Has Vienna clapped its last New Year’s march?
OrchestrasThere is renewed controversy over the Johann Strauss Radetsky March which traditionally closes the New Year’s Day concert.
The version played was changed four years ago when it was discovered to have been made by an unregenerate Nazi named Leopold Weninger.
A new storm has erupted now over the work’s dedicatee, a brutal Hapsburg general who massacred untold numbers of Italians when putting down two independent uprisings in 1848. Joseph Radetsky had innocent blood on his hands.
The Green Party in Vienna want his waltz to be banned.
The Vienna Philharmonic are hoping this row will go away.
It appears from this hyear’s broadcast that the Italians still enjoy it.
but when will we stop giving music political meanings that it doesn’t have? And when will we stop reading the past with sensitivity to the present? Which general, even a virtuous one, hasn’t had blood on his hands? these are things from 180 years ago and Italy was created anyway, as an Italian I will listen and applaud the Radetzky marsch always with pleasure, it’s music and that’s it!
Has it occur to you that, perhaps, one doesn’t have to dedicate things to generals? or in general, no pun intended, glorify the military?
Mussolini may still be a hero to some, maybe even to you, but how many Italians would clap along to a Mussolini March every New Year’s Day?
With the difference that Mussolini is still a ‘living memory’ (sobtobspeak) for some (many), whereas in case of Radetzky we are speaking of more than 150 years ago. As an italian I am not offended by it. Should I? Soon or later we should learn to make the past go behind our shoulders (which does not mean to forget). How far should we go back? To the roman empire? (BTW I am sure the majority of Italians do not even know or care, about who Radetzky was).
today it is not necessary to dedicate things to generals, the sensitivity has changed. They were once seen as heroes for their respective nations, but that was 100 to 200 years ago. We cannot judge the past with today’s standards. Then after centuries some meanings, even those linked to music, no longer make sense.
Since you make a comparison with Mussolini (whom I have no respect for), the fascist anthem “Giovinezza” was originally a beautiful song written in the early 1900s by university students; Fascism took it, changed the lyrics and made it a hymn.
If today I were to replay that song with the original non-fascist lyrics I would get slapped because that melody inevitably recalls fascism to those who have suffered fascism. But in 100 years if someone proposed it (I repeat, with the original lyrics) it would be a good song again and that’s it.
This generation is out of school with no sense of history, so the world just started with them. It was table rase before them, it will be table rase after them if they grab any power
This is a manufactured controversy by one Green party politician. Nobody cries about the Marseillaise (which encourages the agricultural use of my impure blood 😉 ) or the Prussian marches that are played in Germany, so why care that this famous march was dedicated to Radetzky? Most Austrians don’t know who Radetzky was and those who do tend to have a critical view of him anyway – but they still enjoy the music.
No Prussian marches are played anywhere in Germany these days. The country doesn’t seem to be suffering musically as a result either.
Not by symphony orchestras for which they weren’t composed (unlike the Radetzky march), but certainly by marching bands. This includes the very highest level of representation by the German state, such as the visits of foreign heads of state.
Here is the ceremony of King Charles’s visit:
https://youtu.be/_YOw02NtaP0?si=5Y5mLn1kN0zDnvi6
It’s filled with Prussian marches, including “Preußens Gloria”, which is a triumphal march celebrating the German victory in the Franco-Prussian war. Still, I don’t believe the French care about that anymore, which is a good thing.
“Most Austrians don’t know who Radetzky was”: You’re begging the question. Maybe that’s the problem — they should?
I mean I’m always in favor of people being historically informed, but realistically the educational efforts are probably better spent elsewhere – as you know there are plenty of dark chapters in Austrian history. My point was that Radetzky is not some venerated figure in Austria, most people know the name only from the march. The history of Radetzky’s victory against Sardinia-Piedmont isn’t emotionally charged anymore, Italy has long since prevailed, and it doesn’t hurt anyone.
The world is going to Hell in a hand basket and this is all they can think about.
Within the range of their IQs, I’d suggest.
I’m upset the Vienna Phil didn’t do a token work by a marginalized “minority” composer or dress in all black like the NY Phil does, for this concert. They have to get with the times!
In these Vienna new year’s concerts, a minority composer would be a German protestant.
“The Vienna Philharmonic are hoping this row will go away.”
I think it will be over before lunch, January 5th.
Interesting also to see how green parties across Europe are getting increasingly hostile to traditional culture. No surprise though; is there one thing these parties want, it is to see the whole socitety as we know it crash and burn.
They might turn their attention first to the abominable graffiti that is destroying Vienna! I’m betting they’re way too enabling to manage this.
Rather watch and listen to Andre Rieu than this lot!
Andrew Rieu’s orchestra is nowhere near as good as the Wiener Philharmoniker. This lot, as you call them, are probably the best in the World!!
All marches, whether military or funeral, are potentially triggering! And should thus be removed from programs, cut from individual works, and banned and from all performance spaces to make them safer.
I !ike your sarcasm and hope nobody Woke up and took it seriously.
Ahistorical, one-sided nonsense, with the term “innocent” doing some very heavy lifting: Radetzky met rebel armies in battle and defeated them, subsequently restoring order and the rule of law against what would today be defined as an armed and extremely dangerous separatist uprising (the subsequent Italian nationalist rebranding as a “war of independence” is a classic, if understandable, case of victor’s history: we saw the long-term results in 1914). Far from being “brutal” by the standards of his day Radetzky was actually regarded at the time (including by his enemy Cadorna) as an unusually compassionate and civilised general.
Possibly these people are conflating Radetzky with Haynau; in any case, it’s astonishing how often the less established European ethno-states (post-1789, and even more so post-1918) continue to lean on these jingoistic and partisan national creation myths – and even more astonishing how ready we still are to take them at face value if they happen to align with our own political or artistic prejudices.
Everything fine a part “his enemy Cadorna”. Cadorna was 8 when Radetzky died (1858).
There are three Italian generals from the same Cadorna family. The most senior one actually fought against Radetzky; his most prized endeavour was conquering Rome from the Pope.
These leftist freaks are insane creatures, need to be put in mental hospitals!
do true – aren’t they all insane headed by this awful Greta supporting the terrorists?
The Left has nothing anymore to praise or just send them to North Korea – we will have a backlash soon as the entire world goes crazy – pathetic is word too less
Caravaggio might be banned soon to admire, Leonardo also as he had a minor as lover
The awful Green Minister in Germany (already ruined by a woman called Angela) asks for diversity in Bayreuth
Those ridiculous people are wondering why we see rising populists in our Western World
Absolutely ludicrous those discussions supported by the liberal media people should just ignore
I have that too but with Spanish music…. gives me the shivers, thinking of the Armada threat from around 1600
Sally
To rename the tune “Der klatschende Marsch” would be fun, but why give even the slightest word gain to the mad mob?
Not to worry at all folks, there will be Muti on the podium.
The man who put Me2 to shame, protected the Putin Bass and kept the N word in Verdi will not back down – all in the name of Art. He will gladly conduct the march that commemorates the slaughter of Italians – he’s in Vienna after all.
Muti is going to program another march to replace Radetzky to commemorate a victorious Italian general, oh wait, there is none, Italy has never won a war.
ba dum tiss
Sorry to correct your error, but Italy won a war with Austria in 1918. Alas, there is no Armando Diaz march, but “Leggenda del Piave” by E.A. Mario has roughly the same function.
“As concerned individuals, we find the the alias Chicagorat to be an affront to all rodent residents in Chicago. Thus, in the name of universal rights and justice for all animals, we demand that this web censure all posts under this alias.”
Yes, this may be a joke, but please do take some time to consider the logic and implications of the above request.
WHAT on earth is your problem re Muti? Did he fire you or something? Enough already.
Well, the two references to this March as a waltz have now been reduced to one, but this post is still bizarre, and needs more fact-checking.
When is it ok to erase a dedicatee?
Beethoven quickly crossed out Napoleon’s name and renamed his symphony the Eroica.
No one, not even the French, has ever accused Beethoven of being a snowflake, for being politically correct. People do change their minds upon learning new facts.
In any case, now I can’t get rid of the mental image from my head everytime I hear the Radetsky March: Austro-Hungarian troops stomping on dead Italians. And clapping.
Thanks NL, some news shouldn’t be translated!
Chopin was terribly antisemitic, so shall we stop playing him?
And Wagner
Italians like it, Austrians like it, Japanese like it, but there is always the Greens who never like anything except themselves.
Your video excerpt is from the Swiss television; on the Italian television the Vienna concert was broadcasted during the evening with very sparse comment by a lady from the Bolzano RAI office. General Radetzky has always been considered a tyrant in Italy, now memory is being lost as nobody is studying history seriously at school anymore.
Retroactive anger at past atrocities is misplaced anger. There is plenty right now going on in the world to be angry about: Insurrectionists in the USA; genocide in the Middle East; Russian invasions; hunger, sickness, general misery. We should fix the present so that we don’t echo the past. However………….
music has nothing to do with this. A march is a march. Clapping along to it is a silly tradition which people who know nothing about music or history like to do.
Would it help the folks protesting the march if people were only allowed to tap their toes, quietly, to the music?
As an Italian’ I have the feeling that in Italy nobody can care less, given more actual and pressing problems
It’s a horrible piece of music anyway, they picked the right conductor for it…
I think I might be able to win some money on this one.
Are you willing to offer some odds on your prediction Norman ?
The Greens are permanently infantile. This is the same cohort which wants third world countries to continue burning dung to cook their food to “save the planet”!!
If someone had written a “Hitler March” I’m pretty sure it would not get played, no matter how catchy. Radetzky wasn’t Hitler, but how bad do you have to be not to be memorialized every year through a piece of music heard around the world?
And with all the fuss on SD on Vienna New Years every year, may I suggest we are overlooking an arguably far more compelling New Years program – in Hamburg? https://youtu.be/7H2n8OEW7WU
The first piece of the concert was a german march, like the last, as an Anschluss revival. And the conductor à Karajan pupil. Nazi era nostalgy? Next time they can schedule Erika march…
Green party put their nose in a lot of subjects they shouldn’t instead of addressing ecological issues and when they do, their ideological bias is so strong they are counter productive. Stop of nuclear plants in Germany led to reactivate coal plants …the most dangerous totalitarian risk of our times.