the audience paid to hear the song as recorded and there is no other way to deliver that. At some point AI technology will complete the circle and sophisticated holograms — already a possibility — will make the actual presence of the “artist” unnecessary. And once we buy into that, why have a performing artist at all if the technology can do it all – and do it better?
And here is where Pires’s other concern kicks in. Pop bands need never age, either in physical appearance or in the musical material. The AI version of the Beach Boys won’t need to hire a female singer (hidden from view of the audience) to hit the high notes once Brian Wilson lost his falsetto. The AI version of the Rolling Stoned won’t look like “here’s your cadaver” day at the Harvard Medical School.
I happen to think classical, and perhaps jazz, stand the best chances of resisting the most anti-human tendencies of AI. But there are pernicious possibilities even there on the recorded side. Could not Heifetz be sampled sufficiently to give us a Heifetz recording of the Brg Concerto? Or at least eliminate the cuts he brought to the Mozart Concerto No 5 all three times he recorded it? As early as the mono LP era it was attempted to splice and cut and assemble a version of Artur Schnabel’s Beethoven Sonata set without the famous wrong notes. Now we could have Schnabel record things he never played in his life. Hey, the Khachaturian Concerto!
A further comment on Pires’s thoughts about growing older. I recall a Cleveland Orchestra broadcast which included a brief interview with the soloist, Nathan Milstein, and it touched on how Milstein was still playing so beautifully at what for a string player was an advanced age. He admitted that it was unusual and then said that he hoped when the “end” came (he meant the end of that ability, not the end of his life) that it would come very quickly and totally. And more or less, he got his wish.
On the subject of Al, George Orwell’s “1984” features either a “Kaleidoscope” or a “Versificator” that composes all Party-approved music including songs, marches, etc.
Then there’s the 1968 epic si-fi epic movie “2001: A Space Odyssey,” there is “HAL the Computer” that not only talks but even has emotions and feelings and tries to take over the mission until Astronaut David Bowman disconnects him.
There you have the foreseeing of Artificial Intelligence.
Brendel??!! Haaaaahahahaha!!!
Yes. If I may say Brendel was the worst great pianist I have heard live. So boring. Lupu, Argerich and Zimerman are much more interesting in their own way.
In your most humble opinion! I loved Brendels playing – so lyrical.
So say you…..Zimerman less boring? Whoa, lost your credibility there….he’s a corpse these days.
Elaborate?
The important artists are out there building audiences not talking like this.
There will always be pianist genius like Yuja Wang who plays everything from Rach.to jazz.The music pours out of her.She is a thrilling performer!!Every era produces classical artists who will keep Beethoven going forever!
This is nonsense! Look at Yuga Wang! She will be around for another half-century or more, and there is a continuous crop of new young artists appearing every year. What’s with the fixation on octogenarians carrying the torch?
She does occasionally talk of abandoning the profession and doing something else.
She does more than talk. I’m pretty sure she’s mentoring – or at least has been – younger generations of pianists in her home country.
She’s correct, but AI is not the issue. There won’t be audiences as dead, white European music is cast aside, especially in America. The decline in audiences has already started, except for the large, wealthy orchestras and even there filling halls is getting tougher to do.
Did you read the interview??????She´s been talking about 4-5 generations,not years….She is one of my all time favourite pianists,a nd a thoughtful,lovely lady….Saw her playing Mozart´s two piano concerto in Mannheim last saturday with the young israeli pianist Iddo Bar Shai….marvellous!
I have much respect for Maria João Pires and her playing. This interview, though, is akin to Bloom floating on the Liffey or Lear screaming upon the heath. For her, this is incoherent.
Wish her well,
Only Brendel had the ability yo play Beethoven? Brendel…and she, I suppose…
She was Talkin’ ’bout my generation(s), not years.
Whether she means generations or years, and I presume the former, I think her prognostication is highly unlikely to be the case.
I can’t make heads or tails of what the hell she’s saying about AI and classical performance.
Quite eerie; so much clear evidence to the contrary omitted as if Maria Pires is in a little world of her own. Meanwhile performances – instrumentalists, vocalists, conductors – are peaking, techniques are astonishing.
In mitigation, the source was ostensibly an interview, not a visionary lecture. The interview appears to have no structure and interviewer no clearcut purpose which consolidates the bleak dim outlook
And what about the many very good musicians who hardly have an audience? Will they vanish? And are they not worth mentioning?
Ms Pires, who has an academy (Belgais) and created children and youth choirs in many parts of the world, might wish to re-think the doomsday rubbish.
“ The Only Constant in Life Is Change.”
– Heraclitus
We are already seeing how AI is learning and replacing humans. Some say that AI could never fully replace human creativity and passion. Perhaps so but if it can be learned AI will do it eventually.
She was clearly talking about 4 or 5 GENERATIONS. That will never happen. She doesn’t understand technology and has probably gone a bit loopy in her old age. Thanks for the click bait though…
Obviously she doesn’t like the way the younger pianists play Beethoven. Her problem.
Mitsuko Uchida
Lang Lang
Marc-André Hamelin
Pavel Zarukin
Brad Mehldau
Diana Krall
Martha Argerich
Yuja Wang
Cory Henry
Hélène Grimaud
I honestly don’t think artists are the best placed to comment about the state of the industry as a whole, too much anecdote and rarely much substance. There are many composers for whom the idiom has simply fallen out of fashion, they’re naturally replaced by others, not necessarily signalling something so melodramatic as the downfall of the industry. For example, whilst standards of playing Tchaikovsky may not be what they once were, we see a wealth of great Shostakovich interpreters. Where the voices may not be there for Wagner today, there are many more great baroque opera performers than ever before. Is this not just a natural cycle?
WAIT. Are there in fact classical musicians younger than 50? I thought all of the “virtuosos” selected to be posterboys/girls of the label Had no incentice to learn/expand the rep. business as usual
Actually, according to contemporary critics and reviewers, Brendel’s Beethoven in concert was quite uneven to say the least.
Pires is playing Mozart’s Piano Concerto #9 in L.A. next season, I think she’d better off retiring than playing easy pieces just cos she can’t decide on ‘the date’…
Only cheap individuals think that Mozart 9 is an “easy piece”
Really? Generations or years it’s refreshing to hear a musician of her caliber say something other then the future of classical music is bright.
Have you seen the state of orchestras, music education and audiences ? People don’t go to concerts. Joshua Bell proved people can’t tell the difference between good playing and not. Really how many recordings of The Four Seasons do we really need? The Moonlight Sonata?
The interviewer needed to clarify her response or we need a better English translation.
“Because maybe in a few years there won’t be any more classical artists. I’m not talking about two generations. Maybe four or five, I don’t know.”
Unfortunate sentence order, but it seems pretty clear that “in a few years” is “four or five [years],” not generations. For or five generations is scarcely “a few years.”
Classical music is in danger, but less from AI than from “woke” ideology. Repertoire is being chosen and conductors and musicians are being hired and fired, not on the basis of artistic merit, but extraneous factors like race and sexual preference, with predictable consequences.
HJ Lim plays Beethoven, and does it very well.
Why would anyone ever think that AI could EVER replace REAL musicians-NOT frauds like AI? You’ll never have AI violinists, or cellists etc. While the AI might create something that sounds like music, it’s NOT. Real music comes from a composer’s life experience. It comes from things that composer hears, thinks and creates. AI can NEVER do that nor can it replace these qualifiers. I don’t care what these “fake humans” come up with. They simply cannot and will not replace a REAL HUMAN composer.
I respect Ms. Pires tremendously as a pianist but I think that her statement about the number of future artists is not in touch with reality. I believe that the number of incredibly capable pianists, both musically and artistically, as evident through outstanding level in numerous international Competitions, as well as through enrollment numbers and levels in degree programs at various conservatories and universities worldwide, is only growing. At the same time, look at the huge numbers of young pianists who are starting to gain international attention these days. They can not be counted in one hand as in the decades before. I think Ms. Pires may be out of touch with this actual reality because with her busy Artist schedule she does not teach a lot or judge many competition (its no secret that she actually dislikes competitions,) and she spends most of her time performing on the stage which is great.
In what I see, there is an incredible pool of young, talented, and fantastic artists pianists that would benefit from more opportunities given to them.