The conductor from hell

william osborne says:

Yes, Michael, deny, deny, deny. Never mind that Stoibers supposedly out of context statement fits well with countless other things he has said — and some stating exactly the same point. I remember when Edmund Stoibler took office as the Minister President of Bavaria (during Celis reign at the Phil) he said he would “give Bavaria the one-man democracy it is used to.” An ironic statement in the birth city of the Third Reich. I saw these authoritarian cultural values in practice on a daily basis.

As for the SPD, the prominent SPD politician Thilo Sarrazin published a book in 2010 which claimed that foreigners were lowering Germany’s average IQ. He said most Turks and Arabs are incapable of integration, and that foreigners come to Germany just to exploit its social welfare system. In an interview with Welt am Sonntag he caused a scandal when he claimed that “all Jews share a certain gene like all Basques share a certain gene that distinguishes these from other people.” Sarrasin’s book is the best-selling book on politics in Germany in the last decade. It has sold 1.1 million copies. A reprint edition sold out in hours. For details on his views see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thilo_Sarrazin#Immigration.2C_Islam_and_social_welfare_controversy

The website below provides statistics that show that xenophobia and anti-foreignerism are stronger in Bavaria than in the rest of Germany. (In short, 37% held anti-foreigner views as opposed to the national average of 29%.) The survey found that 16.8% of the people in Bavaria felt that the Third Reich had positive aspects – twice the national ratio. Read this survey how you will, but the numbers are not comforting. Details here:

http://katharina-schulze.de/veranstaltung-wer-ist-hier-anders-alltags-rassismus-und-ausgrenzung-in-bayern/

Forgive me if I don’t debate these topics. My experience with people’s denial about these issues has taught me that most dialog is pointless and deeply distasteful. That said, progress in Germany is steady and continuous, and the Austro-Bavarian region does not define the norm. These problems will for the most part eventually be part of the past, and in some parts of Germany already are.

Michael Schaffer says:

william osborne says:

Yes, Michael, deny, deny, deny. Never mind that Stoibers supposedly out of context statement fits well with countless other things he has said

No, William, facts, facts, facts. And not “supposedly out of context” – that has been clarified long ago by several journalists who were there.

But that is not the point here. Nor is it the point here that I also think that Stoiber is a total egghead and that he has said many stupid things * . You should be able to gather from my above remarks that my opinion of him isn’t much better than yours.

The point here is that once again, you have presented “evidence” taken out of context, embellished with wrong “facts”, to inflate your own soapbox. As much as a babblehead as Stoiber is, he does not deserve to be pushed into the Nazi corner by you in this way.

And then you drag in Sarrazin, another egghead from a completely different time and place, to “prove” that the SPD in Munich are also all really total Nazis.

You have obviously made the experience that since in Germany, the N subject is taken very seriously so if you throw around the N word, you get your instant soapbox, and you often abuse that for your own agenda. And of often totally out of context.

Your submission here that Celibidache, a known authoritarian and certified douche (albeit one with quite outstanding musical abilities nonetheless) was really hired in Munich because they are all really just Nazis is just completely bizarre and, as the German saying goes, “total an den Haaren herbeigezogen”. **

Forgive me if I don’t debate these topics.

Yes, we already know that you always say that when you run out of solid arguments. Which is usually very quickly. Frankly, that hit and run tactic has gotten very old by now. I don’t think with the very loose attitude towards facts and coherent arguments that you often display, you are even qualified to “debate these topics”. Either they are too complex for you to grasp or you just want to stand on that instant soapbox – hard to say, and irrelevant anyway.

* And many involuntarily hilarious things, too:
http://www.stoibaer.de/stoiber-in-hochform

** Literally, “dragged in by its hair”, similar to the English expression “dragged into sth. kicking and screaming”.