Exclusive: Sir John Eliot Gardiner quits Trojans after singer incident
NewsWe are receiving multiple reports of an assault by the conductor Sir John Eliot Gardiner after a performance of the first part of Les Troyens at the Berlioz Festival in La Côte Saint André last night.
According to our informants, and with confirmation by a person authorised to speak on Gardiner’s behalf, Gardiner was annoyed that the English bass singer William Thomas, 29, left the podium on the wrong side.
Backstage, in the wings and out of sight of the audience, Gardiner, 80, rebuked Thomas in front of the cast, then slapped and punched him in the face.
This morning, it was announced to the cast that Gardiner was leaving for London immediately to see his doctor. Tonight’s performance will be taken over by his assistant Dinis Sousa. At this moment, he is still expected to continue the tour to Salzburg, Versailles, Berlin and the BBC Proms.
A representative of Sir John Eliot Gardiner told slippedisc.com that he was suffering last night from extreme heat in France and suspects that a recent change in his medication may have provoked a behaviour that he now regrets.
Photo from last night: Le Dauphiné Libéré/Benoit Almeras
UPDATE: The Telegraph has provoked a reaction from the BBC: The BBC is now investigating the alleged incident, with Sir John scheduled to perform during the Proms at the Royal Albert Hall on Sept 3. A spokesman for the corporation said: “We take allegations about inappropriate behaviour seriously, and are currently establishing the facts about the incident.”
UPDATE2: A message from the victim
People will have been waiting a long time for this ‘slip’.
The Slip – Brought to you by Slipped Disc.
Why so long?!
Not surprising. Wasn’t there an orchestra member at ROH he assaulted too at some point? He’s well known in the industry for being an unpleasant man.
Another incident in the growing file of incidents involving JEG – if you know the musicians in the orchestras he has conducted over the years, then you will hear the stories often enough, as I have. One violinist I know well calls fees earned under him “danger money”. Musically, he is marginally above other duffers like Norrington, but being slightly better he’s just about passable on a good day.
Old age nor medication are not to blame or explanations, they are excuses. No new medication (or any dosage of it) will improve him: he’s used to getting his own way and lashes out when he doesn’t, so it would seem. Outside the rarefied world of classical music, we’d call him a thug and stop engaging the man. But no, his ego, bad behaviour and engagements go unchecked. That’s the trouble with such people, they get away with it once, so they think it’s acceptable and keep doing it. It is not. He is a self-entitled pompous bore, who should have stayed on his farm with the cows.
I was tempted to catch the Berlioz at the Proms, but will now give it a miss.
I would encourage you to come to support the fine and skilled musician who is now leading us for the rest of the tour, Mr Dinis Sousa
That’s confirmed then?
I’m surprised no one has punched him back over the years. May have broken his bad habits.
Agreed
Well, hang on. The Beeb might yet cancel him
Don’t think so
Perhaps we’ve reached peak elderly; it’s time for them to retire BEFORE 80 and put a younger person at the helm. I want to hear from the younger generation myself.
So JEG still has gigs in Salzburg, Versailles, Berlin and the BBC Proms? So no consequences for his shameful behavior? Be aware, too, that rumor has it that David Daniels appears to have secured a couple of gigs in Europe. As if it needed repeating, the naked corruption and decay in the biz is nothing short of astonishing.
The know-all judging and avenging angel speaks! Dear me! How do you deal with the REAL problems of this world, starting with Trump and Putin? And please: I’d prefer “blatant corruption” as “naked” is so very risqué and offensive!
In my opinion it’s perfectly possible to be concerned about what you refer to as REAL problems of the world, and also to be concerned about JEG’s alleged recent behaviour. They’re not mutually exclusive.
Seeing that your reply received six dislikes (at the time of this post), at least I don’t have to worry about MMcGrath not having any friends. He obviously has five.
Most idiotic comment of the day.
Tu quoque logical fallacy, but way to deflect.
This happened literally a few hours ago, we don’t know abojt any criminal investigation, and you are shocked that he still has contacts that were signed years ago?
Here are some reports going back years: https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/do-conductors-have-to-be-cruel-to-be-good/
https://www.spectator.com.au/2015/05/the-heckler-why-does-john-eliot-gardiner-have-to-be-so-rude/
Exactly. This comes as no surprise.
From my personal experience, there are a few in the mix that are simply terrible human beings. It has nothing to do with keeping musicians “in check.”
I could be wrong, but I thought David Daniels was not going to be seeing the outside of a jail cell for quite some time.
Daniels and his husband pulled off a last-minute plea bargain that avoids jail time unless they violate their probation.
https://apnews.com/article/opera-singer-daniels-sexual-assault-3ff50b84bb8e9bb8115006b1c7362404#:~:text=Both%20pleaded%20guilty%20to%20sexual,to%20comment%20following%20the%20hearing.
He’s on probation, so he has to notify and get permission from his probation officer, for the next eight years.
He’s also a registred sex offender, so he has to notify the local registry of his movements, as well as the US Marshalls for travel outside and return to the US, as well as the foreign authorities to find out restrictions on entering/activities, for the rest of his life.
Gardiner in arrogant twat incident. What a shocker.
Yeah, not his first rodeo by all accounts…
Were there not reports that he punched an LSO trumpeter a few years back during a rehearsal?
There were, Pete, and he did indeed lamp said trumpeter, in 2014. The, er, physical aspect of the story was broken by the Spectator/Private Eye. Hilariously, Jiggy himself then rang the Speccie and demanded they take the story down from their website (personal knowledge, as they say).
So, a case of the shit hitting the fan(farer), as one wag i.e. my goodself pointed out at the time.
Yes.
https://rec.music.classical.recordings.narkive.com/MFf4CDZl/trouble-at-lso
One of these days he might end the career of a wind or brass player.
One of these days, his scrawny old ass might meet the business end of a younger, more muscular, fist.
He might take a swing at the wrong musician, that would be the one to give him a well earned BEAT DOWN. Older fella or not- step to one of us, you’re gunna get knocked the ffffff out.
Yes. He physically assaulted the trumpeter with a score. Nobody did anything.
Probably “nobody did anything” because the trumpeter, whoever he was, had already alienated everyone else in the orchestra somehow.
I mean, who among us have not wanted to punch a trumpeter?
Not excusing the behaviour, but why wasn’t the concert cancelled if the conditions were so bad? He’s an elderly man at the end of the day like any other!
Probably because the JEG the controlling bully would NEVER have allowed that to happen. Nice try
“Not” like any other elderly man. Not by a long shot.
Or perhaps more like any other elderly man with incipient dementia?? He could fall asleep during important occasions, as one world famous person in his dotage certainly does!!
Because of the old maxim, the show must always go on. BTW wasn’t his father an active member of Moseley’s British Union of Fascists. Maybe that’s how he’s learnt to use his fists before thinking with his brain.
Yes. His father was Mosleys henchman. Like father, like son.
“Like father, like son.”
Interesting concept. Why not suggest it to the Crown Prosecution Service? It could save a lot of time.
Obviously it doesn’t excuse what’s happened at all but as someone who has live with bipolar since my teenage years, I know how much even the smallest changes in my medication can cause me to react to things in completely irrational and shameful ways. I’m not saying that’s what Gardiner is definitely going through, but if, as this suggests, his medication is affecting his mental health then he truly has my sympathy.
Exactly this, 100%!
It really grinds my gears how everyone jumps on the bandwagon without knowing the full picture or even considering what might be behind it all. Richard Morrison wrote an article about this in this month’s BBC Music Magazine, specifically about how spiteful and vitriolic the classical music industry is, and how quick we are to tear each other down – no doubt fuelled by gossip sites like SD.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
Industry Insider says:
“Richard Morrison wrote an article about this in this month’s BBC Music Magazine, specifically about how spiteful and vitriolic the classical music industry is, …”
Yes, I’d say that decking one of your soloists in the face because he walked in the wrong direction is spiteful and vitriolic.
Jiggy is a vitriolic bully who has been protected by the business for far too long. Add his links with the Establishment, he is virtually untouchable.
I hope you have some sympathy for William Thomas and the rest of the cast.
If it had been anyone else (ie someone who wasn’t on schmoozing terms with the King) he’d have been arrested. It’s very sad – pompous bully that he is, in the right repertoire he’s a terrific conductor
This happened in France. I doubt that the gendarmes give a rat’s a**e that best pals with Charlie.
One might suppose that the reason Gardiner left for London so quickly was to avoid arrest.
Jenny I am sure that during the journey of your bi-polar you learned the difference between mood/ feelings and behaviour such as assault which is illegal. The two things are very different.
Then he has no business having any kind of power and needs to stay home and medicated.
The fact is, Jeggy’s music-making doesn’t have the punch that his left hook apparently does.
I’m not a fan and never have been one. Nor am I fan of “blaming the medication” BS from PR agencies. Let’s see how this plays out, but some accountability – and from Jeggy’s own mouth – is the minimum of what’s required here, not mealy-mouthed pablum spewed in print.
Bit of a shibboleth going on here. Gardiner’s nickname in the trade stems only indirectly from his initials. It is Jiggy not Jeggy and it goes back to his time at Bryanston. Decency forbids an explanation, but our hero greatly dislikes it, not least for that reason (again, private information).
Frequently misused even within the music industry, however.
Oh I don’t think this is the time to hold back and for the world to know about our hero’s dorm habits. I am not surprised he does not like the nickname. Because it confirms that in addition to his education aiding him in becoming an undoubted world class conductor it also aided him in becoming a world class onanist.
Well put, sir!
He once told me I could call hin Jiggy, or John Eliot, but never “John”.
If all else fails, blame the medication.
Sounds like it’s time for Aricept.
Or the Mint Chocolate Chip ice cream.
King Charles will be most displeased.
But tell me again how Tar wasn’t an accurate depiction of the classical music world.
Because JEG is a white man from an older generation. No way a self governing orchestra like the Berlin Phil would have voluntarily chosen to put up with a young female totalitarian like Tar.
That’s a truly crappy movie. It has nothing to do with being an accurate description of the classical music world. I told you so.
I know of his reputation within the scene. He is generally dreaded for his detestable attitude and arrogance. In any other profession, not only would he have been sacked but probably criminally charged. He should resign.
All those that have worked with him can attest to his behaviour. (which – given the time frames involved are possibly not weather nor medication dependent).
He has been over the top for a long time, blaming the heat is ridicolous.
Not if you call it global warming.
PLEASE let this not be brushed under the carpet like other such incidents in the past. To explain this away with heat and meds is frankly laughable. Most people in the industry know this behaviour to be entirely in character and his performing career really ought to have ended years ago. He leaves a vast catalogue of exceptional recordings but no level of musicianship is worth inflicting this behaviour on yet another generation of musicians.
But possibly the change in medication might improve his miserable baton technique…
Truth not being witheld!!!!
Totally agree with you . To his legacy of recordings I might add his outstanding biography of JS Bach. Interestingly , a recurring theme in that book being that Bach was an imperfect man despite writing great music .
JG is a living nightmare! I dislike him and all his recordings. His performances like his actions are rageful.
William Thomas appears to be a well-built young man. He likely could have flattened Gardiner with one punch. I would have, but his restraint is admirable.
Typical bloody conductor. They all think they are God Almighty.
This is one of the reasons I prefer quartets to orchestras: no conductor.
Come to Liverpool; we have some lovely ones.
Not the first time he’s done it
Let’s hope that one day the tables will turn.
…or indeed the tablets…
Please remember this is also the contract when JEG started casually throwing the word N*GGERS around in the rehearsal room
Thanks for posting. This needs publicity too, I hope it’s been reported.
Is there a Kansas City tie-in?
I think perhaps it is time he gave both himself & his baton a rest. Nobody is so good – so great – that they can act like that & get away with it. A toddler would be disciplined. Why not him?
There once was a lad named Jeggy,
At a Berlioz Fest, feeling edgy.
After the song, he threw a punch strong,
At the singer, so wild and ready!
A man named Jiggy, so bold,
At Berlioz Fest, stories are told.
In France’s hot weather,
He lost it together,
Punched a bass singer, quite cold!
Even doggerel is supposed to rhyme.
Rhymes are fine; the metre amd idiom are dodgy.
It is very well known by other singers about Mr Thomas behaviour too! Fights in nightclubs etc… I am sure there is more to this story…
As someone on this tour I can categorically tell you he did nothing that merits a punch or slap.
Did anyone backstage bother to intervene?
He should have punched back MUCH harder.
“Conniving little sh*t” is how Will Thomas was described to me not long ago, by someone else who apparently came very close to hitting him! I would not be surprised if there what actually happened at the after-show told a very different story…
It doesn’t matter how unpleasant someone is rumoured to be, it doesn’t warrant physical assault.
citation plz
Even if there is more to this story, it doesn’t excuse JEG, or his history
Extraordinary that anyone would take this line. It’s been confirmed by others present that Mr Thomas did nothing that merited physical assault, which is completely inexcusable.
If memory serves Will Thomas was a finalist in Cardiff Singer of the World last month. So it is utterly unsurprising and predictable to see this gifted 29 year old become the target of envy and malicious gossip from other London singers. JEGs own representative reported WTs alleged ‘offense’ as leaving the podium on the wrong side. Nothing more. Assault and battery of a singer is a serious criminal act for which JEG should be arrested and prosecuted. Such behavior would never be tolerated from a lesser mortal. Your insinuation that somehow seeks to blame the victim–a fellow singer, no less–is outrageous, invidious, and potentially libelous. As such I recommend that you delete it before WT or his agent gets wind of it.
What is this “leaving the podium on the wrong side” bs anyway? Did he upstage the maestro? Why was this such a horrid offense that needed slapping and punching?
This idiot needs to go, this type of behaviour is unacceptable.
Yes he has to go. But your boomer comment earned the thumbs down from me. How witless, unoriginal, and it just plain wrong-minded.
Boomers were born 1946 – 1964. Gardiner was born in 1943. He’s not a Boomer.
Reminds me of Barenboim…
Activate your body cams!
Yeah, he’s another overrated POS.
Looks like he doesn’t conduct himself very well.
Leaving the stage on the wrong side is hardly worth such excessive behavior. Getting yelled at by the maestro is bad enough, but getting punched on top of it is outrageous. I hope the conductor is sued.
What about the agents? Whoever thought it was a good idea to put a 29-year-old singer, known to be arrogant, difficult and aggressive with an 80-year-old conductor, known to be arrogant, difficult and aggressive, on a high-pressure tour of a 4-hour piece, needs to think a bit more about the project and a bit less about the dollar signs in their eyes.
That is an awful, OUTRAGEOUS opinion!
You are so right, we should always factor in unprovoked acts of violence between professional artists when creating these kinds of projects……
Maybe there were side wagers on who misbehaved first being made which haven’t been disclosed…
As my parents scolded me and my brothers, it doesn’t matter who started it. That defense is childish.
WTF?? What a unique perspective on real life.
What an utterly idiotic comment. LOL
Guest, I love how people think agents make so much money and only care about money. I worked in a major agency for 13 years, until covid hit, and I can tell you the staff don’t earn mega bucks and work so hard for artists. A contract like this comes up for an artist – it’s the artist who says yes or no to the job… they are the ones signing the contracts. I can assure you the agency I worked at cared deeply about the artists as human beings and helping them to develop amazing careers to make incredible music. I realise there are more crooked agents out there, but honestly you wouldn’t be an opera agent unless you loved opera… it’s a lot of work for not much money for most staff in agencies.
And even less money for most singers.
If you buy the medication argument, and I don’t, then the next question is: why was an 80 year old man whose medication had been changed and who, presumably, was told of possible side effects, conducting a five hour opera in extreme heat?
This kind of behaviour is inexcusable. Flaring up over a man leaving the stage on the wrong side? Suggests to me he should be stood down until the medication issue is resolved. If that’s what the problem is. And I don’t believe it is.
If you want a litany of inexcusable behaviour, a prime example can be found across the pond in the incumbent POTUS (and several recent POTUS).
Punching, groping… All in a day’s work. Shocked he survived Me Too. NDAs? Or cowed by the untouchability of an arrogant bully? Anyone for Panorama?
The late John Drummond would not have been surprised by this. In his autobiography “Tainted by Experience” he gave multiple examples of this overrated conductor’s arrogance, along with stories about Günter Wand, Bernstein and others.
It’s particularly embarrassing if you have been marketed as a humble, modest, countryside boy, and it then turns out that you are actually an aggressive testosterone-driven misanthrope.
Testosterone in an 80 year old?? Where? Please!!:-)
Male dominance is likely to have a ontogenetic hormonal basis.
While some men tend to get more gentle in temperament at old age (e.g., Riccardo Muti), others, like Sir John Riot, seem to have sustained a bold personality, causing the behaviour reported from La Côte Saint André.
Testosterone is unlikely in his case as a medicated octogenarian. If anything, overly estrous.
Seems that JEG was fortunate that Thomas had the self-restraint not to counter with a left-hook.
Hold the phone. Serial abuser has another excuse for his behaviour? Quelle surprise. Yet again the orchestra and choir members continue to be complicit in this all because of the ‘art’. They stand by and watch it happen time after time. Spineless musicians ruin the industry.
Do please explain how members of the choir and orchestra are “complicit” in the bullying behaviour of a conductor.
They were probably too shocked to retaliate. Plus would never be booked again, such is the sway in the business. Get in, play/sing well, get out.
Does this really need answering? JEG has been committing these or similar offences throughout his entire career. He apologises and his acolytes carry on as if nothing had happened. They talk and talk and they gossip some more but they don’t stand up for themselves. The abused leave or forgive and forget or maybe they get paid off quietly, and everyone else carries on. Rinse and repeat. Cowards. These musicians care more about their mortgage payments than their values. Geiger, this isn’t opinion, this is fact. JEG is nothing without the musicians he bullies on a regular basis. I could pick a conductor at random and they’d get a world class result out of the forces put in front of them.
Truth Teller says, “These musicians care more about their mortgage payments than their values.”
One supposes they value not getting evicted from their flats or having their homes foreclosed on because they couldn’t pay the rent or mortgage.
They put up with this because JEG chooses the musicians to whom he offers paid employment. Duh.
Well shouldn’t they stop complaining then? If they’re happy to put up with it in order to pay their rent, then they are both complicit and lack morals. Which is entirely my point. There’s plenty of work out there and they would all be employed by others seeking to fill the MCO shaped hole in the industry.
Plenty of work?? Post brexit and covid? Are you having a laugh??
‘Toots’, are you a freelance musician?
Mortgage payments are of course important, and affect the families of musicians too. You make many good points but workplace bullying – and other more extreme unacceptable behaviour – is often very difficult to stand up to, for perfectly understandable reasons. What is needed, of course, is a united front- and this is often difficult to achieve, and not solely due to failings on the part of those individuals involved.
Because they continue to work for an arrogant dilettante.
Im so glad I quit playing after spending 2 years in a London orchestra. Spiteful and arrogant personalities aside, even the pay makes it worth little. When I found out that even the LSO are still contracted as freelancers within their own orchestra I wept. I decided then and there that the UK was no longer where I wanted to make my music. Worst part is that the industry in this country is so insular that you have generations ready to believe in “the grind” just to barely make a living in their own city.
Don’t assume London is representative of the UK. It really isn’t. The LSO are freelancers through choice; better models are available.
LSO is Self Governing – the players own the orchestra. And a Committee voted by said players discuss money, tours, conditions, work etc.
This is such an insightful comment. Having a similar background to you I can say too that musicians in London are their own worst enemy and terrified to stand up for themselves.
I’ve often felt that by comparison to North America, the Musicians Union here is extremely weak. Worth checking my facts but as I understand it, you don’t need to join in order to get hired as a dep for a major orchestra? That completely devalues the point of there being a union in the first place.
Not to mention the fact that there are two major unions in the UK means that musicians are not able to assemble under a collective body, so there’s really no bargaining power. This musician is imposing larger fees for their event services? Hire that one instead! Hey here’s your first ever paid gig with a choral society, but we can only afford £70 for the day, and you have to bring your own truck load of gear! Sorry we really didn’t have the forethought to budget for proper rehearsals because our orchestra needs to pay its conductor fees and the money has to come from somewhere, hope you like sight-reading! (Just because you Brits are fantastic sight readers doesn’t mean it should be exploited to save costs).
Meanwhile as a former freelancer across the pond, I was an AFM member for 7 years and had the guarantee that no matter what gig I played I was owed a set base rate that remained unchanged regardless of who was playing. I keep getting told that there’s “so much work” here, but really it’s all crap. I can’t imagine the major orchestras here would be too happy to find out that they make the equivalent salary of a third year regional US group.
BAME your statements are shockingly ignorant. “Closed shops” ie the legal compelling of joining a trade union are illegal throughout the UK… absolutely nothing to do with music. There is only one “Musicians Union”. They have minimum rates for every type of gig imaginable… if a musician chooses to undercut this and go off- contract more fool them, they will have absolutely no legal protection when it all goes wrong.
The minimum rates for the MU are appallingly low when compared to the cost of living in the UK. The MU also doesn’t mandate doubling rates for instrumentalists, establishes daily rate as opposed to per service rates, and doesn’t mandate a number of rehearsals per project. There also exists the ISM, though not called a union it is still a collective body which suggests similar structures for musician engagement. All of the rates established were fine in the 70s and 80s, but this is unsustainable today.
To the point of compelling union membership, this protects musicians from orchestra administration. If an entire orchestra isn’t collectivized, there is no bargaining power in favour of the musicians. Right now British musicians are being pushed to the extremes of what workload they can handle in order to cut production costs.
How in the world is it that an orchestra musician can barely scrape by along poverty lines in their city, yet the person they play for on a given night collects a fee worth twice their annual salary for less and less rehearsal time?
1) The ISM has no affiliation to the Trade Union Congress and has never pretended to.
2) Many MU agreements have doubling/ trebling rates included.( Overdubbing although something different is an additional 110% of fee.)
3) Compelling all members of an orchestra to join the Musicians Union is ILLEGAL in the UK.
https://www.tutor2u.net/economics/topics/closed-shop#:~:text=A%20situation%20in%20which%20employees,agreements%20illegal%20in%20the%20UK.
So it really is a labour of love. But if you live on love the hunger pains will get to you!!
Hey, I may not have my dream music career anymore, but at least I can pay my bills, eat, and have regularity to my life! I still actively perform, although it’s for fun, and exclusively the music that I enjoy playing. Win-win scenario.
BAME … I’m so sorry that you wept upon hearing that the LSO PREFER to be taxed under schedule D …. Meaning they can reclaim all their business expenses including instrument purchases back from HMRC. Not many UK orchestras chose this model.
Some of your countrymen …Philip Mund ( principal horn ROH)
Clifton Harrison https://www.cliftonharrison.co/ have chosen London for their musical life….in preference to the US….each to their own…. You gave up being a professional musician…… perhaps it just wasn’t the life for you?
There is so much could write about the detestable JEG, none of it new news, we all know it, and this is just another example of how disgusting he is. No one should book him anymore, he surely must be finished. Stop blaming the weather/medication he is a bad tempered old b**tard, always has been. An old friend worked for him at the Monterverdi where he broke the bank insisting on performing all the Bach cantatas in the churches they were composed for etc-old news I know, but a massive vanity project for him, he ploughed on.
EUYO booked him (why?!!!) he was ok for the first few days but by the time they got to the RAH he was being so rude to some of the players….no surprise to some.
Yes he has hit people-has done again-take him to court, it’s an offence.
Doesn’t matter how good you think he is, it’s an offence and he’s not good at all, who remembers his dreadful Manson Lescaut, sadly I do, so do the LPO. He’s a bully, and they are no longer tolerated, anywhere, esp on the podium.
I wonder if ringside seats are still available for his forthcoming BBC Proms concert.
Chapeau, sir!
I’ve just checked. Apparently not. I’m sitting in a loggia for once. Hope I’ll get a decent queue of the fisticuffs.
Yes, I’ve always thought the Albert Hall is more suited to boxing matches than classical music
Heat, medication, no excuse is acceptable. I’m very sorry for Will’s treatment and there is no way that JEG should be permitted to continue work on this tour. The singers deserve to continue the tour, the director does not.
That guy is gonna get cancelled
Long overdue.
I’ve met Gardiner twice. Good musician, but bad person.
Water finds its own level with those two
I had the unfortunate experience of working closely with JEG many years ago. I have never met such a disagreable person in my life, and he seemed to always find a way to put everyone around on edge in expectation of yet another conflict starting. I have too many stories about him to fit into this comment section, but I will summarize with this. Once after a horrible incident that ruined a dress rehearsal and left the entire company fearful that the show might not even go on, I overheard two stagehands talking. One asked “why does he behave that way?” To which the other replied “because he is a ‘Sir’!”.
I trust that appropriate criminal proceedings will follow . I cannot now remember whether a foreign assault is covered by the Offences Against The Person Act 1861 , but if it is then it should be prosecuted here and JEG should be taught a lesson he will never forget
We don’t know all the facts and only have one side of the story. Context is everything.
The story clearly came from someone here, I think you have the context ‘Guest’. Even if WT called JEG a ‘senile old C’ it doesn’t constitute being punched. Here’s a question, and I genuinely want you to answer, what context can you think of that would make slapping and punching someone allowable? I look forward to your answer.
Context?
Being slapped or punched first.
I would assume that the initial pugilist was a fan of the Golden rule and wanted to be treated in the same manner with which he treated others.
There is no context which excuses a physical attack.
This is not uncommon. There are many professional conductors who are a pleasure to work with but there are well-established conductors who get away with bullying, and like Sir Elliot Gardiner, assaulting musicians. I myself, when I was a student was struck on the head by a conducting professor whilst his student conducted the university student orchestra. My “crime” was to play a violin entry too early by mistake and without warning, the conducting professor struck me on the head with his rolled-up conducting score whilst the orchestra was still playing. I was completely shocked by what had just happened and was frozen to my chair in disbelief (my desk partner who was also speechless).
No one in orchestra seemed to care which was also disappointing but that just shows the authority that these tyrant-type conductors have at these institutions.
In any other line of work you would be sacked and charges of assault brought forward.
It is about bloody time that conductors behave decently. Everyone knows you have no right to attack (unless in self-defence) yet in the classical profession this has yet to be addressed.
I really do not think that there are many conductors who do not behave ‘decently’. I have never heard of another conductor striking a colleague in 50 years of conducting; it did happen with Toscanini – and even Boult – in the the 1930s, but this is first time there has been ANY suggestion of it in this century. You really cannot bully a musician into performing with artistry;
Please do not stereotype conductors
Please read my statement again. At no point did I stereotype conductors – I said “There are many professional conductors who are a pleasure to work with” BUT there are well-established conductors who do not behave decently.” At no-point did I say “there are many conductors who do not” so please don’t put words into my mouth.
JEG has a had history of doing this and it is only now being discussed. Thankfully these instances are becoming rarer because victims take the courage to speak up and now have the support of their colleagues/wide public but just because you have not personally heard of any conductor bullying or assaulting players does not mean it does not occur.
My own experience disproves your point and I can add other examples from other musicians. In fact my violin teacher, who was leading a professional orchestra, had to reprimand the conductor because he threw his baton at a player in anger – this is not acceptable behaviour.
In general, professional classical musicians live a precarious existence and often often choose not to report it because it would mean loss of work, income and even career. There is a clear power-imbalance at work which I feel you do not appreciate.
As for your comment “You really cannot bully a musician into performing with artistry” clearly that is untrue – your own example counters your point – Toscanini is someone who produced great art despite shouting and screaming at the players. George Solti (whose nickname was the “screaming skull) is also another counter-example and I could name more.
It should read “professional musicians produce great art despite of the indecent behaviour they subjected to as well saving the performances from poor conducting, (poor conducting being a separate topic altogether).
In any other profession you would get sacked. I supplement my income by teaching children and young adults. If I acted this way, I would be sacked and not given a 2nd chance. My point is there should be zero-tolerance of this.
Barenboim did,several times.A well known cas is his choking his orchestra manager at Staatsoper Berlin until she had shaking trauma.
Hilary, I respect you as a conductor and I think you should read Violindude’s comment again. What they say is true. But with respect, have you had your head in the sand over the past 50 years? The number of times JEG has physically lashed out at someone, let alone verbally abused and bullied someone in front of others, is over a dozen. For one, he punched a trumpeter around ten years ago, reported also in Private Eye. Other examples are less obvious or newsworthy but the effects on the individual I can assure you are long lasting.
This comment section is disgusting to read.
How quick are people to judge – and no one was even there to see it happen.
This media lynchage is disgraceful; commentators have found someone to blame and they are so happy for it.
JEG is a superb musician and will always be supported by those of us who know that he is one of a kind.
And for the record (and to all of the stupid crowd who claim otherwise); this masterpiece Les Troyens and this upcoming tour without John Eliot is simply not worth going to.
Weren’t there dozens of witnesses, some of who are commenting?
Indeed.
It looks as though this commenter hasn’t read too closely. Perhaps he/she is fearful for his/her livelihood, given the grip that group has on people. If they’re good enough, they’ll be fine without him. It’s a big “if”. The choir in particular has long been a desperate hotchpotch. I don’t believe for one minute that Jiggy’s contribution to this production overshadows the several dozen others. It’s rather insulting to them to suggest otherwise, and especially to the replacement conductor. He’s one man, and not half as good as he thinks he is.
Sam? Is that you?
I would suggest thatthe last remark is extremely insulting to the performers
I agree that parts of the comments section are disgusting. The fact that people are able to justify physical assault on the grounds that the perpetrator is a fine musician is frankly sickening.
I’m sure the senile sociopath appreciates your loyal sycophancy.
Reminds me of Barenboim,who choked his orchestra manager at the Staatsoper Berlin until she suffered shaking trauma.
Anyone here wondering WHY William left the stage the wrong side? or what he said/did when Gardiner called on him? any respectful excuse from him? or condescending provocation perhaps? The WHOLE story must be told.
It was probably an accident, if Gardiner condescended WT because of it and WT had his own retort, so be it, it doesn’t demand a slap in the face. Few things in life do.
Why? What would make it ok to hit someone??
No, I’m not wondering these things, perhaps because I’m not in the habit of victim blaming or excusing physical assault.
There’s no place for this sort of behaviour or egotistical attitude where one might assume that if they use malady as an excuse, they can continue where they left off. Out of character? Sack him and strip him of his Knighthood! The victim should wipe the floor with him and so too should the rest of his merry band.
I find the pearl clutching around here highly amusing, especially in view of the extreme violence regularly associated with certain other genres.
But we can’t talk about that, can we?
I don’t know what you’re actually alluding to, but nothing is stopping you saying anything other than your own damn cowardice. There are many half baked comments below this article that allude to something but don’t say anything, and this from people using pseudonyms too. Unless you want to actually say something and make a difference, clear off.
First of all, you don’t tell me to clear off. NL, the owner of this blog, can do so if he wishes.
Secondly, cowardice has nothing to do with it. What is the worst that can happen? Several genres are associated with serious or extreme violence, rap perhaps being the worst.
Lastly, pseudonyms? My full name is Les Whittaker. What is yours? Or is TruthTeller your real name?
Les, you claimed that you can’t talk about something. No one is stopping you. “I find the pearl clutching around here highly amusing, especially in view of the extreme violence regularly associated with certain other genres.
But we can’t talk about that, can we?” Tell us what you mean, it might be insightful. I doubt it, but it might!
Truth Teller (Edward’s grandson)
I guess William Thomas can wear his being thumped by JEG as a guard of honour! Gardiner’s reputation as a bully goes back decades. Fortunately he is a consummate musician even if this fails to excuse his behaviour. He certainly is not the first to fall into this category. Don’t get me started on Georg Szell.
What a lovely person Sir John G is. Pity he’s such a bully boy- because he’s a very fine conductor when on form & his huge ego is under control.
How JEG hasn’t been withdrawn from the podium or ‘cancelled’ after years and years of such obnoxious behaviour is beyond me. One can be gifted and talented without being an egotistical twassock.
His Elgar disc with the VPO was definately a ‘kick in the pants’.
Hope it’s not a response to a certain rushed ‘vaccine’
Allow me to be the first one to take the courageous stance that it is not okay to hit people.
Guess he’s in the habit of using his hands to express himself.
This is not the first time that JEG has assaulted a musician. The usual excuse is “Artistic License” . Why don’t you ask the trumpet player from the LSO, amongst others who he vilified and assaulted? Yet managements from orcgestras continue to protect this vile specimen of an individual.
Why the fuss? The singer should be grateful to work with Sir John.
Bet you wouldn’t say that if he smacked you in the kisser!
I hope you’re being sarcastic…
Flaunt your masochism some more.
I’m sure things are happening, panicking agents/promoters BUT, what if he had hit a woman, a trans person, a black person, all hell would be pouring down on him now, from every corner, but because it was a young white chap no one seems too bothered about the actual offence. No excuses, meds, heat etc, he’s always been a bad tempered bully. He hit a trumpet player in the LSO a few years ago- after insisting the player be brought to his room, a heated discussion was followed by JEG punching him! Why is he booked still, evil, nasty (now old) …..man. Take him to court, physical assault.
DB says, “because it was a young white chap no one seems too bothered about the actual offence.”
You must not be paying attention. Almost everyone is bothered by the actual offense. That’s why it is in the news and we’re here commenting on it.
At age 80 there may be other reasons why a person would act uncharacteristically physically or aggressively, but best not spelled out short of a professional opinion from a doctor. If you get my drift.
He hasn’t been 80 years old throughout his career!
Sue Sonata Form, it wasn’t “uncharacteristically” physical and aggressive. He has done it many times and got away with it. People are scared to speak up, for fear of never working again. He slapped a member of my family excessively hard, in a rehearsal room at a major festival, for no apparent reason He is a nasty, privileged bully who thinks he can do as he pleases. Bravo to those onlookers who have witnessed and reported this incident.
Oh please, lady. He’s always been a walking sphincter.
Gardiner has always had dreadful anger management issues as everyone who has ever played/sung for him well knows. I myself narrowly missed being assaulted by him for no reason except that he mis-heard a comment from me that was trying to ease a situation that he had created whilst recording his Beethoven symphony cycle. I only escaped by nature of the fact that several desks of violas and cellos were in the way and he couldn’t get through them. At that point after being a loyal principal player in his orchestra for 8 years I decided that enough was enough and left shortly afterwards.
No excuse for slapping anyone. He needs to keep his hands to himself. If this assault is proven to be unprovoked, then there should be consequences. He is not above the law.
Well, that brings a much-needed end to the senile bastard’s career. Looking forward to seeing him get reamed in the law suit. Rot in hell, psychopathic twat.
Priam is such a minor role in the canvas of Les Troyens. It seems like Gardiner was simply looking for trouble, not focusing on the performances of the many principals in the opera.
I started my morning coffee with Slipped Disc heartened by Herbert Blomstedt’s appreciative comment he made about orchestra musicians. And then, reading this…what a sickening contrast.
Troubling that William Thomas is having his reputation tarnished so early in his career. Comments here could seriously affect his future working life. Artists are not usually doormats. He’s his own person, good luck to him.
Let’s wait and see apropos of the context and reserve judgement, the young man shouldn’t have been assaulted.
What we do know and what I know from personal 1st hand experience is that JEG has form and will turn on a sixpence in his treatment of singers and musicians. You’re in one minute, out the next. He has always felt the need to control people.
Singers are particularly vulnerable as on some level they are perhaps not considered to be ‘proper’ musicians.
I have witnessed him dress down singers and berate them publicly, sadly these incidents ended up with said singer broken and usually quite swiftly shown the exit, but only when they had been roundly and thoroughly humiliated.
Being as kind as I can be at 80 yrs of age physical and cognitive issues may be a factor…
If Mr. Thomas left ‘the podium’ on the wrong side as reported, that suggests he was on it in the first place. I can imagine other conductors feeling their space had been somewhat invaded.
The soloists podium not the conductors!
(1) Work on reading comprehension. (2) Victim-blaming is for idiots. Don’t be an idiot, or at least TRY not to be one.
While I can’t say to have “worked with him”, he was the bass soloist in the Berlin Radio Choir’s come-and-sing Creation last July. A fine bass, and he seemed to be getting along very fine with the conductor (Simon Halsey). And the singing was good too!
Is the Royal Allbert Hall being converted to a boxing ring for Sir John Elliott Gardiner’s next appearance?
I have it on good authority that last night’s opening night was a triumph and the cast thoroughly enjoyed it, probably due to the absence of JEG. Human brains don’t do well performing any task when under stress and pressure. Thanks to our limbic system protecting us from danger, it shuts down our “thinking” areas and memory access in favour of running away or fighting. Asking the singers to recall and perform under these conditions and expecting perfection is something we all recognise to be unreasonable and inefficient, not to mention scary (remember your driving test?)! These performances are stressful enough without a bully in charge. In addition, I want to address those who have wondered why the other cast members in this (or previous) performances, have not, in their opinions, taken affirmative action to address JEG’s long-established behaviours. Put simply, whistle-blowing is always terrifying and potentially career-ending. The singers need to pay their bills and cannot afford to lose contracts or end up with a reputation for being a trouble-maker for reporting and disrupting a run. Instead, they choose to steel and support each other to form a protective shield around each other, so when he leaves their presence, they can all debrief in safety. He should never conduct again.
How many times does this have to happen before people take it seriously?
It’s never ok to physically assault someone.
Why does JEG do this? Not because of heat, medication or any other excuse. He does it because he can and does get away with it every time. He is an entitled bully. It pains me to say it because for the many years I worked in his orchestras it was some of the most inspiring music making I’ve ever done. I saw countless incidents of his bullying and philandering. He gets away with murder and everyone forgives him over and over.
At what point will anyone call a halt to his unchecked behaviour?
This isn’t a one off- there have been many incidents during his career. Can the BBC really let him conduct at the Proms? What message is that sending out?
It’s just unthinkable.
Enough is enough.
Uff, it was so hot in la Cote Saint-André last night…
Let’s blame the climate change. That wouldn’t be the 1st nor the last chance.
‘The Telegraph has provoked a reaction from the BBC’. Oh come on, the BBC would have known about and dealt with this without the Telegraph ‘provoking’ them.
Here is the title of the article had the conductor not been British and instead a black conductor:
“Dangerous far left diversity conductor punches singer, police didn’t show up in time to shoot the perpetrator- SHAME!”
In fact, it would be nice to have a toggle that one can click to that changes it in real time, alongside a Photo of said conductor.
Well done, finding a way of dragging race into this.
Tenor? Not all that observant are you mate
“The kid has a punchable face” has to be one of the vilest, most despicable responses to this incident I have seen. A 29 year old vocal soloist (not a “kid”) has been physically assaulted. Get a grip.
I have enormous respect for Sir John Elliot Gardiner but if this incident did take place as reported, then he must be held to account and face a different style of music. Nobody should be subjected to abuse and, of course, Sir John, like the rest of us, is not above the law.
The best JEG story I ever heard was from one of the orchestras with whom he worked a lot (all identities witheld for obvious reasons) JEG had given a particular section of the orchestra a thorough bollocking for no good readon during the rehearsal so during the concert in a piece that didn’t involve said players, they happened upon JEG’s face towel hanging up in the wings waiting for the maestro to wipe his fevered brow on in the interval. Quick as a flash they dropped their pants and each one in turn gave the towel a good once around their private parts. They then replaced the towel as if nothing had occured. Imagine their glee on finding JEG wiping his whole face down in the interval with the offending article . It’s a story we’ve all dined out on for many years. Couldn’t have happened to a nicer bloke.
The groin area is a source of pathogenic bacteria. At the very least he could end up with Thrush, crabs, Herpes, or the Clap.
I could understand some harsh verbal comments for wrong notes or late start (nom physical abuse) but for leaving the stage on the wrong side? What is the right side then? And who gives a sh…?
Biden friend material.
More Cadet Bone Spurs.or sticky Rudy Giuliani
The victim should have reported the assault to the Police and consulted his solicitor, this behaviour should be stamped on hard 100%.
Is this a Slippedisc classic, or what?!?
Monty Python couldn’t have done better! Paging John Waters!
Another relevant “article” is perhaps “Lunch with the FT” 15 Jan 2010 — “The conductor delivers another commanding performance when Andrew Clark visits him for a home-grown meal – and a tour of his Dorset farm.”
I say, punching someone for exiting wrongly. At his age, do you suppose it’s his willy?
The French heat is certainly not the reason. One can get used to that.
The heat is in his character , implementing to be the greatest one ….. He has not the human qualities.
A great! ( humanly) maestro was Abbado for example.
This man is just a conductor, Sir!.
I know by personal experience what I talk about.
Being humble should be one of the most important qualities to be a great musician….
Amazed he’s still performing, his reputation has preceded him for years and there’s no way this can be blamed on medication. Open secret among bookers and agents that he can’t be allowed in a lift alone with a woman either. Horrible little man.
Grow up, people! Stop attacking each other.