Just in: Jackie Evancho moves to Sony Masterworks
mainThe 13 year-old ex-child singer who has topped the US ‘classical’ charts has announced a label switch on her Facebook page. She was formerly with Columbia and Syco, Simon Cowell’s joint label with Sony. The immediate significance of the shift in terms of charts categories is imperceptible.
The “ex-” child singer part was a nice touch.
Mr. Lebrecht,
You got wind of this almost as fast as we did. Do you peek in on Jackie forums?
No. They msg Slipped Disc.
There’s been all kinds of excitement in Evancholand the last couple weeks.
-The mysterious cancellation of Jackie’s Loveland, CO concert just two days after she was pumping everyone up on how excited she was to be performing there.
-Fans being banned from her fan site for expressing their grievances about the unexplained cancellation – plane fares, train fares, hotel reservations, you name it.
-The “Mom posting pictures [redacted]”.
https://twitter.com/non_blonde3/status/389967899462340608
-The mysterious upcoming private performance in Bali. Some saying it’s for Simon Cowell’s wedding. LOL!
https://twitter.com/RichardAndAdam/status/390513900892221441
-The mysterious disappearance of Jackie from Columbia Records web site. Now explained by this label transition.
Never a dull moment. Keep it coming. 🙂
No, keep it away please. Apart from Sun readers, who cares about this kind of “information”?
The “Masterworks” label seems to fit Jackie perfectly. The Jackie detractors will be furious, of course, for her inclusion in that esteemed group.
Why don’t they all leave her alone and let her have a normal life without all those prying eyes and obsessive fans?
you know I agree in many ways this lovely young lady must from time to time get very tired and wishes that she could have a normal life; however this is the price many artists pay by sharing their gifts with the public; people are not satisfied with her gift of singing; they seem to want to drain every last little bit out of this young girl but I believe with her parents and families support she will be alright; it seems at least in the past anyway that she also has a strong faith which will give her strenght and wisdom and knowlege of just how to handle most situations.
Norman, pretty irresponsible posting a link to a libelous comment from a known vindictive Jackie hater (Non_Blonde3). I would SERIOUSLY consider removing it ASAP
This will be a much better fit for her and she is among good company there.
http://www.sonymasterworks.com/artists
So Norman, if it was your 13 year old grand-daughter’s pic in the Non_blonde3 link, would it still be on your blog??
The picture is one that was posted to Jackie’s official, verified Twitter page.
https://twitter.com/jackieevancho/status/389473648970452993
It’s nothing to be outraged about. It’s something her family wanted to share with all her fans
By all means have my previous comment removed if it’s found to be so offensive, but it’s really just an example of the kind of drama that so many of Jackie’s obsessive fans thrive on. That’s why you’re here now 🙂
It’s the comments made by non_blonde3 in her tweets that are offensive. Sorry that wasn’t clear in my original post.
@ClassicalLover says, As a fan of Jackie’s, I came here to read a report about her change of record label. So speaking for myself that is why I am here. I did not know there was going to be “drama”, and I do not ‘thrive on’ it. Nor do any of the other Jackie fans I know.
Are you a fan of Jackie? .
A fan’s heighten interest in any and everything concerning the person she/he is a fan of is perfectly understandable, and normal for a fan.
But it is clear you are not a fan. No you are one of that new breed of haters, the anti-fan.
While a fans interest is normal, the interest and interactions of the anti-fan is perverted. Your sickness thrives on this sort of drama, which is WHY you are here and WHY YOU introduced your unrelated comments.
I can only imagine how miserable sad, and empty your life must be to resort to such unseemly behavior to attract attention.
►► Re: Jackie and Sony Masterworks
The music industry is typically a convoluted and labyrinthine corporate structure forever dynamically in motion. This minor change in label names isn’t unusual.
Sony Music Entertainment (Parent)
SYCO Music/SYCO Records, subsidiary of SYCO Entertainment
Distributors, Sony Music Entertainment (UK)
Columbia/EPIC Label Group (US)
Sony Masterworks record label: (Genre: Classical, Jazz, Show Tunes) is the result of a restructuring of Sony Music Entertainment’s classical music division. Before the acquisition of Bertelsmann’s shares in the former Sony BMG, the label was known as Sony BMG Masterworks.
Sony Masterworks shares the same parent, or umbrella, as Arista Nashville, Columbia Nashville, RCA Records, RCA Nashville, Epic Records, Columbia Records, Epic Records, and several others.
As far as Jackie is concerned the changing of the label name is little more than moving the deck chairs on a cruise ship. Sony appears to be simply categorizing the artists by genre. This latest activity is just another adjustment of the chairs after the acquisition of BMG and they apparently wanted Jackie to be under it’s Masterworks Classic division for reasons which may be obvious… we can only speculate that the executive team at Masterworks may thought to be better suited to navigating the Classical scene.
One assumes that if Ms. Evancho had been making money for Mr. Cowell, she would still be working for Mr. Cowell.
A re-tooling may be to her advantage, given her raw talent.
Janey,
Jackie never worked for Simon directly. Her contract has been with Sony all along. They appear to be happy with the money she’s making them (she has a 360 contract), or they’d likely be more impatient with regard to her next album.
Anyone like cheesecake? Precisely because of those twitterpated elderly fans, this photo should have stayed in the family.
@CJ
You seem to lose perspective. The fans arent the problem in this case. The non-blond character is the issue or rather the comments she made.
@cabbagejuice you and non-blonde are birds of a feather. The picture is just a home photo and is no more ‘cheesecake’ than dozens of photos we have of our 5 granddaughters. Girl displaying a cake she baked, possible her first, and proud of her success.
It is a real shame there are so many sick haters in the world.
@AJ Not losing perspective at all. The link to the picture was posted by a fan. I stand by what I said. Not every family picture needs to be displayed for the whole world to see. People may draw the wrong conclusions as what was inferred by the ‘non-blonde’. It’s better to be above all that.
And, incidentally WHY was the Loveland concert cancelled a few days before? It seems that ticket sales didn’t go above 50%. The inconvenience incurred are not only tickets, but as mentioned above, plans laid to waste, hotel and transportation bookings.
@CJ,
Agree. Not every picture needs to be displayed…and it doesn’t. Only some!
And I have no idea on the cancellation of the Loveland concert. I am not the Evancho’s keeper. I’m a fan.
There could be any number of reasons including low ticket sales. I have no idea what the real reason is.
The Worcester concert appears to be a success with 80% fill rate. What’s your take on that?
Maybe people in Loveland aren’t as keen about seeing Jackie as they are in Worcester ? And maybe, people in California are nuts about Jackie because it appears California has the most concerts.
The Worcester concert was barely 40% full, and the balcony was 90% empty.
Not sure where’d you got your information but according to people who attended, the estimate as over 70% full for the entire venue.
How large was the venue? Where may I find the statistics you cited?
The venue has a 2300 seat capacity. Sorry I can’t give you a link to the stats. The reason I know about the figures is because I was following the ticket sales online up until the evening of the concert.
Mr. Lebrecht,
Speaking of pictures, now that Jackie is an “ex-child” singer, how about using a more up to date photo of her rather than the one you chose from when she was 11. And no, not the cake photo.
@Jay Jackson I would imagine that you would not display all your family pictures for the world to oogle at, like bathing suit shots, because there are weirdos out there. If she were wearing an apron, perhaps, the focus of the picture would be more on the cake and not what was right beside it.
@cabbagejuice I agree there are a lot of weirdos out there, some even more weird than you and non-blonde. But I do not believe we should allow them to rule our lives.
@AJ There seem to be fewer and fewer vids from concerts and virtually none from Worcester, not even reviews, AFAIK. I don’t know either the seating capacity of the hall in MA. So I don’t have any “take” on it.
I don’t know either the reason for cancelling the concert in Loveland but maybe the pricey tickets were off putting, a possible reason for the poor sales.
Reports from Worcester are that the video police were out in force but here is one cellphone capture with poor audio quality:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CU3zuZ6SVtg
Umm, getting back to the music…
If you’ve heard Jackie’s recent performances, you can tell that she’s going through an adjustment period with her voice. Female voices may not “crack” like male voices during puberty, but they do indeed change, and I think she needs time off to let her voice “settle” into a lower register — hence the limited performances these days.
@qwerty Limited performances are not cancelled ones. If the “team” were considerate of the public and of the girl, they would give her voice the proper tuition (might take a few years off to develop) and not butt out a few days before scheduled concerts.
There is no way such a high and light voice will settle into a lower register. The opposite is more the case, having pushed it into the lower range for the past few years was a tenuous proposition that didn’t work. A small bird-like physical structure usually points in the direction of coloratura. Think Dessay, Lily Pons, Rita Streich, etc.
To Where You Are…Jackie Evancho at Lewiston NY 29 June 2013
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_PvOKE2QTo&feature=c4- overview&list=UUTE_yFckKWQbccNbG8WTH7w
These videos were recorded on a cellphone with a cheap 3 cent audio chip for sound.
Jackie Evancho Ombra Mai Fu Worcester MA 10/11/13
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6zr5n-tC0k
Jackie Evancho Lords Prayer Worcester MA 10/11/13
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsvwUPbFcDI
Jackie Evancho Impossible Dream Worcester, MA 10/11/13
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xrf-o1x-DP4
It is my hope that she is receiving adequate training. She deserves much better than to be represented by these types of performances. Her Bridge Over Troubled Water showed the true talent she possesses.
It seems not all the fans are sheep-le. After the disclaimer “it’s not her fault, she’s such a nice person…”, they did complain about having invested and lost good money in plane and hotel bookings for what is now a 3rd major cancellation. Not only that but the point came up, why recycling old repertoire and not anything new as should have been expected from her rest period over the past few months? Apparently a quite a number of fans left official websites out of disappointment and even distaste.
In the Worcester concert were served up the old rather serious standbys, only 11 scheduled short songs with 2 orchestral interludes in between. Even at the late discounted price of $75 in Worcester, it’s really asking too much of the public to have only 6 songs before an intermission. (You really get more for your money with classical recital singers!) Now imagine having to pay more than twice as much for a similar program of which repertoire has been hashed out time and again with NO real improvement.
The diction is still muddy, there is no real consistent line (in other words too many changes in timbre), O Mio Babbino has breaks after almost every syllable…same old, same old…
The core of the diehard fan base are still the elderly, although there was an attempt to show that this act is not out of touch with youth. Some young girls were invited to the stage to ask them questions of whom one of them was gobsmacked for an answer. They then sat down around her for two songs (for which an apology was given “sorry you have to sit on a dirty floor”).
The unprofessionalism of her handlers is astonishing. Her raw talent has carried them all thus far sanctified by the halo of alleged divine intervention. Now it is time to get REAL.
A long and inaccurate commentary not to mention repetative of the same fare we’re used to from you.
if you’re going to borrow info from the Amazon forums, remember that it is often people’s perceptions …. not necessarily facts.
Copied and pasted here from the Amazon.com: Jackie-Evancho-General-Discussion-4
2 Oct 2013
Anthony Aweeka says:
Is Jackie a “butterfly”? The butterfly effect refers to insignificant events that have enormous consequences in a chaotic world. That the world is presently chaotic is widely agreed although opinion as to the cause and character of the chaos differ. Those who claim superiority ascribe the cause to shortcomings of their respective subjects. Banks decry those who fail to pay their mortgages and classical critics to the masses who fail to pay attention.
Yet. despite the lack of acceptable tuition, a child, JE, gains tremendous popular acclaim singing classical music. Pious protests notwithstanding, she continues to gain in popularity and distract possible devotees of the classical genre from more deserving and approved artists. This is a consequence out of all proportion to it’s cause, an ordinary girl from Pittsburgh.
Worse yet, she is being favorably compared to the best classical sopranos living and dead.
To those who follow the paparazzi, she is invisible. No drugs, no boyfriends, no marriages divorces or drama, no scandals. She remains largely unnoticed by the music industry or the media despite massive sales, sold out tours, command performances, and truly amazing 3 year career. Still, despite all efforts to trivialize her, she continues to gain fame and raise questions about sacred standards and sacred standard bearers. She seems to be redefining excellence in spite of the self appointed arbiters of such. So, the butterfly shakes up the establishment and may yet restructure it.
But it is not only singing that she has impacted like some errant meteor. Her pleasant demeanor, politeness, and humility belie the blatant sexuality and questionable behavior seemingly “required” of popular entertainers. How juvenile in comparison is Miley Cyrus? While Jackie has had the cuteness of a child to her advantage, she is quickly redefining beauty as a young woman. She can dazzle without fireworks, deafening noise, spectacular accompaniment, or wardrobe malfunctions. She can evoke deep emotion with only her voice and artistry. She can inspire without pretending to be superhuman…and so, she is…like that butterfly.
For those who would like to hear a new professional recording of Jackie’s voice she sings a duet of “O Holy Night” with Vittorio Grigolo on his new album “Ave Maria” which was released today. (Oct 22).
It is the final song on the album.
Vittorio Grigolo and Jackie Evancho in a duet? My Lord.
It just keeps getting worse and worse, doesn’t it?
Yes, unfortunately. Her previous performances were in tune. I was quite hopeful after her Cirque du Soleil appearance.
Thanks for the comment, Janey. A person can be of two minds about something, even something important to them. One can think the best of someone, hope the best for them, admire them greatly, and at the same time recognize and lament when their potential is not being realized. It’s good to keep in mind, though, that a stumble is not a fall.
Just downloaded it from Amazon. Beautiful! Another major talent that knows and respects the true talent of Jackie Evancho. Contrary to the self-aggrandizing amateur critics here, the true professionals in the music business recognize Jackie’s pure vocal gift.
https://play.spotify.com/search/vittorio%20grigolo%20ave%20maria
I have listened to the Grigolo-Evancho duet and am astonished this was allowed to be the final version. She is off pitch on 50% of the notes.
I am surprised as this has not been an issue for her in the past.
This cannot have been Vittorio’s idea.
Janey,
My sympathhies on your hearing loss !
Sony Classical has just released a duet where one of the singers cannot hit half of the notes correctly. It is a shameful money grab.
@Janey,
Sony Classical released a duet for those who can hear well and appreciate and recognize vocal beauty.
Unfortunate for those who can’t ! 🙂
@Janey,
“This cannot have been Vittorio’s Idea….”
Maybe not but certainly his management team’s. This duet appears only on the US version of his album and may have been added on to help promote his album in the US through Jackie’s popularity. Nothing wrong with that since this collaboration only solidifies Jackie’s increasing credibility among the elite.
To promote the CD “through Jackie’s popularity.” Yes, that is why the deluxe version of his CD, which does not have her duet, is #253 on Amazon, but the CD with her is #5,000. It would seem her duet may be having the opposite effect than intended.
Do you mean that seriously? If anything the company knows that deluxe versions sell better. So putting JE on the non-deluxe version is a way to boost its sales by marketing the CD to an additional audience. The only mp3 track on the non-deluxe version that is enjoying a notable number of downloads is no. 18.
Janey,
It depends where you chose to look for info and what you believe.
iTunes #music_classical best selling song: O Holy Night – Vittorio Grigolo, Jackie Evancho, City Of Prague… c69.co/26753385
1:05pm – 23 Oct 13
https://twitter.com/musicchart/status/393105960719220736
I suspect Jackie’s portion was an late entry overlay. With Jackie’s transition to “Masterworks” they may be trying to bridge her level of popularity with some of the more established artists. I suspect “O holy night” was thrown together quickly just to add her name and encourage sales.
Janey:
Actually, this have been Mr. Vittorio’s idea. Jackie and Mr. Vittorio met before on “Dancing with
the Stars”. They were the guest singers on classical night, so they are familiar with each other.
http://youtu.be/-9kxfGTL2F0
One of the most phenomenal things about Jackie from the start has been her pitch-perfect voice. Artists around the world, including Vittorio Grigolo have publicly praised Jackie Evancho to their own fans and have stated their honor in singing with her. The only astonishing thing left regarding Jackie are those who still actively disparage and demean the incredible talent of this young lady.
@Janey I don’t hear her being off pitch. What I do hear is what CJ said regarding the overtones of their voices not matching, maybe leading you to think she’s flat. I have heard Jackie in almost every conceivable venue(except of course the opera stage)and I have NEVER heard her miss a note. Even in her younger days when there were no front monitors she was always on pitch.
To AJ and Jay Jackson whose post was longer than mine: “if you’re going to borrow info from the Amazon forums, remember that it is often people’s perceptions …. not necessarily facts”.
You people are in love with your wild imaginations. Charlotte Church sold more albums in her day.
“Worse yet, she is being favorably compared to the best classical sopranos living and dead.” Not by anyone who knows anything about singing.
But please inform, if any of your assertions are true, WHY the half empty halls these days?
CJ,
What in the world are you haranguing about?? I was talking about your Worcester post! Tune in when you’ve landed firmly from whatever flight of fancy you’re on !
@AJ Only a simple question, AJ, why is the general public (not pensioners)staying away in droves from her concerts?
Jackson quoted at length from an Amazon post, longer than mine.
Most of the information I supplied was from Best of Jackie on the Web.
There is a big problem pairing up a tenor operatic voice with an undeveloped girl’s. Even with a lot of manipulation behind the scenes the overtones don’t match. So what may be technically in tune will sound off because of the pitch intensity effect.
There are practically no held notes in the Worcester concert from what was finally posted and the upper range is even thinner than before. In the trade, this is called lack of (muscular) support. Flight of fancy is to imagine
any serious comparison “to the best classical sopranos living and dead”.
CJ,
As always your comments are stimulating, but your tone! You remind me of my music teacher who would slap me on the wrist whenever my attention lapsed. She got my attention alright, but I was even less disposed to listen and obey.
Some of Jackie’s admirers — on my website, on Amazon, on the fan club — have long spoken about the need for formal professional training. Some have noted lapses in professionalism in the way her concerts are presented, in the way she is marketed, in her customer relations. Clearly, the less Jackie’s career is a handled as a family operation the better.
You are not alone in finding fault, then. The difference is our default position. We’re thrilled by many of Jackie’s performances. First we hear and praise he excellent qualities and only then do we focus on her flaws, reluctantly, because we wish to help, not hinder, her career.
A mature, self-assured person will accept and learn from good, well-meaning, criticism. I’d like to think that Jackie and her mother are that kind of person. Were Jackie and her mother to read your criticisms, however good they are, I’d forgive them for thinking them more malicious than well meaning, regardless of your intention.
@CJ – Thank you for the comment about pitch intensity effect. Can you elaborate a bit more? To my ears, Ms. Evancho sounds very off-pitch in various places throughout this song. She seems to hit most notes just flat and then adjust, and the final note is way off, to my ears. Am I hearing incorrectly?
CJ,
What gave you the idea that the general public was running to Jackie’s concerts before and they aren’t now. Jackie has always appealed to an older crowd. That has been discussed countless times before. You are not going to find screaming young teenagers at her concerts because of the genre she sings.
Lengthy posts ? Take it up with Jackson
I found Jackie’s voice as beautiful, smooth and stunningly mature. Vittorio’s voice is excellent but his vibrato is too harsh for me …. but then I don’t like operatic vibratos to begin with whether its Vittorio or Domingo or Carrerras.
I’ll let you have your opinion on Worcester :). I have my own.
Flight of fancy is to imagine flaws in the absence of any ! 🙂
Always remember that any and all explanations regarding flaws make absolutely no difference to fans ! JE’s fans are as devoutly besotted with her voice as you are with your critique. Try telling a religious person that God doesn’t exist …. you and Janey can tell me all day long how flawed her voice is …. its gonna fall on deaf ears. JE to this day has one of the most remarkably beautiful voices I’ve ever heard and I’ve heard plenty !
A small correction – THE most remarkably beautiful voice, to my ears anyway. Since I first saw Jackie on Britain’s got talent on 4 June 2011 I have listened to her every day, and travelled from UK to US seven times to see her in concert (the most recent to a packed house in Cupertino last Friday).
I guess some people just don’t get it though. In the words of her song:
Who can explain it?
Who can tell you why?
Fools give you reasons,
Wise men never try.
She doesn’t need to sharpen up her act to appeal to a wider audience, or anything as cynical as that. She just needs to keep singing with that magical voice and continue to be a charming down to earth person.
Anyone who tries to analyse her or her voice falls into the category of fool. Wise men just listen and enjoy.
I have no idea why Jackie and her voice have the effect they do on me. I do know that no singer has ever or will ever have the same effect as long as I live.
Anyone that doesn’t get it – just move on to another target. Jackie has done no harm to you, so leave her alone.
Food for thought. If I were Jackie’s Parents I would get her a classical vocal coach, then I would make them sign a non-disclosure agreement and wouldn’t tell anyone about it. Further more if I were a vocal coach I would make Jackie’s team sign a non disclosure agreement and wouldn’t tell anyone about it. As I’m not a vocal coach, what would those vocal coaches here do about disclosure if they were approached to coach Jackie?
@BOJOW My tone? You people sure have cause and effect mixed up. Obviously you haven’t read some of the choice attacks not only on me but on others who dare challenge the dogma of the Evancholists.
I thought about the cause of their anger and it couldn’t be stated better than the above-mentioned butterfly effect that you would all love to believe in, that untrained angel wings are going to cause a tsunami in the whole classical world.
No, not even a ripple, no effect at all! Her latest O Mio Babbino would not survive the first cut in Juilliard or even lesser music schools. You would all like to cock a snook at hard work and training because of the ingrained Star is Born mythology that simplifies achievement and brings it down to your levels. That is why so many of you are not ony smitten but downright indignant and even nasty.
Why should one tread softly on a multi-million dollar enterprise, serving warmed up leftovers to the public at inflated prices? Why are you all defensive about the Holy Family when most of you are not traveling on private jets? Lenin had a phrase for unquestioning self-sacrifing followers: “useful idiots”.
CJ,
Has Jackie ever stated she wants to go to Julliards? or for that matter that she wants to study at any prestigious or less prestigious music schools. No. So why would anyone care ! The high and mighty at these institutions will most likely spend their lives in relative obscurity unknown and unrecognized by the public at large.
Why are so vindictive against the “Holy Family”……. because they get to ride in private jets and you don’t???? I have a term for unknown self aggrandizing experts …. “lonely idiots”.
Julliards?
Instead of addressing the real words of the real person who wrote to you, you sputter a shamefully hostile, unthinking reply to the mindless idiot of your imagination (you people; down to your level, and so on; you employ the language and strategies of a prejudiced mind).
That’s too bad, because if you could suppress your loathing for a moment and read with comprehension what I wrote, you would see that I am inviting you to an adult, un-fevered conversation.
I am surprised the conductor of this site did not warn you for badgering your (in this case imagined) opponent. I was made to understand he had rules against that sort of thing. I cannot believe a man so obviously civilized could be guilty of preferential behavior.
@Ads The question is who would take the credit or blame? But admitting a teacher (not a coach who doesn’t teach vocal technique) would spoil the whole mythology of emerging pure and fully formed from the head of Jove.
However, listening to and watching recordings of Aled Jones, Charlotte Church and Sarah Brightman reveal a close similarity in style and repertoire. It seems that giants are still needed to climb onto their shoulders so as not to start from square one.
More food.
More than 10 years ago a young sports star, (under 16) edged their way into the adult professional arena and competed at the highest level for around a decade. Unfortunately this child’s parent had an unsavory disposition, the kind that you would normally link to alcohol or substance abuse however I’m not sure of the root cause. This resulted in a myriad of incidents from the ejection from events, blaming the authorities of event fixing, migrating to another country, and walking armed into the first countries embassy ending in a jail sentence. Eventually the young star in their mid 20’s estranging themselves from their family, to which the parent claimed to the media that the star had been kidnapped by their partner, to which the star made a public statement to the press stating that they were now estranged from their parents.
Undoubtedly this parent had done everything they deserve, to be awarded bad press.
However!
Should the newspaper have abstained from publishing information when that person was a minor? Given that the minor can then be subject to ridicule by their peers or suffer emotionally as a result. What damage are you going to do to a young person by publishing information about their parents in the national newspaper?
Please notice how I have hidden any information about the star above that would make the information google-able. I left out their gender, the sport, the armament, and the country’s, This person is now well over 20 and would not be shocked if I put in the detail, however I’m sure they don’t want it dug up again, If you workout who it is please don’t say, there is no prize for guessing.
Applying this to this situation.
Should we extend this model to public criticism of minors management teams, as well as parents.
No child should ever have to know that the world can read criticisms of their parents, managers, contracts, or any other situation that could damage them emotionally or peer relationships.
If you have a problem with the way a child is being managed, write a letter to the parents, or the management team. Keep in mind that there is probably a lot more going on than meets the eye, and most of our opinions are made with insufficient information. Don’t publish it in a blog, forum, twitter or any other broadcast media, even if you are right, it is entirely inappropriate.
If you do then you obviously think your opinion is more important, then the health and well-being of a child. Do you believe you have a duty of care to a child? I know I do!
Hopefully ethical culture will catchup with technology, and people will realize the power and responsibility when using broadcast media, not only in relation to minors but with all people.
@Janey From “Singing and Imagination”, by Thomas Helmsley, pp.93-94: It is generally accepted that the perceived pitch of a musical tone is a function of its frequency. What is not generally realized is that a pure tone… the perceived pitch will change with intensity or loudness… It explains why some singers, particularly with a preponderance of low frequencies in their voice…omitting to add high frequncies to the spectrum of sound, appear to be singing under pitch”.
Good composers and musicians are sensitive to the whole sound package, not only pitch but overtones. I discovered personally that I don’t blend very well with dramatic voices, particularly women, and usually refuse to sing duets with heavier sopranos because I feel as a possessor of a light voice, we don’t really blend due to the mismatch of overtones.
Operatic singers like Grigolo and even Sumi Jo make an effort to meet the crossover singer halfway by deadening some of their own overtones but this usually is done haphazardly and doesn’t really convince in the end.
One phenomenon that pops up time and again with singers who first make an audition to study, is a tone or timbre manufactured from imitating their admired singers. However, the game is up early because it is invariably a monochrome, one color, that limits the range of expression, in other words NOT free singing. Some popular singers can get by for years or even decades with a contrived tone, like Cher. It’s also not difficult for anyone to manufacture a murky sounding Marlene Dietrich by pushing the larynx down. I wouldn’t recommend it for young girls however. Janet
@AJ I don’t know why you bothered to write such a long post that is totally irrelevant and even uninteresting to me. Anyone selling a product, in this case a wildly profitable one, is open to scrutiny and rightly so. And who better to do it than professionals in the field?
Those who feel that something is not quite right are given a voice by those who know. Conventional wisdom inside the trade but commonsense nevertheless, is to LEARN a technique first before putting it before the public. Or at least have a constant professional monitor instead of ‘we’ll do it our way’ that ties up nicely with the angel from heaven mythology attached to it.
@CJ, Your first comment about blame and Jove is very valid. It does frustrate my question somewhat, and neither issue can be eliminated from the makeup of the question. What I was eluding to from a coaches perspective was celebrity. A high profile performer could attract criticism towards the coach, weather or not justified, this could be damaging to the coaches brand. Secondly you might end up with an endless line of requests from the wrong kind of customer. So the question is would you as a coach or teacher, value anonymity?
I didn’t get what you meant by giants, my guess was it was either record companies and defined business models that circumvent trod-ding your way up the ranks, or singing a certain way to avoid years of training? Again a valid question, it might effect the brand of the coach, is this what your mean?
@AJ Incidentally, no one said that being in the spotlight constantly from an early age, having to monitor one’s activities with the snooping public always in the background or foreground, to not really have a private life in other words, to be the recipient of effusive prasie that obscures any possible constructive criticism that might actually help, not only opting out of normal schooling and peer groups, but catering to the parents’ and even grandparents’ tastes, to run a definite risk of ruining the future in exchange for the present and not really having a choice or opinion about it (for all you know maybe she would like to go to a top music school and eventually sing opera but what is it your business anyway to decide for her?) how can you or anyone imagine that all of the preceding and more are in the girl’s best interests? It’s more about self-gratification of the fans and I cite Best of Hackie on the Web as evidence.
Should have proofread the above, please excuse the typos.
Oops another mistake (I was too much in a hurry several hours ago). The long post was by Ads and not AJ. Also was missing: no one said it was ‘healthy’, i.e., the unrealistic bubble world that prodigies are frequently living in.
@Ads Issac Newton wrote: “If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants”. In music as in dance, the pedigree or geneology of teachers is considered very important and revealing as to the end products who may or may not pass on the tradition. It is interesting to trace back Maria Callas’ conductor and coach in Italy, Tullio Serafin, to the other singers he influenced while he was in the Met 20 years earlier, like Rosa Ponselle and others at the top of their professions.
Giving due credit and respect towards one’s teacher(s)in classical music is practically as obligatory as with any Sensei in the Orient.
So you did hit upon a salient point that borrowed publicity and heightened earning power might be the result of teaching an already high profile performer. Why should he or she benefit? But that is not the normal sequence of events, in other words, doing it all on one’s own steam and see how far one can go on self-generated energy, a risky proposition I might add…
Cabbagejuice talks a lot of sense. Anyone who sincerely wishes Jackie Evancho to be around in ten years’ time should pay attention to what she has to say.
What CJ says, she ‘s been saying for the past three years with the prediction that Jackie by age 13 would have no voice left. That hasn’t come to pass so the next prediction is that she will lose her voice at age 16. Needless to say, I won’t be holding my breath. I’d rather enjoy the music and leave the rest to Jackie, her parents and her team. Ultimately, they are the ones who will influence Jackie’s career more so than any of us!
@CJ, I agree with the sensei parallel for opera singers, however Jackie is CC which is a totally different distribution media based on the pop music distribution business model not the opera house business model. Celebrity is an essential part of this model, we are all aware of the pitfalls of celebrity and hence the question would you value your anonymity?
@Ads Are you all really aware of the pitfalls of celebrity and how it may negatively impact young people, setting them up for expectations for the rest of their lives that they will never be able to recover? Being a coach for the famous is taking the golden ring at a carousel. Why would anyone want to share fame and money with a teacher?
The point here is that some defects could be easily righted with proper tuition like breathing and diction. Being stubborn about having no training therefore compounding mistakes can even result in eventually ruining the voice. It has happened time and again, no joke.
CJ,
Where did you read that she has no training. Everyone knows that she is undergoing some sort of training / coaching. The details are not clear as to who the coach is or what type of training.
You can certainly speculate the other way and assume she isn’t getting any training but it would be just that … speculation not fact.
‘Undergoing training’ sounds like ‘undergoing therapy’; some sort of necessary evil. Every performer needs it. Michael Jackson, Madonna et al took lessons from Seth Riggs, who also teaches (taught?) classical technique.
I love to see Jackie share her voice with so many great artists as the comparison value in a duet allows the world to appreciate just how incredible her voice really is. I am hoping she will duet with Placido Domingo soon, as he is also on the Sony Masterworks label.
Listening to the latest offering from Jackie still brings that level of calmness and joy of wonder she evoked the very first time I heard her sing. Reading such comments of negativity from sour cabbages and sock-puppets also still makes me appreciate how happy I am to be able to enjoy such a pure voice for what it is, and not be burdened with the self-manufactured minutiae some find comforting in lieu of having the ability to just enjoy Jackie Evancho for the gift she brings to us.
@CJ Yes I’m very aware of the pitfalls, yes I know your position on the matter of training, but let’s see if you can answer this simple question. Would you want to remain anonymous?
@Ads Of course not. I take responsibility for my work.
That’s odd, you have refused time and time again to name any who have learned anything from working with you.
So take responsibility for your work and give one example of anyone who has learned anything from you.
Placido Domingo, indeed, what a mismatch besides being old enough to be her grandather! Most of you people can’t stand opera singing anyway, say it’s screechy. Somehow I don’t think he would dampen his organ-like operatic overtones to accomodate the flute quality of a young girl.
CJ,
If Sumi Jo, Dmitri, Jose Carerras, and Vittorio Grigolo collaborated with Jackie, why not Domingo. Who knows he might do something with Jackie too ! She seems to be doing really well with concert performances and private gigs. Has a pretty steady source of income …. At least 500k-750k per year from just concerts alone ….. at age 13!
I would rather she duet with Mario Frangoulis or Alessandro Safina. Domingo’s voice is shot; his vibrato is as wide as the Grand Canyon.
@CJ Would you imagine you would be required to sign a confidentiality agreement?
@AJ Not speculation at all, rather a considered professional opinion. Hers does not sound like a trained voice. Coahing as I mentioned is something else, having a repetiteur drill the music and text.
I certainly hope Jackie’s voice doesn’t sound like a trained voice. Then she’d sound like everyone else. My greatest concern with extensive training is that they’ll drill the beauty out of her voice. Most of her fans don’t want her to sound like an opera singer like Fleming, Bartoli, or Callas. Her tone, vibrato and timbre are absolutely gorgeous regardless of how she produces the sound.
You are certainly entitled to rate her as a professional teacher but then you are one of thousands out there who all want their opinion heard. And most of them don’t exactly agree on everything regarding Jackie’s voice!
Fleming, Bartoli, and Callas sound nothing alike. There isn’t a homogeneous “trained singer” sound. If you’re aiming to be in anything for the long haul, you should have a strong foundation. All of those women did have excellent technique (Callas’s decline when still relatively young was sad, but there were many factors at play there; it did not happen because she did not know how to sing).
@Yes Addison,
Yes they all sound very well trained. I thought I said that. I’m sure they all have excellent technique but I don’t really care for it. I recently discovered Fleming also does Jazz and pop. Like her jazz voice better than her soprano voice. I like songs from each of the greats you mentioned … Just can’t listen to them all day long. Jackie …. I can!
What a limited musical curiosity you must have. I love Puccini, but it doesn’t mean listenening to ‘O mio babbino caro….’ et al. ad nauseam……sung by a child (sorry, ex-child).
Derek,
You seem really disturbed by your perception of my limited musical curiosity that extends over several genres, cultures and languages. :).
No harm in listening to an ex-child especially if the ex child has been endorsed by Sumi Jo, Dmitri and Jose Carreras and not a single professional soprano or tenor has publicly criticized or condemned the ex-child. Its okay to listen to her. No need to feel so insecure and nor would it be deemed as trecherous to the opera community which, by the way, is evolving and changing as we speak !
Its okay….go for it. Take a listen to the ex-child! You minght bve surprised how good she sounds .. heck … she might even move you to tears 🙂
@Ads What would be the trade off for forfeiting benefits accrued from basking in the reflected glory of the finished product?
@CJ Very good point, I would imagine a celebrity would also require attention outside of the normal set weekly roster. Compensation for both this and non disclosure would be expected.
I have to sign non disclosures in my line of work, (mining), as a result when I deliver conference papers I need to get clearance from the communications departments of those companies. Recently a conference organizer listed one of my past customers in the advertising brochure and the customer contacted me and said I would have to have the paper cleared by their communicators department. Too much red tape, so I remove all references to products and customers from everything I do.
I would imagine if the tabloid press where to approach the contracted person of service about even fringe information about another family member, it would be much easier to have a blanket ban and have to approve any information release through the celebrities management. This is the standard approach in most business these days.
One reason why I thought you might opt for a non disclosure yourself is to stop getting an endless stream of stage parents coming your way. Getting the client for one semester only having them pulled out by their parents aren’t getting what they expected. Or having to vet out a barrage of these customers at no benefit to you.
@AJ I never said that 1) Jackie will lost her voice by age 13 or 2) doing it for three years simply because I was not aware of her back then. I do think that she can even be better than what she is now with some proper tuition. The catch with that would be going underground for a few years like Beverly Sills did and who emerged as a strong soprano rather than someone who is dependent on amplification. There is where training comes in, to be able to sing freely without Mr. Mike. Also the murky timbre would probably disappear when the line is smoothed out, its main distinguishing feature.
CJ,
I have no doubt that she will get better with coaching and training. My concern is what kind of training and what it will do with her voice. For example, the murky timbre is something that makes her distinctive. I wouldn’t want that to go away.
As far as singing without a mic. Whatever for. Even opera singers nowadays are using mics especially if you have venues that can accommodate 10K people or more. I’m not sure why singing without a mic is considered such a mark of distinction. Perhaps for opera buffs but Jackie has no interest yet in being an opera singer nor do I think does she want to lay low for a few years. I just don’t see that happening.
Photo of Jackie taken in Bali
path.com/p/38DYUV
Here is a sharper picture:
images.path.com/photos2/d6a50a02-a81c-4aeb-b7eb-4055777d0e38/original.jpg
Edit add: after picture loads, click on it for the sharpest picture.
@AJ There you go again, gratification of the fans is more important. But didn’t she say she would like to sing the Flower Duet from Lakme and was even toying around with Rachmaninoff’s Vocalise? They are completely out of the question for now.
Good training makes a singer more like herself and not a cheap imitation of anyone else. While increasing the pitch possibilities plus muscular strength that takes pressure off the vocal cords, the range of expression is dramatically increased. By chance yesterday I heard a recording of Kathy Berberian on the radio from 1968, and that lady could sing ANYTHING!
Stubborn anti-intellectualism is a hindrance rather than a help.
CJ,
You talk as if Jackie sang opera arias all day long. Of her 70+ repertoire she only sings 3 operatic arias of which one (Nessun Dorma) she hasn’t sung in over two years. And she only sang ND five times.
Lakme and Vocalise are challenging and you and I know that if and when Jackie decides to sing them, nothing is going to stop her … and fans don’t want to. How would they anyways….picket outside her house ???
At top-tier conservatories, the Vocalise is forbidden for first year graduate students and the vast majority of second years. No kid should be attempting it without proper vocal training and supervision.
Your comment brings several things to mind. At the risk of sounding redundant I’ll repeat them again :
1. Jackie Evancho is not an opera singer, and does not want to be an opera singer.
2. She has never, to date, expressed the slightest desire to join any conservatory.
3. She averages about 20 to 22 concerts a year and about 4 concerts a month with several months off from concerts.
4. To date she has only sung 3 arias of which she only sings 2 at regular intervals.
5. She sings with the aid of a mic which means she doesn’t need to sing at the top of her yet tiny lungs to be heard.
6. She periodically sees top doctors to monitor her voice and vocal chords.
The above may not alleviate all risks to her vocal chords but certainly go a long way to minimize any potential risks.
Private party in Bali, right?
Private Wedding in Bali hosted by MultiBillionaire Dr Satiawan from Indonesia. Jackie was invited to perform.
It was a billionaire industrialist’s wedding.
MultiBillionaire Dr Satiawan’s name-sake grandson was the one who got married.
@AJ Singing with a mike is more of a crutch than anything else. Instead of having to develop the supporting muscles that take pressure off the cords, it encourages a certain kind of complacency, that of course will not come to the rescue when attmepting Rachmaninoff or Delibes.
CJ,
Are you saying that singing unamplified is less risky that singing with a mic. you must be kidding !
@CJ what do you recon? If Jackie does have a coach or a trainer what is the probability that it is wrapped up in a non disclosure from either party?
Probably more profitable than singing in a half empty hall.
CJ,
Even more profitable than a full concert hall. Her fee for international events is about 3 to 4 times more than local concerts.
By the way, her concert in Florida for 2014 is already sold out.
Her Florida concert has NOT sold out. There’s 80% of the seats available.
Charles,
There are two concerts in Florida. Miami on Jan 3rd and Melbourne on Jan 5th 2014. I was talking about Melbourne.
Based on the seating chart for the event, it has a seating capacity of 2,000 of which 1,952 have sold, which makes it an ‘effective’ sell-out…
AJ,
The tickets for Melbourne have been sold to scalpers, not the general public.
Charles,
Is that you opinion or do you have a llnk that I can go to for that information. Not saying you’re wrong or right but it is an interesting thought. Can’t conceive a venue selling 90% of tickets to scalpers.
AJ,
Just search ‘jackie evancho melbourne tickets’ and you’ll find a list of resale market sites as long as your arm, trying to achieve exorbitant prices for their tickets.
Charles,
I was about to embark on a fishing expedition and realised you sound familiar. Think I know a lot about your lopsided opinion.
Thanks for the tip. I guess time will tell the truth of what you say 🙂
There was a coach in one of the above cited tweets. A voice teacher, not trainer (!), would not permit an unfinished product to be put on the stage.
Amplification encourages laziness when the supporting muscles should be developed instead,
Now On Youtube
Vittorio Grigolo & Jackie Evancho – O Holy Night
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34NeZKcWbTI
Oh I hate this! Her voice is maturing very nicely, but one couldn’t have produced a more sickly sweet performance if one tried!
I sing this, and normally do so in French – the words make better sense. I can sing with controlled portamento, an Miss Evancho was using her portamento to cover placing problems. She also appeared to breathing every second bar.
I’d like to see Jackie have a long and fulfilling career as the girl actually has talent. However she needs to do some serious work on her breathing technique first.
The idea of her singing the Rachmaninov Vocalise is proposterous – I sing that too and one needs a cast-iron breathing technique or the intonation just goes. The same is true with the Flower Duet from Lakme. To do it justice one needs to be capable of singing other bits of Lakme’s part like the Bell song. Now as a singing teacher I would not give that to a 13 year old. Her voice needs to settle first.
I teach my own son who is a year older, but I’m not about to exploit him and make him perform 70 odd gigs a year as a young tenor. He needs to have a life and allow his voice to fully emerge.
Compare Jackie with a butterfly and her wings are still damp. They need time to dry out before she attempts any serious flying. When she’s ready, if she’s given the chance to build technique rather than perform her way into an ENT surgeon’s room then she could really fly.
Joanna, thanks for your commentary.
As far as the number of gigs I believe that has been exaggerated in this thread. By my count Jackie will have performed 23 full concerts in 2013 when the year is done along with a half dozen or so special events for a total of around 30 gigs.
The full concerts consist of 12 or 13 songs with a break after every third song. The special events range from one to six or seven songs. She took three months off during the summer. Perhaps still a lot of work but not as extensive as it could be.
CJ,
What unfinished product! She’s not trying to be an opera singer….doesn’t want to be one …. Doesn’t need to be one. She’s making plenty of money singing what she sings, the way she sings! And obviously, so far, people like what she sings and how she sings!
I LOVED the new more mature-sounding Jackie in this new collaboration with Vittorio Grigolo. Just beautiful. Go Jackie! and never-mind the haters and ignoramuses here. Especially the owner of this site who calls you an “ex-child?!” What?? Since when is a 13 year old no longer a child??? Dumb. So you have boobs. Thank God! You’re NORMAL! She’s just a normal 13 year old Mr Perv and Ms Hater (Twitter pic critic). Maybe you have no boobs? And Mr website owner, obviously you let the boobs affect your brain in suddenly calling this naturally developing CHILD!…and “ex-child” Jackie nevermind these idiots, just keep singing for us, the people who appreciate and love you for your REAL talents! You’re still BRILLIANT! LoveYa 🙂
I find nothing wrong in referring to Jackie as an “ex-child” singer. It could be accepted as a compliment for becoming a singer in her own right beyond the notability as the “child” singer.
Jackie is not an adult but she is growing into a young lady, as demonstrated at her Capital Fourth performance and from her Bali event pictured here.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=651655201531572&set=a.561786003851826.1073741825.493598347337259&type=1&theater
I did find it curious that Mr. Lebrecht continues to use older photos of Jackie, but perhaps there aren’t any newer ones in Jackie’s media-kit that are available for public domain use in publications like this blog. .
P.S.
It is odd you addressing Jackie directly in these comments. Do you think that maybe she’s a closet fan of Norman and reading here? 🙂
I am in utter shock by this last comment. So we were supposed to notice (too ashamed to say) b##bs in that picture!!! What normal family would want their daughter being talked about in such a manner, much less the alleged unimpeachable “holy family”? UGH!!!
PS I don’t find problems with pitch in the Holy Night except that it seems like Grigolo is trying to adjust his voice to hers that doesn’t convince me very much. Somehow reminiscent of Carreras singing West Side Story in English.
Yeah, billionaires are not inconvenienced by cancelled train, plane or hotel reservations.
Correct ! Billionaires are not inconvenienced. They pay a lot more to avoid being inconvenienced. Nothing wrong with that !
@Jay Jackson It’s because I won’t stoop to the level of such a stupid provocation. At least my life is not made meaningful by glomming onto the activities of a 13 year old.
It’s even more than odd that you spend so much time, and make so many comments, on the activities of a 13 year old who does not mean anything to you.
Ads says:
October 25, 2013 at 9:50 am
@CJ Yes I’m very aware of the pitfalls, yes I know your position on the matter of training, but let’s see if you can answer this simple question. Would you want to remain anonymous?
cabbagejuice says:
October 25, 2013 at 2:55 pm
@Ads Of course not. I take responsibility for my work.
Jay Jackson says:
October 28, 2013 at 1:09 pm
That’s odd, you have refused time and time again to name any who have learned anything from working with you.
So take responsibility for your work and give one example of anyone who has learned anything from you.
cabbagejuice says:
October 28, 2013 at 6:27 pm
@Jay Jackson It’s because I won’t stoop to the level of such a stupid provocation. At least my life is not made meaningful by glomming onto the activities of a 13 year old.
So if you had a famous talent like Jackie, you would not remain anonymous, and would not stoop to not remaining anonymous. No wait that can’t be right…you would stoop to not being anonymous without any stupid provocation…no you mean…all the success would be yours.
@AJ The breadwinner of the family couldn’t refuse a gig like that. After all it is a family business. Loyal fans who pay less are expendable.
Nobody would refuse a gig like that, not even you [redacted: abuse].
CJ,
The bread winner is following her dreams because of the family. yes it is very much a family business otherwise no 10, 11 12 year old would be where she is today:).. Loyal fans are more tolerant than non fans.
@AJ I am not anonymous in the circles I move in. The opposite of worldwide fame is not anonymity. Read Emily Dickenson who didn’t need public stroking or validation from others, a genius nevertheless:
“How dreary to be somebody!
How public like a frog
To tell one’s name the livelong day
To an admiring bog!”
CJ,
I’m not anonymous in the circles that i move in either. But what does that have to do with anything.
By the way Emily Dickenson didn’t go around putting everyone else down. No comparison there. Your insinuation is either you are a subject matter expert or are well known. Both irrelevant in my opinion.
@Everett Coks Believe it or no, not everyone can be bought. Three concerts were cancelled, one at practically the last minute. The bottom line not virtue, seems to be the guiding principle.
Norman, are posters allowed to insult other posters?
No. If someone has been abusive, please report it with link.
@cabbagejuice,
You do not know why the Loveland concert was cancelled. We can be fairly sure that it was not because of the wedding in Bali because they knew about that long before hand. Most likely it was because of the flooding.
But of course you never want to miss an excuse to speak evil of others.
Is it not time to close this thread?
Everett wrote some unseemly and untrue things about me (here today 7:45 AM)
@Jay Jackson Not evil but pointing out simple pragmatism.
The flood in Loveland was September 12th. On October 17 a benefit by musicians was held in the same Budweiser Hall, two days before the JE concert of which half of the tickets were unsold. This would have been a great opportunity to show sympathy and solidarity.
Your fellow fan above admitted that international gigs are 3-4 times more remunerative.
Yes [the rest of this email has been redacted for aggression bordering on trolling; further comments from this source will be spammed out].
@CJ,
So that proves what ??? That the 13 year old and her family are insensitive money grabbing sycophants and so that diminishes the talent of the 13 year old ?????
You can’t be serious !
@AJ Doesn’t diminish the talent at all. No one said that.
Loveland concert was cancelled because of flood.
If CJ is right about the musicians’ benefit concert it’s obvious the flood had nothing to do with her cancellation and everything to do with poor ticket sales.
@KnightlyOnce Please read the above. The flood was a month before. The hall was in use two days before the scheduled concert. It seems like rational thinking and logic are not strong points with true believer fans.
@cabbagejuice
Hall was used to give a benefit to aid flood victims. 6 weeks after flood some towns are still without power. The flood wiped out bridges damaged so many roads repairs are estimated at over $450 million.
Entertainment is not high anyone’s wish list there. Short notice for cancellation was result of hoping things would improve quicker than they did.
“It seems like rational thinking and logic are not strong points with true believer fans.” Here is a rational observation and a logical conclusion: Over the course of half-a-dozen NL threads about JE, CJ has insinuated (she is careful never to assert) that JE’s parents are putting her voice, a potential adult career, and even psychological state at risk for the sake of monetary gain. They manipulate her not just by putting up on stage by (again she hedges) possibly by having her voice trained in such a way that she successfully manipulates all those silver-haired men who make up a large part of her fan demographic, men who (most of whom) know nothing and care less about classical music.
For the sake of the many hard-working, impoverished music students who will never gain the recognition and success they deserve, she resents JE”s (as she sees it) undeserved attention and monetary success. She has said a number of times that she has nothing against the girl. It’s the girl’s handlers who are to be faulted, including, nay, most of all, her parents.
Should anyone think I’m mischaracterizing CJ, I can assure I’m not. In preparation for an article, I’m working my way through the 50,000 plus words she has contribute to Norman’s blog. (No, I’m not obsessed; CJ’s writing is a gold mine of quotable quotes.)
There is much to take seriously about CJ’s observations, analysis, and criticism. She appreciates music intellectually as much or more than she does emotionally. That’s fine, laudable even. It’s too bad, though, that she has little patience and less sympathy for those who, not being trained, can only respond to music only emotionally.
The conclusion she reaches (well, almost reaches) is that legitimate appreciation of fine music is the property of the intellectually initiated. (“Well, guess what? Perception of good music is similar to appreciation of Shakespeare. It doesn’t drop from trees or punch you in the gut with emotion. It takes work and effort to understand the language.” “Emotional response in an audience” is a loaded concept. I can’t help but thinking emotional mobs listening to and reacting to certain dictators’ oratory and going out to wreak mayhem. For most classical listeners, music is an intellectual experience, not only an emotional one. And there is just as much, if not more pleasure in that.”)
As a professor of English literature and I can say that my appreciation of Bleak House is more complex and deep than that of my first year students. But I never look down my nose at my students’ emotional reaction to the text. Instead, I credit their reaction and use it to lead them to an intellectual understanding of their emotional response. The end product is a reader whose appreciation of the text is not legitimized but extended. If only CJ would stroke instead of kick the uninitiated she might have a few converts. (Were she to say, I don’t care if I convince anyone or not, then I would ask, what is the purpose in your writing 50,000+ words on the subject?).
CJ’s corpus (there is so much of it deserves the term) ought to be read disinterestedly because a good part of what she says is intelligent and insightful. But look down her nose she does and in doing so turns some of her readers against her.
@AJ You wrote: “She’s not trying to be an opera singer….doesn’t want to be one …. Doesn’t need to be one. She’s making plenty of money singing what she sings.”
I couldn’t help thinking that the problem with sales might have to do with the narrowness of the repertoire and style. It’s like being stuck in a tube and doing something 10 or 7562 times not being free enough to breakthrough and expand one’s range of expression. The latter is the gift of training.
@cabbagejuice
Well this imagined “problem with sales” for Jackie should be a windfall for those who are gifted with years and years of training. Having broken through and expanding their range of expression they can swoop in and fill the void.
Expanding ones range has as much to do with selection of repertoire as gift if training. JE has quite a range for a CC singer and her repertoire is growing , with or without training . So being in a tube 7562 times is a matter of opinion … Not a fact 🙂
@bestofjackieontheweb What I have written on blogs is only a drop in the bucket, a small reality check in an ocean of constantly gushing incessant praise, some of it bordering on and even passing pathological. I can understand a few pics of one’s favorite singer but a hundreds of different poses and costumes on sits like your own? She’s not even an adult yet. That’s not over the top? (Maybe not in a narcissistic society.) Miracle, angel, sent by God – oh puleeze! Give us all a break!
Much of what I wrote was to defend myself against angry old men who can’t stand a word of well-considered professional criticism and respond in an ugly manner, the strange flip side of sweetness and light. So I pretty much lost my patience for trying to explain things rationally. Other times, I have been asked to comment on the finer points of technique or on general music.
You suggested that I should instead write letters to the team that will not probably even read much less consider because surely they have heard the same concerns over again by others that reinforcing bad habits even with a pleasant sounding result for the present is a very bad and even harmful approach. But hey, I gained my knowledge with much effort and money. In general I am paid for my consultations. Consider yourself lucky if you got it for free.
Further to bestofjackieontheweb who claims she is preparing an article on my “corpus”: The word “convert” is belief terminology that I don’t subscribe to in music, nor am interested in convincing anyone of anything. Just stating the facts, ma’am.
Somehow I thought that you would pop up again, never dreaming you dropped out to do extensive research on my writing that includes counting the number of words.
Did your homework, teach, a fine example for your students! Only your conclusions get several red X’s and an overall F.
Your thesis on CJ’s remarks might come in handy, an exercise in how to neutralize criticism while at the same time honing your skills in turning the object of nasty remarks into a person who invited them in the first place according to you! You’ll be the savior to anyone who has regarded me as a pesky gadfly.
Do you lecture at Play Nice University where diversity is celebrated
except if one happens to disagree with current politically correct ideology? Passion for music and/or truth has a certain emotional charge to that might come off as too strong for some (Tip Toe through the Tulips 101 or Stroking Sensitivity 202). In such settings, one is not supposed to have any deep convictions about anything, much less express them for fear of attracting attention of the thought police.
Go ahead, make my day and write an article, you don’t know a thing about me.
BTW my quotable quotes are copyrighted.
BTW my quotable quotes are copyrighted.
Really?? [redacted: trolling. final warning]
@CJ BOJONW did not suggest that you should write a letter to the team, that was me. You have a shot at BOJONW for researching what you have written, when this is a responsible practice that you should learn from.
A bit like when you criticize the lack of training of a 13 year old girl when it is quite apparent that you could not possibly know all the details as non-disclosure agreements are most likely in place. And until you hear from the horses mouth otherwise the rational thing to do is abstain from such comments in a broadcast medium. Got an issue send a private letter or email.
Criticism of a minors handling in such broadcast medium is irrational, illogical and unethical regardless if you have the facts or not, and the facts you can’t possibly have. Your deep conviction doesn’t justify your behavior. Yes some of her fans make uneducated over the top comments in her favor but this doesn’t justify the direction of your criticism, two wrongs don’t make a right.
Same goes to all the so called fans out there that criticize her PR handling cancelling of concerts or anything else. She is a minor so not in a broadcast medium, got a problem send a letter or email. And furthermore you can’t possibly have all the facts.
I’m not saying you can’t have you’re believes, thoughts or even discuss it. Just don’t put it in a place where Google can find it.
Since I am not obsessed about the subject, I do not spend time in the numerous Jackie forums, don’t have the time anyway. Therefore I was not aware that the editor of BoJotW was actually John Mitchell who engaged me in a discussion on this site under that name before. I had just assumed that anyone talking about stroking in a tone of petty vindictiveness must have been a woman. But really I should have more faith in my own gender group.
My interest from the beginning was to ascertain whether this phenomenon was an exception to the rules or the exception that proved them. After a recent visit to the same website, the problem has finally been resolved for myself but I was not prepared to be so astonished. As a teacher I know how things go, how students like to imitate their idols. This usually pans out within a few lessons when they are disabused of that idea and learn to find their own voice instead and embrace that, even if it seems strange or even unwanted at first. This is the beauty of learning singing because you get to be you and no one else.
Imitation is expected in learning therefore the obvious similarities to Aled Jones, Sarah Brightman and Charlotte Church didn’t concern me too much. Some pieces sung by Jackie like “Lovers” I thought had an uncanny knack for phrasing which she may very well have. I was not prepared to be so gobsmacked after listening to Kathleen Battle singing the same piece that has almost word for word, sigh by sigh, practically every detail of articulation that I heard in Jackie’s rendition. Battle’s “Ombra mai Fu” and “O Mio Babbino” cannot but have been the models from which exact copies were made of visual expressions as well. The crucial difference is that Battle sings with a real technique not dependent on amplification and doesn’t mince words. The irony is of course that most Jackie fans can’t stand opera nor opera singers!
I must admit that I am stunned by this new use of technology, the possibility of playing over and over again a video until it is totally assimilated. There are piano and violin teachers, many of them from the Far East and Russia who drill their students to do EXACTLY what the teacher says and does but singing has been somehow set apart from rote learning, being more individual by nature.
Couple the phrasing and visuals of a video performance with the serendipitous discovery of dropping the larynx and pushing the sound into the resonators and you have an incredible winning combination, a girl who not only sounds like a woman but has the phrasing of a seasoned artist!
Assimilation by imitation would explain quite a few other anomalies, the inflexibility of the repertoire and the avoidance of real tuition. The game would be found out and dissipated. The pseudo-mystery of channelling spirits or angels would evaporate. It would also explain the extreme defensiveness of the fans, some of whom are probably aware of what’s really going on.
I really feel sorry for the girl in the middle of all this.
CJ,
Only two posters have ever compared Jackie to Aled Jones.
CJ,
You have a tendency to repeat the same thing over and over again…..without any obvious effect on anyone’s opinion. For someone who denies any obsession with the doings of a 13 year old you seem to have spent a tremendous amount of time (21/2 to 3 years) discussing the same issues again and again…..without ever convincing anyone other than yourself.
In the meantime the object of your obsession continues to increase her bank balance and her fame totally oblivious to your opinion / expertise. Her success is probably the loudest response to your objections … without her ever saying a word.
@AJ Only two posters in the world spell the New York School of Music, Juilliards.
CJ,
And your point is ……????
CJ has upon occasion taken umbridge when another poster has mischaracterized her. She refused to contribute to my website because she believes I would distort her words. She has more than once stated that she has never insulted another commenter, that she never attacks but only defends.
I mention this because mischaracterization, distortion, insult, and gratuitous attack exactly describe her treatment of me. Imagine speaking so negatively about someone who only asks for a civil, mutually respectful conversation.
BTW, I completed the article on CJ. It consists almost entirely of her own words, without comment or characterization. I ran it past my ad hoc editorial committee and they rejected it, for a variety of reasons, one of which was that it was too long. It was indeed long, by far the longest article ever created for the website. To be fair to CJ I did not rely upon single quotations to demonstrate her themes, arguments and observations. If anyone cares to have a copy of the article, contact me via the email on my website (under About).
For your interest, here is the introduction to my rejected article:
On another blog a singing teacher of many years’ experience, cabbagejuice, has posted over 50,000 words on Jackie Evancho. That alone is reason enough to notice her. She’s knowledgeable about singing technique and she’s one of the few people in her field who writes about Jackie.
I asked her to consider contributing a piece for this website. She rebuffed me and, for good measure, chastised me by association. No doubt I deserved the chastisement.
“CJ to @Best of Jackie on the Web … I would not bother to contribute to a saccarine dripping personality cult. It’s really over the top to luxuriate in that kind of thing, particularly after chronological adolescence.”
What appears below are her own words grouped by theme, not necessarily in chronological order. In quoting her I’ve changed nothing, added nothing. Of course there is a context to each of her statements; to find that context, do an online search of a word string.
cabbagejuice (CJ) is a credible authority in her field. You might not like that she paints Jackie Evancho’s admirers with broad and damning strokes. But she writes knowledgeably about singing and for that reason she deserves to be read. In any case, it’s good exercise to grapple with ideas that are not your own:
“I cannot praise a fugitive and cloister’d vertue, unexercis’d & unbreath’d, that never sallies out and sees her adversary, but slinks out of the race, where that immortall garland is to be run for, not without dust and heat.”
By all means, let her thoughts provoke yours and, if you wish, leave a comment. Note that comments to this website must be civil, rational, and non-personal. If you wish to challenge what you read here, challenge the idea, observation, argument or evidence. Personal and pre-emptive criticisms will be removed.
@AJ 1) I’m talking about phrasing and nuance that are so alike. Remember how the whole process started with imitating a vid of Phantom of the Opera at the age of 10? One does not need a non-disclosure agreement for a teacher comprised of youtube vids (re: Ads).
Hearing the Battle performances clinched it for me, I finally got it.
2) Only if the two people are one and the same, who also have a habit of using terms like “flight of fancy”.
2)
CJ,
1) I think your response was meant for ADS. Not sure what you finally got. For me hearing her on AGT was incredible and the Battle version finally clinched it for me. Jackie was a prodigy like no other. Not perfect (it didn’t matter) but one with one of the most beautiful voices I’d ever heard or will ever hear.
2) People who use the same terms often turn out to be the same person. Terms like “support”, ”unfinished product’ etc. These terms are very much in use in the opera world but only among two people among Jackie’s detractors. Are they the same person ?
It’s good to see that Jackie can still enjoy some of the childhood joys like Halloween.
http://pic.twitter.com/dLOh13j0Xb
@bestofjackieontheweb How fascinating, John or Nemo, whatever you call yourself, as an English teacher should be aware of the concept, ‘fair use’.
“It consists almost entirely of her own words.”
Well, that looks like far beyond the legal limit for using another’s writing and not for benevolent purposes but to put the writer in a bad light.
I have excellent legal counsel. Can’t wait for them to see your article, Cap’n!
@AJ Imitation might be a high form of flattery but to that extent as in the song, “Lovers”, it is just not right. I wouldn’t like it if someone literally copies my interpretation and of course gave no credit to me, pretending as though this dropped from the sky. Believe it or not, much effort and time is inversted in interpretation. What nerve to just come and just take it, like ha, ha. I beat you at your own game! Copyright should apply here as it would in the case of choreography. To me such behavior is a form of plagiarism.
Hearing Battle was the last puzzle piece for me to finally understand what is going on. I think the whole scene is despicable that I have no more interest in. It does not deserve to be taken seriously at all.
CJ,
Can you tell me what exactly all these sopranos and tenors are doing singing the same arias over and over again that were sung by others. Do you think all the great opera singers of old are turning in their graves because others are singing their arias???
You understand the lunacy of the logic that you’re trying to present. Don’t you think its dispicable for the opera singers to sing arias that were originally sung by others 🙂 None of the opera singers therefore should be taken seriously !
That being said, Jackie’s rendition of Lovers is a phenomenal achievement not only by a 11 year old but any singer of any age. Who cares if its a cover….by that standard so are all the operatic arias being sung today !
@AJ Maybe to YOUR uneducated ears operatic arias sound the same but they are not. But at least classical singers give credit to their teachers. If “Lovers” were a drawing, it would be like tracing paper were put over it and copied exactly. And not only that but quite a few others, too.
I don’t think it is a phenomenal achievement for a kid to imitate. They do it all the time. That is the way they learn. Most of the violin and piano prodigies fall into that category. It can only be imagined how many times a kid would be confronted with an aria or song in order to assimilate it so completely that it would seem coming from him or her (or from chanelling spirits). That’s what I find bad and wrong.
I am really turned off by the whole business and have no real interest in it anymore now that the problem of “exception to the rules or proving them” has been solved for me.
CJ
If my uneducated ears can clearly tell the differences between Battle’s version and JE’s why can’t your educated ear?
I’m glad you’ve solved the problem of “exception to the rule” and can now leave the forum with operatic pride intact. Though if you had asked most of us we could have saved you the trouble and told you what we all discovered in 2010… We’ve got ourselves a prodigy like no other ! And she will leave her mark on music!
@AJ Then what was the reason the comparison vid with Battle pulled from youtube, too close for comfort? When all the vids run out to copy, then what? Making a mark on music by imitating everyone? You really should go back to yur own tube.
@CJ
I have no idea why the video was pulled or who posted or pulled the video. I saw it and thought it was great !
What’s wrong with making a mark on music by copying others …. It’s better than leaving no mark!
What mark do you plan on leaving . Perhaps a small footnote to the history that JE might be destined for. 🙂
@AJ At least I won’t be known as having been a plagiarist or moocher of someone else’s work or singing in a faked voice.
@CJ
If you’re not known at all it won’t really matter and no one will really care! Some go out with a bang, others with a dull thud!
Jackie’s mother Lisa Evancho has spoken! As reported from the Amazon fan club, Lisa has finally reemerged from hibernation with some insights into what is the subject of this blog entry. No matter the headline, the comments at Slipped Disc about Jackie always devolve into heated debates about about her singing technique and quality of her childhood. This is something that is relative to the topic of this blog entry.
Her comments are in this exchange:
>>>>>>>>>
Lisa, Interviews with the local media, tv station or the newspaper in the days leading up to the show would be great. The typical. Ads for Fresno have appeared in the newspaper quite a few times (10 or more) and PBS has replayed MOTM more than 5 times in Fresno, six or seven probably.
M. Sims
“yes, I am aware of this, but 3 sentences at the bottom of page 10 is hardly promotion in my opinion. (hypothetically)”
L. Evancho
“What would she need PR for then? The albums?”
Everett Cox
“appearances after an album release. when Columbia decided not to promote SFTSS”
L. Evancho
>>>>>>>>>>
If her label decided not to promote her album Songs from the Silver Screen (SFTSS), that should have been a sign of things to come, like this label move. Obviously the album failed to meet sales expectations and adjustments needed to be made.
@AJ Fame is notoriously fickle. The sensation of one year is the ho-hum of the next, sputtering out like a wet firecracker. Better to be known and appreciated in a circle of real people than a faceless mob.
@CJ,
Then why so bitter over the success of a 13 year old … why compare yourself to a 13 year old?
Sharon,
Expectations? I am gobsmacked by that. Wouldn’t a failure to promote be the biggest reason in lower than expected sales? Are you referring to pre-release advanced orders and expectations for those? Wasn’t there an article on this site about SFTSS topping the classical charts at one time? That’s a pretty good achievement for an album not being promoted by its label company. What did they expect, double-platinum the first week?
@AJ I hope that she will sing well at my age as I still do. My own teacher had his voice past his 90’s. There is a science to all this.
@CJ,
I don’t doubt your knowledge and subject matter expertise….just your attitude !
Would be nice to hear what you sound like! Might give all of us JE fanatics a run for our money :)!
Why not post something if you are confident its that good?
JE is far from technically perfect and as she is getting older the cute factor is also dissipating. But the one thing that holds all spell bound is her voice and that keeps sounding better and better. Its richer, fuller, stronger and still wreaks havoc with many people’s emotions. (Listen to “SE” from her recent album).
I recently saw comparisons being made to a few young up and coming starlets …. new talent on the horizon. None of them come close to JE’s beautiful voice and few last more than a few months after their new found fame ….. the typical flash in the pan fame and glory !
Evancho’s voice is too contrived and plummy; like an old fashioned English choirboy. Her unintelligible diction is the worst thing, with this weird head noise that starts each first syllable. Everything she sings, it’s the same artificial expressions and delivery. She may have another year and then her goose will definitely be cooked. Cheers! ˆ◡ˆ
Chris,
Great! All the more reason for you not to listen to her music :)!
I’ll stick around another year and see if the goose is cooked or not! In the meantime, maybe you can convince CJ to go along with you and entertain you with her well trained soprano voice 🙂
@AJ You and that other school marm English teacher are so concerned about others’ attitudes! Well it is none of your business! I don’t care about fame. Lady Gaga is famous. So bloody what?
JE’s voice however is NOT “richer, fuller and stronger” and neither has the range increased. There is a considerable difference between her live performances that are mainly repeats of previous ones without any real change and those doctored up in the lab.
@cabagejuice you are always good for a few belly laughs. I know, I know it is not kind to laugh at people handicapped like you. But you really do beg for it with your unrelenting obsession of this super talented young girl.
She has been singing Lovers over two years, now all of a sudden the mystery of her voice is solved? You berate AJ over suppose inability to hear the difference between opera singers singing operatic arias, but he and I and most others can hear the difference between Battle’s and Jackie’s Lovers, but to your ear they are as if tracings, carbon copies. Classical Crossover artist sing covers, opera singers sing the same operatic arias, none sound exactly as the others who have song those songs and arias, if your educated hear can not hear the difference most other ears can.
The vast majority of Jackie fans prefer her live performances to CDs or DVDs, so much for “doctored up in the lab”.
She sings better than you now, and will sound better at your age and beyond. If you truly want to be embarrassed, I dare you to ask me how I know she sounds better, make that much better than you.
I was going to comment on your “faked voice” statement, but I could not stop laughing when ever I though of your statement.
CJ,
Lest you misunderstand, I, the other school marm and about a few million others don’t really care about the attitude of a few soured, unhappy opera die-hards. We just like responding to such.
You had me at fame and Lady Gaga. You’re not famous so you don’t care about fame. Good for you but what was your point ????
Unless you want to cut off your ears and loan them to the fans and public at large, most of us hear what we hear …. An incredibly beautiful voice that seems to get maturer, fuller and richer with time (whether its doctored or not). And if it doesn’t live up to its full potential …. Oh well, we can live off of the memories….just like you live off of the recordings of all the opera greats !
Looking forward to experiencing Jackie again in Portland and in Phoenix. If you ever have the chance to see Jackie Perform in person you will see women, men, and even children with tears in their eyes when experiencing “The Jackie Effect”. Such surreal talent and emotion emanating from such a young girl has a profound result on her audience. Attending a performance allows you to witness first-hand exactly why Jackie Evancho enraptures so many. Too bad the closet detractors prefer pontificating on negative observations rather than facing the reality of a performance that just might be the most wonderful experience you may ever have.
Lord Almighty! When I read this, I try not to think of political figures in the not too distant past who have had an inexplicable ability (with the help of PR) to cast a spell over an adoring, hysterical public. Thank Heaven Ms Evancho’s motives are no more sinister than making pots of money. ‘Laughing all the way to the bank’ springs to mind.
Yes, she’s “laughing all the way to the bank” and following her dream of singing in public !
Definitely not sinister but rather praiseworthy on the part of a 13 year old who can, apparently bring joy to the public at large, hysterical or otherwise.
So does the critique from a few really matter or carry weight with anyone other than to provide some entertainment …. at the expense of the critics ! I don’t think it does …
AJ, man or woman (I can’t tell since you hide behind initials). Without any bias, I am just interested that it seems to be women (Oh dear, Norman. Don’t redact me!) who revel in the fact that they have seen ‘The Sound of Music’ 30 plus times. Diana’s funeral was so toe-curlingly embarrassing because of all the ‘mourners’ sobbing, even wailing, and throwing flowers at the hearse, almost blocking the driver’s view. Mass enthusiasm, even hysteria, can be conjured up quite easily. Thousands get comfort in the fact that they are part of the ‘family’ who watch Manchester United, go to pop festivals, worship Kim Il Sung (just guessing) or fill sports stadia and city squares to be able to say they heard the 70-year-old Rolling Stones live (alive?) or the ever-smiling (I’d love to know what he’s really thinking) André Rieu murdering Strauss for the umpteenth time. Ms Evancho seems to be a nice, young girl with a pleasant voice; nothing more. But is it really wise to put her on such a pedestal at such a young age?
Derek,
Man. Hence most of your noteworthy lecture might be wasted on me. 🙂
Now talking about Ms. Evancho ….. is it wise to put her on a pedestal ….. of course not! I don’t think she is an actual angel who is somehow hiding her wings from the general public, I don’t see any halo around her head, I certainly doubt she is going to be nominated for sainthood, her voice is certainly not technically perfect as per the vocal experts that are ever ready to point out her deficiencies.
What she has is a voice to die for regardless of age. I am a fan of that voice that is so unlike anyone I’ve ever heard. Its pointless for you or anyone else to quote examples of other most noteworthy sopranos or tenors etc. I’m afraid that for me they fall short of what I like to hear. I listen to a lot of music and enjoy a lot of other singers but Jackie’s voice is very special. It really is a matter of personal taste regardless of how plebeian that taste may be for others :). Its that simple !
AJ, couldn’t agree more. It is absolutely a matter of personal taste. There are very few sounds that are as pleasing to my ear as Jackie’s voice. The sound of my newborn daughter’s first cry, my children laughing, bacon sizzling on a cold morning. These are completely personal to me so a technical analysis is pointless. These sounds are associated with happiness, and this is what Jackie brings to many people by sharing her talent.
Others don’t get it. This is fine but why spend hours on a forum discussing something you don’t like? I’d rather have teeth extracted.
For me no other singer comes close to sizzling bacon 🙂
@Nigel,
“Sizzling Bacon” 🙂 LOL! That’s a new one for me but very apt in getting the point across. Agree with you that its a futile exercise to continuously find fault with something that’s not going to change. In this case the opinion of the fans. Concerned critics who want to make a difference should seek other avenues to get their point across to people who can make a difference. Posting criticism on a forum is sharing opinion and knowledge but if it doesn’t drive change and change is what is being sought, then its a futile effort !
@KnightlyOnce The phrasing and nuances of Jackie’s ‘Lovers’ are practically identical to Battle’s. If it weren’t for the videos of Kathleen Battle, Aled Jones, Charlotte Church and Sarah Brightman (probably more but I don’t listen to “classical crossover”) there would have been no models to copy, ergo, no multi-million dollar career for a young adolescent just now. Think about it. I gave her interpretaions the benefit of the doubt for a long time because I didn’t hear all those other models. With these new revelations, I see why the reluctance to change or modify a technical cash cow that will be seen quite soon to run out of gas. You can only repeat such an act for so long and people will tire of it. The over priced tickets for concerts to me are a sign of desperation before the last bailout.
“The over priced tickets for concerts to me are a sign of desperation before the last bailout.”
I needed a good laugh this morning. Thanks!
@cabbagejuice
You are a running joke. Pretend you were right, even though you are 100% wrong, there is a never ending stream of new talent to copy. Not to mention, if someone were going to copy singers or songs to maximize cash now, they would not have gone with Classical or Classical Crossover, they would have gone pop, country, rock, more main stream were the real money is.
But please keep posting, we all need a good laugh from time to time, even if it comes at the expense of the OTT obsessive, like yourself.
@CJ,
So your prediction is that Jackie won’t last long as a singer / artist etc. !
Three years ago you were predicting she wouldn’t have a voice left in 2 years, she was a flash in the pan and nobody would remember her after the first fifteen minutes of fame. And here you are still hanging on to the hope that your prediction may come true, though the time has come and long gone.
So now its not about her voice its about her style / interpretion. A swift change in attack.
Okay so she is copying others …. so why is everyone who listens to her going around saying they’ve never heard or seen anything like her …. and she’s only thirteen !!
BTW, she just finished her concert in Cupertino, CA and her performance at the LDS center for Muzart. Premliminary reports suggest that Cuppertino was more than 80% full and LDS had over 20,000 in attendance.
Since you are confidant that you’ve finally figured out Jackie’s secret and her career is going to end soon, therefore you have nothing to worry about and have no more interest in her career …. :)!
Yeah right !
CJ,
This is where Jackie performed last evening:
https://twitter.com/MuzartWorld/status/399384161665839104/photo/1/large
‘Any of your students sing anywhere last night?
‘Handful of seats left (out of 1800) for Jackie’s Nov. 21st Thousand Oaks, California concert, with eleven days to go:
http://www.ticketmaster.com/event/0B004AD1B7C48CCC
LDS had other performers as one can clearly see. They tend to do things over there in a big, or grandiose, or rather bombastic manner.
LDS concerts often have the ultimate, or rather anachronistic in kitsch.
@CJ,
…And one can clearly tell that Jackie was the headliner and had the most performances at the event. She sang 5 songs.
The organizers chose Jackie to headline a big, grandiose and bombastic event….Maybe you can share with everyone as to why you think they chose her !
‘Seems we have a new High Sheriff of Good Taste.
The concert billing was: “Jackie Evancho & Friends: We Are Hope”. 20,000 in attendance. Galling, isn’t it?
CJ,
Tweets from musicians and audience alike from the LDS center suggest Jackie did it again. Wowed everyone with the beauty of her vocals. It was not about a little girl singing but how beautiful her voice is. More and more you’ll find comments complimenting Jackie’s unique voice without referencing her age. She is past the point of being a cute little girl with a big voice. She is now regularly referred to as a young lady with a phenomenal voice !
@AJ Let’s take out our calculator: 1800 tickets out of 2400+ seating in Cupertino is less than 75% capacity. As for the LDS event, one can assume that most of the attendees were local Mormons.
It seems from online posters even the fans are a bit puzzled as to the recycling of the repertoire (a possible reason for lower sales) and that the high notes are weaker. If that is the case, the voice would be shrinking, not growing. One poster wrote that she was giggly in one of the past concerts and thought a bit more polish in delivery should be expected by now.
Frankly I have very little interest in this pop culture stuff anymore as much as I am not galled by Madonna or Lady Gaga catering to 20,000 or more gyrating attendees. You can have your opinion about “phenomenal voice” and enjoy it to your heart’s content. I have my own professional assessment and really don’t care about you or her.
@cabbagejuice if you needed to used a calculator, and still came up with anything other than 75% you better stay way math and hand held devices. That’s just sad.
I need a new secretary, the last one must not be able to read her own short hand.
stay way math… should be…stay away from math. 😉
CJ,
Check your info again on Cuppertino :). I noticed you didnt comment on LDS numbers. Even if they are local Mormons, that’s still 20,000 +. And by the way they werent 20,000 gyrating Mormons.
You seem to cherry pick comments from one poster here and another there to prove your point. :). Jackie is still undergoing changes and will continue to in the next 4 to 5 years. Everyone recognizes that.
For someone who has little interest you are the most prolific poster on Jackie and her career. This topic alone has over 50 posts from you…. the highest ! So much for not caring about Jackie !
@AJ No, not only posting about Jackie but many other topics besides and answering people like you. I said my original interest was if this phenomenon was an exception to the rules or proves them. This was something I needed to find out, if my own training had been missing something all these years. All the information was not in for me before but is now. This may be a new way of doing things, to launch and base a career on imitating youtube videos, to sidestep necessary training and claim it comes from the heavens. There is considerable talent and a lot of self-confidence too, happily existing with flaws that could be corrected easily like diction but are taken in stride and excused saying it’s “classical crossover”!
This kind of sloppy approach to me is highly unprofessional, not worth taking seriously at all. The elderly men and women can have their fun, can spend their free time on chatrooms dissecting every detail, the Holy Family can laugh all the way to the bank and back – I really don’t care.
@CJ:
Thanks again for another morning laugh! You seem to spend more free time on this blog (not to mention trolling through others) than anyone. Is your daily calendar truly that open? Perhaps imitating a learned instructor of music (all puff, no proof) does warrant a change. ‘Best of luck to you.
@cabbagejuice, you do know it is impossible to lie to yourself forever?
You keep saying you really don’t care…but here you are. If you were here before to discover if Jackie was the exception to the rule or proves them, fine, now for your purpose and in your mind you have solved it all. But yet here you are, still wasting your time posting comments on a singer you really don’t care anything about.
I can’t speak for the ‘Holy Family’ but you still have me laughing.
@cabbagejuice
Copied and pasted from your comment to AJ posted November 11, 2013 at 3:12 pm
“The elderly men and women can have their fun, can spend their free time on chatrooms dissecting every detail,”
Is the excessive time you spend on this blog dissecting every detail of Jackie, and her parents, and her family, and her fans, etc., Free time or is it time taken away from something else you could or should be doing.
It must be hell being a helpless OTT obsessive.
You can not stop yourself from posting here. You will be here till NL ends this thread. And will be right back as soon as he starts another blog on Jackie. See you there.
cabbagejuice,
No doubt young singers & musicians have always imitated their elders. YouTube is obviously a new phenomenon, & may be facilitating those imitations. Many thousands of young singers have probably used it by now, including some who have tried to imitate Jackie (unsuccessfully, of course).
However, denial of training & the claim that there’s been a “gift from the Heavens” has a long, long tradition. Rosa Ponzillo (Ponselle) frequently claimed she’d had “no training,” although she had plenty, certainly after she arrived at the Met at age 17. Lots of singers claimed they hadn’t had training when in fact they had.
A couple of Jackie interviews done in late 2009 have recently surfaced, & in them she talks about the voice teacher(s) she’d been seeing regularly from early 2008 to 2009. We know of at least 2 during that time. Then she worked with Yvie Burnett for roughly a year, first with AGT & then privately. I know you don’t care for the Estill Method, but Yvie is indeed a professional at what she does.
Jackie consults other professionals regularly about her voice, but the Evanchos have kept the details close to the vest. You now hear Jackie saying she’s had “no training” (meaning “no teaching”) & has “no vocal coach,” but the former contradicts what she said in 2009.
BTW, this is the audio only from a recent performance of When You Wish Upon a Star, possibly from Cupertino (the poster doesn’t say). Her pitch control is excellent. She blends her registers (defining “register” as “vocal fold vibration pattern”) & hides her passaggi well. Her high notes are strong (though the highest is only an F5 here). Her voice is richer than ever.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yOBZHkdr7g&feature=youtu.be
Also BTW, this is a partial list of the vocal & musical professionals, & regular TV talent, who have cried upon hearing Jackie sing:
One of her 2 voice teachers in 2008
Debra Crosby, who has run a talent show outside Boston, Massachusetts for many years
Sharon Osbourne – needs no introduction
Reba McIntyre, one of the queens of American country music
CBC hostess, morning show
Antonella Nestor, QVC hostess
Katie Lyon-Pingree, harpist in Boston
You can probably add Muhammad Ali, former heavyweight boxing champion, to this list
These are people who’ve worked with singers for years. It was Jackie whose voice made them cry. There are others, too.
CJ,
No amount of training is going to turn a professional into a gifted artist. You either have it or you don’t ! Training can help improve upon what you have. Go back and listen to DWMIC. You see an 11 year old sing a repertoire that most professionals would have a hard time singing. Jackie not only sings but does so with a style and voice that’s hard to match. Students in conservatories and elite music schools don’t count because the public at large has not seen them. You can’t compare what you can’t see or hear. I have seen quite a few of them and have yet to find one that I would consider close to Jackie’s extraordinary gift…..and I’m not talking about technique.
Well you seem to have found the missing link in your understanding of Jackie’s music and career. I don’t think anyone has a clue what that missing link was because you still continue to say the same things you’ve said for 3 years.
In case you decide to exit from the Jackie Phenomena (I very much doubt you will), be sure to get your blessings from the Holy Family even though they may be clueless about your existence as they are of mine :).
CJ,
I don’t know if you realize that you’re comparing your professional training and decades of experience …. to a 13 year old !
That alone speaks to the uniqueness and prodigious talent of Jackie Evancho more than anything I could have said !
@AJ You missed the point completely. Prodigious copying is a talent but not based on a sure, steadily built-up technique. The laws of anatomy or physics haven’t changed yet. As I wrote before and am frustrated to have to repeat, so-called flaws could have been corrected very easily. There is not ONE O Mio Babbino, Ombra mai Fu without them, plus all the other songs with mushy diction.
It is clear to me now that the unwillingness to alter the production in any way was to protect the gimmick of the murky lower register. I know how things go in singing. There is too much of a break in color between the lower and higher notes. As they are unnatural and contrived, the rules win. This is not an anatomical exception. The high speaking voice is yet another unmistakeable clue which gives the game away entirely.
CJ,
What prodigious copying ??? Jackie is known for taking a song and making it her own.
Need I repeat myself that technique is not what is paramount for most of Jackie’s fans or causal listeners. So that is why you often hear people say “perfection” when they listen to Jackie. I’m sorry the the flaws you speak of are in your own mind and important only to you.
Not sure what rules you’re talking about but it doesn’t change anything for the fans. I’m glad that its clear to you now whatever was unclear before but i’m afraid you’ll be rejoicing alone in your new found knowledge. She’s still making money and a pretty hefty sum for a 13 year old … flaws and all, if there are any !
In the words of Jackie’s song:
Who can explain it?
Who can tell you why?
Fools give you reasons,
Wise men never try.
Anyone who tries to analyse her or her voice falls into the category of fool. Wise men just listen and enjoy.
Jackie’s voice is the nearest thing to the pure emotion of love that I have felt since the birth of my baby daughter. No singer has or ever will again affect me like Jackie does.
Anyone that doesn’t get it – just move on to another target. Jackie has done no harm to you, so leave her alone.
@Laptop What passaggi? Everything in the clip is in a middle range. Yes, I don’t like pushing the sound into the resonators which seems to be the Estil method and very much in evidence here. Not only myself, but other teachers feel this is an unhealthy practice that will backfire at some point.
As for reactions to performances, whatever floats your boat and others too. I really don’t care, for me it is not an endorsement of anything.
cabbagejuice,
Perhaps I shouldn’t be surprised that you don’t hear passaggi or register changes, while I can. Yes, some of WYWUAS is indeed sung “above the passaggio.” It’s simply a testament of Jackie’s skill that you don’t hear it.
This is another audio-only vid from Cupertino, To Where You Are:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=six-rDC0qNs&feature=youtu.be
Notice her improved breath support. Again, passaggi are well-hidden & registers blended. Surely you’ll admit that G5 is above the passaggio, eh? As usual, her switch point is lower than most adult females, Eb5 (which she sings in either register – again, defining “register” as “vocal fold vibration pattern”).
The classical crossover audience is more concerned with the sound, its beauty & their emotional reactions to it, while you could say that the opera audience is “more discerning” about excellent technique. So they’re really listening for different things. Still, Jackie has made clear technical improvements & appears to be successfully working her way thru the vocal changes of adolescence.
@nigel9113 In the words of a poster here on another thread, “if you don’t agree with my passionate convictions, then you are an insufferable bigot”.
Statements like these from Jackie fans are so endearing, a true witness
to reflected sweetness and light: “Anyone who tries to analyse her or her voice falls into the category of fool.” Nice going!
Congratulations on entirely missing my point.
Ombra Mai Fu performed on 8 November:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D-RNXom8UY
Absolutely perfect, as always. Nigel is correct. Anyone who tries to analyse her or her voice falls into the category of fool. Wise men just listen and enjoy. Fools who insist on demeaning this gift to music need to experience what this young lady gives to her audience in person. Or simply go away. You just cannot judge a beautiful sunset by looking at a picture.
Thank you Stephen 🙂
I would go further and say you cannot judge a beautiful sunset….
@cabbagejuice, You claim to be a paid professional, within the field of Classical music, a voice teacher, one who cares nothing for this singer. So I ask you, how many other paid professional, within the field of Classical music, voice teacher or coach, or singer, or musician, or whatever has over 50 post on this blog, or any were else based on a singer they care nothing about?
I repeat, must be hell being a helpless OTT obsessive.
KnightlyOnce says:
November 11, 2013 at 11:20 pm
@cabbagejuice
Copied and pasted from your comment to AJ posted November 11, 2013 at 3:12 pm
“The elderly men and women can have their fun, can spend their free time on chatrooms dissecting every detail,”
Is the excessive time you spend on this blog dissecting every detail of Jackie, and her parents, and her family, and her fans, etc., Free time or is it time taken away from something else you could or should be doing.
It must be hell being a helpless OTT obsessive.
You can not stop yourself from posting here. You will be here till NL ends this thread. And will be right back as soon as he starts another blog on Jackie. See you there.
Sorry but Ombra mai fu (the shade that was made)is not a melodrama. There is so much technically wrong, that it is not worth to point out the usual jaw waggle, marked register changes, signs of struggle in breathing, pressing on each note with an immediate fade out, plus starting flat.
If one had respect for the music it would not be put on the stage in that condition. If one had concern for the singer, she would be encouraged to stop performing and do what the young Sills, Andrews and Freni did to wait a few years and then emerge as a polished professional. Just because fans enjoy it doesn’t mean they are not selfish.
cabbagejuice,
I suppose one sees precisely what one wants to see. In the reality-based community, however, we can see that on OMF, the jaw waggle is less prominent, & indeed looks more like a lip quiver now. The register changes, which you were unable to hear on WYWUAS, are no more obvious on this; she continues to hide her passaggi & blend her registers well. Her breathing continues to improve as her lungs keep growing, with less frequent need for breaths. She’s not pressing, but is singing in a relaxed & free manner. Her pitch control is excellent. She’s even better on her R’s between vowels, sometimes rolling them less than she did in the past.
Yet you continue to post the same criticisms that are no longer relevant. You continue to talk about her obsessed, OTT fans while, as others have pointed out, you post here more than any fan. Evidently, love is blind.
@cabbagejuice,
I agree it is not worth pointing out the jaw waggle, marked register changes, signs of struggle in breathing, pressing on each note with an immediate fade out, plus starting flat.. BECAUSE THEY DO NOT EXIST Except in your imagination.
You have completely lost any credibility you may have had here.
You are now just comic relief.
goodbye cabbagejuice, hello garbagejuice
@cabbagejuice
the comic relief says, “If one had respect for the music it would not be put on the stage in that condition. If one had concern for the singer, she would be encouraged to stop performing…”
The truth is,…
If anyone respected and/or cared about you(cabbagejuice), they would have done what ever was needed(bound and gagged you?) long ago to have kept you from making a fool out of yourself.
It used to be said that the difference between a musical lover and an audiophile was the music lover heard the music, while the audiophile heard the defects in recording & transmission.
In all the performing arts, artists are judged by two fundamental factors: technique and performance. Poor technique makes it impossible to enjoy great performance, no matter how spirited. But most paying customers of classical crossover and popular music prefer great performance with decent technique over great technique with decent performance. The audience voting in TV talent contests consistently reflects this fact.
Moreover, CJ’s critique exemplifies the results of an experiment carried out during the 2004 presidential campaign: a group of political partisans of both parties were assembled and given materials to read that presented adverse facts about their guy and the other side’s guy, while placed in an MRI machine, scanning their brains as they read the materials and reacted to them.
The partisans all did the same thing, regardless of party: the information was not processed in their cortical areas, but instead were processed farther down in the more primitive parts of the brain. Information adverse to their guy was rationalized away/dismissed. Info adverse to the other side’s was was greeted with horror as proof that his election would destroy Western Civilization in short order.
And once they’d dismissed their guy’s flaws and magnified the other guy’s flaws, their brains were flushed with endorphins, rewarding them for their tribal efforts.
So it is with most people who go into an experience with an axe to grind. Jackie worshippers will dismiss what Grinches like CJ says out of hand. Grinches will dismiss Jackie as a parvenu and her fans as simpletons who lack their discernment.
I made the recording of Ombra Mai Fu shown upthread, from the second row in the concert hall, near the middle. I don’t claim that her performance was technically flawless, but I also note that CJ failed to respond to HomoSapiensLaptopicus’s analysis. Calling Jackie’s rendition “melodramatic” is absurd. Most fans of classical crossover music would opt for Jackie’s version over a technically superior one such as Cecelia Bartoli’s (not to mention Caruso, who does it as if it were a Neapolitan love song). I know Bartoli’s trilling is historically correct, but I prefer Evancho’s trill-free rendition.
I also note that far more people are going to hear Jackie’s Ombra Mai Fu than will ever hear any opera singer’s, and as such she is doing much for spreading appreciation for at least one aria from Baroque opera.
And these invidious “concerns” for Jackie’s well-being are also absurd. The singers CJ mentions as withdrawing from public performance at Jackie’s age were engaged in the arduous training needed for opera singers. It was obvious from the concert I attended–which is part for her course–that her mic’s, non-belting singing, spaced out within the concert by orchestral interludes, and part of performing only an average of four concerts A MONTH, show that her parents’ promise made three years ago to guard her voice has been kept.
If I were CJ I’d be worrying about all those junior Broadway belters shredding their voices doing “Annie” “Mathilda:” and suchlike. Jackie does not sing her highs as easily as she did before puberty, but no one can say if this will persist and turn her into a mezzo, or if she’ll return to lyric soprano status once her growth settles down.
Meanwhile she’s have a blast performing, and is able to articulate clearly the tradeoffs entailed by her life choices in interviews.
@Laptop One cannot or probably should not argue about taste. You like it, that is fine. But please don’t imagine you can inform me about vocal technique, unless you yourself have had extensive training. According to you my ears must be defective or at least less discerning than yours because I don’t hear the skill in the way Jackie blends registers.
All I can say is hogwash. When she reaches the limit of the mixed voice then she floats the tone in the head, no big mystery about that or anything special for that matter.
I can understand why you like hearing the expression and the identification with the music, although one can barely make out the words. However, do not try to pass this off as a superior technical sensibility or intellect because it is not. If it were, then the other problems and flaws would have been worked out which until now, they haven’t.
cabbagejuice,
Perhaps some of the problem is the definitions of words. Vocal pedagogues usually talk about chest, middle & head “voice,” but I care most about what the vocal folds look like thru the laryngoscope. That’s why I use “vocal fold (cord) vibration pattern” as the definition of “register,” rather than the many other meanings that term has. As a discrete pattern of vocal fold vibration, there is no laryngoscopic evidence for the “middle register,” in females or otherwise, yet “middle voice” & “middle register” are used all the time in the vocal community. Scientifically, most singing is done in modal or falsetto register, with rare forays into whistle register & even rarer forays into vocal fry (or “pulse”) register – but the only thing between modal & falsetto registers is the passaggio. It’s unfortunate that the names of the registers mean so many different things to different people.
IYAM, very few singers, male or female, who haven’t had operatic training are truly good at blending registers & hiding their passaggi, & some opera singers, even stars, aren’t perfect at it. The fact that Jackie is as good as she is, especially during the very difficult vocal changes of adolescence, is remarkable.
BTW, the head tilt to the right on the high notes is already markedly improved, along with her breath support.
CJ,
Fans aren’t looking for sainthood …. yes they can be selfish if you want to put it that way. You forget …. many fans may not live long enough to hear an adult Jackie.
Jackie is Jackie …. she’s not Sills, Andrews or Freni and sounds nothing like they did at her age. Its pretty obvious she is going to carve her own path ….
Oh dear me, Ekhzu, taking time off from snorkeling to buy a prime seat to get up close. I couldn’t have put it better about gut reactions to singing:
“Information was not processed in their cortical areas, but instead were processed farther down in the more primitive parts of the brain. Information adverse to their guy was rationalized away/dismissed…and once they’d dismissed their guy’s flaws and magnified the other guy’s flaws, their brains were flushed with endorphins, rewarding them for their tribal efforts.”
At least I am not a Grinch in a wetsuit.
@KnightlyOnce I forgot to put on the list craning the neck and head to the right for the high notes. Did someone mention the singing is “relaxed and free”? Obviously wishful thinking is operating here.
Another quote on the thread: “far more people will listen to her OMF”. Oh really, only about 700 hits on the latest vid.
Oh, and FOUR concerts a month when averaging out the summer months without performances. That means more intense activity as in November.
Rationalization and denial bypassing, what was it(?) the cortical areas…
CJ,
You consider 4 concerts a month as intense activity?? Especially if someone, by your own admission isn’t singing opera and Jackie is not singing opera …. unless of course you’ve reconsidered and now want to classify what she sings, as opera.
Isn’t that a sort of wishful thinking on your part.
@garbagejuice, Adding to your imaginary list does not make you any less delusional.
Thanks for all the laughter you provide to brighten everyone’s day.
Wishing you great day, but of course all your days are of the grandiose type. 🙂
@garbagejuice
How do you do it?
I am retired, but what with family and friends, exercise, hobbies, reading, entertainment, and the everyday mundane chores and whatnots, I never seem to have enough time in the day. I am a fan of Jackie, I really enjoy her singing, so I make time for her within the allotted for entertainment.
I think laughter is also a very important need in life. which is why I make time for you. Your comments bring me more laughs than most of the standup comics I go to see at the comic clubs here. Plus you save me driving time and I get your comments for free.
A win win for me.
Thank you. Please keep the laughter coming.
A Soprano normally has a passagio into their head voice around F5. In Jackie Evancho’s recent recordings I have not heard her sing above F5. Interestingly she’s not sung below her melba point (about Eb4) either. This is normally recommended for singers at her stage on the Gackle scale. However she should not be marketing herself as a Soprano, as at this stage it isn’t known whether she will be a Soprano or a Mezzo. She is a Cambiata Female voice.
I just hope she isn’t made to sing anything too big or too extreme. However she should start working through her high and low passagi or she will loose the ability to change ranges smoothly and evenly.
I have nothing against microphones, but with good technique they can be reserved for the hearing-aid loop and not for the purpose of amplification.
If I were her, I’d take six months off from performing and use the time wisely building technique. Estill has some great strengths. I have one or two reservations, but on the whole it is pretty sound stuff.
Joanna D
Thank you for your knowledgeable post(s). I just wanted to make a couple of observations.
Jackie sings G5 on two of the videos posted above, Ombra Mai Fu & To Where You Are, & Ab5 on O Holy Night.
Her “2nd” passaggio, the highest place her passaggio can take place (into “head voice”), is Eb5. Yes, it’s lower than most adult sopranos. Please believe me, though, I’ve spent many hours listening to her voice. She uses falsetto register (defining “register” as “vocal fold vibration pattern” – nothing else, though of course timbre & lots of other things are different) at least briefly in all of the videos posted on this thread. She can sing Eb5 in either modal or falsetto register, but notes above that are always in falsetto register, & have been for several years.
I’m not sure exactly where her “1st” passaggio is, the lowest place it can occur (the “transition from chest voice into middle voice”), but it should be expected to be about an octave lower, i.e., ~Eb4. I’m pretty sure she’s gone down as far as Ab4 recently, but she’s good enough that it’s hard to tell.
On previous Jackie threads here on Slipped Disc, we’ve posted her rendition of the Star Spangled Banner from 4 July 2013, when she sang a G3 several times. She sang as low as E3 when she was 10 on Lean On Me. The highest note she’s recorded, incidentally, is B5 (briefly) on Hymn of the Worlds from One Night One Drop at Cirque du Soleil in April 2013.
@Derek I can’t agree with you more. Some of the wilder comments but not unusual, are like this: “It is as if all previous music was a preparation for Jackie Evancho.”
When I discovered the extent of the copying of vids from the very beginning, statements like these became utterly mindblowing coupled with the downright nastiness of her fans, usually men, AJ included. Their vindictiveness to me or anyone who offers some down to earth observations also is still a phenomenon worth studying.
I think you are spot on with the nice voice and character with money making as the objective. Putting all that on a pedestal is simply to heavy for it to bear and not wise.
CJ,
For such a pragmatic, down to earth and practical person, I am surprised that you seem to have turned so emotional and sensitive.
There is nothing wrong with offering practical advise but the same thing repeated again and again tinged with sarcasm doesn’t qualify as practical or professional opinion much less advice.
Nobody has put Jackie on a pedestal for worship. For many people she is their favorite singer whose voice brings them joy and moves them emotionally. It is that what most praise and not perfection. She is far from perfect….a statement that many have said but that somehow escapes your attention.
Your obsession with Jackie (now over 50,000 words) is a phenomenon that is not only worth study but merits close attention in my opinion
It is very unusual to talk about a woman’s falsetto. There are those who believe it does not exist. Women falsettists tend to be coloratura sopranos who find this range about E6. I would not teach a 13 year old girl to use her flautino notes at all. Cambiata Male singers find those notes almost automatically, yet it is better for them to establish their full emergent baritone, then establish their adult voice (stages 4-5 on the Cooksey scale) before they start doing much experimentation with their falsetto.
Indeed, if John (Cooksey) were still alive, that would be what he would recommend.
Joanna D
I know many don’t talk about women singing in falsetto, but it might help to use “voice” rather than “register” (again, defining the latter as “pattern of vocal fold vibration”). The terminology is certainly confusing. Those who named the 4 registers could have used different terminology, like “loft” or “light mechanism” for the “narrow cord” of falsetto, where the vocal ligaments at the bases of the folds are relaxed & only the mucosal edges of the folds are vibrating.
What you’re talking about (“flautino”), above around E6, would be called “whistle register” by many of the scientists, though its position varies more than the transition from modal to falsetto registers. It could be called “short cord” because only the anterior ~halves of the folds (& only their mucosal edges) are vibrating. Yet some call THAT “falsetto” in females – just to keep us confused.
The pop singer Mariah Carey used to use flautino a lot, but her notes always sounded unsupported to me. Between that & her belting in modal register, her voice seems irretrievably damaged now, in her early 40s. I would hope that Jackie, & all young singers, avoid that like the plague.
In any case, the 4 registers, according to vocal fold vibration pattern, in men & women, are vocal fry or pulse, modal or normal, falsetto (or loft or light mechanism or ???) & whistle (or flautino). I use these definitions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocal_register
It seems that a lot of Jackie’s fans are quite impatient & want to see her get thru the Cooksey stages immediately. Perhaps she can’t be past stage 2b, or maybe 3, at present. Time will tell, & will also tell us whether she ultimately becomes a soprano or a mezzo. Contralto seems unlikely but who knows?
Jackie’s Fresno concert scheduled for this Sunday, November 17 was just cancelled!
There was a lot of promotion in town. Radio, TV and Newspaper. What is going on?
The dogs bark, the caravan moves on.