Jackie Evancho: There is no auto-tune on my new album
mainThe young singer insists that the voice and the sound are hers, all hers. Autotune quote at 1:47.
Take that, Britney Spears.
Comments
MOST READ TODAY:
-
Orchestras
Powerhouse violinist quits in Cleveland
We hear that Stephen Rose, former head of…
-
News
These we have lost in 2024
There have been some irreparable losses. Germany mourned…
-
News
Panic buttons at Cleveland
The steady departure of cherished professors at the…
-
Orchestras
Happy birthday MTT, 80 today
The prolific international conductor Michael Tilson Thomas, diagnosed…
Honestly, Norman, give it up! What about the thousands of pop and rock singers, from the last 60 years, who haven’t ever used autotune or similar? And what about the thousands of classical singers who have taken days to record a CD because they haven’t nailed it on first take?
What are Britney Spears’s sale numbers compared to Jackie Evancho?
Seriously, what’s the point you’re trying so hard (and clearly failing) to make?!
Your question is rather stupid. You can’t compare Jackie’s target audience with your auto tune, very loud, vocalist and her audience.. If we can call her that
Ha, ha, many producers will use auto tune on the vocals of artists without telling them! :):):). A “vocal” performance on a pop record is a compilation of maybe dozens of performance takes. It has nothing to do with “live” singing! People need to get over it. 🙂
True, though generally subtly so it’s not noticeable.
Funnily, I often hear young singers imitating the effect of over-used auto tune, which many are able to do completely acoustically. As a result, it can be difficult to know for certain whether it has been used or not; even when it appears to be over-used for effect, it may well be natural.
I believe the young miss Evancho. After all, most of us who deal with the actual nuts and bolts of the recording and editing process know that Celemony’s Melodyne is much more effective and less prone to artifacts than Autotune!
I can think of at least one great soprano, whose prime was in the 1950s, who could have benefited from Autotune.
To believe or not to believe……. Jackie should put her recording up for Realsing certification and erase any doubt.
http://realsing.org
Great idea!
Jackie doesn’t need auto-tune. She’s a great singer
Here is the official video for the song “The Rains of Castamere” which is mentioned in the interview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWT9kKS8RBE
Quite unmusical. Lots of ugly swells and no phrasing to speak of. If she wasn’t cute, she wouldn’t get any attention at all.
Well, to each his own, but as of now the Song is the top rated Amazon mp3 classical new release song, and the number 2 best seller last 90 days.
Unmusical?
How come then does her singing make me feel so full of feelings and almost weep?
Don’t want your musical.
Instead I want to hear more of this Jackie Evancho.
She makes you feel so full of feelings? If you are feeling something, what else could you be experiencing but feelings???
Listen to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSZxmZmBfnU
Isn’t that so much nicer? Judy Garland presents the song in its beautiful simplicity, with no unnecessary ornamentations, swells, or fuss. Jackie just wallows in it at half tempo, complete with all her distracting mannerisms (hair flicks, raised hand, etc.)
Alex,
If Jackie’s music gives you that much pain, you shouldn’t listen to her at all. Why torture yourself 🙂
I wouldn’t say that she causes me pain … it’s just not good music-making.
Besides, it wouldn’t be fair if I commented on her singing without listening carefully at least once. So I did. And now I don’t have to listen to any more.
But I will certainly enjoy the Judy Garland version again!
Is that a promise? You said you would not comment anymore so let us see if you have half the integrity and character you imply, if so then you are out of here……….. I won’t hold my breath since I have worked with troubled youth in the past;
Exactly, Judy Garland sings this song, not croons or jazzes it up, like so many others who want to gild the lily.
But more than that, you don’t feel she is singing it, it comes out so naturally! That is real art and MUCH more difficult to do than employing cheap theatrics.
It’s always great to see an expert opinion on what is good and correct.
I’ve enjoyed your comments. I’m not a music expert. I like Jackie Encho, but despite her talent, there always seemed to be something a bit off in her singing. You hit on exactly the things I was noticing. In my words, her voice was lacking texture and detail. I believe you said the term is ” Hooty”. I didn’t sense any malice in your comments. Looked to be a valuable critique. I truly hope she finds her range and improves.
Children should be protected from this kind of exposure, just as bad as putting them in the rain without a proper coat and umbrella. They shouldn’t be expected to make intelligent choices about their career without knowledge and experience. Too much praise is almost as bad as criticism but reality checks are necessary. Criticism should be directed at the handlers and mentors of a young person. If there are technical flaws, they are the fault of the adults and I mean this for all kiddle performers who are placed before the public before they are ready.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions. Alex, please correct me if I am wrong, your opinion that Jackie Evancho is…
ALEX SAYS:
July 9, 2014 at 8:20 pm
Quite unmusical. Lots of ugly swells and no phrasing to speak of. If she wasn’t cute, she wouldn’t get any attention at all.
– See more at: https://slippedisc.com/2014/07/jackie-evancho-there-is-no-auto-tune-on-my-new-album/?replytocom=33658#respond
So you are saying PBS has recorded three (3) Ms. Evancho’s solo PBS Great Performances Special because she is cute.
And you are saying the reason the Russian’s invited Ms. Evancho to perform at the “Bouquet of the Opera” concert for the opening ceremony of the 2012 St. Petersburg International Economic Forum, with Dmitri Hvorostovsky of Russia and Sumi Jo of South Korea, because she is cute?
And you are saying the reason the committee members of 2013 Cirque Du Soleil One Night One Drop (Daniel LaMarre, President and CEO, Cirque Du Soleil, James Murren, Chairman and CEO, MGM Resorts International, and Tom Staggs, Chairman, Walt Disney Parks and Resorts) selected Ms. Evancho out of all the vocal artist in the world to be their Special Guest Performer at their inaugural fundraiser was because she is cute?
Alex I could have listed many, many more examples to refute the validity of your opinion of Ms. Evancho performance skills, but there was no need to.
But since you mentioned “Over the Rainbow” I will add one more example.
Again please correct me if I am wrong. According to your opinion the only reason Ms.Evancho receives any attention is because she is cute?
So you are saying the reason Ms. Evancho was selected to perform “Over the Rainbow” and present the 2014 Towering Song Award to honor the 75-year old classic “Over the Rainbow” from the 1939 film The Wizard of Oz at the 45th Annual Songwriters Hall of Fame Awards Dinner was because she is cute?
well said. Perhaps CJ meant that those people and groups were not qualified to make those invitations and/or comments. Let’s face it CJ, he/she, has some deep problems, anyone who obsessives with a 11 to 14 year girl to the tune of several thousand words, mostly critical, has need of professional help. I keep wondering why people aren’t asking two questions of CJ. Why hide your name if I were as qualified as he/she says I would not hide it since people would pay more attention to what is said. The second is why does CJ wage this campaign against Jackie? I met her in Minneapolis before her concert and she is a wonderful young lady and it is difficult to understand these rants against her. Did Jackie’s parents pay her to analyze her voice techniques, her dress, where to hold the mike, where to look, etc? Perhaps Public Broadcasting did, or David Foster,one of her conductors, or who? Apparently CJ is fluent in French, Italian, Latin so she is qualified to comment on Jackie’s the accent, inflection, intonation, in those languages. Finally, Later this week I am having lunch with a psychiatrist (husband of a colleague in the Psychology department) so I will bring him copies of all of the most outrageous rants I can find time to locate, and print, and get his unofficial opinion of the author
Hey CabbageJuice – You’ll be waiting with breathless anticipation on the results, I’m sure. Just think….a FREE psychiatric assessment from an impartial, independent professional! You’re so fortunate – and even more fortunate I guess, that Robert probably won’t be submitting evidence attesting to your sad delusion that I am none other than one “Robin Bermanseder”.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
“The Rains of Castamere” that is.
Autotune? Seriously? Jackie Evancho has taken a simple theme song from a popular TV series and transformed it into the most beautiful, haunting experience. She really is the voice of the 21st century.
The autotune comment is at 1:53 not 1:47.
The set-up question is at 1:47.
Most pop singers need autotune. Jackie does not. Like Barbra Streisand, she has perfect pitch.
Really, Norman? “Take that Britney Spears”? Britney has sold millions of albums around the world and has had a career most pop stars would kill for. Granted, that career was plagued by her personal mental health problems, but she is still one of the most successful stars out there with a current 2 year Vegas residency. How about yourself? Take that, Norman Lebrecht! (post this if you are a real man!)
What excites me(beyond the fact that this is her first album in two years)is she will be singing Je T’aime, a beautiful song sung by Lara Fabian, and Your Love, another beautiful song written by Ennio Morricone and sung by Dulce Pontes. These two alone will be worth the price of the album.
Norm I like your new format, much easier to read with the white background, but can you give us an edit function please?
Yes Alex, you are right about Judy Garland! Her version of Somewhere Over the Rainbow is unsurpassed.
I was talking about The Rains of Castamere. I think the Jackie Evancho version of that song is very beautiful.
Just a little note about auto tune and singing. Pitch is a more complex subject than accomodating one’s instrument, be it strings or voice, to that of a equal tempered keyboard. So all of this talk about having perfect pitch is really elementary and relative on so many levels. (And she does sing frequently flat.)
It’s also a question of acoutics, another complex area.
Maria Callas used to take her high notes a bit sharp and this was correct in the words of my teacher Marco Rothmuller back in 1982. If we are talking about perfect octaves above the staff, this is what happens, a tendency towards sharpening.
Huh?
What I am saying is that pitch is not only a linear phenomenon. It has to do with the acoustic envelope of which certain formants are more pronounced in various instruments. This is a big area, the scope of which is not suited for this thread.
Some composers or musicians have an instinctive feel for what goes well together. Others have to be taught not to add the third of a chord in an already thick bass line.
There is the pitch-intensity effect in singing that makes a tone seem flat when there is air pressure. Probably the explanation is that overtones drag down the whole package of pitch perception even though technically it may be accurate.
How refreshing to see only 2 comments from Cabbage Juice, aka Zamyra Byrd, on a Jackie thread. Negative and ill-considered as always, but slightly less repetitive. As CJ runs out of steam, Jackie rockets to the stars. Yes, there is divine justice in the world.
How refreshing to see that Jackie fan’s are still in la-la-land! They must derive so much comfort from their grandiose fantasies!
The site from which this clip was taken has barely 20,000 hits of which less than 1% are likes. This alone should disqualify giving any attention to the girl when the up and coming moppets like Amira get on the average of 6 million hits!
The above is bad singing with an unpleasant manufactured sound on some of the tones, an unnatural vibrato on “bow” for instance.
All the stock gestures and fake melodrama can’t save it for those who have functioning ears.
Yes, CJ. Jackie Evancho so bad that PBS is recording a third Great Performances concert special with her on August 21st, 2014. What are they thinking?!
What may have worked a couple of years ago in the spirit of moppets astounding XGT judges and audiences, pouring their little hearts out as Amira W does now and a few others, is a different ballgame now.
The problem is marketing and how not to make the transition too drastic. Will the sultry adult timbre be sacrificed? Apparently in the above clip, not.
This is a liability because it drags down everything else with the unusual amount of breath pressure needed to make those sounds. And one cannot all of a sudden learn a completely different technique to sustain a live one hour concert in one month or even one year. Who knows? Maybe this is a vocal exception to the rules over the past 400 years or more likely the exception that proves them. I’m all ears!
cabbagejuice/zamybryd, you are right that anyone who thinks you the worlds most OTT obsessive anti-fan will allow herself to be limit to two inane post is in la la land. Well you showed them, your count now is what? 45 inane post are so no this blog. I am happy to help you out, replying to maybe 24 of you rants, and even pointing out some facts to your buddy, and junior anti-fan Alex.
JJ. in your calculations, you conveniently overlook that my comments here are conversations with at least 10 people, many of which are with AJ. You came here to stalk, insult and attack me, pure and simple, not the first time.
Norm I took the liberty of posting this article from PR Newswire, which you may know;
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/jackie-evancho-releases-new-album-awakening-on-september-23-267957531.html
Jackie Evancho Releases New Album Awakening On September 23
Featuring Classical Crossover Favorites, Popular Hits + Originals
Release Coincides With International Tour + New PBS Special
Share with LinkedIn
NEW YORK, July 21, 2014 /PRNewswire/ — Platinum-selling, 14-year-old vocal sensation Jackie Evancho will release her third studio album, Awakening, on September 23 coinciding with an international tour. Produced by Nick Patrick, Awakening is Evancho’s first album under her recent worldwide recording agreement with Sony Music Masterworks imprint Portrait. In August, she will film a new PBS Special which is set to air in December.
Awakening signals some new directions for Evancho. Without foregoing the beautiful and lush classical-crossover compositions for which Evancho has become famous, she also extends her stylistic reach with contemporary material on songs such as the haunting folk song “The Rains of Castamere” from HBO’s hit series Game of Thrones. She also takes a bigger step forward on her version of U2’s “With or Without You.” Moreover, Evancho sings several original songs including the anthem “Take Me There” and “Open Fields of Grace.”
“Some of these songs are more on the pop side, and have a little faster beat than the songs I usually sing – but it was really fun.”
She also tackles the ethereal ballad “Memories” by the Dutch band, Within Temptation, in addition to the popular classic “Think of Me” from Andrew Lloyd Webber’s Phantom of the Opera.
“That’s how it started for me,” says Evancho. “When I first saw the Phantom movie I was inspired by the way the actors sang and really wanted to try to sing like that too. Their passion must have got to me!”
Awakening’s classical standards include Caccini/Vavilov’s “Ave Maria” and Rachmaninoff’s “Vocalise.”
“I’d never sung Rachmaninoff’s ‘Vocalise’ before,” says Evancho. “It was fun for me because there aren’t any words to learn, so I could focus on the beauty of the music.”
Distinguishing Awakening from her previous albums, Evancho relays that there were “no limits” thematically or otherwise on the songs that she and Portrait placed on repertoire.
“Of course there are always going to be some classical pieces, but I wanted to reinvent the pop songs and make them my own,” she says. “The only thing that mattered was that the song spoke to me.”
She credits producer Patrick for his understanding of her goals on Awakening.
“We all wanted to find a balance that would present Jackie in all that she is as an artist,” says Patrick. “‘Vocalise’ is very challenging and ‘Ave Maria’ requires the singer to really take control for it to sound beautiful. She is able to do that, but also make the big transition from the classical songs to more contemporary songs like ‘With or Without You’ or ‘Memories.’ On this album, Jackie carries the listener with her quite seamlessly, naturally, convincingly, and believably. She’s a remarkable singer for someone so young, but she’d be no more remarkable if she were 30.”
As for the production of Awakening, Patrick strived to capture Evancho’s “emotional intensity and technique.”
“It was great to shape everything around that voice, lighting it up atmospherically without stepping on it arrangement-wise,” he says. “She has such an otherworldly quality of mystery, beauty, fantasy and wonderment, and we wanted everything to complement, not overpower, her voice.”
Indeed, Evancho and Patrick have succeeded in re-energizing the classical-crossover genre.
“I feel that my singing style has matured, and it’s easier for me to feel comfortable on stage,” says the admittedly shy Evancho, who lately has taken up painting and is also trying her hand at songwriting.
“I have a lot to write about because I have a lot for which to be thankful,” she says, looking ahead now to her forthcoming tour in support of Awakening.
“I’m excited about it,” she concludes. “Tours equal tour bus, and tour bus equals fun!”
Throughout the Summer Jackie is also doing a special promotion with the tween clothing stores Justice. She recorded a brand new song called “Go Time” which is available for download exclusively for free to Justice shoppers. She will also be featured in the Summer catazine as well as in stores on the video monitors.
About Jackie Evancho:
Evancho dazzled American television audiences at age 10 gaining global recognition with her stunning debut on NBC’s America’s Got Talent. She was immediately signed to Columbia Records where she released a string of successful recordings including O Holy Night, Dream With Me, Heavenly Christmas and Songs From The Silver Screen. She has since acted in Robert Redford’s The Company You Keep alongside Susan Sarandon, Shia LeBeouf and Nick Nolte, and performed as a special guest in Cirque du Soleil’s “One Night for One Drop” benefit at the Bellagio in Las Vegas. She also starred in the Fall 2012 GUESS Kids clothing campaign, and in June, she performed the classic film song “Over the Rainbow” at the prestigious Songwriters Hall of Fame induction ceremony. Evancho has also participated in the lighting of the National Christmas Tree in Washington, D.C., where she delighted President and Mrs. Obama. She performed before 100,000 people in Russia with opera stars Dmitri Hvorostovsky and Sumi Jo prior to the opening of the St. Petersburg Economic Forum, and has performed in Japan before the Royal Family at the Imperial Palace. Her first PBS special was one of the top pledge producing performances in PBS history. Her wide-ranging achievements caused Billboard to include her on its list of “music movers-and-shakers under the age of 21” in 2011 and 2012.
TRACK LISTING:
1 Think of Me
8 The Rains of Castamere
2 Your Love
9 Dormi Jesu
3 Je T’aime
10 Vocalise
4 Take Me There
11 With or Without You
5 Open Fields of Grace
12 Made to Dream
6 Ave Maria
7 Memories
Sony Music Masterworks comprises Masterworks, Sony Classical, OKeh, Portrait, Masterworks Broadway and Flying Buddha imprints. For email updates and information please visit http://www.SonyMasterworks.com.
First time after all these years to hear that Rachmaninoff’s “Vocalise” can be “fun”.
At the very least, the piece is pensive but more than that, it is tragic in my opinion like so much of his music. (Indeed, it requires control and not only splicing!)
The longing and nostalgia for his homeland as in the song, “Do Not Sing to Me Maiden” or the Prelude that one notable pianist felt its unwritten words were “Return” are recurring themes throughout his compositions. So it does pay to know a little music history as well…
But OK, if kids are also singing Nessun Dorma, so what?
And you still haven’t heard any such thing. What Jackie actually said was: “I’d never sung Rachmaninoff’s ‘Vocalise’ before, it was fun for me because there aren’t any words to learn, so I could focus on the beauty of the music.” So while you will undoubtedly force yourself through the pain of meeting you pre-conceptions when the CD is released, the rest of us will be enraptured in the magical beauty of the music. Whose lives will be enriched by the experience? Yours; or ours?
Oh, fun to learn because there aren’t any words as though there are no extra musical connotations either! Not too much thought is needed anyway as the idea is to copy whatever singer who already did the work of interpretation like Emmy Rossum in Think Of Me, or most probably Kathleen Battle in some of the other stated repertoire. I am reminded of Anna Moffo who excelled in singing Vocalise when she was fully formed and not before. In other words she also sang it in public, not putting bits and pieces together in a sound laboratory. And she didn’t imitate anyone else.
Cabbage Juice, we’ve heard it all from you before, ad nauseum. You should step back and take a look at yourself and the dull repetitive small list of obsessive and vitriolic comments you make over and over and over again – and have for years. Your posts are neither informative nor insightful (and are certainly not original) – they just make you look very sad and out of touch.
Not informative? Not if you don’t want to know that practically every item in the girl’s repertoire has a youtube counterpart starting from Phantom of the Opera, Aled Jones, C Church (where the Christmas and “Dream” ideas came from), Brightman, Westenra, Streisand, Battle, Dion, Enya, etc., and now Rossum.
Like Battle’s “Lovers”, “Think of Me” has the exact cadenza and the tiniest inflections of Emmy’s. At least Amira W and Connie Talbot have been honest enough to admit where they get their sources.
The difference between Patricia Janescova with her Once Upon a Time in the West and the above Vocalise, is that we see Patka standing on the stage expertly producing even, sustained melismas. This is vocal “control”, not a team manipulating the tracks and splicing machine. Music schools do not accept tapes for the same reason. But I have an open mind – let’s see it ALL done in public!
As Bonnie stated; Very sad. Now you actually accuse Jackie Evancho of not being real, but manufactured. I dare you to accept your challenge to that open mind you think you have. Go out in public. Attend a Jackie Evancho concert. Experience for yourself what the rest of us already know.
I have seen clips of recent live performances including the above and they all show the same unsolved vocal difficulties. If a singer can’t get through the whole phrase of Somewhere Over the Rainbow without having to take an audible breath right in the middle of it which spoils the flow, then how can the same singer try to convince that she can sustain the long difficult lines of Rachmaninoff?
But as I said, I am willing to hear a live uninterrupted performance of it.
I was doing a bit of historical research recently and ran across some comments from past critiques of a few rather well know artistic geniuses. I thought that this audience might find some of the comments rather juicy and interesting.
Below are partial quotes from those critiques on the following artists:
On Pablo Picasso – His paintings are no good because the arm gestures he uses when he is painting are such a distraction and, when he really concentrates on a section, his hand constantly waggles (a sure sign of bad technique which will certainly cause irreparable harm to his ability to paint over time).
On William Shakespeare – His words are mumbled and his phrasing is terrible, with breaks and breaths in all the wrong places. But no wonder, he’s just mimicking and copying other artists like that Chaucer fellow. And he has such nasty fans (which I am certain are made up of nothing but old farts) who don’t show any respect for my brilliant critiques.
On Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart – If he wasn’t such a cute little lad, no one would bother to listen to his performances/compositions. They would go hear one of the real musicians/composers who know what good technique is.
On Leonardo da Vinci – He ignores all time-honored methods of the great medieval painters. He should know that he is nobody until he spends a few decades in the atelier copying the works of the true masters. Only then should any of his works be seen in public. Who can stand the Mona Lisa anyway?
I also ran across one interesting comment from a modern critic that ties back to the historical ones mentioned above as follows:
On Jackie Evancho – Sitting in the audience and listening to her sublime performance was like experiencing the Mona Lisa for the first time. I was overwhelmed, with a sense of gratitude for being alive to witness an artist with such exquisite and timeless talent. I also realized that talent of such caliber in a person so young would drive some people into a fit of jealousy – pity for them.
Wow, a history lesson right out of Alice in Wonderland! No wonder, given the pitiful state of education these days!
Some prodigies, not all, have parents already in the profession. Picasso’s father was an artist and Leopold Mozart was a fine teacher who wrote on violin technique.
Today we can dispense with all that because there is youtube. Just stand in front of the computer screen at least 50 times and reproduce your favorite singer. Not hard for kids, there are plenty doing it these days and winning prizes on televised contests. The above just has an unpleasant sound and there are reasons that I will not go into now. For whomever can’t hear it, they are in la-la land anyway.
This comparing Jackie to the above talents is ridiculous. I challenge you to provide the sources for these quotes like any good historical researcher could do.
Right, in the same post there is “Who can stand the Mona Lisa anyway?” and later “her sublime performance was like experiencing the Mona Lisa for the first time”.
It is a pity that such anti-intellectualism is a big part of this package and appeals to those who want ot believe that talent does not have to be nurtured, that it just can appear like a “Star is Born” without any preparation. That notion by now unquestioned, thanks to movies, is already firmly embedded in popular culture:
“Just follow your dream and miracles do happen” without showing the work.
One doesn’t get to see the notebooks where Leopold corrects the harmony exercises of his son, or Salieri’s doing the same for Beethoven and Schubert.
Now the process of interpretation has been telescoped by the use of recorded videos and in turn making recordings. It’s like photographing pictures of the Mona Lisa and passing them off as genuine.
You guys really are so narrow that you don’t see that it’s a parody? CJ is right though about it being Alice in Wonderland material – it’s CJ’s own comments about Jackie applied to Picasso, Shakespeare, Mozart, and da Vinci. It captures years of CJ in one post. Nice job Jean!
Just one problem: Picasso, Shakespeare, Da Vinci and Mozart were not singers! This only proves the point of anti-intellectualism: “We’re ignorant and PROUD of it!”
CJ,
Don’t know if you realize this but you do sound like Jackie’s Salieri :-).
Salieri was an excellent musician, so much that Beethoven and Schubert studied with him.
As for those singers, mainly women, who have done Over the Rainbow, almost ALL of them do it better than the above. They actually sing it, not make a caricature out of it. The same goes for all the silly crooning of O Mio Babbino, Nessun Dorma, Ombra Mai Fu, Ave Maria, etc. with melodramatic gestures to distract from lack of real content.
Great behind-the-scenes look at Jackie’s recent video shoot. I’m not quite sure TOM is the song she will use but it could be. There are at least 12 songs from her new album that it could be, we’ll see when the final shoot is done and released;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s26_HQN8AM
“Think of Me” is a work in progress, yes? There are not a lot of long lines, if any, in fact speeding up towards the ends of stanzas preempting having to take frequent breaths that are very apparent in the preceding. Other singers who have done this piece do not allow themselves such luxuries. As usual, the text is barely intelligible. But this is not the last take, is it? Surely, she has a better crowning Bb for the end?
I guess we all hear what we want to hear. Frankly, I didn’t hear a lot of unnecessary breathing. Some maybe but not excessive. Gotta love that 2-octave shot at the end though right? She just flat NAILED it!!
It depends on the definition of “necessary”, like breathing just after “ombra” (mai fu) or after “over” (the rainbow). If the air runs out, well, it’s necessary!
One of the characteristics of good, not even great, singing (let alone “masterworks”) is the ability to sustain long lines.
Marchesi would have said, not doing the simple things right is not getting out of the first lesson, much less being credited with “requiring the singer to take control” as stated above.
The cadenza at the end is taken lock, stock and barrel from Emmy Rossum with all her inflections as well. However one can be sure that Rossum supported the high Bb at the end. I did not get that impression at all from Evancho. Occasional floated high notes may not ruin the cords but unsupported ones are voice killers.
CJ, You do realize Emmy’s voice was edited beyond comprehension? Listen to her do it live and one wonders how she was even hired. The piece was lowered and she had to do a generic cadenza because she wasn’t capable of doing any genuine coloratura or fioratura, (and lacked any emotion whatsoever) the scene in the movie totally changed the context of the piece were one is totally confused on how this was even thought to fit into the “Hannibal” scenes. Emmy never hit a Bb, anyways that’s supposed to be a C. Now, I’m a great fan of Emmy, her solo work and other movies are phenomenal, but, she just wasn’t ready for a role as demanding as Christine. Nor, do I think Jackie’s is, despite me being a relative fan on occasion (that technique ruins the whole thing for me, a shame, too. She has such a beautiful tone and timbre). I do see how Jackie is ‘mimicking’ Emmy, though.
And to anyone else reading this; This is just my honest, humble opinion. I do not wish to offend anyone. If I do, I’m dearly, genuinely, greatly sorry. Like what you like, love what you love! If you like Jackie like Jackie! If you like Emmy like Emmy! And, if you dislike them, that’s okay, too!
Whaat??? Just got an alert from a thread that is two years old! What was the discussion? Oh, right, Emmy Rossum who has had a brilliant, full career and just hitting 30. Anyone who has done as much as she has in that space of time from childhood is not to be sneezed at. Aspiring singers can really learn from her and as a matter of fact, one in particular has done her the honor of copying her exact inflections and cadenza from “Phantom”.
BREAKING NEWS!
For you Texas fans, Jackie has been scheduled to perform at the new Tobin Center in San Antonio. Tickets go on sale Aug. 15 for the Nov. 5 concert. I live in Tx. so I will attend!
Hopefully in Texas there will be better attendance than over the past weekend in two relatively small halls: Portsmouth, NH with less than 60%, even with reduced ticket prices and Lancaster, PA, around 68%.
Part of the problem may have been the expectation for new numbers from the much touted recording. Instead the same repertoire for more than two years now was served up.
CJ,
You must have missed the news about Chautauqua. Attendance was over 4000 🙂 … packed to the gills from what I heard. Surprised that you didn’t hear about it !
In Chatauqua the deal is that a day pass enables one to take in a concert together with attractions, much less expensive than buying tickets to the more formal halls. There are other arrangements such as children under 12 being free to attend. The atmosphere is quite informal with people sitting on bleachers. Anyone who didn’t get to hear the same repertoire for more than two years and those who just can’t get enough of it had their chance there.
Glad to know that you spent some time researching that particular forum regarding the attendance at Chatauqua. At that same forum, you couldn’t have failed to notice the lengthy discussion on why attendance numbers are low at some concerts and high at others not to mention the fact that she just concluded a concert tour that is over 2 years old. How many 14 year olds are out there doing a 2 year long tour over the same album singing classical crossover :-).
With all due respect, I don’t think the expectation was a less than optimal attendance, otherwise why bother? A danger in show business (or even politics) is you start to believe your fantasies. So serve up the same program for over two years because the public is still enthralled, not paying attention to how fickle and easily bored it is. The reality check of inflated ticket prices not drawing the crowds as before, is the reason for poor attendance in these halls.
But there is another problem starting to emerge, the lack of solidarity with fans who like or dislike forays into pop music, who prefer the kid voice or image over the adult one, etc., etc., meaning you can’t please everyone and trying to do so makes it worse and completely unmanageable.
The ONLY thing a singer can do is be true to his or her own voice and not manipulate it to please some people at the risk of alienating others. A sampler of something for everybody will do just that.
Looks like San Antonio is going big time in the Performing Arts!
http://therivardreport.com/inside-and-outside-tobin-center-aims-to-bring-performing-arts-to-the-whole-city/
Alex,
As someone else said, to each his own. I am like you are. I don’t like over half the sopranos that most moon over … so I don’t listen to them. However, Jackie sounds better than most sopranos I’ve heard including some very good ones. 🙂
Jean’s post is hilarious. The satirical comments on Picasso, Shakespeare, Mozart, and da Vinci are a virtual compendium of the ad nauseum comments CJ has made over and over again about Jackie. If CJ finds the post to be anti-intellectual, she is just commenting on herself.
You’re funny, too! And so is this version of Over the Rainbow! (I didn’t realize that was also a caricature!)
I am aware of Salieri’s accomplishments … that is the real Salieri …. I was referring to the one portrayed in Amadeus.
As far as ND and OMBC etc, I’ve already stated that I like Jackie’s version of those songs better than most divas. Matter of personal taste and choice. Technique is irrelevant to my listening pleasure though not dismissable. You base your listening pleasure on technique …. I base mine on the emotional impact.
CJ,
“But there is another problem starting to emerge, the lack of solidarity with fans who like or dislike forays into pop music, who prefer the kid voice or image over the adult one, etc., etc., meaning you can’t please everyone and trying to do so makes it worse and completely unmanageable. ”
You make it sound as if this was a unique problem to Jackie. Of course there will be disagreement among fans and probably more so in the next few years as Jackie goes thru her teen years. I’m sure she and her team will find a way to cope with it just as they coped with the skepticism that she won’t last beyond the 15 minutes of fame … That was four years ago :-). 4 Albums, 80+ concerts and with her 3rd PBS special coming up, at age 14 she’s still very much in the game … more so than most professionals.
Whether she sings POP or Classical or Popsical, is of little relevance at this point. Everyone’s focus is on her new upcoming album that promises to be a delight for most fans.
AJ, Just to let you know that I understand why you don’t like so-called operatic voices and can agree somewhat. I just stumbled onto poor little Amira W standing in between two hulking tenors trying to outdo one another in O Sole Mio of all things! She really had to hold her ground not to be blown away! Needless to say I thought it was a horrible idea.
If there is anything I can’t stand in singing, they are Alpha Males who think that belting out high notes is beautiful. For that reason I cringe to hear unwritten high C’s from tenors in Puccini operas including some of the best like DiStefano. (Puccini did know his business. The end of the 1st act in Boheme should be dreamy not a shot of an adrenalin high C by a showoff tenor.)
Singing opera is NOT about drowning out everyone else. I had a good teacher who disabused me of this idea when I was trying too hard. A better way to approach it is through the development of intensity which includes of all things the need to hold back and concentrating the tones instead. The latter carries over an orchestra not force of volume.
One of the markers of misplaced intensity is an unnatural vibrato. If you listen, you can hear it. In the abovementioned video, the last tenor had a wobble as wide as a swinging gate. The orchestra was loud enough but I heard it.
I understand your worry that pure voices might be changed into shrieking opera harridans. But that would not be good training. The idea is to become more oneself and not less, to increase the range of expression by developing good tools.
CJ,
This may be one of those rare occassions where we may be in agreement :-), though perhaps not from a techical standpoint (not my forte).
I am not a fan of Amira’s voice or music at this stage. She is very reminiscent of Aria Tesolin at that age though I believe Aria was much more accomplished than Amira. Amira has a voice that eventually might go the opera route with proper training. Thats not necessarily a bad thing from my perspective. I just don’t particularly like what I see right now with Amira. She is and sounds like a little girl singing difficult songs with great effort….. sort of a novelty act. Thats one thing that separates Jackie from most young singers. Jackie sings like an adult and convincingly sounds like one too to most people not to mention that she also sings with “apparent” ease. And she sounded that way when she was 10 years old.
On a side note, the one singer that was very impressive to a layman like me was Sophia Asgari who also competed in the same show with Amira but somehow got lost in the mad craze over Amira.
I am not against training and believe it plays a very important role not only in music but also any other discipline. I’m just not sure how much and how long of it is necessary in Jackie’s case. Like most fans, to me Jackie’s voice is a rarity. Training may provide a sound support structure for her voice but it may also drive out that uniqueness, timber and clarity of tone from her. That would be tantamount to a catastrope for most of the fans.
Training is good but training is not what got Jackie to where she is today or at least not enough of it. I believe that Jackie has her own personal training regimen that she hasn’t shared with the public and for good reason. I believe that it would not meet the strict requirements and approval of most voice coaches which may be one reason why it hasn’t been made public. But whatever she is doing, one thing is very clear to fans. She seems to be moving through puberty with her voice intact and (in most fans’ opinion) better than it was before.
What the future holds, who knows….your guess is as good as mine when it comes to Jackie!
You and a few others may like or even love that murky timbre but it comes at a price, maybe even a very high one to pay in the future. A couple years ago, Jackie was singing less in that contrived adult voice. In her Christmas music, the Shirley Temple-like presentation was just the way it should be for such an age. There were free ringing tones and an even line from bottom to top.
In melancholy repertoire or pieces done in that manner (question is WHY?) as in the above, it’s abundantly clear what’s going on even to non-professionals. There’s definitely a break in color from the lower range that should not be there, as demonstrated when she doesn’t sing like that. It’s as though this timbre is turned on for “extra expression” even if the music doesn’t call for it as in Ombra Mai Fu or O Mio Babbino. This would be bad enough if there weren’t the other problems attached to doing that such as unclear diction (which seems to be the case in Rains of Castamere) and lack of breath.
There is only a limit how much one can form the words when the larynx is being forced down. And don’t think this is unusual for a kid to discover such a trick. They are doing it all over the place on youtube and any voice teacher has students come in the door for their first lesson sounding artificially like one of their singing idols.
Even in good recordings a couple years ago there is scraping and trembling on the lower notes. This is unfortunate since one would like to have perfect exemplars to look back on. Sorry, but one cannot change the way the voice is put together. She is a high, light soprano, full stop. To have to sing repertoire too low for the voice is a very bad idea particularly in the developing stages. The same goes for the other end of the spectrum, Sonia at age 12 should not be singing Queen of the Night especially in public.
Maria Callas and Anna Moffo sang the role of Carmen but in recordings. Except for an occasional aria here and there out of one’s comfort zone for an already developed voice, this kind of manipulation should not be done by an untrained one.
CJ,
Re: All that technical mumbo jumbo !
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but most fans like me are non professionals and you might as well be talking to the pygmies in Papua, New Guinea for all the sense that your post makes.
Regardless of whether your post makes any sense or not, what exactly do you want to tell the fans and what exactly do you want them to do?
For four years, Jackie Evancho has held her fans in the palm of her hands (so to speak … figuratively speaking not literally), spellbound ! She continues to do so thru her music and her persona. What is there about her that fans should not be excited about or that fans may be deceived about. Enlighten us !! And in plain English if you please.
If you think the above Over the Rainbow is good (forget about great) then no amount of simplifying will help.
CJ,
To help you compare Somewhere Over the Rainbow to the original here is Jackie Evancho singing it …. acapella in her laundry room …. at age 9. Enjoy !
http://youtu.be/4DCUgDwDcsw
Exactly what I was saying, it was better and freer then without all the curlicues and added schmaltz as in the above.
About “True Believers” please consult the book by Eric Hoffer.
Blind belief in a cult (not the Bible) would explain some of the goofier reactions by fans to any perceived criticism. I remember how defensive my friend and her Scientologist buddies were back in the 70’s in Britain. They were reacting emotionally not rationally. In fact a rational argument would send them off the deep end as with Evancholists.
CJ,
My posts got posted out of order. The comparison of Jackie singing SOTR in her laundry room was supposed to be made to the original Judy Garland song. Not to Jackie’s snippet at the SongWriters Hall of Fame.
But to address your other comment about rational vs emotional response.
Fandom is much more about sentiment than it is about logic. That’s how it works for all artists regardless of genre otherwise there would be no fans. What logic does it make to buy a T-shirt with the picture of the artist that one is rarely ever going to wear …. yet fans do it all the time.
I never bought a T shirt with someone’s picture on it. I’ll leave this kind of fandom to adolescents. Beyond that it is not age-appropriate.
CJ,
The above is a snippet of the entire song and most fans like myself will tell you that its not enough to even be able to compare or determine how good it is or not.
One thing almost all of them will tell you is that her voice still sounds beautiful and better than any other 14 year old and most adult professionals.
Last but not least, the hardest thing to do is to convince a devout Christian that the Bible is not real :-)!
Same with a Jackie Evancho fan. Try telling any one of them that Jackie isn’t as good as they think she is. Who do you think they are going to believe …. their ears, the mass media, professionals in the music business …. or some annonymous person at an Internet forum.
CJ,
“I never bought a T shirt with someone’s picture on it. I’ll leave this kind of fandom to adolescents. Beyond that it is not age-appropriate. – See more at: https://slippedisc.com/2014/07/jackie-evancho-there-is-no-auto-tune-on-my-new-album/#sthash.euVkKwlL.dpuf
We weren’t talking about you. Its about what is a normal activity for fans of any artist.
Further to the discussion, wearing a picture of someone else’s young daughter on a tee shirt by men who are not related and considerably older is not just age-inappropriate, but plain inappropriate. Unlike with the Beatles or Elvis, the fans are generally not from her age group and wearing her tee shirts! This may very well be the fallout, even if unintended, of letting kids sound and look like women.
CJ,
Are you serious ?? You can’t be that out of touch with reality or that antiquated. Give it a rest :-).
Jackie is a celebrity. She happens to have a large fan base mostly of adults because she happens to sing an adult repertoire and sounds like an adult. In all other respects, her fans are no different than fans of other artists no matter how much you or a few others try to pretend that they are not.
She’s got zany fans who have waddled like ducks, sit in front row seats, give standing ovations, talk about her incessantly, collect pictures and other merchandise, pay hundreds if not thousands of dollars attending her concerts, follow her day to day activities …. sound familiar ???
So you have a JE t-shirt? How about a doll?
So you have a JE t-shirt? How about a doll?
CJ,
No I don’t have a T-shirt with her picture on it though I have one with her name on it. Its folded neatly next to the Jackie fan buttons, CDs, Tote bag, DVDs, poster, concert tickets (the ones I attended), fan pictures, golf cap with Jackie signature embroidery, etc. No doll yet but I wouldn’t count that out either 🙂 You can’t be a fan and not have a Jackie doll 🙂 Any red blooded fan knows that !
I may also come into possession of some other Jackie memorabilia that may be rather rare. I’m also looking for an autograph copy of PTAD though I certainly don’t have the thousands of dollars to spend on it and won’t. I think I have a few other items I left out but my family members tell me that my collection will soon rival that of the Elvis collection by one of my relatives. Time will tell.
Anyone past the age of 18 with all that paraphrenalia (totebag, golf cap woth embroidery!) having to do with a young girl, to me that is freaky indeed. Who said that this is not a carefully constructed product? Targeting such an audience also to me is freaky.
CJ,
Its no more freaky than following a young girl’s career for four years while adamantly denying any interest or pleasure in her accomplishments.
I will repeat my interest in this latest phenomenon of kid singers is strictly professional. If there are exceptions to the rules, isn’t there the need to investigate if we missed something over 400 years of formal singing theory?
If a child has an adult voice, is she an “outlier” as one person described it, totally outside the criteria? Not only that, these kids have been the pretext to slam opera snobs and show them what a child can do, obviating the need to study at all. Not a few insults were thrown my way and to others who had the temerity to suggest it didn’t fall from heaven or was not chanelling spirits.
I am not going to go into the physiological impossibility of the above for instance having a bonafide woman’s voice ahead of her time. Lowering the larynx is a trick a lot of kids stumbled on and they are rife on youtube. It does bug me that there has been so much mystification to the point of idol worship when there is a simple explanation.
CJ,
Your interest in the “latest phenomena” is far from professional. The “latest phenomena” is more than 4 years old since its inception and there have been several others who have also appeared on the scene including Amira. Yet your attention has not waned from Jackie.
Your need to investigate the exception to the 400 years of singing theory is a personal mission and rather an odd one. No opera singer, opera officianado, musician, manager, promoter of opera has ever in four years considered Jackie to be an opera singer or that she is a threat to the 400 years of opera theory. Even her own “uneducated fans” learned very quickly that she is not an opera singer and are usually among the first ones to correct anyone who says otherwise. So I’m not sure who it is that your are trying to prove your point to or what possible difference it will make even if you do make your point.
No professional singer, musician, composer has yet gone on record to denigrade opera except perhaps to say that they don’t like opera.
No multitude of fans have ever declared Jackie to be divine, possessed of supernatural powers, etc except as a compliment and as hyperbole.
Idol worship is very common in the music industry and not a bizarre and uncommon phenomena that is only linked to Jackie.
As far as vocal techniques go, except for a few, I haven’t seen anyone refute your arguments. In other words people aren’t challenging your arguments …. they simply don’t care enough about them to think any less of Jackie Evancho.
For fans, Jackie remains unique, gifted and the voice of a generation. For the industry professionals, she’s a gifted artist with incredible talent and untapped potential. For the critics, an easy target since she continues to grow her fan base and provides enough fodder for controversy. That controversy will only grow as she matures and her personal life becomes more public. So yes, at some point the critics will have a field day with her (its inevitable) but it won’t do much in terms of stopping her increasing popularity. IMHO !
You give CJ way too much credit AJ. Her obsession with Jackie is anything but professional and, as you can see, her commentary is compulsive and bizarre. The more you engage her, the more off-base her comments become.
Sheila,
CJ (and her aliases) and I go way back about 4 years. :-).
I usually view such discussions on forums as entertainment and try not to get too serious (though sometimes I do). There are a few “regulars” on Jackie forums that offer more entertainment than knowledge so its fun to engage them in a discussion at times. Sometimes the discussion shows precisely what you alluded to …. how off base a poster can get which in turn compromises their integrity or the integrity of what they claim.
I have never doubted the extent of CJ’s knowledge when it comes to vocal techniques. Its her ability to maintain a balanced perspective as a professional instructor, coach and teacher that is always in question. 🙂
Cabbagejuice do you have any ideal how many people are professions, working in the field of classical music?
Here is a question that is easier to answer.
How many of the professions in the field of music have been stalking a minor child for over 3 years? Trolling hundreds of youtube channels featuring Jackie Evancho, a minor child according to the laws of all 50 States, posting thousands of inane comments.
How many fly to this blog every time there is the mention of Jackie Evancho, to post the same inane comments for the hundredth time. How many have written way over 50,000 words on the topic of Jackie Evancho?
There is only one, that one is you cabbagejuice.
And there is nothing professional about it.
There are some like CJ who witness a level of extraordinary musical ability they cannot quite comprehend and deal with that experience in the only way they are able to understand. With CJ it manifests itself in irrelevant technical minutiae to mask her inability to comprehend or accept Jackie Evancho as truly beyond anyone she has ever experienced. There is that part inside CJ that compels her to listen to Jackie despite herself, and that compounds her frustration over the extraordinary musical ability she refuses to accept.
Stevie, please refer to the comments above, not by me, about “unmusical swells”, etc. The extraordinary ability you and some others are entralled with is a very finely honed practice of imitating youtube videos, admitted since the age of 8.
There is nothing wrong in it if 1) the sources are identified and 2) if a professional can curb the wrong directions a kid might be inclined to pursue, like artificially darkening her voice to produce an effect of sounding like an adult.
I wouldn’t say the girl is beyond anything I experienced. It happens often when students try to imitate their favorite singers and styles.
The extensive and complex preparations continue for tonight’s taping of Jackie’s third PBS Great Performances Special at the Longwood Gardens in Pennsylvania, highlighting her upcoming 5th CD release and world tour. Placing that in perspective makes the lamentations from such a sad detractor even more humorous.
Gosh, Jaybird, this accusation of stalking allegedly according to the laws of 50 states sounds so familiar! Do I have to cut and paste what I wrote you recently about rational criticism not being trolling or stalking?
You can wallow in your mush and gush, follow her to every concert, spend the livelong day on Jackie blogs and forums, collect like AJ paraphrenalia such as pictures, totebags, golf hats and t-shirts, and call ME a stalker?
I offer a rational explanation of what is really going on vocally, like lowering the larynx and pushing the sound into the resonators. Most of what I write is in response to those who question and want further explanations or defending myself as I am doing now.
CJ,
Who exactly is Jaybird??
You also made references to me and my paraphernalia and I take strong exception and umbrance to that because you forgot to mention the “doll”. :-).
True to your nature you fail to see the more sentimental and emotional side of music and are stuck with technical mumbo jumbo that most music fans don’t really give a hoot about :-). So the show goes on with you frantically brandishing the baton, oblivious to the snores of the audience behind your back.
Jaybird is the Knight in a White Horse saving young damsels.
The snores of what audience, the Association of Senior Citizens?
Did you hear Patka showing how Somewhere Over the Rainbow should be sung?
CJ,
I don’t think Jackie needs any knights in shining armor to rescue her 🙂 ! But that won’t stop fans from being the knights 🙂 Whats so wrong about that?
I think you are under the impression that the Association of Young Fans is paying heed to your arguments as opposed to the Association of Elderly Citizens. Good Luck ! You’re going to need it.
Did you hear Patka doing Dancing Queen (ABBA) ?
cabbagejuice/zamyrabyrd, KnightlyOnce is my online moniker from chess sites. I have been using it for nine or ten years, long before any of us had heard of Jackie.
CABBAGEJUICE SAYS:
August 20, 2014 at 7:59 pm
Jaybird is the Knight in a White Horse saving young damsels.
Do not know any Jaybird, and I have never seen a “Knight in a White Horse” or any other color horse. Must be a result of your OTT obsession.
CABBAGEJUICE SAYS:
August 20, 2014 at 7:59 pm
“Did you hear Patka showing how Somewhere Over the Rainbow should be sung?”
Sounds like she is coping from the video on youtube of Jackie singing it at age 8.
While we’re on the subject of Over the Rainbow here is an excellent performance by Patricia Janečková, aged 13, simple but effective (even if her native language is not English): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcbrEA7BwLM
CJ
Patka sings SOTR beautifully …. almost as good as Jackie’s acapella rendition at age 8-9 years old !
Let me copy and paste some of your comments for you cabbagejuice/zamyrabyrd. Here is one.
“Classical crossover becomes more and more a gimmick rather than anything serious in its own right.” is a direct quote from cabbagejuice/zamyrabyrd.
I post it to show the extent of cabbagejuice/zamyrabyrd’s personal bias against a whole gerne of music, which contribute to cabbagejuice/zamyrabyrd’s OTT obsessive attacks against Jackie Evancho.
Jay, you are so amusing, jumping on your horse backwards just like Dudley Do Right in the cartoons to rescue the Maiden in Distress.
Now you are going to defend the integrity of Classical Crossover with a flaming sword! If it weren’t for Classical, would there be something to cross over from?
I don’t regard caricatures of operatic singing to be regarded with any seriousness at all, as much as I would listen to Richard Clayderman, which I don’t.
cabbagejuice/zamyrabyrd, the only one I see in need of rescue is you. I, and others, have been telling you to seek professional help for a year now. You have failed to take our advice, and have continued your downhill slide at an ever increasing rate.
It looks like you are going to continue embarrassing yourself until the gentlemen in the white jackets come and drag you off to your rubber room.
Oh JJ, all one needs to do is stand back and wait for you goofy fans to run out of facts then watch you people have tantrums. I don’t know what video or recording Jackie was imitating at the age of 8 for Somewhere Over the Rainbow (as she couldn’t have learned it by channeling spirits) but vocally, given all the breath that is escaping from the sound, it is far from Janečková. Patka sings with control and an even line, no added melodrama or silly gestures. She doesn’t even pound out the initial leap but measures the breath to sustain the whole phrase until the end (not gulping for air in the middle).
Since you’re so concerned with psychology, why don’t you look up the word “projection” accusing others of what you yourself are doing:
“It looks like you are going to continue embarrassing yourself until the gentlemen in the white jackets come and drag you off to your rubber room.”
Keep it up, you continue to be entertaining as a comedy act! You make my day!
Here is another direct quote from cabbagejuice/zamyrabyrd,
“If the TE will not be honest enough to admit it, then it is the job of others like me to inform the public. .”
That is cabbagejucice/zamyrabyrd mission statement. She reminds me of Don Quixote battling wind mills. In her OTT obsessive mind’s eye, I am sure she believes she has a purpose. She thinks it is her duty to save the world from the evil “TE” and Jackie Evancho.
This direct quote of cabbagejuice/zamyrabyrd in reply to a comment Mike Miller had posted in the comment section of a youtube video of Patrícia Janečková, is what cabbagejuice/zamyrabyrd was ranting about in my post above,
“So why doesn’t her team come out and honestly admit that the above for instance has been copied from Dion (or Streisand, Battle, Church, Brightman, Jones, etc.)? Precisely because the aura of genius (a little girl upending the whole world of music) would be indeed be tarnished as people are not aware of the VAST extent of the copying. I was not either and gave her credit for a certain knack for phrasing and indeed she is talented in a way that many children are, although she is not a kid anymore. I withdraw that credit after seeing her get away with it time and again and after all the insults and put-downs made to serious musicians who were supposed to grovel before this phenomenon.”
Gosh, JJ, thanks for reprinting my comments. They sure do make a lot of sense!
cabbagejuice/zamyrabyrd, I guess you mean they make sense to OTT obsessives, such as yourself.
Here is another quote from you cabbagejuice/zamyrabyrd
CABBAGEJUICE SAYS:
October 17, 2013 at 5:16 pm
Why don’t they all leave her alone and let her have a normal life without all those prying eyes and obsessive fans?
– See more at: https://slippedisc.com/2013/10/just-in-jackie-evancho-moves-to-sony-masterworks/#sthash.lYZU7aEQ.dpuf
So the fans need to leave her alone to your prying eyes and OTT obsessive rants.
cabbagejuice/zamyrabyrd you continue to insist your comments make sense, so explain this comment of yours. You were of course just taking a cheap shot at Jackie, but you are aware that the VAST MAJORITY of singers use a microphone.
Everyone is knows of your bias against classical crossover, but this stupid comment seems to show your bias includes all music other than opera. Do you also rant against opera singers who use a mike in concert settings?
One more thing, I will be at Longwood Gardens tonight to watch Jackie making her 3rd solo PBS Great Performances Special. She will be performing a song we have all been longing to hear, Rachmaninoff ‘s Vocalise.
CABBAGEJUICE SAYS:
October 27, 2013 at 3:08 pm
@AJ Singing with a mike is more of a crutch than anything else. Instead of having to develop the supporting muscles that take pressure off the cords, it encourages a certain kind of complacency, that of course will not come to the rescue when attmepting Rachmaninoff or Delibes.
– See more at: https://slippedisc.com/2013/10/just-in-jackie-evancho-moves-to-sony-masterworks/#sthash.f1yW5bmA.dpuf
That would be incredible progress from the above two months ago to sing the long lines of the Vocalise in public without breaths after every other note.
“Think of Me”, although recorded, had plenty of breathing that other singers would not permit themselves such luxuries.
Demosthenes, the Greek orator, used to practice speaking by the sea. Of course in those days there were no microphones but the point I was making is to train without one to become muscularly strong and not complacent.
You’re funny, JJ, have time to look up my posts and paste them here. Shouldn’t you be packing your fan t-shirt, totebag and golf cap?
cabbagejuice/zamyrabyrd there are the rare obsessive fans that follow sport team, sport players, and other celebrities. But the new breed of anti-fans much more disturbed in general. While it is normal for fans to be a little OTT, the same is not true of a person why is not a fan.
I know of no anti-fan, of anyone, who even comes close to your level of OTT obsessive behavior. On the first 6 NL blogs discussing Jackie alone, you have written well in excess of 50,000 words.
And that 50,000 words, written on 6 NL’s blogs, is but a drop in the bucket when compared to the mountain of inane comments you have posted on hundreds of youtube channels showing videos of Jackie singing. Then there are post you have made about Jackie on other youtube channels, and website throughout the internet.
That is completely irrational, abnormal, and very disturbing behavior.
If I write about Demonsthenes, Judy Garland, Maria Callas or answering questions about vocal technique, these comments are NOT about Jackie, not exactly off topic, but related to the subject at hand, and not 50,000 words either.
I will tell you what is obsessive, people like you who can’t just enjoy a singer or performance and leave it at that but become so personally and emotionally involved that any criticism is like a knife in your hearts. Get over it. You people are not important, in fact more of an embarrassment, Stage Door Johnnies who have to make life meaningful for themselves by glomming onto famous personalities. In this case it is really ridiculous, an inverted fan phenomenon, elderly men who act like the former Elvis and Beetle groupies around young girls – something really wrong with this.
cabbagejuice/zamyrabyrd, the comments I am referring to are those that are written in relation to Jackie, and they are demonstrably in excess of 50,000 words that would never been posted if you were not the OTT obsessive you are.
You are not a fan. Nothing wrong or abnormal about that, there are many who are not fans.
I am a fan, and there is nothing abnormal or obsessive about a fan wanting to be able to enjoy a video of Jackie on youtube without the OTT obsessive rants of anti-fan disrupting their enjoyment.
As a fan I activity search for new videos of Jackie, but I can not remember the last time I found a new video of Jackie that you had not already soiled with a string of inane comments.
That is not the behavior of a professional !!!
Name me one other professional in music, are ANY field, that has continually, over the last 3 years, posted thousands of negative comments about ANY ARTIST.
This year alone, you have posted more negative comments about Jackie, than any active music critic, writing for a major newspaper, have posted both negative and positive, about all the artist they have covered this year.
The fact that you are completely unaware of the excesses in your behavior is alarming.
CABBAGEJUICE SAYS:
August 21, 2014 at 1:46 pm
“You’re funny, JJ, have time to look up my posts and paste them here.” – See more at: https://slippedisc.com/2014/07/jackie-evancho-there-is-no-auto-tune-on-my-new-album/?cerror=incorrect-captcha-sol&replytocom=37154#respond
cabbagejuice/zamyrabyrd, they are your comments I copied and pasted here, I do not see them as funny, but as pitiful.
Obsessive is as obsessive does. Are you hoping for a gold star from TeamE for your efforts? Please go and claim it at the stage door in Longwood!
CABBAGEJUICE SAYS:
August 21, 2014 at 2:52 pm
Obsessive is as obsessive does. Are you hoping for a gold star from TeamE for your efforts?
– See more at: https://slippedisc.com/2014/07/jackie-evancho-there-is-no-auto-tune-on-my-new-album/?replytocom=37161#respond
cabbagejuice/zamyrabyrd since you are the poster woman for obsessives everywhere, I will take your word for ‘obsessive is as obsessive does’. I will ask you the same question, what are you hoping for? Maybe the title Dame cabbagejuice Supreme Savior of Opera, Classical Music, And All Things Holy?
JJ, you ignore the fact the plenty of people agree with me, in particular here. So who is jousting windmills defending the honor of CC on a classical music blog? What are you trying to prove? Except being a one man comedy act. No one cares what you are writing here, while making a spectacle of yourself.
cabbagejuice/zamyrabyrd, Though it is a fact that ‘plenty’ of people agree in part or completely, it does not negate the fact ‘plenty’ more do not. Nor does it mitigate your excessive behavior.
I am not the one who opened this article on Jackie Evancho, a classical crossover artist, on this ‘classical blog’.
You have never seen be on any of NL’s blogs that were not about Jackie.
I am a fan so I always check out every article about her.
But you are not a fan of her’s, and you have stated many times that you have no interest in her.
But here you are, the number one, in volume, contributor to every NL blog on Jackie.
And there you are on nearly every one of Jackie’s youtube videos.
You are so blind to your condition, that even when it is spelled out to you, in very clear and simple words, you are still in the dark.
Well, there are none so blind as those who refuse to see.
Oh Lord, are you boring and wildly incorrect. I’ll give you some homework, look up the articles on Issac Stern where I made some remarks. Not every article I read I comment on but mainly those that are in my sphere of interest like singing and piano. You people say that opera is dying but please read the recent article about a half million in Austria having viewed Rosenkavalier.
You still didn’t answer what you are trying to prove. NO ONE cares, not here anyway. We could put it all to a vote here who thinks the above is good singing. But most people do not care. Get over it. I don’t care what you say. Obsessive are those with hardly anything but Jackie videos on their web pages and running from one concert to the other.
CABBAGEJUICE SAYS:
August 21, 2014 at 6:42 pm
Oh Lord, are you boring and wildly incorrect.
– See more at: https://slippedisc.com/2014/07/jackie-evancho-there-is-no-auto-tune-on-my-new-album/?replytocom=37197#respond
cabbagejuice/zamyrabyrd, I am not normally boring, but with your OTT obsessive behavior being the only subject of all my comments here, what else could I be?
But I am completely accurate in my description of your OTT obsessive behavior. And the fact that you can not see the truth is a very bad sign.
CABBAGEJUICE says;
I’ll give you some homework, look up the articles on Issac Stern where I made some remarks. Not every article I read I comment on but mainly those that are in my sphere of interest like singing and piano. You people say that opera is dying but please read the recent article about a half million in Austria having viewed Rosenkavalier.
cabbagejuice/zamyrabyrd, you will not give me anything but the giggles. I have no interest in anything you have to say, just like 99.999999% of the people of the world. I and my fellow Jackie fans just want you to keep your inane comments off Jackie videos and site. Just be more like the true professionals in the classical field, or at least like the millions the sane individuals who are not Jackie fans, and not obsess over her.
CABBAGEJUCIE says;
You still didn’t answer what you are trying to prove. NO ONE cares, not here anyway. We could put it all to a vote here who thinks the above is good singing. But most people do not care. Get over it. I don’t care what you say. Obsessive are those with hardly anything but Jackie videos on their web pages and running from one concert to the other.
cabbagejuice/zamyrabyrd, I have answered that question from you before. But I will answer it again for you since you are too obsessed with Jackie to think straight, or understand simple statements, or remember anything. Pay close attention, here is the answer to your question.
I AM NOT TRYING TO PROVE ANYTHING.
ONE MORE TIME… I AM NOT TRYING TO PROVE ANYTHING.
I am not at all interested what you have to say about Jackie.
What I want is for you to get professional help with your OTT obsession so you can stop stalking all of Jackie’s videos and stop plastering them with you flood of asinine comments, so I can go back to enjoying her singing without have to deal with your disruptive presents.
Fans can be obsessive and be perfectly normal.
Non-fans / Anti-fans are not normal. And their obsessive behavior is very abnormal and not healthy, and more than a little disturbing.
GET HELP.
The errors in grammar in the above comment is because I was rushing the comment to head out to Jackie’s concert.
Gotta go !
In receiving an answer to a comment, there appears in my inbox or in google+ a notice. Therefore, I am responding most of the time now to provocations by you, who incidentally followed me to sites where I have praised others like Teresa Stratas and Patricia J, because you can’t stand it. That’s textbook obsession.
“I and my fellow Jackie fans just want you to keep your inane comments off Jackie videos and site.” This is not a Jackie site and really none of your business if I make carefully considered professional assessments. The owner of the blog or channel can decide if this is “stalking” as you say. If the person in question doesn’t complain, then it isn’t.
“What I want is for you to get professional help with your OTT obsession so you can stop stalking all of Jackie’s videos and stop plastering them with you flood of asinine comments, so I can go back to enjoying her singing without have to deal with your disruptive presents.” How many times to do you have to write this to make a point?
“Fans can be obsessive and be perfectly normal.” Oh, so you admit you are obsessive. That’s a good start. You are the one who needs HELP,
“Non-fans / Anti-fans are not normal.” What a weird statement. Well, I am neither. I don’t care about her or neither about you.
Please remember when you point a finger at someone, three are pointing back at ya!
cabbagejuice/zamyrabyrd, of the 122 post on the blog, 43 are yours. That’s just over 1/3 of all post here. The title of this article is “JACKIE EVANCHO: THERE IS NO AUTO-TUNE ON MY NEW ALBUM”.
Sounds like an super interesting article, all but irresistible! LOL
Not very likely to drag in anyone with no interest at all in Jackie.
Even loyal fans like me would at best give it a quick look, maybe.
But the world’s most OTT obsessive anti-fan is completely helpless, she must fly to the name Jackie Evancho, like a common moth to flame.
I really do feel sorry for you cabbagejuice/zamybyrd.
Your inane remarks plastered all over most of Jackie’s youtube videos are a major disruption to my enjoyment of those videos.
But you are are a fellow human being. You know what they say, hate the sin not the sinner.
My only reason for continually engaging you is in an effort to get you to stop posting your rants on Jackie’s videos and articles. I hoped to convince you that you were wasting your time doing so. Or maybe make you as sick of seeing my rants to you, as I am sick of seeing your rants about Jackie. Or to get you to see you actually do have a problem that you really do need professional
help with.
I posted to those 5 or 6 non-Jackie sites hoping you might get an ideal of how wrong it is for you to plague Jackie’s sites.
Nothing I have done as had the desired effect.
Please, as one person to another, I am asking you to please stay off Jackie’s videos.
You have said you have no interest in her.
You have stated you have answered the final question you had.
There must be something more worthy of your time than someone you have no interest in.
NL posted an article yesterday on the murder of a very respected orchestra violinist. You could offer some comforting words there.
There are any number of better ways to spend your time, if you have no interest in this young girl.
And JJ, Mr.”Knight”, 26 are yours! Now if to go back to other articles one would have to add up “Jay Jackson” as well to tally up the real number of your posts. You rant about one thing – fie on critics! -whereas my posts differ in content.
You provoked me however, to answer more than I would and even are doing the same to Alex. I can answer that question you posed to him if the reason Jackie gets publicity because of the cute factor. An overwhelming YES!
And yet another reason because a lot of people have cottonwool between their ears. These are the same people who think Jenkins or Brightman are the cat’s meow.
There is NO way the above can be considered good singing but neither was the big bash in St. Petersburg. A kid who sounds like a woman these days has great drawing power. A lot of other moppets have jumped on the bandwagon.
It doesn’t make what they are doing great or even good or even healthy for them.
You are NOT going to stop me from posting where I like. It is up to the owner of the site to decide. Just get over the fact that there will be criticism and you can’t do anything about it.
More bad news for you cabbagejuice/zamybyrd. Better sit down.
There is no gentle way to say this so I am going to give it to you straight.
Jackie’s new PBS Great Performance Special is more amazing than her Dream With Me In Concert PBS Great Performances Special. If I had not seen it with my own eyes I would not have believed it would be possible for even Jackie to have made such a huge improvement in such a short period of time. Sept 23 can’t come soon enough! Got to hear Vocalise again, and again. And the beauty of With Or Without You is unreal. She owns My Immortal, and to play the piano for the first time in public during a concert for the recording of a PBS Great Performance Special that will be national televised, what courage. As David Forster said, she is fearless. Really they need to come up with a better name for her new PBS Special, Great is not nearly good enought! OMG
Can’t wait to hear the Vocalise. It should be a miracle to sing LONG lines and not chopped up ones like the above. The question is where was she hiding this ability all this time? The thing is if you think the Over the Rainbow is anywhere near good, then your judgement cannot be trusted.
CJ,
Good to know you are anxious to hear Vocalise. I am too but our reasons will be different. You are listening for technical flaws which as we all know you will find. No surprise there :-).
I, like most of her fans if not all, am looking for the beauty and power that we know her voice is capable of.
Something tells me we are both going to be very happy :-). You can celebrate that her rendition is sub par and we’ll all celebrate how she just rendered one of the most riveting and emotionally moving pieces into a work of art that only she could possibly have done. :-).
Yep … there are some happy times ahead for all of us …. even you !
AJ, If the girl has to take a breath between Om-bra (Mai Fu), not to mention the above where NO professional gasps between Over () the Rainbow, how in tarnation is it possible to sustain the long lines of Rachmaninoff’s Vocalise? That is the whole point of usual vocalises, exercises without words, to develop breath power. What a joke to take an artistic rendering of a vocalise and defeat the purpose for what it was written?
There are two issues here: sustaining and measuring out the air and being able to do it with full support, not a floaty top that doesn’t exactly join to the middle and lower range. To manage all that is the supreme difficulty that I don’t think will be accomplished given what I heard from recent recordings.
“Think of Me” done in a studio also has plenty of breathing and I don’t hear any real sustained support. To compare, “Nessun Dorma” is a monumental challenge for seasoned tenors. But little kids can come along and chirp it out in a SUPERFICIAL manner. Does it make them equal to Pavarotti and Domingo? Certainly not!
CJ,
Would you mind telling me why I or most fans who are like me, would even care whether she is holding her breath or not. Why in the world would I give a hoot about sustained breath or no breath when whatever she sings, sounds like what people have often described as heavenly. Please explain to me why I should care and lets see if it changes the way I think about Jackie and her music.
Okay….I’m ready … Go for it !
AJ, you can like what you want but that is not going to make it objectively good. It’s funny to imagine Rachmaninoff’s “Vocalise” without the even sostenuto that Anna Moffo for instance brought to it. There are plenty of kids who can float high notes and with nice timbre, too. That doesn’t make them ready to sing this piece.
The only young singer I can imagine doing it is Patricia J and maybe her teacher has wisely postponed it for the time being. She is like the tortoise in the race with the little hares who are racing to the spotlight. Patka is patiently building up her technique while the other little rabbits are dissipating theirs, spending it all too soon.
cabbagejuice/zamybyrd, my review of a song is of course based on my opinions, but my judgement of the song is not hindered by overpowering bias, so is more trustworthy than yours.
Due to a wardrobe malfunction during Vocalise we were blessed with experiencing Vocalise second time.
Jackie sang it flawlessly both times!
Do not fret, the wardrobe malfunction happened to one of the ballet dancers accompanying Jackie’s performance of Vocalise, not to Jackie.
CJ,
‘Objectively good’ …… in whose opinion ? That in of itself is pretty subjective.
Patka is patiently building up her technique … thats good. She needs to. She’s an opera singer and wont have much of a career if she doesnt.
Jackie is NOT an opera singer and doesnt spend hours on end floating high notes every day.
By the time Patka is ready to conquer the music world, Jackie will have earned enough to retire … before she’s 21 !.
This is really funny to hear from someone who barely heard of Rachmaninoff let alone Vocalise to be able to say it was sung “flawlessly”.
What do you have to compare it to? If you think those awful renditions of O Mio Babbino and Ombra Mai Fu are great with all those frequent breaths, then your judgement is worth nothing. The WHOLE point of the Vocalise is sustained long lines fully supported. I never saw ANY evidence of that coming from her so far.
If you didn’t see my post above, here is the answer to your allegations about the frequency of my comments: “JJ, in your calculations, you conveniently overlook that my comments here are conversations with at least 10 people, many of which are with AJ. You came here to stalk, insult and attack me, pure and simple, not the first time.”
Oh puleeze, those who post here in defending Jackie are the same fans who go from forum to blog seeking out criticism and slamming it. Otherwise, most of them would not read or bother with other articles on classical music. If put to a vote who thinks the above is good or bad singing, the vast majority, not the Evancholists, would agree it is far from it.
You wrote: ‘the difference between me and you, other that the fact I am right and you are wrong, is I know my post directed at you are a waste of my time.”
You talk about right and wrong then conclude your post with ‘it’s just a matter of taste, anyway’. Fine, but there ARE objective standards in singing as there are in dancing and instrumental playing. You are wrong if you think they don’t apply.
cabbagejuice/zamyrabyrd, the difference between me and you, other that the fact I am right and you are wrong, is I know my post directed at you are a waste of my time. As were my replies to Alex.
I am never going to enlighten either of you. I know that. I understand that. I have not problem with that. I do not care how many disagree with me.
You say there will always be critics, I say there will always be critics. So we agree on one thing.
So what? The thing is critics are just people, and voice their opinions, and guess what, 10 different critics could view the same thing, and voice 10 different opinions.
You went to Alex’s defence because he is all you have here.
Alex said, If she wasn’t cute, she wouldn’t get any attention at all. – See more at: https://slippedisc.com/2014/07/jackie-evancho-there-is-no-auto-tune-on-my-new-album/#comment-37280
Do you want to go on the record here for all to see that you agree with his comment as stated? Are you that far gone.
You say it is because they have cottonwool between their ears. Well, if asked, they may say the same about you. You go on to say they are the same people who think Jenkins or Brightman are the cat’s meow. Does your crystal ball tell you that? As for myself I am not a fan of either. But I have no issues with either of them and do enjoy some of their music. You picked Jenkins and Brightman because they are two others you do not like, in at least part, because of your bias against classical crossover. Again it makes no difference who these imagined others may are may not like.
You stated that there are plenty of others here that agree with you. I was being kind and agreed with you. But the fact is, there are not plenty of people here that agree with you. There are not many people here at all.
Which does not matter in the least, one way or the other. On any subject, including Jackie, there will be people who will be pro, con, undecided, indifferent, not interested, and some who would be angry if you bother to ask their opinion.
I said I have continually engaged you(we can use provoked) in a wasted effort to get you to act like a normal, logical, sane adult. I failed because you are none of those three.
You know all about provoking because as that is all trolling anti-fans have to live for. You search out Jackie videos and sites to post your vile rants to disrupt the fans enjoyment of the site and to provoke them into extended exchange of comments to further disrupt the site.
You have repeated the same rants over and over and over gain. Who are you trying to convince, yourself? You are your only hope none of Jackie’s fans impressed with your nonsense.
One fan stated it very clearly and simply enough so that even you should be able to understand why you are never, ever going to change the way even one fan feels about Jackie…
NIGEL9113 SAYS:
November 15, 2013 at 9:04 am
AJ, couldn’t agree more. It is absolutely a matter of personal taste. There are very few sounds that are as pleasing to my ear as Jackie’s voice. The sound of my newborn daughter’s first cry, my children laughing, bacon sizzling on a cold morning. These are completely personal to me so a technical analysis is pointless. These sounds are associated with happiness, and this is what Jackie brings to many people by sharing her talent.
Others don’t get it. This is fine but why spend hours on a forum discussing something you don’t like? I’d rather have teeth extracted.
For me no other singer comes close to sizzling bacon 🙂
Rant all you want. You have never changed the opinion of even one Jackie fan. The your will be even more laughed at in the very near future.
Come Sept 10 Jackie will be a Special Guest on AGT.
Then Sept 23 when her new album comes out there will be so many more of us.
And when Dec. rolls around and Jackie has been on touring with her new album for a while and the new PBS Great Performances Special starts to air on TV nationwide, you will be looking for a place to hide.
Errors of joy above. Consider them sympathy gift to you cabbagrjuice/zamybryd.
This is really funny to hear from someone who barely heard of Rachmaninoff let alone Vocalise to be able to say it was sung “flawlessly”.
What do you have to compare it to? – See more at: https://slippedisc.com/2014/07/jackie-evancho-there-is-no-auto-tune-on-my-new-album/?replytocom=37334#respond
cabbagejuice/zamybyrd, What I know of Rachmaninoff might surprise you. I am sure you know more about him, since you have spent many years as a serious student of classical music, and especially with your major in piano.
I am comparing Jackie’s rendition with the many performances of Vocalise I have heard and seen, but most recently(a little over two years) the 5 artist whose voices I felt most closely compared to Jackie’s.
I have no doubt that your OTT obsessive fantasies of “breaths between every other syllable” is still active in that bias mind’s eye, so won’t even need to see Jackie’ Vocalise. You can just copy and past all your insane rants from Jackie’s renditions of O Mio Babbino and Ombra Mai Fu. Which is fine because everyone else listening to Jackie singing them can hear that there are no breaths being taken were you say there are.
I do not ignore that a few of your comments are of other topics. Nor do I ignore that many of your comments are in reply to those commenting on your comments.
It is you who is ignoring the essential fact here.
You have made it clear, in no uncertain terms, that not only do you have no interest in classical crossover music, but that you do not even credit it as a valid genre of music.
By your own mouth you have claimed several times that you “no longer have any interest at all in Jackie Evancho”.
The title of this article is, “Jackie Evancho: There is no auto-tune on my new album”.
You are here posting on an article about the person you say you have NO INTEREST IN AT ALL, who performs as an artist in a genre of music YOU HAVE NO INTEREST IN.
You try to claim you are pulled in here because you need to reply to comments made to or about you, but that is a lie you tell yourself. The FACT IS YOU HAD POSTED TWO POST HERE BEFORE Bonnie made a comment that mentioned you but was not a reply to either of your comments, nor did it address you. Other Jackie fans were already here at the time you had made your comments but they did not mention you nor make comments about you. I do not know of the history between you and Bonnie that made her feel the need to post her mildly negative comment about you, BUT I do know that your reply was highly improper. If you would have limited your remark to her that would be understandable. But no you were here waiting for this EXCUSE to Lash Out At Jackie’s Fans And At JACKIE !
Here is Bonnie’s comment,
BONNIE SAYS:
July 15, 2014 at 9:20 pm
“How refreshing to see only 2 comments from Cabbage Juice, aka Zamyra Byrd, on a Jackie thread. Negative and ill-considered as always, but slightly less repetitive. As CJ runs out of steam, Jackie rockets to the stars. Yes, there is divine justice in the world.”
Here is your OTT obsessive anti-fan reply,
CABBAGEJUICE SAYS:
July 17, 2014 at 8:10 am
“How refreshing to see that Jackie fan’s are still in la-la-land! They must derive so much comfort from their grandiose fantasies!
The site from which this clip was taken has barely 20,000 hits of which less than 1% are likes. This alone should disqualify giving any attention to the girl when the up and coming moppets like Amira get on the average of 6 million hits!
The above is bad singing with an unpleasant manufactured sound on some of the tones, an unnatural vibrato on “bow” for instance.
All the stock gestures and fake melodrama can’t save it for those who have functioning ears.”
Which brings us back to the ESSENTIAL FACT YOU ARE IGNORING.
The only thing pulling you to NL’s articles on Jackie, and to the Jackie youtube videos, is your OTT obsessive anti-fan irrelistable impulsive need to disrupt the enjoyment of Jackie’s fans, and attempt to draw them into acknowledging you by their replies.
If you do not go onto Jackie sites, no Jackie fan will acknowledge you at all.
Trouble is, until you get some professional help, it is only going to get worse.
JJJ, you are the troll here making a spectacle of yourself so it is better not to feed you. No one cares about your cutting and pasting my comments to prove a point that no one also couldn’t care less about, so save youself the trouble.
BTW if you can’t hear injudicious, labored breaths, unmusical swells, melodrama where it is not called for, a break between registers, etc., surely your listening is VERY undeveloped, even more reason not to take you seriously AT ALL.
CABBAGEJUICE SAYS:
August 24, 2014 at 11:49 am
“JJJ, you are the troll here…”
– See more at: https://slippedisc.com/2014/07/jackie-evancho-there-is-no-auto-tune-on-my-new-album/?replytocom=37384#respond
No cabbagejuice/zamybyrd, I am the fan here on a blog article about the Classical Crossover vocal artist Jackie Evancho, of whom I am a big fan. You are the sick OTT obsessive anti-fan troll who has stated time and again that you have NO INTEREST in Jackie Evancho, or the music genre of Classical Crossover, who only comes to sites and videos of Jackie Evancho to do what trolls do…post attacks against the artist and their fans to disrupt the fans enjoyment of the site or video, and to bait them into confronting you to further disrupt the site for the other fans.
You have ZERO credibility here. And your insane behavior towards this wonderful child over the last three years, plus your endless attacks against her parents, management, and fandom, as well as your incessant demeaning of a whole genre of music has caused even those in your own community to abandon you like rats from a sinking ship.
BTW claiming you hear flaws that do not exist, is not going to fool the millions of listeners with perfectly good hearing. All it does is prove one of two things, you’re either a liar, or your personal bias against classical crossover in general and Jackie Evancho and all who support her, causes you to hear what you want to hear.
CC, JJ, is a derivative genre, if you want to call it a genre, formerly Classic Lite. I would just call it caricature. Otherwise “Popular Music” would do just fine as it did in the past.
If you want we could put that and your statement to a vote: “You have ZERO credibility here”. I got plenty of compliments along the way even from the most protective JE fans!
You know, you could just walk on by when you find criticism on a Classical Music blog that is not to your liking!
CJ,
Whether people think CC is caricature or not, its a heck of a lot pleasing to the ear than most opera …. and I like opera (not all). Actually more fun is made of opera than CC. As a matter of fact CC is often confused with Opera. So Opera suffers both ways. Gets ridiculed even when its not opera :-).
Credibility is relative. Your credibility regarding knowledge of voice and opera is very high but very low when it comes to balanced criticism or objectivity.
BTW, most people that listen to Jackie can’t hear any labored breaths, or unmusical swells (whatever they are).
AJ, as for CC, think of Brightman, Jenkins, Shapplin, think dripping melodrama, think a lot of props, candles, smoke, lights (to distract from the singing), frequent gown changes, think of screechy high notes (Il Divo), heavy emoting that are the Readers’ Digest of Opera, in a word, caricature.
As for objectivity, YOU don’t decide if I am that or not. Unmusical swells are pressing on individual notes to give them as it were “more expression” but only disturbs the line, like little waves. Good singers learn to take their breaths quietly and surely do not present pieces with unsolved difficulties.
Sorry, but I don’t know ANY good singer who chops up the first phrase of Somewhere Over () the Rainbow, the same with O Mio Babbino Ca()ro and Ombra () Mai Fu.
(I was actually learning a Brahms song with Marco Rothmuller many years ago and had the problem of sustaining the first line without breathing. He said do it 50 times until you get it. Maybe the first 49 won’t work, but you may succeed on the 50th!)
CJ,
When you talk about caricature, the first image that comes to mind is the big fat woman in a horned helmet shrieking at the top of her lungs and an equally overweight gentleman standing next to her shrieking even louder …. with the caption “Opera’s Finest Hour”. That’s how I remember my first encounter with Opera and thats how cartoonists had a field day with that genre.:-)
As for objectivity, I hate to break the bad news, but I DO decide whether you are objective or not. Face it. All those opposed to your view point decide for themselves.
The good singers you know are not necessarily the good singers that everyone else will listen to. Because not everyone really cares about missed breaths and floating notes and what not. People tend to enjoy the sound produced rather than the method in which it was produced. Try to process that thought if you can.
Don’t really know who Marco Rothmuller but did you get it after the 50th attempt? Can we see a sample of it?
AJ, sure if you get your opera from cartoons or Tintin, it will be a helmeted lady or Castafiore’s Emeralds. But you and others still conflate opera with classical singing. There is Lieder, Oratorio and anything that requires good technique. You can also throw in there Musical Theatre, and there is no reason why Lite Classical cannot have good singing. It’s just when it takes itself too seriously it becomes a caricature. Alfred Drake was an excellent tenor who did musicals in the 40’s and 50’s. Few can come up to his standards today, the same for Julie Andrews. (Sorry about all this name drop!)
As for objective, this happens to be my profession and there are objective standards as for examinations and auditions. So you do NOT decide because you simply do NOT know what they are!
To learn and practice difficult piano passages I might have played some of them hundreds of times over the years, so why is it surprising to hear that in singing it is just as much work or even more?
CABBAGEJUICE SAYS:
August 24, 2014 at 6:17 pm
CC, JJ, is a derivative genre, if you want to call it a genre, formerly Classic Lite. I would just call it caricature. Otherwise “Popular Music” would do just fine as it did in the past.
– See more at: https://slippedisc.com/2014/07/jackie-evancho-there-is-no-auto-tune-on-my-new-album/?replytocom=37411#respond
cabbagejuice/zamybyrd, your pontification of CC as being a derivative genre may make it true in your fantasy realm, but in the real world it does not. When it comes to naming the genres of music, you and I can rename some or all of the genres what ever we would like, but the rest of the world would not recognize our names for the for the genres, so go ahead and refer to CC as caricature. It is not going to rise anyone’s opinion of the value of any of your other inane comments.
During this last year most of your comments have fallen way short of being coherent.
CABBAGEJUICE SAYS:
August 24, 2014 at 6:17 pm
“…If you want we could put that and your statement to a vote: “You have ZERO credibility here”. I got plenty of compliments along the way even from the most protective JE fans!…
Three years ago, or even two, you still, for the most part, had control over your mental faculties and were able to hide the bias that tainted your otherwise well schooled comments. And of course there are always some people on every side of any issue. But even back then when it came to Jackie Evancho, your comments would receive ten against for every one in agreement.
In within the last two the margin against you has grown exponentially, so that today the vote would be 100,000 plus against, for each one in agreement with you(and I am being magnanimous towards you).
CABBAGEJUICE SAYS:
August 24, 2014 at 6:17 pm
“You know, you could just walk on by when you find criticism on a Classical Music blog that is not to your liking!”
cabbagejuice/zamybyrd, with the exception of those few(4 or 5) youtube sites I went to to post “copy and paste” quotes of your comments, I do not visit classical music sites. So I do not ever see the criticism on those sites.
We are on Norman Lebrecht Slipped Disc Blog and the subject of this article is Jackie Evancho, a Classical Crossover Vocal Artist. True NL post articles on this blog almost daily that are about classical music, you will never see me comment on any of them.
But I did go through sixty(thats 60) of his most recent articles on classical music and I did not notice EVEN ONE COMMENT POSTED BY YOU CABBAGEJUICE/ZAMYBYRD.
But let you have posted many, many comments on every one of NL’s articles about Jackie Evancho, a classical-crossover artist you claim to have No Interest in!!! How very professional of you. ROTFLOL
Let me paraphrase this comment of yours”You know, you could just walk on by when you find criticism on a Classical Music blog that is not to your liking!”
You know, you could just walk on by when you find an article or video anywhere about Jackie Evancho!
I am just kidding you, we both know the OTT obsessive anti-fan troll in you will not let that happen!
CABBAGEJUICE SAYS:
August 24, 2014 at 11:49 am
“JJJ, you are the troll here…”
– See more at: https://slippedisc.com/2014/07/jackie-evancho-there-is-no-auto-tune-on-my-new-album/?cerror=captcha-timeout#respond
cabbagejuice Why do none of your replies ever answer any question asked of you.
This should be an easy question for anyone to answer.
Why did you waste even one second of your time clicking on this article about the classical crossover singer Jackie Evancho?
I’ll answer the quest first. Read my answer 50 times. Then maybe you will be able to copy it. 😉
This article is about Jackie Evancho, so since I am a big fan of Jackie Evancho I came here to learn what was being said about her new classical crossover album.
Jay Jackson, you are so amusing and flattering as well to follow me all over the internet: “cabbagejuice, with the exception of those few (4 or 5) youtube sites I went to to post “copy and paste” quotes of your comments, I do not visit classical music sites…I did go through sixty (thats 60) of his (NL’s) most recent articles on classical music and I did not notice EVEN ONE COMMENT POSTED BY YOU”.
Everytime there is feedback on an article that I myself commented on, as the ones on Issac Stern I get a notification, so it is logical that I open it. If it is an open running discussion or provocative as your posts are, then a response is expected. If you came here to find out about JE’s album, why are you spending all that time and energy in stalking me? You do not think I will respond in kind?
I don’t have to cut and paste what other critics said about you nutty fans, that it really isn’t enough for you to wallow in everything connected to a young girl, there is something that triggers a deeper ugly anger for any perceived slight. So you have to attack the messengers of bad news. It is not now so much the frequency of your rants but their bulk showing WHO really is an obsessive.
CABBAGEJUICE SAYS:
August 25, 2014 at 5:36 am
“Everytime there is feedback on an article that I myself commented on, as the ones on Issac Stern I get a notification, so it is logical that I open it. If it is an open running discussion or provocative as your posts are, then a response is expected.”
– See more at: https://slippedisc.com/2014/07/jackie-evancho-there-is-no-auto-tune-on-my-new-album/?cerror=captcha-timeout&replytocom=37436#respond
cabbagejuce/zamybyrd, I did not ask you why you reply to comments on threads you had posted to, I asked you WHY DID YOU WASTE ONE SECOND OF YOUR TIME CLICKING ONTO NL’S ARTICLE OF THE CLASSICAL CROSSOVER SINGER JACKIE EVANCHO?
But instead of answering the simple direct question you were ask, you try some sleight of hand misdirection, to avoid the obvious truths your answer to that question exposes. Well your simple-minded trick did not work, you are a skilled liar and musician, but you are not a magician.
And the lie you substituted in place of an answer to my question is not up to your normal standards. It is too easily shown to be a lie.
No one pulled you into this article, you were here and had even made two comments before anyone mentioned you. You did not come in response to any “notification” in your email, you did not come here to respond to “an open running discussion or provocative” by me, nor any other. Hell you were here commenting more than two weeks before I discovered the article. So all that garbage about you only being here to reply to comments directed at you is just that GARBAGE.
You made a free choice to open and comment on this article.
The subject of the article is Jackie Evancho a CC artist.
So this article is about a person you have repeatedly stated you have no interested in, who sings classical crossover, a genre of music you demean and mock constantly.
Given the facts any normal person would understandably think it an odd choice for you to make.
NL post many articles daily that do cover topics that are right up your stated alleys of interest. But you ignore them and go onto an article about a person you have no interest in, who performs in a genre of music you look down on. That is extremely abnormal behavior.
Then you make up lies to try to hide your abnormal behavior, “I am pulled into the discussion”, “I am only replying to notification in my email box”, etc., etc.
CJ,
“You can also throw in there Musical Theatre, and there is no reason why Lite Classical cannot have good singing. It’s just when it takes itself too seriously it becomes a caricature.”
That is precisely the problem with Opera when it takes itself too seriously. I want to listen to some opera but do I really want to know what goes into what I am hearing. No I don’t.
One of the things I wish you would keep in mind is that this is not your classroom and the participants aren’t your students. You’re trying to sell a steak to someone whose thirsty for a cold beer. :-). People want to listen to music … not get a lecture on how it should be produced and why it isn’t good enough.
If your teacher was asked how you did as a student, he probably would have said “she got it before the 50th time” based on what you said earlier.
David Foster was asked about Jackie and he said, “I tell her once and she gets it. I ask her to give me something and she gives me even better. The only person who could do that was Whitney Houston” .
This from a 16 time grammy award winning producer who has not only worked with legends in the music industry but is himself becoming a legend.
I’m a Jackie fan. Thats all I need to know about the singing prodigy who can move masses to tears in almost any culture, society or country. That speaks more to her talent than a few missed breaths and notes that no one notices and cares even less.
Don’t flatter yourself, AJ, I am not trying to sell you anything. But I do know about what is connected to my profession. Otherwise I would not be hired to teach in music institutions. This goes for how children and adults learn, as places like those are living laboratories.
It’s interesting and even funny at times when demonstrating something and making a mistake, the kids imitate that as well, since they learn holistically. Prodigies of musical instruments usually do not have a lot of individuality because they learn mainly by imitating their teachers. I try to have them think for themselves even from early stages, though. This is not generally the Russian system (which BTW I did comment on a previous article about an abusive Russian teacher). They demonstrate and the students MUST copy them.
Consider what it means to have a whole panorama of performances on the internet now that one can access with the click of a mouse!
All a kid would have to do is stand in front of the screen 50x to imitate Kathleen Battle, Streisand, Enya,Westenra, Brightman, Church, Jones, Rossum, etc. And the results are practictally note for note, gesture for gesture, inflection down to the tiniest details. This is not standing alone in a room and practicing something 50x to pull an interpretation out of yourself. Yes, I heard what DF said about getting it right the first time. Sure, if the piece has already been imprinted from countless exposures to it done by some other singer.
CJ,
The blog is not about you teaching the unwashed masses on how kids and adults learn. Its about Jackie Evancho.
Are you sure that Russian teacher isn’t you because I can’t help but visualize you in that role based on the last four years of your diatribe about practise and how a young student should NEVER be allowed to sing certain arias etc etc etc. That sounds very much like the Russian tacher you were describing.
How many pieces did you imitate throughout your career?
You obviously miss most of the points I am making so will not bother to try to explain. However, one thing you and others can understand no matter how obtuse, even if you don’t want to believe it, most of Jackie’s repertoire has been copied from other singers. At least Amira W admitted she “learned opera from youtube”.
Vocal repertoire is different from hacking it on the piano because the very instrument is at risk in straining for high and sustained notes. 99% of serious vocal training all over the world is conservative in choosing repertoire for young voices.
CABBAGEJUICE SAYS:
August 25, 2014 at 6:58 am
“You obviously miss most of the points I am making so will not bother to try to explain. However, one thing you and others can understand no matter how obtuse, even if you don’t want to believe it, most of Jackie’s repertoire has been copied from other singers.”
– See more at: https://slippedisc.com/2014/07/jackie-evancho-there-is-no-auto-tune-on-my-new-album/?replytocom=37440#respond
NEWS FLASH FOR cabbagejuice/zamybyrd,
Jackie Evancho is a Classical Crossover artist, they do covers.
And please do not bore me with your whole crazy rant on Jackie’s renditions being carbon copies of dozens of great vocalist. I. and everyone else, have heard it more times than the number of singers you list that Jackie has copied. We still say it is BS, and will always be BS no matter how many times you post your rant.
cabbagejuice/zamybyrd, neither I, nor anyone is missing any of your ‘points’ you have repeated constantly over the last three years, we are ignoring them because to us they are completely irrelevant. And yes we are well aware that you disagree and believe they are relevant. You can, and most likely will, continue to repeat the same points, over and over and over, since that is what OTT obsessives do. And three years from now we will all be ignoring them because to us they are irrelevant, and they will remain irrelevant to us when you are no longer with us.
cabbagejuice/zamybyrd, as I have stated earlier, we have not missed any of your points, but are in fact ignoring them because to us they are irrelevant, and will remain irrelevant to us after you are gone. You are also irrelevant to us, as we are to you.
cabbagejuice/zamybyrd, You know, you could just walk on by when you find an article or video anywhere about Jackie Evancho!
I am just kidding you.
We both know the you can not.
The OTT obsessive anti-fan troll in you will not let you!
JJ, what do you want, thunderous applause from the readers of this site or fire and brimstone to fall from heaven on my head? Sorry, none of it will happen. You keep repeating yourself like a parrot, the very definition of obsession, but my posts are generally different and informative.
This was my first here: “Exactly, Judy Garland sings this song, not croons or jazzes it up, like so many others who want to gild the lily. But more than that, you don’t feel she is singing it, it comes out so naturally! That is real art and MUCH more difficult to do than employing cheap theatrics.”
The next had to do about pitch. Singing and teaching young people happen to be my profession so I have an interest in others making music. When it is claimed that they are exceptions to the rules, they don’t need to be taught, then it is incumbent on me to find out if this is the case. When they are not and in fact, proving the rules, or copying youtube videos, I don’t mind pointing it out. This is a help to those who feel that something may be wrong but can’t put it into words since they don’t know the technical terms.
I also believe that credit is due ONLY when it is due. Reality checks are good all around even for a performer who thinks and says on the above video, “I am a very big perfectionist” when she is far from it.
But put simply, it is my business, not yours, if and when I comment on a site or blog. Get over it – none of YOUR concern even if you imagine yourself to be a Knight of Team E defending the honor of Classical Crossover. I imagine they regard you and other Stage Door Johnnies as more of an embarrassment.
cabbagejuice your complete post is no more than a smoke screen. I am not the reason you are here, nor are any of the other people who are here.
You have no students here, and you are not teaching anyone anything, other than how to be an OTT obsessive anti-fan troll.
Going by you definition of obsession -repeating yourself like a parrot, that is you to a tee.
Pick any comment you have posted on this article, we can find the exact comment on dozens of other sites.
The only thing that pulled you to this article was your google search for Jackie Evancho, the same thing that leads you to her videos.
Sure you repeat over and over and over again that you have no interest in Jackie, and that you are finished with her. I believe you wish you could make it so.
But your obsession is in control, and it cares only for all things associated to Jackie.
It does not have time to waste on Classical music.
You must find it a site about Jackie. It needs Jackie to breath, to live. Search, search, find Jackie, post rants, search find more Jackie sites, must post rants every site. Hurry, hurry, search, search, you are missing some, find them, find them, must post rants on all.
Yes the mission of an OTT obsessive anti-fan troll is never done.
CABBAGEJUICE SAYS:
August 25, 2014 at 2:56 pm
This was my first here: “Exactly, Judy Garland sings this song, not croons or jazzes it up, like so many others who want to gild the lily. But more than that, you don’t feel she is singing it, it comes out so naturally! That is real art and MUCH more difficult to do than employing cheap theatrics.”
– See more at: https://slippedisc.com/2014/07/jackie-evancho-there-is-no-auto-tune-on-my-new-album/#comment-37478
cabbagejuice/zamybyrd, I did not ask you what was your first post was here. I asked you why you are here on this article about Jackie.
JJ, I don’t care to answer you anymore. It is a waste of my time and your posts are a waste of space. You wrote: “I asked you why you are here on this article about Jackie.” And I answer quite succinctly: NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!!
CABBAGEJUICE SAYS:
August 26, 2014 at 5:18 am
JJ, I don’t care to answer you anymore. It is a waste of my time and your posts are a waste of space. You wrote: “I asked you why you are here on this article about Jackie.” And I answer quite succinctly: NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!!
– See more at: https://slippedisc.com/2014/07/jackie-evancho-there-is-no-auto-tune-on-my-new-album/?replytocom=37515#respond
Thats good cabbagejuice/zamybyrd. I am glad you are finally seeing the light. Your comments about Jackie are a waste of time and space. Being completely IRRELEVANT to those on the articles and videos of Jackie.
No you have no say in what is or is not my business at any time.
As a fan of Jackie Evancho I have every right to be on any website she is the subject of. And not only do I have a right to be here it is very normal for fans to search for and read and comment on articles about the artist they are a fan of.
What is not normal and sick is the behavior of OTT obsessive anti-fans, a serious and growing problem on the internet today. So serious that world governments are writing new laws to try and regulate anti-fans sick and disruptive behavior of stalking websites and videos on the internet of individuals they are anti-fans of to post irrelevant and demeaning comments to disturb the normal enjoyment of those site by the fans of that individual.
That is why I ask you what are you doing on a Jackie Evancho article.
You have stated many times that you are not a fan of Jackie Evancho.
You have stated many times that you have No Interest in Jackie Evancho.
But you stalk sites about Jackie Evancho and post many IRRELEVANT comments attempting to disturb the normal enjoyment of those sites by Jackie Evancho fans.
Now your behavior is not only abnormal, it is also illegal.
CJ,
I think what you fail to understand is that its irrelevant who she is copying. What she presents, the end product, is unique to her and for the fans. To every song she sings, for most of us, she puts her own unique twist to it so that it sounds nothing like what someone else may have sung. And its totally irrrelevant what the rigours of training demand. We are NOT interested in the process but the end product which is the music she produces (copied or otherwise).
Your insistence that Jackie and her team admit and acknowledge that she is copying other artists is one of the most ludicrous things I’ve ever heard.
Show me an artist that said “By the way, I want you all to know that I am copying so and so artist”.
Jackie has said in the past that she gets her inspiration from different artists; Sarah B, Andrea Bocelli, Lady Gaga, Josh Grobin etc and she has personally met three of the four I mentioned. What more do you want from her ? And when I say you I mean you. Because the listening public at large doesn’t really want anything else but to hear more of her music.
Maybe you can help me understand how all the other great Diva’s learned their material without copying anyone else. And please show me where each Diva announces to the world that she is copying so and so artist when she performs or releases a new album.
AJ, learning from someone is NOT the same as copying down to the tiniest inflections. You’re missing the point of “interpretation”. You mentioned Divas. If they are, they sound different from one another.
Emmy Rossum does not sound like Sarah Brightman and they don’t have the same notes, lengths of phrases, etc.
However, Jackie’s “Think of Me” takes the same cadenza from Rossum, the same type of staccato, the same lengths of notes and says incredibly: “my style has matured”! The only thing different is Rossum’s high note at the end is supported and Jackie speeds up in the song itself where she cannot keep the breath for the ends of sections.
You might think that interpretation is not work, to take a blank score and fill it out. Kathleen Battle’s “Lovers” is an example of a personalized take on it and little JE comes along and copies it down to the last detail. It takes a lot of nerve to do that and not give credit. Moreover in the beginning fans were going berzerk over how she didn’t need to be schooled up to and including channeling the angels.
Hogwash!
CABBAGEJUICE SAYS:
August 26, 2014 at 5:15 am
“…However, Jackie’s “Think of Me” takes the same cadenza from Rossum, the same type of staccato, the same lengths of notes and says incredibly: “my style has matured”! The only thing different is Rossum’s high note at the end is supported and Jackie speeds up in the song itself where she cannot keep the breath for the ends of sections.”
– See more at: https://slippedisc.com/2014/07/jackie-evancho-there-is-no-auto-tune-on-my-new-album/?replytocom=37514#respond
I had asked you to please spare us this BS rant. Heard it many times from you. Still BS. Nothing has changed.
Here are videos of Emmy and Jackie singing “Think of Me”. You are saying Jackie speeds up in the song itself where she cannot keep the breath for the ends of sections. You constantly post comments about the imagined breaths your OTT obsessive mind’s eye sees and hears that no one else with 20/20 vision and perfect hearing can see or hear.
Please point out the sections were Jackie speeds up the song. But since both videos have the duration of the renditions being exactly the same time, 2min40sec, the show where Jackie slows down to keep her rendition the same duration as Emmy’s.
Emmy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SMb_PPRcFo
Jackie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR7K35GL0xo
BTW Jackie is a young 9 in the video.
CJ,
You have got to be kidding me ! Seriously have your ears examined! There is not a single industry professional in the music business who has ever said that
Jackie has copied her songs from the original down to the last detail.
What you will find constantly is how she is described as someone who adds her own special touch to any song she sings. Again and again fans, and music professionals have said that she can take a song and make it her own.
There isn’t a song Jackie has sung that people can say she sounds exactly like such an such person singing the same song.
Jackie sounds better singing Battle’s song “Lovers” than Battle does herself. And I’m not the only one saying that.
I hope that you aren’t preaching to your students that Jackie Evancho is copying and mimicing songs to the tinest detail without a professional teacher. Because the question people are going to ask is if she can do this and sound this good then why do we need a professional teacher like you !
Just because YOU can’t hear how similar the originals and the copies are doesn’t negate the fact that a whole slew of singers have been imitated. I don’t have the time nor the patience like Jay Jackson to search up and copy out posts by others on this blog or elsewhere but if you want, you can look up Janey’s comment to the effect that originality is not one of the girl’s characteristics.
I think it is the height of impudence to say that a copy is better than the original in the case of Battle’s where I am sure she labored hard to arrive at that interpretation.
And please don’t think that young people are lining up to sound like Evancho. They don’t even bother to go to her concerts. That type of music done in a particularly melancholic manner does not appeal to them.
CABBAGEJUICE SAYS:
August 26, 2014 at 6:03 am
Just because YOU can’t hear how similar the originals and the copies are doesn’t negate the fact that a whole slew of singers have been imitated. I don’t have the time nor the patience like Jay Jackson to search up and copy out posts by others on this blog or elsewhere but if you want, you can look up Janey’s comment to the effect that originality is not one of the girl’s characteristics.
– See more at: https://slippedisc.com/2014/07/jackie-evancho-there-is-no-auto-tune-on-my-new-album/?replytocom=37517#respond
cabbagejuice/zamybyrd, A.J. and I have both told you that Jackie sings covers, of course the same song sung with the same music is going to sound somewhat alike, but Jackie’s renditions are unique.
You have time to post 60 comments here on this article while at the same time posting rants on dozen of youtube video of Jackie, but you claim not to have time to copy and paste others comments here or on other blogs? But of course that is another lie, since you have done so here, coping and pasting comments I had posted here.
Janey’s comments are no more relevant than yours to us. No one is saying you are the only person in the world who criticises Jackie, and with nearly 7 billion people in the world some are bound to agree with you, like Janey, on some points. But it is still irrelevant to us, because for every Janey and you, there are 100,000’s who disagree with you. YOU ARE IRRELEVANT to millions of fans, and every year the number of people for whom YOU ARE IRRELEVANT grows by the millions.
And for many of them, Jackie’s rendition is the best in their opinions, and nothing you can ever say, no matter how often you repeat it is going to change anyone’s mind.
CJ,
You avoided addressing my point that not a single music professional has ever claimed that Jackie is copying anyone in detail nor did you refute that most professionals have stated that Jackie adds her own unique touch to any song she sings.
Janey is not a music professional but a music enthusiast. And she is very much biased against Jackie as you are not to mention that she is an opera fan and not a CC fan.
I speak nothing less than what many fans and professionals have said. Jackie’s copy is better than the original. If you can produce expert evidence to the contrary please do so.
I’m not insinutating that young people are lining up to sing like Evancho. Most that listen to her are in too much awe to even attempt what she does. I am talking about those young people that line up at your door …. what do you tell them ?
CABBAGEJUICE SAYS:
August 26, 2014 at 5:15 am
“…However, Jackie’s “Think of Me” takes the same cadenza from Rossum, the same type of staccato, the same lengths of notes and says incredibly: “my style has matured”! The only thing different is Rossum’s high note at the end is supported and Jackie speeds up in the song itself where she cannot keep the breath for the ends of sections.”
– See more at: https://slippedisc.com/2014/07/jackie-evancho-there-is-no-auto-tune-on-my-new-album/?replytocom=37514#respond
I had asked you to please spare us this BS rant. Heard it many times from you. Still BS. Nothing has changed.
Here are videos of Emmy and Jackie singing “Think of Me”. You are saying Jackie speeds up in the song itself where she cannot keep the breath for the ends of sections. You constantly post comments about the imagined breaths your OTT obsessive mind’s eye sees and hears that no one else with 20/20 vision and perfect hearing can see or hear.
Please point out the sections were Jackie speeds up the song. But since both videos have the duration of the renditions being exactly the same time, 2min40sec, the show where Jackie slows down to keep her rendition the same duration as Emmy’s.
Emmy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SMb_PPRcFo
Jackie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR7K35GL0xo
BTW Jackie is a young 9 in the video.
JJ, I shouldn’t dignify your post with an answer but I was referring to the most recent “Think of Me” that 5 years later should be an improvement. I would not criticise a cute kid obviously imitating a video but obviously without the orchestral accompaniment, the timing is different. Of course, Rossum sings with full support that I don’t hear with the early or late TOM.
You are bring up numbers. Amira W is getting millions of hits while you are talking 100,000’s, There were only about 40,000 hits on youtube of the above Somewhere over the Rainbow and plenty were not impressed by it.
Your replies do not dignify anything.
I picked this earlier video because it is one in which Jackie had not yet improved her breath support, which should make much more easier for you to point out to us where Jackie is struggling. If you can get your foot out of your mouth that is.
The relevant numbers here are the 2 minutes and 40 seconds the singing of Think of Me lasted. Show the speeded up sections made needed by lack of Jackie’s breath support. Then show where she slowed down to keep the times exactly the same.
And while you are at it please explain how a 9 year old is able to manage all those manipulations.
Are you trying to prove my point by having exact timings or refute it? So it came out the same in that instance! Why don’t you put a sock in it? (your brain)
CABBAGEJUICE SAYS:
August 26, 2014 at 11:04 am
Are you trying to prove my point by having exact timings or refute it? So it came out the same in that instance! Why don’t you put a sock in it? (your brain)
– See more at: https://slippedisc.com/2014/07/jackie-evancho-there-is-no-auto-tune-on-my-new-album/?replytocom=37553#respond
cabbagejuice/zamybyrd answering your last comment first, I do not want to put a sock in my brain because I can see the effect putting a sock in your brain had on you.
Take the first part of your comment here as an example of the effect of having a sock were a brain should be.
You initial claim was, “Jackie speeds up in the song itself where she cannot keep the breath for the ends of sections.”
– See more at: https://slippedisc.com/2014/07/jackie-evancho-there-is-no-auto-tune-on-my-new-album/?replytocom=37553#respondJackie needed to
So if she speeds up the song the running time of the two song would NOT BE THE SAME.
If you have any friends left, find one who does not have a sock for a brain to explain it to you.
Seriously cabbagejuice, look at the level your obsession has dragged you down to. Just a year ago you were still able to repeat your rants without making comments that make you sound like a complete imbecile.
Really you need to find some way to get over this obsession on Jackie and her fans or by this time next year you will be just a babbling buffoon.
JJJ, to paraphrase Forrest Gump: “Obsessive is what obsessive does”.
I rest my case!
Wow, CabbageJuice! As ugly a name as you picked yourself, you’ve managed to spew garbage even more ugly and your obsession with hating someone who has moved millions with her lyrical interpretations, all the while showing yourself to be a shill for Amira, even though you don’t believe her to be of any good on her own.
How can I say that other than that the proof is in your inability to see her as getting anywhere on her own, but rather the need you feel to pull a Tonya Harding attack on a singer who has never harmed you or anyone you know.
Incredible what self-important and hateful hearts will drive people to say and do.
The sun never sets on the JE Fan Empire. There will be always someone monitoring the sites even if they are past the sell-by date as this one is.
Both Amira and Jackie would do themselves a big favor by getting proper training NOW. They might stop making money for the present (sorry families!) but doing so would be saving their voices for decades to come.
Judging by last night’s AGT performance, the need is CRITICAL, RED ALERT LEVEL!!!
CABBAGEJUICE SAYS:
August 26, 2014 at 1:34 pm
JJJ, to paraphrase Forrest Gump: “Obsessive is what obsessive does”.
I rest my case!
– See more at: https://slippedisc.com/2014/07/jackie-evancho-there-is-no-auto-tune-on-my-new-album/?replytocom=37573#respond
cabbagejuice no need to paraphrase Forrest Gump, there is no better example of obsessive than your incessant repetition of the same irrelevant rants on hundreds of website during the last three years.
A much more fitting paraphrase is;
Obsessive is as cabbagejuice does.
You do not have a case, you have a sickness.
Norman you should end this thread it has ran it’s course. There is just your friend cabbagejuice remaining embarrassing herself making uncharacteristic comments that are clearly foolish.
CJ,
“The sun never sets on the JE Fan Empire…..”
The sun hasn’t set on Jackie Evancho. As a matter of fact the sun seems to be shining even more brightly on her as of last night.:)
After 4 years of repeating the same mantra, you of course realize that no one is listening to your advise.
Amira who ????????
AJ, here is the deal. The big appearance at AGT may have gotten a rise from the judges who know squat about singing but there is even the suspicion of damage with all the breathiness that was coming through.
It was done in the same style (if you can call it that) she sings Somewhere Over the Rainbow, Ombra Mai Phooey, jerking her head while covering her chin with the microphone to try to cover her stiff jaw, gulping for air breathing after after other note, same meaningless arm movements, etc.
What would it have cost her to stand quietly, breathe low, open her mouth and keep it that way, making the words come alive (like Patty does) and not garble them, also without screaming out the high note?
The price is getting rid of that manufactured sultry sound and maybe having a better one instead. A choice was made to exploit a short term financially profitable goal over a long term use of her voice for the rest of her life.
I think it is despicable and shudder to think this will all be repeated for the coming heavy schedule of full length concerts.
CJ,
Same stuff you’ve been saying for four years which is why no one bothers to listen to anything you have to say and quite frankly no one cares.
*Yawn*
Anything new to add …. otherwise this is getting pretty boring !
The mush and gush idolatry of you fans is boring. Why can’t you just listen and enjoy, not worship the ground she walks on and spending every waking minute on Jackie boards and forums? Most of you are older guys anyway. This in itself is inappropriate.
**Yaaaawwwwwwn**
That’s also stuff you’ve been saying for the last 4 years. I guess you really don’t have anything new to add.
I’ll check back when you do 🙂
CJ, you need some mental counseling.
I’m sure it’s been said by many others before me, but the level of obsessive hatred you show towards someone who has talent while you and countless minions of music critics show no talent for anything other than a sick-hearted focus on destroying that which they have not, that which they cannot have and that which is the most opposite of what they are shows you to be a prime example of the most useless of detritus to have ever been born.
Those who cannot, or more accurately, will not contribute to mankind are less than useless.
You live your life to hate Jackie Evancho and feel elation at being able to insult her and anyone that likes her music. What a worthless being.
Hate is what hate does. Detrius is what detrius says. What comes out of a person’s mouth or pen condemns him not the person insulted.
Some of the most vile comments that not only I have encountered but other rational critics of this girl sounding like a woman, have come from her seemingly protective fans. This is a real phenomenon, the extent and quality of the ugliness coming from those who pendulate from heavenly ecstasy to insult slinging.
The word “pedophile” comes to mind as the only possible explanation for this explosion of sheer rot from her older masculine fans who make a up a substantial percentage of them, the ones who flock to her concerts, wear Jackie tee shirts to them, trolling the internet for anything negative so as to act out their own personality disorders.
Who the H are you to try and stop me from voicing my opinion, which happens to be professional? Or if you can’t stand it, can only try to drag me into the mud with you which I will not do.
Your broad ranging accusation of pedophilia presented by yourself as a professional opinion is laughable at best, and repugnant in much the way that the rest of what you write is so.
None of your opinions have anything to do with music and your hateful obsession with trying to attack a gifted musician are the proofs of the ugliness in your heart, if you have one.
One of the worst lines of your attacks are that you go after things that have nothing to even do with music but are technical in nature, much the way your kind attacks people who don’t use the English language they way ‘they ought to’, focusing in on grammatical mistakes and so on, completely ignoring that the spoken language is for communication first and foremost, and music is no different.
It is for the communication of the human soul and if you would climb out of your snobbish lair and look at the human race you might start to lose some of your poisonous cynicism.
cabbagejuice Done Anything Different Lately ?
Still can not find anything in your life more deserving of your time than repeating the same irrelevant rants ad nauseam?
Doing, and saying the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result, is…
Your OTT obsessive vendetta towards this minor child, Jackie Evancho, goes beyond all rationality.
Obsession is as cabbagejuice does.
AJ have you hear the samples from Awakening album?
http://vimeo.com/106070376
Knightly,
I just finished listening to them …. Incredible, awe-inspiring and utterly addictive vocals.
Get this…. I also heard full versions from the Longwood Gardens rehearsal sessions 3 songs. Dormi Jesu, Memories and My Immortal with Jackie playing piano.
Where she came up with that voice and range for Dormi Jesu is anyone’s guess. Blew me away.
After two years of SFTSS, Awakening is going to do exactly that … wake everyone up ! 🙂
The music industry had better wake up … ! 🙂
AJ
Yes I have heard those also. I’m completely with you buddy!
Truly a great time for us Jackie fans. What a voice!
If you want to know where she got the voice and actual notes for Dormi Jesu, they are straight from Kathleen Battle, the source for her “Lovers”. I don’t really care what can be conjured up in a studio, except one might think more attention would be paid to diction. The style is predictable, melancholic for practically every piece.
There is a quite a difference between the recorded Think of Me and the public performance on America’s Got Talent. The latter showed the same problems linking the darkened lower and middle range with the floaty top. There was no evidence of any real muscular support particularly with the crowning high Bb at the end. The breathiness on AGT is a result of thinking one can sing without support. Someone said that she thought or maybe her family did, that there is no need for training. Who knows, maybe they are on to something?
CJ,
I am very well aware that Kathleen Battle sang Lovers and Dormi Jesu. Jackie may or may not have copied her … totally irrelevant. What’s striking though is that she sounds better than Battle on both…. yep! … a 14 year old !
I just heard With or Without You and Ave Maria from the album. Take a listen. It might lighten your heart and give you soul 🙂 Who knows ! Miracles have known to happen when The Little Girl Sings !
It is not irrelevant if Kathleen Battle was copied in “Lovers” and “Dormi Jesu”. They are too close for comfort and I must say there is plenty of nerve is saying that Jackie betters the original without even giving credit. Didn’t she say herself that they pick a “bunch” of videos and then decide what to do?
Listen, and I really had enough of all this, I regard it chiefly as a study to try and figure out what is going on since it is so different from the way things are usually done. Still, one comes up against the wall of logic.
If a singer, not a “Little Girl”, cannot sustain short lines in the above clip or in Think of Me on AGT, how in tarnation is any rational person to believe that there was no tinkering in the studio? If Jackie is singing full voice in the Vocalise without any joining up of loose ends, I suggest that she send a LIVE tape of her doing it right away to the Met or at least to Juilliard.
My conclusion, by way of analysis, is the murky contrived tone that originally attracted and sustained attention is not about to be given up. Since she is a high light soprano, floating tones are not that unusual. In my 5th grade, there was a girl who could chirp out a high D above the staff with no difficulty.
Now we come to the hard part, joining up the two voices as it were. One really can’t, instead there is the need to go cold turkey and start from the beginning as it were to build a fully supported consistent line. That takes work, time and patience, no instant results. Sorry, but Sills, Freni, and Andrews (plus a slew of others) did not try to sing as an adult when they were teenagers.
Listen, I’ll keep an open mind, maybe it is possible to have a cake and eat it too. Maybe there will not be adverse consequences from such an experiment. But bear in mind, those who are taking such a risk are not professionals and haven’t the slightest idea of vocal ABC’s.
If you can’t hear the difference between the two versions by Battle and Evancho, then deafness is another one of your problems.
Just listened to the Battle version and it only sounds as if Jackie listened to and liked it, then made huge changes. Only spiteful comparison could make the claim that the delivery was copied, because if that was the case, then she did a terrible job of it, missing many key points in Battles delivery.
However, that is obviously not the case and once again your argument holds no water.
I just listened to both versions and can state unequivocally that Jackie did not copy the Battle version of the song, and most telling is the obvious difference in their key focus points.
Jackie excels as a storyteller and I would never have enjoyed listening to the original version of the song – it’s Jackies transformation of the piece that makes it work so well, at least for those of us who like her delivery.
CJ,
The most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard is that Jackie has to give credit to everyone else before her when she sings a cover. Ever hear Bartoli stand up in concert and say she is going to give credit to all the Sopranos who sang the same song 300 years before her.
I speak nothing but the truth when I say that as good as Battle’s version is and it is, Jackie’s is much better both in Lovers and Dormi Jesu. My ears don’t lie to me 🙂
Jackie is singing Vocalise because she wants to and do it her way. No one and I mean no one has an issue with it. Why would you? And its mean said times out of mind that she nor her fans have absolutely no interest in Jackie pursuing an opera career so why would she want to send anything to the Met or Juilliard. Pointless. She’s not interested and she’s said so on many occasions.
CJ, whether you keep an open mind or not is lost on most people. Its not going to change anyone and its not going to change Jackie Evancho. Perhaps if people start dying from bad vocal technique maybe then the world may start paying attention. I have never heard of anyone die from bad singing technique. For me that would be a first 🙂
I was debating whether to answer your silly comment about not dying from bad vocal technique. Actually, at this point I don’t really care. The vocal cords are the most vulnerable of a singer’s anatomy and every effort should be made to distribute the tension so they are spared. Otherwise, as what happened to many, is premature vocal burnout, and it also happens to opera singers who overdo it.
To spare myself from having to click again to answer that other Dudley Do Right sitting backwards on a horse to rescue a Damsel in Distress (I loved those cartoons, still do!), Jackie did say that they consult a “bunch of videos” to decide what to do. I am not going to repeat how close her versions were to Aled Jones, Charlotte Church, Brightman, Streisand, Enya, Dion, Westenra and lastly Kathleen Battle and Emmy Rossum to copy interpretations lock, stock and barrel, so not only the notes and their lengths are the same but small inflections. You are not going to tell me I am deaf when I am a professional musician. And I know the way some Chinesepiano teachers taught interpretation to some of their successful students, by cutting and pasting audio clips of Chopin and having them repeat them until they could reproduce them exactly.
It’s only commonsense that in the absence of proper teachers that kids can stand in front of a video about 50X, then have the absolute confidence to go out and trot it out before an audience. Notice I wrote kids in the plural as plenty of them are doing just that and even copying one another.
You just show off your musical blindness when you say you can’t hear the differences, but just like the good Alinskyite that you are, when your argument comes up short on it’s own, you go to grade school cartoon comparisons.
Too bad you’ve got so little of a life that the best you can think of to spend your time is beating up other singers on the internet. The listening public is hard enough on us as it is without snobby musicians telling others whether what they’re doing is good enough or not.
You want to sing and play the way you want to and you should allow the same for others.
CABBAGEJUICE SAYS:
September 14, 2014 at 6:27 am
If you want to know where she got the voice and actual notes for Dormi Jesu, they are straight from Kathleen Battle, the source for her “Lovers”.
– See more at: https://slippedisc.com/2014/07/jackie-evancho-there-is-no-auto-tune-on-my-new-album/#sthash.tBBOqEee.dpuf
cabbagejuice Ms Battle did not write the notes for “Lovers”(Shigeru Umebayashi) nor “Dormi Jesu”(John Rutter) she got them from the songbook, the same place Jackie got the notes. And Ms Battles does not give out voices either.
Are the voices in your head telling you that she did?
You have been repeating this rant ad nauseam for over a year now. And you still have no takers, never will.
Neither song belongs to any one singer, many have and will sing these songs. And they have and will sing the same notes, as written in the the songbook.
The “songbook” of John Rutter, you say, for “Dormi Jesu”? Very interesting, as his version for SATB choir is about as different as can be, not to mention other composers who tried their hand at this Latin poem. The voices in your own head convinced you this was the same as Battle’s! you should do something about that.
The version sung by Battle however is an arrangement with guitar of a Chilean melody. I am not sure if she sings it in Italian or Spanish since “dormi” in Italian is the imperative to sleep and the same word in Spanish is past tense. It could be Latin but it didn’t sound like that.
At any rate with folk music, keys are usually in a middle range. Because Battle’s voice is ultra high they could afford to transpose it up for her. What a coincidence Evancho does it in exactly the same key!
OMG!! She sang a song in the same key as another singer!!!
So what?!? If there are more than 12 singers wanting to do a particular piece are you going to go after them for not choosing a key no one else used?
Of course not, and you should give it up on going after this kid who is doing what she feels like doing, with no harm to you.
What’s your real problem with her anyway? Is there some jealousy going on here because you think that she’s getting some fame and accolades that you feel belong to you?
It’s incredible to me that other singers can’t detect what it is that so many others, musicians and laymen alike, can and do hear so clearly.
What makes her delivery so special is the lack of emphasis on ‘me’ and total focus on the song itself, and the direct comparison of Battle/Evancho, Streisand/Evancho and Sumi Jo/Evancho shows the difference in focus.
The closest I can find to Jackie’s performance inspirationally among other famous singers is Maria Callas, but it’s interesting that while few would probably assassinate her for going sharp on all her high notes on O Mio Babbino Caro, there is this sick obsession with attacking a girl who is not yet half way through her teens because she lacks ‘perfection’, and undoubtedly from others lacking ‘perfection’ themselves.
Easy Pete; CJ has a condition that forces her to tear music apart like a blind child tears a beautiful Rose apart to see why other people think it’s beautiful. Offensive as she is to Jackie and her fans, it must be frustrating to her not to be able to grasp the incredible beauty and emotive grace Jackie Evancho infuses into her music. To be able to be drawn into a song to the point of tearing and emotional upheaval is in most ways indescribable. And Jackie’s ability to stimulate such a reaction both from her recordings and live performances at such a young age is phenomenal. There is no doubt having to translate music into bits and pieces and viewing singing as a series of head and body movements like CJ does has to be maddening.
Gosh, just when I thought this thread was dead, announcements of two screwy posts appear in my inbox.
First of all, it is an insult to the blind to say they would pick a rose apart. This is more likely to happen with little brats who do see.
Musicans and laymen alike are not tripping over one another to buy the album. After a week and all the carefully orchestrated preparation over two months with TV appearances, one national, more like a wet firecracker, less than 9,000 sold. In the new recording, there are virtually EXACT copies of Battle and Rossum practically to the last detail. The fact that it is in the same key of Battle is a dead giveaway. Usually folk songs in the original are lower.
“Getting into a song” is more like reproducing the results of standing 50x in front of a video starting from Phantom of the Opera. Don’t get me started on all the other outright copying. Not so sure about the influence of Giorgia Fumanti on “Your Love” but hey, wasn’t it admitted that the songs are chosen from a “bunch” of vids on youtube? This is different from how it is usually done, a teacher deciding on what is the BEST for the student to sing.
CJ, your response exemplifies my point about your condition.
Your statement: “Getting into a song is more like reproducing the results of standing 50x in front of a video starting from Phantom of the Opera”. Sorry CJ, but no it isn’t.
You really do not know what music, especially the classical voice, is meant to convey. When you were asked what it is you feel when you hear Jackie sing, you didn’t even understand the question. I really do feel sorry for you. Only you know what compels you to exclusively denigrate Jackie Evancho, and I have no doubt you actually admire Jackie in your own way. There has been wonderful successes in ECT treatments that target the areas of the brain responsible for empathy you might want to consider. I hope one day you will be able to enjoy music, especially Jackie Evancho, beyond the cold mechanical aspect and understand the full range and experience of Jackie’s incredible voice most everyone else enjoys. Good Luck.
Stevie, you can invest in ECT treatments for the rest of humankind minus the 8500 who were motivated enough to buy the album. Barring that, due to the massive expense involved, you can stand instead on the street with a placard like a true Evancholist, spreading the Gospel of Jacqueline.
As for imitating videos, it also comes with the arm gestures and facial expressions – a total package, one would say! This is not unusual for kid instrumentalists imitating their teachers, as many Far Eastern and Russians force the kids to do.
CJ,
You really ought to check your facts before you say something. Makes you look like an amateur.
“Musicans and laymen alike are not tripping over one another to buy the album. After a week and all the carefully orchestrated preparation over two months with TV appearances, one national, more like a wet firecracker, less than 9,000 sold.”
Jackie sold slightly over 20K in the first week at #17 on BB Classical Charts. A 14 year old classical crossover singer singing songs by Battle and Emmy Rossum better than them. I think in this day and age that’s something to be proud of for any 14 year old. Wouldn’t you say that to her if she was your student.
“In the new recording, there are virtually EXACT copies of Battle and Rossum practically to the last detail. The fact that it is in the same key of Battle is a dead giveaway. Usually folk songs in the original are lower.”
I’m glad you think they are exact copies. Only goes to show how much better she can do the songs at 14 years old copying a 50 year old and a 25+ year old. Not bad for a 14 year old who has had little or no training in the repertoire she sings.
“Getting into a song” is more like reproducing the results of standing 50x in front of a video starting from Phantom of the Opera. Don’t get me started on all the other outright copying. Not so sure about the influence of Giorgia Fumanti on “Your Love” but hey, wasn’t it admitted that the songs are chosen from a “bunch” of vids on youtube? This is different from how it is usually done, a teacher deciding on what is the BEST for the student to sing. ”
So what? Why is copying from You Tube such a cardina sin. And why the heck should a teacher be selecting songs for her album particularly when she doesn’t have one. Is the teacher going to pay for the cost of producing the album?
The purchase of streaming songs as opposed to actual full albums is expected to be a larger number that seems to be what Billboard is concerned about. In any case Awakening was not even approaching the 100K of Gaga and Streisand even with all the hype and publicity that include TV interviews and sample performances.
Jackie is not better than Battle or Rossum. In fact she did not come up to Charlotte Church at the same age. The difference between the two is so obvious. CC sang still without the mike in front of her face obviating the need to 1) amplify the sound to the max and 2) obscure all those tics of vocal production. CC had a consistent quality from bottom to top with supported high notes. Jackie’s voice is virtually split in half with a hooty unsupported top.
She may be “proud” of her achievements while singing with a bad technique, getting by mainly on her natural pleasing quality and good looks. But that is just a given. Who told her that practicing once a week is good enough? Maybe the same people who told her that her voice would save the world, or something like that? It used to be that over-encouragement was thought to give kids big heads. She doesn’t have to work like regular mortals, can just sail on by like the rabbit passing the slower moving tortoises who in the end, if you remember, win the race.
The “system” so far seems to have been cherry-picking from youtube videos. This really encourages originality? Not on your life! The interpretations are superficial even going by the cavalier attitude towards the words. It’s not a real working out of the text and the music for that matter. Her recent comments on the Vocalise as being a bunch of notes on different pitches shows the lack of seriousness. One doesn’t expect a student to sort that out but teachers abound.
It seems that the Miss and her Team are just too good for all that!
I’d have to say that after reading this most recent propaganda piece that bloodthirsty is the first thing your writing says about you.
You arrogantly proclaim some singers ‘better’ than others when there is no such thing on a whole but what you base it on is your tin ear that cannot differentiate between these various singers with any credibility.
You consistently weigh in on that which you yourself do not understand and in this most recent post of yours you actually go on record to state that one singer is ‘better’ than another due to more volume and lack of needing a microphone.
By that standard a cast statue would be more artistic than a handmade piece of jewelry by sheer merit of volume.
You seem to understand something of technique and critique, with no clue about art, musicality or emotional connection between performer and audience.
You’re pathetic and I’m sure that any audience listening to you gets much of what you bring here, arrogant, self-important performances bereft of anything suggestive of a beneficial nature.
CJ,
Hot off the press. Awakening debuts #1 on the BB Classical Charts. Jackie’s fifth NUMBER ONE debut !
Guess that fable of the rabbit and the tortoise might prove to be what it is … a fable.
CJ
You said, “The purchase of streaming songs as opposed to actual full albums is expected to be a larger number that seems to be what Billboard is concerned about. In any case Awakening was not even approaching the 100K of Gaga and Streisand even with all the hype and publicity that include TV interviews and sample performances. ”
What difference does it make what Billboard is concerned about. You said she sold 9K albums and I told you Billboard ranked her #17 with slightly under 20K sold. You’ve been lurking on Amazon so you should know that there was quite some debate and a general consensus among fans that 20K-25K was expected. That’s pretty much what it came out to. Nothing to celebrate about perhaps but nothing to mourn about either.
You Said, “Jackie is not better than Battle or Rossum. In fact she did not come up to Charlotte Church at the same age. The difference between the two is so obvious. CC sang still without the mike in front of her face obviating the need to 1) amplify the sound to the max and 2) obscure all those tics of vocal production. CC had a consistent quality from bottom to top with supported high notes. Jackie’s voice is virtually split in half with a hooty unsupported top.”
That’s your opinion, mine is different and since I buy her CDs and attend her concerts, my opinion matters more to her team than yours most likely ever will. The reasoning behind your logic is just techinical mumbo jumbo we’ve been hearing for the last four years.
You said, “She may be “proud” of her achievements while singing with a bad technique, getting by mainly on her natural pleasing quality and good looks. But that is just a given. ”
Judging by her interviews, she’s very proud of the album because she has 3 original songs in it, she sings a vareity of genres, her voice is more powerful and mature and she can sing pop songs now and she had more creative control than her previous albums. Anyone with a single grey cell would be more than proud of such an accomplishment let alone a 14 year old.
You said, “Who told her that practicing once a week is good enough? Maybe the same people who told her that her voice would save the world, or something like that? It used to be that over-encouragement was thought to give kids big heads. She doesn’t have to work like regular mortals, can just sail on by like the rabbit passing the slower moving tortoises who in the end, if you remember, win the race. The “system” so far seems to have been cherry-picking from youtube videos. ”
Who told you she said that? She never said once a week practice is good enough. She said she doesn’t practice much maybe once a week. She doesn’t like to practice. She never said it was a good thing or bad thing or that it was sufficient or not. All the attention and fame and acclaim doesn’t seem to have bothered her or changed her much. Every professional or amateur she comes in contact with has nothing but praise for her work and for her demeanor often described as humble, sweet, caring and a joy to behold.
The tortoise wins the race in the end, so what happened to you. How come you sound as if you were losing to a 14 year old who doesn’t even know you exist 🙂
You said, “Her recent comments on the Vocalise as being a bunch of notes on different pitches shows the lack of seriousness. One doesn’t expect a student to sort that out but teachers abound. – See more at: https://slippedisc.com/2014/07/jackie-evancho-there-is-no-auto-tune-on-my-new-album/#sthash.rp0xYqyD.dpuf”
You must be kidding me ! As a teacher you should know better than anyone else that she is not an opera singer, can’t read music, has not studied opera and is no one’s student. Her reference to Vocalise is her way of describing how she understands it …. not a professional disseration on opera.
Like some other critics, you are going to have to live with the fact that a 14 year old can stand up on stage and deliver Dormi Jesu with the power and conviction that even Battle would have no problem with. From that standpoint Emmy would be a very distant third to Jackie.
Electronic amplification is NOT power. You people are delusional.
Indeed, it would be interesting to stand on the stage like Church actually did without that prop, the mighty mike, and compete with Rossum and Battle – all three previously named singing with FULL muscular support.
Dormi Jesu is a lullaby. Why would anyone want to sing it with “conviction”? Delusional again.
Also delusional, saying how “my style” or voice matured when it is used in the service of mainly copying other singers. This is not just an audible fact, but a visual one, proving what distortions are being employed to produce those tones. By now the other tortoises her age have already passed her in vocal ability. It’s interesting to note that other gimmicks like moving around on the stage will also be included, apart from the hand-wringing and melancholy facial expressions, to distract from a shaky technique.
Repeating the difficult pieces that can very well be assembled at leisure for a recording with breaks in between or even after every phrase, will NOT be a comfort in a full concert. The very idea is astounding to anyone who knows anything about singing. Why in tarnation no one thought of proper tuition first? This is really putting the cart before the horse and in danger of crashing or falling into a ditch.
Biggest gimmick in the room is your smoke and mirrors arguments that have little to nothing to do with the statements you profess to be arguing against.
My statements of earlier are now verified by your most recent diatribe in which you clearly support the idea of music as an athletic competition. Your preferred singers have more powerful voices, which in your mind equates to their being better singers.
Still here you are in this thread looking to beat up on a 14 year old who sings circles around you and your claims that her sales in mere thousands – wait a minute – how many people are buying your CD and spending hundreds to sit in on one of your weekly concerts?
Jealousy and elitism drives your hate and it must be some ugly music you make with that outlook.
Pete and AJ, the rational and logical points you raise with CJ are bound for failure as she is simply an insult machine at this point with no basis in reality. Since she has no grasp of musicality or vocal performance, other than her teeny little sliver of information that she obsesses on, she has stooped to just making it up and then bad mouthing her own imagined world. Don’t elevate her with intelligent discussion, just leave her alone to stew in her own juices.
Sheila D,
If Jackie Evancho is not worth intelligent discussion then perhaps you can enlighten me as to why CJ has spent four years relentlesly pursuing a young artist with thousands of posts repeating the same diatribe. And perhaps you can also explain why you would consider it worthy commenting on her. 🙂
While you’re at it try reviewing what you wrote and sort thru your vitriol for some sound logic. I can’t find it.
Hi AJ. Jackie is certainly worth intelligent discussion. CJ is just not capable of such. No vitriol intended – just fact.
Sheila D,
I owe you an apology and one I give willingly. I completely misunderstood your original comment. I thought you were talking about Jackie and not CJ. I re read the post ….. with fresh eyes :-). Once again my apologies!
Apology accepted AJ, and no offense taken. Wish I could say the same for CJ, but there is no excuse for her.
Sheila, AJ, Pete, Stevie and the rest of your gang, this is not a praise Jackie thread but open to musical criticism. However, what you wrote is an excellent template for yourselves:
“the rational and logical points you raise…are bound for failure as she is simply an insult machine at this point with no basis in reality. Since she has no grasp of musicality or vocal performance, other than her teeny little sliver of information that she obsesses on, she has stooped to just making it up and then bad mouthing her own imagined world.”
Your own imagined world is thinking the above Somewhere Over the Rainbow which is no different from any of the PUBLIC performances, is powerful, mature, artistic, wonderful, etc. NO, it is BAD singing according to ALL the accepted criteria that would not pass the first cut in Juilliard or even a modest music school as the fakey Your Love and Think of Me. If my criteria are made up then so are theirs because they are one and the same coming from any serious music educators.
The fact the girl admitted that they are winging it without teachers tells all. This is not to say that two very clever people have not been instrumental in producing this product. One seems like a family member who “coaches” her and the other is a big promoter, probably the reason she got onto AGT in the first place. Can any anyone explain WHY a 9 year old is dressed in a satin gown and long gloves if she isn’t supposed to be a caricature of an older woman?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SArrdynWzz8
This never stopped, in fact, this persona is the calling card, much different from talented kids who look and sound their age. Actually she did sing more natural back then. One can see what is definitely a pattern and attractive to a certain type of audience, older people like yourselves who are stuck in a time warp. However, this approach has a sell-by date for kids who stop being cute. And it never appealed to her peers. So there is the expected falling off of interest. So what gimmicks will be pulled out of the hat in place of an honest approach to music? In the end, that does win out, believe it or not.
CJ,
I don’t think you have a clue as to what you were trying to say. You seem to be rambling and even I can’t figure out exactly what point it is you’re trying to make.
You said she has no graps of musicality or vocal performance … Seriously ?
Find me an 11 year old who can sing Ombra Mai Fu like she did on NPR with piano accompaniment or an 11 year old who can come close to singing ND like she did.
And don’t tell me that Aled Jones sang Ombra Mai Fu better at age 11 because he certainly sounded like a little girl. Jackie at age 11 sounded like a mature woman…. murky timbre and all.
Don’t put words into my mouth, AJ. I never said anything about no grasp of vocal performance or musicality. Development however doesn’t come from copying videos. You can like Jackie’s Ombra Mai Fu better than Aled Jones at the same age but as they are so close 1) his is better and 2) he got there first.
While we’re on the subject there is a clip of her and Foster playing an electric piano from 4 years ago. It is obvious how she was putting on an act rather than slipping quietly into the act of singing as Jones did, Amira and Patka do without a lot of gimmickry.
Hey, you’ll have to forgive him, as every statement you make shows more deeply how focused your pyschopathical detestation for her success is to you on a personal level.
You have no validity in any conversation about any of these singers because your double-standard for those you detract and those you give accolades to leaves you bereft of any validity.
Now you’ve taken a quote from one member and applied it to four of us, because to you, there are no individuals, but rather those who agree with you, and those who don’t.
Once again, how are your pathetic CD sales going?
More to the point, how are Susan Boyle’s CD sales going?
Alert, alert, cheap diversion attempt by bully to singers better than her.
Exactly the point, CJ, is that you have bragged that you are a professional singer, and by association with that claim, given yourself the authority to tell all of humanity who is a good singer and who is not.
You leeringly suggested that Jackie’s sales are in the dumps, and you should show us a little of what you’ve got since you compare her lack of ability against yours.
Show us the accolades you’ve been given, your incredible CD sales, your concert dates and some videos so we can realize how fantastic you are. Maybe then we’ll grovel at your feet, as you seem to think you deserve, but until you can start putting up at little to show your expertise, then why don’t you shut your poisonous arrogant trap, because as near as we can tell, you can’t sing Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star without forgetting the lyrics, missing all your notes and gasping for breath.
At least you’re sure not to wag your chin though, as your street post posture probably allows for little movement.
Helpful hint to shut me down: Where’s your videos, critics raves and CD sales records.
I think it is long past time to stop feeding the negative influence that has infected this and many other threads on this blog. Norman has allowed us the opportunity to expand on the amazing artist Jackie Evancho, and I for one refuse to waste any more time responding to or promoting CJ’s feckless pejoratives any longer. That dark and destructive person has turned this blog into her own pus-filled hate mongering diatribe. Enough is enough. Jackie has just embarked on a new and exciting path in her career, and we have the opportunity to have a valued and meaningful pejorative-free discussion related to this new and exciting musical endeavor.
The problem with CJ’s participation on this blog is that it is not musical criticism. CJ’s comments are so off-base and bereft of any substance, that they’re really just verbal abuse. CJ needs professional help, and she needs it now.
“Don’t bother me with facts, otherwise I’ll have a tantrum and call it verbal abuse!” …from the Gospel of Sheila
LOL!!!
Not only the funniest thing you’ve ever said, but the only funny thing you’ve ever said!
You’re such a subhuman lying projectionist, trying to shove words in Sheila’s mouth that actually portray everything there is to know about you.
You never have any of the facts, but that doesn’t stop you from lying and trying to make them up as you go.
If you got caught with the empty Oreo package in your pocket and the last cookie in your mouth you’d insist that it was those damn Evancho’s and their fanbase that did it.
Petey, it’s amazing to stand back and witness the seemingly inexhaustible scatological vocabulary emanating from you fans. Is that what Jackie’s singing does to you guys, open the floodgates to all those denizens lurking in your brains? Because you don’t have any facts to contribute, it seems like this place is supplying you with a place to act out, that’s all.
Hi everyone – This is my first ever post on Slipped Disc, so thank you to those who’ve made this forum possible and to those who contribute to the thought-provoking discussion. For the record, I have a background in musical performance and with the ever passing years, an increasing fascination for what Daniel Levitin has correctly labeled “a human obsession”.
I believe that in spite of any musician’s shortcomings – real or perceived – it’s best that one frame one’s comments about the artist from an holistic perspective, rather than being so narrowly based. Otherwise one comes across as only ever being able to see the ‘trees’ (some of which may indeed be unattractive) instead of understanding the true beauty that is the ‘forest’.
I also think it’s important to accept that there’s more than one type of forest when it comes to selecting fine timber. We can all appreciate, say, the formality of a polished mahogany dining table, yet in the same household enjoy the multiple functionality of an aesthetically pleasing American Oak living room setting. It is a nonsense to state that one is ‘superior’ to the other.
And so it is with Jackie Evancho. A maturing sapling whose magnificence and potential has been appreciated and nurtured from a very early age, already with an output that exceeds the dreams of most who have chosen her path. To some it’s even more surprising that she achieves success in spite of not strictly following the conventional route.
5th album now, and yet another Billboard #1 Classical ranking. (Note: not #1 Opera ranking – as opera does not encompass all that is Classical.)
She’s no longer the angelic child, so she must be doing something right. One would have to agree with her fans here, and with the Classical music market, that there must be a musicality inherent in her interpretations and/ or delivery, over and above perceptions of “copying” other artists (which claim I actually agree with), and perceived technical shortcomings, that sets Evancho apart from the rest.
Then again it may all boil down to Classical music lovers being collectively deaf, collectively unappreciative of quality when they hear it, or collectively ‘paedophilic’ in their musical tastes. The case so far presented for these explanations, on the balance of probability, has not gained anywhere near enough credibility.
I conclude that Jackie’s continuing success all boils down to her musicality, in addition to those technical aspects in which she excels….virtual pitch-perfect being one of them. As auto-tune is never needed in her live performances then, quite simply, it’s not needed on her album.
Tapdancer, you wrote: “Then again it may all boil down to Classical music lovers being collectively deaf, collectively unappreciative of quality when they hear it”.
Can you really claim that the above clip of Somewhere Over the Rainbow is not full of real, as opposed to “perceived shortcomings” as you wrote? Such flaws are distractions from hearing and appreciating the music. And this is the way she sings EVERYTHING, except what manipulations are cloaked behind the scenes for recordings. When these are so different from public performances, one has the right to be suspicious. And who really cares about being on pitch when a piece like Think of Me has been repeated in front of Emmy Rossum’s video probably hundreds of times from the age of 8?
Musicality and talent are only raw material. If you are a dancer you should appreciate these are nothing without proper training and hard work. This can be seen in “She Dances Alone”, Kyra, the daughter of Nijinsky, who had a holistic feel for dancing but not the required bootcamp.
As for financial or commerical success, these are not an indication of quality but serving up to the public what they crave at the moment or what strikes a psychological chord with them. That alone should answer your question of what you define as “doing something right”. As an example, astonishingly, a singer named Adele, got 144 MILLION hits, 45,000 likes on youtube for croaking out “Someone Like You” as though her vocal cords were being scraped by sandpaper. And this is in 2011 before it was perceived she was having vocal trouble.
Furthermore, it is not right to put a “sapling” as you described it, before the public until it is certain that the tree will grow straight. Fans often repeat that she is living her dream and giving them pleasure but anyone who knows about vocal development would agree that it is exploiting the present at the expense of the future. No child, or adolescent, for that matter, is equipped to make such decisions that he or she doesn’t need training. Anyway, it seems and only logical that she is not in control as much as the fans would like to fantasize about it.
Furthermore, stating that ‘Awakening” got 1st ranking on Billboard classical, is the way Sony wants to define it or promote it. But it is a long stretch to imagine that “With or Without You” (that I question the lyrics as being appropriate for a 14 year old to sing) is in any way “classical”.
So what are they trying to do, cocking a snook at the classical world as though to say, “see, a 14 year old can sing Vocalise (virtually the only “classical” piece on the CD) as good as Moffo or Kanawa?”
The fact that you wrote “Note: not #1 Opera ranking – as opera does not encompass all that is Classical.” is just proof that you and countless others have it all bolluxed up. Opera is a subset of classical singing, which is in itself a subset of good, technically sound singing without schmaltz and visual distractions.
CJ: It’s good you agree with me that “Incorrect vocal training will most probably curtail vocal longevity”.
As for genre, if Evancho sings “Vocalise” to your dissatisfaction (or Piu Jesu, OMBC, ND, Lord’s Prayer etc.) with such indifference to the rules as you claim, does that mean these pieces are no longer Classical? Of course not. Her technique is not SO bad that, upon hearing her sing them, it now changes their genre.
You previously said “Such flaws are distractions from hearing and appreciating the music”. For someone in your position, having spent most of her life studying and teaching, that is perfectly understandable. This is where I probably differ from most of your personal detractors.
These flaws jump at you, whilst passing relatively unnoticed by the majority of the audience, an audience that includes everyone from Average Joes to highly successful musicians. Somehow, those not of your ilk are still able to enjoy this young woman’s output to the point of being emotionally moved – standing ovations, tears of joy, raving to their friends, taking days to come off their highs etc.
That’s what great artistry is about – the ability to be able to connect with one’s audience – and Evancho has it in spades.
CJ, you’re a teacher and a critic. Therefore, if you’re a GOOD teacher and a GOOD critic, you should have no problem explaining:
(i) What it is about Evancho’s voice that moves people so;
(ii) Why you persist in ‘criticising’ Evancho, rather than ‘critiquing’ her; and
(iii) If Evancho’s genre is definitely not Classical as you insist, why you see her as a threat to what you hold so near and dear.
When you write statements such as “Somehow, those not of your ilk are still able to enjoy this young woman’s output” you are just making a pretense of being nice and similar to a few others here, fake a genuine interest in a rational discussion while setting traps and sprinkling insults.
I don’t need to repeat about poor ticket sales, some of them actually cancelling a few concerts. Your little circle of Jackie fans fantasize the whole world is with you getting emotional highs which is steadily diminishing anyway seeing the CD sales compred to the last few times.
No one questions her ability to connect with an audience that idolizes her but the finesse and dedication to work are missing that can project it into the future and not just repeating herself as she did for two years until now.
Here is another gem of yours: “why you see her as a threat to what you hold so near and dear.” No threat at all. She is not going to bring down the standard of classical singing. Call it all you want, but her versions of Pie Jesu, OMBC, ND, Lord’s Prayer, Vocalise are not taken seriously by anyone who knows. But this caricature approach is not different from the way Shapplin and Brightman served up operatic arias with plenty of handwringing schmaltz and very little musical content. This, I fear, is the emotional attraction this kind of CC has for the general public and that includes you.
If you had just stopped at your statement that you just don’t care, that would fairly well represent your vehemence towards anyone who doesn’t march in step to your ever changing value system in which you attack based on sales, then say they don’t matter.
You hypocritical moron, your sales are nonexistent but you want us to believe that it’s because you have a more important role to play, which is apparently being the most caustic vision of any teacher that a nightmare could bring up.
Your students are sure to bring more poison into the world and more of the arrogant self-important attitude that you pollute their minds with daily.
What a retched a wasted life you occupy.
If you read what we’re saying while looking in the mirror it’ll make more sense.
By the way, I have doubts that you’re even a singer, since you’ve been so harsh and judgmental towards others, but have nothing to show of your own.
You’re the one who came in and started spitting in peoples vernacular faces, and now you’re whining that we’re calling you out on it. Not quite as easy as beating up on 14 year olds who don’t even know you exist, and sell 1,000 more CD’s than you for every 1,000 CD’s they sell.
Come back when you’ve got some videos to point us to so we can see what kind of special talent you are.
First of all, I teach piano and singing and do everything else in between like accompanying, chamber music and coaching, so I don’t need to make CD’s of my own singing. However, I do sing very well for my age and get gigs such as solos with choirs when available. My teacher sang into his 90’s which is very pertinent here since we’re talking about the viability of letting young people decide if they want or need lessons or not.
I shouldn’t be sorry if Jackie doesn’t have a proper teacher because she might be as good as or better than Janescova, meaning she might sell even more CD’s if she sang well and not just resting on the laurels of a given natural ability. Choices were made not to improve on it and as much as it is a pity, maybe it all serves them right.
The most down to earth post to date, at least that I’ve seen and it’s much easier to have a conversation this way.
At any rate, Jackie is simply another human being with a given set of abilities, but her own life, and should be allowed to make whatever choices she chooses to make without having to be set upon for not doing with her life as others would have her do.
You’ve made your choice and I mine, and we both benefit from our good decisions and suffer from the bad ones, but they were still out own choices to make and you know how annoying it can be when others tell you what to do. Don’t you think it only fair to allow the same for her as you would have for yourself?
CJ: My saying “Opera does not encompass all that is Classical” is EXACTLY the same as your saying “Opera is a subset of Classical singing”, so you may have misunderstood. Please relax!
Other points of agreement: (i) I cannot stand Adele’s singing. As a rule, her expression is phoney, and phoney in a way that I wonder if she ever has a true connection to the music. And yes, quantity does not necessarily equate with quality – but Adele’s commercial success cannot be denied. She just doesn’t meet my personal criteria for artistic success.
(ii) Evancho’s “Somewhere Over The Rainbow” doesn’t do anything special for me.
(iii) Maybe not all Evancho’s songs are Classical, but on balance her genre is.
(iv) Incorrect vocal training will most probably curtail vocal longevity. It depends. But the Evanchos’ publicly stated fear is that that conventional vocal training may diminish Jackie’s other unique vocal qualities. It’s a deal with the Devil, even if none of us know what the girl wants from her singing career.
It’s 2:30 am where I am so I’ll reply to your other comments tomorrow.
I don’t care if people are stupid or vehemently hardheaded to imagine that proper breathing, diction, vowels, and all the other little perks one learns would diminish certain vocal qualities. Well, I can say right away that joining up the register (the murky bottom to the hooty top) would be a must, so that dark quality would have to go. So there is a ring of truth in that fear, but the benefits would far outweigh keeping that woofy sound. These would be ability to sustain long lines without straining, extension of the range (the original Vocalise has a high C#6, nice to be able to do that!), abolition of vocal tics and muscle tensions.
But really so what? Who cares? There are PLENTY of young singers who can hit the high C# and even above that. What is wrong is allowing a young person just because she has a whim to go on with it to the end, and possibly ruin her future. Please do not imagine that a bad technique can be exploited indefinitely. I know what works with my own voice and how bad training almost ruined it. And I do know some who have lost their voices too early. Most professionals are in agreement that there is a reason for doing things the conventional way.
A sure sign of lack of training is all the goofy things that are done in the name of diction, particularly over-pronouncing in the WRONG places. There are all kinds of tricks to optimize the text. However, I am not interested in giving out information freely that took me years and money to absorb and learn. Diction is like fingering on the piano. Some pianists may find their way around without attention to fingering but the great ones going back to Chopin are very finicky about it.
And PLEASE don’t imagine that Jackie’s genre is classical. It can’t be classical singing at all when done with such indifference to the rules. They were always insisting it is classical crossover, a nice bucket term for anything not quite classical.
What a pile of crap your whole justification for this is. Trying to sell off your vile garbage as helping words from a teacher who cares about the future of others.
I’d be willing to bet your voice and singing style is solely focused on technique and devoid of any part of humanity, as you yourself have shown yourself over and over to lack personally of any redeeming qualities.
You are sick to spend so much effort to attack this girl, and even more so to feel justified in doing so based upon your self-appointed place of importance in the world of arts where to not match with your jackbooted image of proper music is to find oneself expelled from any position of validity in the world of the arts.
Well, Petey, I never believed your “nice” post. These are more you with all the bugs coming out. Maybe you can answer WHY you people are such nasty pieces of work? You don’t have the mental or musical capacity to understand what I wrote so all you can do together with your little friends, have childish tantrums.
In fact, “immature” would adequately describe your musical tastes. Enjoy the ride while it lasts, or until you last.
CJ – You ask for a rational discussion, I’m offering you a chance for conducting a rational discussion, but the best you can come up with is that Evancho’s versions of Pie Jesu, O Mio Babbino Caro, Nessun Dorma and Lord’s Prayer are essentially “caricature” approaches “with very little musical content”.
To anyone with headphones on, a score in the hand, they are not caricatures, and they are loaded with musical content.
You further say that “no one questions her ability to connect with an audience that idolises her…” But have you ever asked yourself how did Evancho connect with those who are only now, or who once began, hearing her for the first time?
The quality of your answers don’t exactly come across to me as the measured responses of a music teacher of long standing, willing to conduct a rational discussion.
Make you feel superior to use names in such a juvenile fashion?
You’re so dense to have not noticed that when you spread crap, that’s what you’ll receive in return, and you apparently have an endless supply of it stored up in your vacant soul.
You got a nice post out of me earlier because you actually dropped you vile approach for one post, which must have alarmed you so much, dropping your natural posting manner.
For a good image of immature, step up to your mirror.
Pete – Maybe I can have a rational discussion with someone such as yourself. CJ isn’t helping me much.
Do you hear any ‘studio tricks’ on the LIVE performances that Miss Evancho is using to promote her new album?
The audience must be complete fools for not realising the sound is devoid of musical content, even after the studio engineers have processed the sound before it reaches their ears.
Tapdancer, your presumption of “musical content” stops with singing the notes that the composer wrote. If the music is good, it can even rise above bad renderings of it.
However, instead of claiming my opinion is the only dissenting one against the whole army of Evancholists, Alex wrote on July 9th “Quite unmusical. Lots of ugly swells and no phrasing to speak of. If she wasn’t cute, she wouldn’t get any attention at all.” On July 10th he continued: “Isn’t that so much nicer? Judy Garland presents the song in its beautiful simplicity, with no unnecessary ornamentations, swells, or fuss. Jackie just wallows in it at half tempo, complete with all her distracting mannerisms (hair flicks, raised hand, etc.)”
After countless performances of O Mio Babbino I NEVER heard Jackie ONCE do this properly. If you have a problem with what is accepted in classical singing and this refers as well to the multiplicious PUBLIC appearances of Nessun Dorma, Ombra Mai Fu, etc., these are NOT supposed to be done with pressing on the notes, swelling into them, chopping up the phrases for lack of breath and also the undifferentiated vowel, uuh, that she uses in the upper register. Actually she did less of that several years ago with Pie Jesu, was more natural.)
The public that doesn’t know much about classical singing may be satisfied and swoon with those melacholic faces but it is NOT classical singing, as much as tapdancing is not classical ballet.
I never said there were recording tricks on Your Love in the recent interviews but really, please refer to the aforementioned “distracting mannerisms”.
And really after your thinly veiled insults strewn along the way, I am not interested in any discussions with you.
CJ – (i) You obviously don’t understand what putting on the headphones and following the score means, because you keep referring to visuals such as distracting mannerisms and melancholic faces.
(ii) If people over the years have given Evancho standing ovations for OMBC, and you have yet to hear to hear her sing this “properly”, then it’s high time you redefined what “properly” means.
I mean, what’s better than a standing ovation and thunderous applause with tears of joy being wiped from people’s eyes?
I’m sure that’s what Puccini wanted.
In Music, as in any other endeavour, it’s the results that count.
(iii) Speaking of results, I hear that Evancho helped raise $8million for charity with David Foster and others recently, and will be starring in her 3rd PBS special around Christmas. This is after launching her 5th album.
And that’s after all this pressing on the notes, swells that shouldn’t be there, chopping up of phrases etc. So there must be SOMETHING in her delivery or interpretation that is connecting with her audience.
What are those elements? I’ve asked you before, and you failed to come up with a sensible answer becoming of a music teacher.
It can’t be the visual distractions, because every time one puts on a CD, all one experiences is the sound.
So what are they, CJ? I have a list of over a dozen, and you have ….none!
Come on, Teacher – enlighten us! Explain Jacqueline Marie Evancho’s musical success in better terms than I can, so that the whole world will finally understand where you’ve been coming from these last 4 years.
That huge, mature voice coming out from that tiny girl needs explaining, and…..YOU’RE the one to do it!!
What an honour!! Up until this moment, no-one has come close to explaining why Presidents and Emperors want to be seen in her company. Maybe it’s her swells, her breathing, her pressing on the n….Nah, can’t be – they’ve already been discounted.
Anyway, let me help start this dissertation off for you:
“Ahem…Dear Objects, I mean…Subjects,
Queen Cabbage Juice here, so listen up!
Ahem…Today’s Discussion is titled ‘The Reasons Why I Believe Jackie Evancho’s Glorious Voice Has Besotted Me, The Great Cabbage Juice, For Nigh On Four Long, Lovely Years.’
Firstly, I’d like to thank Mr. Tap Dancer for allowing me the wonderful privilege …”
etc. etc.
Well, CJ, that was the hard bit. That should get you over your nerves. The easy bits – the musical reasons – I leave to you, being a music teacher.
Go on, CJ – this is your big chance. And don’t forget to tell ’em how much you LOVE Miss Evancho, because she’s given you, like she’s given some of her most rabid fans, A REASON FOR LIVING.
4 years! You’re life must be Heaven!
The reasons for public success? Not a hard question is answer. The same reason that Lady Gaga, Adele, and other performers are so wildly popular even more than JE, if you’re willing to pander to their lowest tastes! It’s very simple! Think of Burger King, Coca Cola, Friends, Glee, etc., striking the chords for instant satisfactiion, shock quality, titillation. Sorry, but if your mind is on that level of what entertainment passes today on the order of the Roman Colisseum, there is nothing anyone can do to elevate your minds.
For those who never heard of Puccini until O Mio Babbino please don’t speak for him. He NEVER intended his arias to become caricatures of maudlin, emotion dripping schmaltz.
CJ,
I have to say Tapdancer certainly has you stumped so it seems. I’ve been lurking for the last couple of days … too busy with work to post and the discussion seems to have gotten more and more interesting … I was hoping you’d come up with something more than the “murky tone”, “no breath support” etc routine.
By the way, once again correcting what you present as facts … 5 out of over 100 concerts were cancelled and 4 of the 5 were in the last six months of the SFTSS tour which lasted about 2 years. If you grab info from Amazon, make sure you have your facts correct instead of cherry picking what suits your purpose.
Tapdancer, Pete
You guys bring up some great points to ponder :-).
CJ,
I was not aware that you could commune with the dead. What else did Puccini have to say. Did he, for instance, caution you not to lower yourself to the standard of the unwashed masses by pursuing a 14 year old artist who doesn’t adhere to the puritanical stanards that you have dedicated your life to by your own admission though for what reason is anyone’s guess.
Ha, ha, AJ, did you think that musicians have to commune with the dead to find out what their intentions are? Music History, that I also taught, is the reference for style and tradition. Puccini wrote Nessun Dorma for a strapping tenor’s voice. O Mio Babbino is at the other end of the spectrum, no high drama at all but a plea by an adolescent to her father to buy a ring so she can get married.
The comic schmaltz value of OMB in Mr. Bean’s Holiday was spot on. Anything more than a tinge of melodrama makes this aria ridiculous.
CJ,
The public at large didn’t know and didn’t care for O Mio Babbino Caro until a ten year old little girl came on stage to sing it and got dubbed the youngest opera singer in the world …. much to the chagrin of many teachers and officionados such as yourself. 🙂 And Oprah, (don’t ask me why) just confirmed it again by repeating what she said 4 years ago….. youngest opera singer …. Hmmmm
Imagine spending decades of your life in study and exercise and practise to perfect an art … and a ten year old comes in and takes all the glory in 90 seconds 🙂 That has got to sting and rub you the wrong way.
Oh well, its done and the glory is hers for now !
Right, according to the Gospel of Oprah, the address for a shot of Cheap Culture – uh, oh, Amira W sang Nessun Dorma at the AGE of 9 on the stage of Holland’s Got Talent and won! The difference here Amira is actually improving as time goes on and not settling upon her laurels. O Mio Babbino done by Jackie has never gotten better, instead becoming more entrenched into a groove like an old LP. This may have worked when the cute factor was selling like hotcakes.
Incidentally, all you need to do is to stop commenting and you will notice that I refrain as well. You all make it worse for yourselves since I come out with more unassailable information. Do yourselves and her a favor by trying to outsmart me.
Corrections: 1) do her a favor by NOT trying to outsmart me and 2) one aria (sung badly) does not an opera or Oprah singer make.
Incidentally, as reported to me by some of the people I correspond with is the phenomenon of Jackie fans doing a kind of relay race. When one is fagged out, another takes his or her place.
Why should someone change something unless they feel like doing so?
You make it sound so trite and simple, that for someone to be allowed to sing in a particular fashion, they must do so according to the frivolous whims of some ridiculous Cabbage Juice induced criteria.
Poison and self-aggrandizing Alinsky-style attacks on anyone that refuses to jump on the hate-anyone-who-doesn’t-agree-with-CJ bandwagon.
You’re a pathetic example for any students who have you to teach them, since music is less what your about than you ridiculous arguments.
Again, where’s your CD sales? How has your delivery of songs you supposedly sing coming along?
Ah, so AJ passed you the relay stick?
A piano teacher told me a long time ago regarding technique, either you improve or deteriorate simply by being complacent and thinking you can stand in one place.
Amira did a noteworthy, though premature, recording of Dvorak’s “Ode to the Moon”. Patricia’s High C’s are stunning these days. Think about it.
Please don’t be stupid and attract more incriminating information by continuing with your provocations. For every “fact” you fans come out with, be assured I will have at least two or three.
CJ,
What facts? If your facts were so sound this wouldn’t be a discussion of over 150 posts. Think about that.
Just got back from listening to these two horrible renditions of O Mio Babbino Caro by Charlotte and Amira and really have concern for your mental condition that you would find so much fault with Jackie’s delivery and not these.
Robotic in both and while Charlotte’s tone is extremely pleasant, her phrasing is very forced and Amira’s tone, as always, horribly screechy.
You have zero ‘facts’ in your favor and your typed messages reek of the same screechy tone that Amira’s singing has. Maybe that’s why you like it so much, because it sounds like you? Yuck.
CJ,
Amira Who????
Don’t get carried away. One has to present somewhat of challenge to motivate me to outsmart them. You need to try a lot harder.
Your problem is you don’t read carefully. I never said I think she’s the world’s youngest opera singer. I said that is what Oprah said. Didn’t say I believe Oprah.
What I did say is that it must rankle pretty bad that after decades of serious study, a ten year old steps on stage and brings more attention to O Mio Babbino Caro in 90 seconds that the entire Opera community couldn’t in decades. And that is a fact.
Whoever is reporting to you is in the same boat as your are. Just as resentful and immature 🙂
Charlotte Church at around 14 (about 14 years ago), singing in full voice, O Mio Babbino, with remarkably good Italian diction:
youtube.com/watch?v=aPAzTGPkde8
Uh, that was still not you.
Guess you’re still incapable of posting a video of you singing these songs, but we’ll wait for the next millennia or so until you get around to showing us how great you are, and by association, why you are the anointed critique extraordinaire.
Yes, Charlotte did great but even she didn’t draw as much attention to OMBC as Jackie did in 90 seconds. Might be hard for you to accept but it is what it is. Just imagine your wrath when you heard people touting her as an opera singer…. and the youngest one to boot.
And not only that, but one that actually sounds good!
I guarantee you that the room would be cleared in nanoseconds if it was Caggage onstage! Otherwise why won’t she share with us her heavenly talents? Because they don’t exist other than in her imagination, so since she doesn’t have a real life, she tries to acquire one here in her rants.
Church did not have the much larger audience of US National Television, nor David Foster either to promote her, but did much better with CD sales. In any case, if more or less people heard either one of them, it is not what they did on their own merits but being in the right place at the right time.
It’s really amusing, though, that all this time, you fans were vehement about Jackie not being an opera singer, so why does she have to conform to opera standards?
Queen Oprah makes a pronouncement about something she knows squat about as it is obvious 1) a single aria does not make an opera singer make and when 2) not done in an “operatic manner” as you fans insist. But you jump on it as though this is Gospel truth, just reinforcing how delusional and silly you all are. But really, if she is an opera singer, a gig with the Met should be the next venue.
So if she gets the gig at the Met, then you’ll become an ardent fan?
Yeah, didn’t think so, but at any rate you continuously go back and forth as to whether CD sales matter or not.
If Jackie is selling well, it doesn’t matter, if someone sells more than her, then it does matter, and if you sell nothing, well then once again, it doesn’t matter.
Have some cake and eat it too, or is that pie your having?
Cabbage has to date posted zero evidence of her musical superiority and I think that she’s simply another wannabe that has made up in her mind that she’s some incredibly gifted singer and pianist, who unfortunately has no concert dates, CD’s or videos she can direct us to.
She has to use other flawed singers as her stand-in to try and make points that don’t withstand even the most superficial examination to detect the reek BS in her every post.
Cabbage, you think that O Mio Babbino Caro deserves no emotional content, so please for the elucidation of all, what do you make of this Maria Callas performance?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnkhtjpZAqQ
Before you make a complete fool of yourself (foregone conclusion), see if you can give an honest evaluation of Maria Callas and whether you (and Puccini of course) approve of her emotional performance.
I was going to stop responding and just allow you people to continue making fools out of yourselves, which BTW, does not reflect back very well to the object of your devotion, but when you mentioned Callas, I had to check it out.
Well, I am familiar with the particular clip conducted by Pretre and was always fascinated by Callas’ ingenious portrayal of a petulant, emotional 16 year old. Her facial expressions should not be mistaken for any grand drama when contradicted by her body language and the youngish sparkle in her eyes. Callas in the midst of going all guns in Macbeth, Norma, Tosca, or Aida didn’t look like that.
If Callas is not good enough for you, what difference would vids of me or my students who incidentally do sing O Mio Babbino, make to you? You need not answer that since I am not willing to talk to a nasty piece of work such as yourself.
Once again looking in the mirror as you type your nasty invective.
You didn’t even watch the video with any honesty, although that’s a redundant statement since it’s more than apparent that you have none.
Your pale and unfeeling heart cannot see the genuine emotion that brought tears to the eyes of your beloved Callas and to try and make a point on the internet you’re willing to throw even her under the bus. Cold.
Anyway, you won’t post a video of yourself because you have nothing of value to offer the world. Nothing more, nothing less, your a fake.
As you continue to vilify, please present proof that you have any validity in form of video please, so that we can also see the facial expressions and hand movement you do or don’t display.
[Music, applause]
Aaaaand…Wel-come BACK to America’s Got Da Talent – the game show where YOU pit YOUR knowledge against America’s finest….Well, final round for our home contestant Miss Cab-bage Juice, on 90 points – a perrrfect score so far – up against the one and only Mr David ‘The HIT Man’ Foster, finishing on 99 points.
Remember, Miss Juice, you have FIVE questions to answer in FIVE minutes – one point for each correct answer BUT – remember – this is your Joker Round where each point is worth double. Miss Juice, you have chosen your favourite category, Music History, specialising in Puccini’s Operas. Are you ready?
[CJ] Ooohh, my wordy – Yes I am!
[Host] Well, Miss Juice, your time starts……….NOW!In which opera did…
[CJ] Tosca.
[Host] CORRECT! On what date did…
[CJ] 2nd February 1893.
[Host] CORRECT! Who was falsely…
[CJ] It was their maid, Doria Manfredi.
[Host] CORRECT! The libretto for T….
[CJ] Carlo Gozzi.
[Host] CORRECT! Stop the clock!…..You have 4 minutes and 45 seconds remaining, only one question to go….Get this right, and you’ll be our NEW champion…Now David, how ya’ feelin’? [pause + gentle audience laughter] He-he..O.K. Miss Juice, are…you…ready? Understand, you can take your time on this one….O.K…. Re-start the clock……..NOW!Which outstanding female ambassador has also been universally acclaimed as having delivered the most beautiful rendition ever of Puccini’s aria ‘O Mio Babbino Caro’ from ‘Gianni Schicchi’?
[CJ] Well, I’m…I..I’m not sure if that’s really a FAIR question. After all, how do we define “beautiful”…ummm…ooh..I don’t kn…..I wasn’t actually TAUGHT “beauty”, certainly not by MY alma deutscher.. I mean, alma mater…and MY musical education was COMPLETE and unassailable, you know. Really, I guess all we can go by is the composer’s intention. That would be in the score, but…hmmm…the score is the same for everybody….. AH! I KNOW! I KNOW! It all boils down to technique…Yes, music is ALL about technique, nothing more, nothing less, and the beauty therefore would reside with…. MARIA CALLAS!!
[Host] Is that your answer?
[CJ] Well, I..I..believe so, I mean I… t h i n k… so…
[Host] 3 minutes, Miss Juice…
[CJ] Well….. wait a moment……. Ms. Callas was certainly a wonderful ambassador for her native Greece and of course, for opera per se. But….but I do remember now that every time she sang the line “Mi piace beeeee – LLLLOOOOO – beeelooo” she DID, I must admit, put a little too much “Hi” into the”Lo”, if you know what I mean….a screech rather like a cat suddenly sitting on a cactus, as it were…umm..so, NO! Not Ms. Callas…THAT commoner! You see, I was taught that “caricature” as such has NO part in any of Maestro’s Puccini’s arias…..
[Host] 2 minutes…
[CJ] …so the only other ambassadorial rendition I’m aware of that caught my ear was once whilst attending a diplomatic gala function featuring said opera. I can’t remember when… but as we filed out, I found myself right behind the President and his entourage, with this most GORGEOUS of sounds filling my whole persona…..oh such class, of such grace, oh such….BEAUTY!!…
[Host] You have only one minute remaining…
[CJ] …..and…oh..I believe her name is……
[David Foster] Well, she really WASN’T born an hour ago…
[host] Quiet please, Mr. Foster….
[CJ] …..her name..her name…it’s coming to me, it’s coming…….. …yes…yes!…YES!!…it’s Jack… Jackie…ah…ummm.uhggg.. E..K..N…Ch..E ahh ahh Jackie Jackie N..K..Ch..E..E…E..E..E…ON THE TIP OF MY TONGUE!!… YES! YES! YES!! YES!!!!!!!!!……… J.A.C.K.I.E. K.E.N.N.E.D.Y!!!!!!!
[Buzzer: BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ…]
[Host] Ohhhh…Miss JUUUUIIIICCCE….you really gave it your all, didn’t you?! It was: Jack-ie E-VAN-cho….Yes…Jackie E-VAN-cho….Ohhhh, so close. That means you, David Foster, are the reigning champion…and we’ll be seeing you, WITH Miss Evancho, in concert once more… And Miss Cab-bage Juice, YOU don’t go away empty handed because as our runner-up, you get tickets to see Miss Evancho, in concert, so that you can experience first hand this BEAUTIFUL voice that has warmed the hearts of so many throughout the world…
[applause, music (not opera, and not classical) and credits]
Yeah, that was a really great show, and seeing all the juice go out of Cabbage’s shortly held position upon her empty soapbox was priceless!
Of course we should have known she’d drop the ball when she couldn’t even guess at the genuine emotion Maria displayed when she sang O Mio Babbino Caro, but there it is for the record. Knowledgeable, but tone deaf, that’s our Cabbage.
Don’t know if it’s true or not, but I once heard, from an educated and reliable source that she actually looks like one, you know.
This is just for you, Robin, who BTW, are not permitted to post here under multiple usernames. I was just wondering who in the recent past was writing purple prose in allegorial style, in particular, the Tale of the Three Muddles on a Jackie thread. Instead of ogling at kids, maybe you should sit down and instead write for them!
Petey and Tapdancer, Jackie would not get the first cut in an audition for Laura in Gianni Schicchi in ANY opera house, or in Juilliard or even in a second or third rate music school. By contrast Amira W and Patya surely have more than a fighting chance.
Keep up the amusing self-parody!!! With fools all you need to do is give them enough rope, and they hang themsevlves!
CJ,
What makes you think Jackie wants to go to Juilliard’s or to any opera house. Isn’t it pretty obvious that at this point in time she has no interest in either?
If Amira wants to do Opera then yes she should get the chance. Too early to tell.
By the way its ironic that you accuse fans of ogling at kids but you yourself are doing worse by ripping away at a kid (and you’re the teacher) !
Oh, I get it, Oprah meant Jackie is the world’s youngest OPRY singer, as in “Grand Ole Opry” in Tennessee!!!
Hey Crabbage, are you saying you still have nothing to prove your own musical worth? Of course you are, because the last thing you would want would to be subjected to the same pointed, sociological and harassing attentions that you have aimed at this girl, and it appears for nigh on four years.
You are a pervert yourself and to be calling others that with nothing to go on, shame on you for calling others what it appears to be that you are. Nothing new there of course, but the rope laying at your feet is now piled so high that you live in a permanent state of darkness of your own creation.
Put up some of your own material and leave the critical analysis to those with no agenda. While you’re at it, you might quit bringing up that screechy voiced Amira, although I’m sure she sounds many times more listenable than you.
Norman, you might consider wrapping this thread up as certain people are only using it as a springboard to vent gratuitous insults. It seems the 2nd time they tried to reenter with a different moniker, cautiously, and even politely in the manner of a Trojan Horse but once in, shooting in all directions. Thanks.
CJ – A lot of requests directed your way have gone unanswered. I’d like to have the thread remain open, as there are still a number of unresolved points that are germane to the discussion.
For example, your repeated criticisms of Evancho in not having formal vocal training require justification. I have commented that such work on her vocals could backfire, and may train the beauty out of her voice.
You seem to be unaware of what Evancho’s vocal beauty actually is. This should bother everybody reading your endless criticisms. Others here have asked you to establish your credibility, as the complete lack of balance in your commentary indicates – although you have technical knowledge – that you can’t possibly have teaching credentials worthy of that title. You have so far failed to post vids of either your own singing or that of your “students”, for fear that you will be found out.
Empty kettles make the most noise, and after 4 years of continual NEGATIVE ranting, your game is well and truly up.
Robin D Bermanseder, AKA Tapdancer: Well, well, after breaking the rules, the best defense is yet again an offense?
“Hi everyone – This is my first ever post on Slipped Disc, so thank you to those who’ve made this forum possible and to those who contribute to the thought-provoking discussion. For the record, I have a background in musical performance” – See more at: https://slippedisc.com/2014/07/jackie-evancho-there-is-no-auto-tune-on-my-new-album/?replytocom=42900#respond
Now that you established YOUR credibility, you have the nerve to question someone else’s? Even though you are not worth the time of day from me, beauty of timbre is very common and ONLY raw material. Obviously those with ugly voices shouldn’t bother to study singing and should find something else to do. The question remains WHY a beautiful voice brings out so much ugliness in people like you. The next question is WHY old men are crowding her sites, even to the extent of making one of your own, Jackie-Central. It’s not only the singing that moves you but the obsession to collect pictures of her in every pose and dress imaginable.
I will say it right here: THIS IS HIGHLY IMPROPER BEHAVIOR for anyone past teenage years to obsess over someone else’s daughter. As many of you have children and grandchildren, how would you feel if creepy old men are gathering photos of your own kids and getting emotional highs from her singing? I am not Jewish but I am familiar with the prohibition of men singing with women not their wives among the Orthodox. There seems to be a very good reason for this.
CJ: My name is not Robin D. Bermanseder, or anything even REMOTELY close to that name.
You can bet any amount of money on that.
To Norman Lebrecht: We either have someone who’s made an honest mistake, or we have a Premium Class, Grade A++ nutcase on board Slipped Disc, and her name is CabbageJuice.
So Robin, what is you real name?
Cabbage, what is your real name?
You want to make demands of people, whether it be for them to sing the way you decide, even though you won’t even submit proof of your credentials, preferably those showing your musical mastery and superiority.
Now you want to pretend to be a cabbage, (which we only partially believe) but want others to give you personal information so that you can stalk them the same way you stalk little girl singers, towards what depraved end we can only imagine.
You’re a perfect example of the do as I say, but don’t dare do as I do type of double-standard narcissistic elitist.
Hey Garbage mouth, you’re the only one here with a perverse attachment to Miss Evancho, as you congeal around any talk of her talents and now try to project your sick single-minded obsession with her destruction, then pretend to profess a belief that it’s the rest of healthy humanity who are sick because we have appreciation for her artistic talent that you can never achieve even in your most depraved nightmares.
You are sick to the core and attack, attack, attack both a child and any who would defend her. You are the worst example of humanity to exist, when you present yourself as a caring and helping teacher but are in all actuality a jealous and poisoned soul who believes to her core in the idea of cutting the tales off all the foxes to make up for your own missing tail/tale.
Go back to Mordor from whence you came.
Sounds like you have been reading too much McKinley Cantor.
Hahaha, I’ve been reading too much you, but then so have you.
Everyone should take note that there is a person posting gratuitous insults towards not only the target of this thread, but also towards anyone not willing to see the world as a horrid and bleak place where difficult people won’t help her to beat up on a 14 year old girl.
She has repeatedly used schoolyard level taunts and taken my name in the same way.
I’ve recently decided that since she’s insisting on doing so, that it’s by her own example that it’s acceptable to do to her as she does to others, in all ways.
She insists that her views in all things relating to music are the only correct views, and even though musical enjoyment comes not from a textbook, feels that we are infidels and inconsiderate nincompoops when we don’t tow the line and follow her foolish example of attacking this horrid young creature named Jackie, who for countless millions is proof of existence of better examples of humanity than the self proclaimed Cabbage Juice. (Who could think of a more appropriate name for such a sour creature).
Pete – So eloquently put! Someone has to say it.
Not only that, but surely it’s illegal for someone to claim a particular poster, such as myself, is some OTHER person to whom they really are.
That can’t go without punishment, or at least a genuine retraction.
CJ: Thanks for the laughs. I decided to read the rest of your drivel, and this is how that drivel measures up:
(i) Quote:”…why a beautiful voice brings out so much ugliness in people like me” .
Response: If you’re referring to Jackie Evancho’s voice, you couldn’t have described yourself more perfectly. Seriously.
(ii) Quote: “…why are old men crowding her sites”
Response: I’m not an old man, and I don’t crowd her sites.
(iii) Quote: “…even to the extent of making one of your own”
Response: I don’t have a website. I wouldn’t know how to go about making a website. I don’t even have a website for my own business.
(iv) Quote: “…the obsession to collect pictures of her in every pose and dress imaginable”.
Response: I don’t collect pictures of Miss Evancho, let alone in any pose or dress. I’ve never bought any CD of hers. I’ve never attended any of her concerts. I don’t have any of her paraphernalia.
(v) Quote: “…I am not Jewish..”
Response: I’m not Jewish either.
CJ, as I mentioned before, you’ve either made an honest mistake about my identity, or you’re effectively in need of real help.
Don’t you think there’s something absolutely creepy that she imagines the things that she accuses musical listeners of?
I think that it’s because it’s what she does and that really creeps me out!
Pete – I appreciate your support. I don’t know if you’ve seen any “Fawlty Towers” episodes, but there’s one scene where one of the guests – who happens to be a Psychiatrist – looks at the antics of Basil Fawlty, then confides to his wife: ‘There’s enough material there for an entire Convention’.
Sadly, CabbageJuice falls into the same category. The best thing that anybody who knows her can do for her, is to gently suggest she seek a referral from her physician. Her latest attempt at “identity matching” is almost psychotic.
CJ,
I often find the depths of your comments worth exploring and trying to decipher before agreeing or not … but why ongoing discussions must turn to unpleasantries is beyond me — why all concerned cannot view such discussions as potential learning experiences.
Your comments rather than eliciting anger should provoke curiosity as to what you are trying to explain (and there are occasional dead ends) because time wasted in anger rather than in learning is an abuse against any conceivable purpose in the Universe.
Both sides in this discussion should be reminded — HER SINGING IS GOOD ENOUGH TO GET HER TO MANY STAGES IN THE PAST FOUR YEARS — AN UNDENIABLE TRUTH.
What is bugging me is the over-concern with her singing that is perfectly adequate if not perfect per se … so why not pay some attention to the real focal point in Jackie’s talent — NOT her singing but her absolutely adorably radiant stage presence without which she would not have gone anywhere beyond a few OK performances followed by total forget-it-ville — a slightly under-trained singer not quite up to the standard of those technically trained that CJ loves (but the general public wouldn’t/couldn’t relate to).
Her personality and character so evident in her interviews and in all contacts with the public are so stunning that any criticism of her singing or another part of her persona bring extreme responses from those who admire her intensely … admiration she truly deserves.
Jackie is not only socially and professionally exceptional but brilliant and creative — a stunning citizen of our country giving us all a chance to share unparalleled pride.