Simon Rattle: The Berlin Phil? They are Mastersingers. You are not a member of the guild
OrchestrasIn my next Lebrecht Interview on BBC Radio 3, the conductor Sir Simon Rattle talks frankly about his often-turbulent 16 years at the head of the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra.
“You try lots of things,” Rattle says, shrugging. “Eye contact doesn’t always work. And it’s difficult to keep your confidence. I certainly struggled at some times.’
… Rattle lasted 16 years at the wheel of the orchestral Porsche before he walked away again. “As a conductor in Berlin,” he explains, “it can be friendly, it can be polite, but you are not a member of the guild. They are the Mastersingers. They are the ones who remain. Conductors come and go.”
His successor, Kirill Petrenko, is an introvert who never gives interviews or makes recordings. Rattle is delighted. “They have a great conductor to work with who is totally uncompromising in areas where I compromised. Kirill never gives up, and I’m sure it drives them completely crazy, but he’s made them an orchestra that’s … much easier … for the rest of us to conduct.”…
Read extracts from the interview here.
Listen to the full 45-minute interview next Saturday at 9.45 pm on BBC Radio 3.
Perfectly candid! Good for him! Whatever the issues we enjoyed many wonderful performances from him during his 16 years!
It’s just a BIG violin….
That era ended about 30 years ago. Since then they are more flexible in their sound (and more confused often what sound they are aiming for, and if in doubt they just play (too) loud often).
Karajan´s Mantovani sound ended in 1989..Thanks to Claudio. Thank God!!!
Professional musician? And yet no ear for music? That suits our times, alas. Are you also saying that Abbado murdered Karajan?
There are more accurate terms for the nationalistic ethnocentricity and attitudes of superiority in Germanic culture than mastersingers. Those attitudes, of course, have brought great misfortune to the world and Germany even if we are reluctant to admit the historical correlations.
The only casual dismissal of an enitre race on display here, is contained in your own words.
I thought Rattle fairly useless and boyish as a conductor of an orchestra with an ego the size of Berlin airport – but you comments are unworthy.
Sweeping generalisations about white people are OK, apparently.
Although it would be simplistic to say that Germany invented classical music, it certainly accelerated its development. It’s not surprising, therefore, that the BPO might be guilty of claiming ownership from time to time.
Lots of countries do this in a whole range of fields. American musicals, for example. Not worth getting excited about.
I love Simon Rattle! Breathtaking conducting when he came to NY. And a delightful, droll sense of humor. Topnotch all the way!
Petrenko “is totally uncompromising … but he’s made them an orchestra that’s … much easier … for the rest of us to conduct”
I’d love to hear more and know what he means by that! (Sorry, paywall, can’t access article)
Does he mean Petrenko has now made it easier for this?
https://slippedisc.com/2015/02/simon-rattle-discussing-sibelius-explains-difficulties-with-the-berlin-philharmonic/
“To do an accelerando at all with Berlin Philharmonic is really quite hard! It is a very heavy, Germanic truck that has it’s feet on the ground and part of what is extraordinary is how the sound comes out off the ground. And often with Sibelius, you have to really move. It is not that we can’t rush, because we can rush like hell particularly when we don’t want to. When it is necessary to get faster in a controlled way it is very difficult. It requires the same kind of trust as when you stand up and someone says I will catch you when you fall. To actually do this accelerando without going off the rails requires an incredible amount of trust….”
They play a certain type of music wonderfully well, but are not ‘adaptive’ in the sense that for example the LSO are. In other words, they are rather like a clever but narrow minded professor.
The fact of the matter is both Rattle and Petrenko are both wrong for Berlin. Rattle is good at training orchestra’s to sound and work better and Berlin never needed it and Petrenko is an opera guy which reflects the rather substandard orchestral recordings released so far. Wrong time wrong place for both.
Rattle wasn’t a great choice so I agree but Petrenko is a different league – he is the most exciting one around since Kleiber – since he took over they are back to it’s glory – absolutely brilliant
‘they are back to it’s glory’?
Petrenko is the greatest….So many things i never heard before….As i always say , emotional focus comes through forensic detail and total transparency..Ratlle is incredibly versatile too, but i feel he´s much more free with the BRSO and the Czech Phil.
Bravo to Rattle for praising his successor. Do conductors do that often?
No. And they don’t praise their predecessors unless they are deceased. Conductors absolutely LOVE stories about the disasters that occasionally befall their “colleagues.” There are occasional exceptions but typically it is because the conductor concerned doesn’t view the “colleague” as in any way a competitor. Hence it was OK for Muti to praise Kleiber (as others did almost universally) because he conducted so little. But ask Muti what he thought of Abbado or Chailly…………….Barbirolli liked Arvids Jansons (entirely different repertoire). Bernstein unusually managed to be on good terms with most other conductors but that doesn’t mean they thought he was anything special……….
And then there are those claims about new music directors transforming the reputation of an orchestra. This may have been true about Szell/ Cleveland but not about, say, Solti/Chicago or Dudamel/LAPO. That both latter orchestras were top notch before is evident in earlier recordings, e.g. CSO/Reiner or LAPO/Giulini. There are many other examples. Both conductors and the press are guilty of this nonsense.
Berlin Phil is overrated. Frankfurt Radio Orchestra the finest in Europe, agile and exciting.
Both are under the 10 best.
part of the ten best, or less than the ten best?
Frankfurt Radio is simply stunning….
Norman, Rattle is saying ‘Direct contact doesn’t always work’ not ‘eye contact’…very different.
AI or some BBC tyke has let you down in the transcription.
Great chat- would love to have heard him elaborate on his private life but at least we were spared his conventional tiresome take on Brexit!
This is the paragraph from The Times directly, so is it transcribed incorrectly from video?
“There was a hard core of resistance in the orchestra, some from reactionaries or from others who were just bloody-minded. How did he face them on a Monday morning? “You try lots of things,” Rattle says, shrugging. “Eye contact doesn’t always work. And it’s difficult to keep your confidence. I certainly struggled at some times. One of the older players said to me: ‘We had James Levine last week. He said good morning to me. How am I expected to play for a conductor who says good morning to me?’ Another old-timer said: ‘If we are to play Elgar, we might as well play — sniff — Mahler.’” The Birmingham can-do attitude was a thing of the past.”
Why do you say, ‘walked away again’? Again?