Just in: Vienna Phil rolls out 2024 conductor
NewsMessage received:
The Vienna Philharmonic New Year’s Concert will be conducted for the second time by Christian Thielemann on January 1, 2024.
His appointment precedes the release of all 11 Bruckner symphonies in the Bruckner bicentennial year of 2024.
Daniel Froschauer, Chairman of the Vienna Philharmonic, said: ‘We enjoy a deep artistic partnership with Christian Thielemann since many years, particularly in the symphonic sector, and he is one of the Philharmonic conductors who is closest to the orchestra.’
Looks like women conductors will have to wait a few more decades.
Photo: © Matthias Creutziger/WPhil
Oh give it a rest for once. You know exactly how they choose conductors and why.
Really? You know it exactly? Oh, I can’t wait – please, tell us HOW!
in all honesty I’m not to well informed on what the procedures and politics are for these things, so I actually would appreciate someone chiming in on what the process is:)
The orchestra manager just last week said that the conductor would always be someone they had worked with regularly for at least a decade. So that reduces it down to a very few people. Names who are well known and in this case they have a bug Bruckner box to sell.
It’s a big commercial enterprise at the end of the day. They’re not going to hand it to a novice. Or someone they don’t get on with.
For Starters, they only choose conductors for that concert who have worked with the philharmonic for at least 10 years, as published by an article on her a few weeks ago.
At lest this time time they chose a conductor who partly cut his teeth in operetta. Like him or not, Thielemann knows the idiom.
I alerady did the 1st and it was the worst show of the last 25 years.
The worst choice possible. He s a Man for Bayreuth.
Thielemann is far from ideal for the NYD concert, but I can think of many who would be worse. But you’re quite right: he’s a conductor who is way better in the opera house. For me, one of the two finest Wagner conductors we have….
I have seen him in Bayreuth for Tristan he was the good man at the good place but for the first it s not the good man. And I have seen all the New year concerts since 1987.
totally agree as his last was simply awful – cold and Prussian
I agree Concertgebouw- an unfortunate choice as illustrated by his last outing in 2019- CT is a perfectly OK conductor in more serious Germanic repertoire but as the leader of the NYD Concert- he has all the charisma of an Einsatzgruppen Fuhrer. By the way- I thought FW-M did a terrific job this time around achieving playing of high style, a nice gemutlich & togetherness from the VPO- which hasn’t always been the case in recent years. He’s well over his ‘Frankly Worse Than Most’ nickname awarded to him by some cynical critics & players in the LPO- decades back (undeserved actually- as I attended some good concerts by him & the LPO then & found him to be a charming man in brief chats backstage). ‘Frankly Better Than Most’ I say now. Could never understand why Manfred Honeck- never asked to conduct this concert- a hundred times more suitable than CT- as a former VPO player imbued in the Viennese tradition.
Its like asking Fred Aster to play Rocky
That’s entirely possble
I liked very much the program. He kept the rehashing of overly familiar works to a minimum and explored lesser known gems. I heard a nice balance between melancholic and joyous works.
Boy I can’t wait not to watch it !
Thielemann is not that exciting to watch. He doesn’t put a visual show for the audience. He just conducts the orchestra. The musical result is often worth listening to.
Guys like Leporello listen with their eyes…
My pet peeve is assessing conductors by watching them. Unless, of course, they are orchestral musicians who know the work being performed.
Try to watch Zubin especially in 2007, the editions with Pretre and Mariss. That s the real show!
Awful. Freemasons?
His Bruckner is awful too.
You wha? Mad person starts 2023 madly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Loo0OUSfeo
Thanks Petros, Kurt Moll’s singing is divine, but how is this relevant? Was that Zauberflöte conducted by Thielemann?
He meant to say, conducting Magic Flute is about as close to freemasonry, as Thielemann gets.
I meant is as a rejection of hate. Read the lyrics. Admittedly the reference was too indirect to be understood without explanation.
in the meantime, while waiting for a women conductor, Thielemann can include pieces by women composers, like the waltzes of Florence Price (you can google it), which the Philharmonic can have orchestrated
Vienna playing a waltz by a black American woman, the audience might just burn down the Musikverein
This is such mad age that I can’t no longer tell if you’re for real or just trolling
The best possible choice. His previous concert was outstanding. The best since the second Kleiber one.
Haven’t seen this year’s yet, but he knows the idiom, so great.
Excellent choice. CT knows how to make this repertoire come alive.
Is there any woman conductor at the same level of Thielemann ?
I love rhetorical questions.
I know just one : Danielle Gatti !
Lets not get started on Gatti, women & woman conductors!
The best for Bruckner this moment….
If only that were true. It’s true we’re in a fallow period for Bruckner conductors. But I’ve heard some stunning Bruckner from Herbert Blomstedt, Hannu Lintu (the 5th – one of the most difficult to successfully put across), and Juanjo Mena (the 6th). All of them make me want to hear more Bruckner from them. And I’m sure there are others who will come along.
For me, the problem with CT’s Bruckner is that it’s micro-managed to death. He excessively focuses on the details and somehow misses the big picture. His Bruckner is devoid of tension and trajectory in my experience.
I wish CT was the second-coming of Karajan in Bruckner. But so far based on what I’ve heard, he’s just not.
CT is infinitely closer to the second coming of Hans Knappertsbusch than HvK. Both dreadful bores musically.
Herr Doktor, parroting David Hurwitz is nice. Thinking for oneself is better.
Fernandel, you owe me an apology. I’m hardly parroting David Hurwitz. In fact, I have no idea what he’s even said about CT. Although I gather from your comments he doesn’t care for CT’s Bruckner.
It’s not that CT’s Bruckner is bad – that’s not a fair assessment. It’s just that it’s indistinct, falling far short of what’s possible with this extraordinary music.
Hurrwitz is such a hot air balloon. These times are crazy.
At least in the old days of print media and radio, pages and timelines HAD to be filled.
But nothing has to be filled in the age of the internet. In his case less would be more.
Poor Vienna Philharmonic, which knows nothing about Bruckner and has zero history playing Bruckner, decided out of the blue to record the entire Bruckner cycle over 3 years for his bicentennial, and just randomly chose the worst Bruckner conductor ever by pure bad luck.
If only they consulted you first, we would be getting the Juanjo Mena cycle.
Well, your comments made me laugh, so thank you for that!
Your response represents a distortion of what I said, but that’s fine, nuance doesn’t necessarily travel well.
I never said CT is the worst Bruckner conductor ever. Nor did I say I want to hear an entire Bruckner cycle of Juanjo Mena. But I would be interested in hearing less Bruckner of the former and more of the latter, for sure. Maybe Juanjo Mena can only do one Bruckner symphony really well. But he does that symphony so well (when many others don’t) it makes me want to hear more Bruckner from him.
Mostly agree. it doesn’t flow enough. or is it no eros? always somewhat strange to mention that topis in connection with Bruckner, but under the surface it has lots of eros, even if transcended into the religious projections.
But I enjoy his Bruckner.
But our times has no Furtwängler. His Bruckner was in another league. And had all the uninhibited flowing affections, including an unblocked Eros. Or was it the way orchestras phrased and articulated back then, that helped Bruckner (and less so Mozart)?
Wishful thinking on my part. That should read, “he”, not “I”.
I would say van Zweden, but he’s not popular at all. His Bruckner recordings are really good. I just gave a very Bruckner 5 in San Francisco (not exactly a great Bruckner orchestra).
John McEnroe (loudly) : “Van Zweden ??? You can’t be serious!”
Looking forward to explore two extra Bruckner symphonies…
I really want to see Myung-Whun Chung conduct the new year’s concert soon. Not only is he exceptional as a conductor there hasn’t been an Asian conductor to do the New Year’s Concert don’t Seiji Ozawa. He is also a great pianist. Perhaps they could take advantage of that and do something different. I love the new year’s concert so much but of late it’s been just little boring 🙁 Kleiber is dead (God bless his soul), Petre is dead, Jansons is dead…. I mean I don’t want to see Welser-Moest again. Thielman’s last appearance was not inspirational. So bring someone new please. Chung who has never been invited could be perfect.
An interesting suggestion Nathan. I concur Chung is a fantastic all round musician- but not ideally suited to this event. Lest we forget- also the VPO- with its supremacist history- may not be ready for an Asian conductor as yet. Having said that- the number of Asian kids now in the Vienna Boys Choir suggests that the Austrians certainly know their market & where the money is coming from. Plus ca change in that regard.
If they could bring Seiji Ozawa in early 2000s I think they could easily do it again. Like you mentioned it would be a good business move as well. When you say Chung is not ideally suited do you mean musically? If you suggest that Chung hasn’t proven that he can do the Viennese waltz you would be right. However, breaking expectations would be exciting. Also, I always think that with the Vienna Philharmonic it is virtually impossible to mess it up 🙂 Knowing Chung’s interpretation of Mahler and Austrian operas and music I think he can do something truly different and great for the New Year’s concert.
Whatever some questionable attitudes among VPO musicians may be, they didn’t get in the way of inviting Seiji Ozawa and Zubin Mehta for more than half a century, in their entire range of activities, including the most Viennese of events: the New Year’s Day concert and the annual Ball. Ozawa last conducted the VPO in 2016, Mehta in 2022.
There is no “supremacist history” of the Wiener Philharmoniker, and 21 years ago a certain Seiji Ozawa conducted the New Year’s Concert, and he is Japanese and by many people considered Asian …
Asians don’t waltz.
For a conductor to be invited, he must have actually danced the waltz, in public, with a partner, at least once, in his life.
I know you are speaking in jest, but that is like how they used to say Asians don’t understand Brahms or you have to be a German to understand Brahms. Also, I think Chung on more than one occasion danced waltz if not in public. They can make that request to him so that we can bring him! 🙂
While I would be thrilled to see my fellow countryman conduct this event, the problem is that Mr. Chung is not one of those who have conducted the Philharmonic regularly for at least 10 years or more. He has conducted only 5 concerts between 1995 and 2016. So it is not likely that he will be invited. Also, when he did conduct this orchestra in its Korean tour in 2016, their encores included Brahms and no Strauss family at all. I have not been able to see any record of him conduct Strauss’ music with other orchestras, either. I suspect Mr. Chung may not be interested in conducting the Strauss, so it looks very unlikely that they will invite him or that he would even accept to do this event. Those who ever appeared in this NYD concert, including Seiji Ozawa, had conducted this ensemble regularly before they did this concert for the very first time.
Good points you make. However, at the musical caliber that Chung sits I tend to think he can learn new works and do it well. Strauss sjould be no exception I think. Based on what you laid out Chung might not be most well suited in terms of recent familiarity with the VPO but in terms of doing things differently and bringing change I still think he is a compelling choice. If Dudamel and Nelsons can get invitation Chung should be able to. Also from my understanding I don’t think the 2 aforementioned conductors had conducted much Struass when they were invited. I mean regardless of who I would like to see some freah face and a pair of hands up on the podium rather soon.
What!?! How do know which Asians waltz, and which ones don’t. I’m hoping you’re not being serious.
Given some of his past comments, to say Thielemann has a special closeness to the orchestra can carry an unfortunate mixed message–a kind socio-political dog whistling–especially in conjunction with the orchestra’s recent comments about women conductors. All part of the discrete underworld of Vienna that hides behind the Sachertorte facade?
Take it easy.
The NY concert is all about lightness of being (and a PR excercise). Not about politics or artistic challenges.
Relax!
Excellnt choice! In his excellent New years concert 2019 he gave the music back a symphonic dignity which seemed forgotten since the days of Erich Kleiber and Furtwängler.
I’m mildly amused that some people seem to fail to understand what kind of conductors are chosen to conduct the New Year’s Concert. The conductors must of course belong to the those conducting on of the Abonnementkonzerte or subscription concerts, and must have shown their ability to conduct this very special and very Viennese music. It’s as simple as that. The New Year’s Concert is not a show or pr event with some randomly chosen conductor, but a serious, albeit very popular concert performed by a serious and highly renowned orchestra, some say one of the best in the world.
Why hasn’t Manfred Honeck been invited
to conduct the New Years concert ? He’s
from and lives in Austria …his brother is
one of the concertmasters of the orchestra ….and Honeck himself was once a member of the orchestra for 10
years ….and Johann Strauss Jr is one
of Honeck’s specialties ! Strange tales
from the Vienna woods !
Honeck is not invited, because he is not in an established long term working relationship with the orchestra as a conductor.
And that is probably due to him being one of them originally. A common psychodynamic in groups, not accepting former “commoners” as new leaders, if external ones are available. It’s a “territorial” thing.
Probably it will happen eventually, but only when he is old (enough).
I agree he would be a great fit for this event, last but not least musically.
Manfred Honeck is a fine conductor. But the (childish) way he mimicks Carlos Kleiber has any Philharmoniker laughing his head off…
It’s not more childish to me, than Carlos Kleiber mimicking his own extensive exercises in front of a mirror at home…
Hi Fernandel- Kleiber is a good guy to mimmick. By the way- also very difficult to do as a conductor. Perhaps Honneck just has a natural talent comparable to that of his idol on the podium.
Perhaps not…
The “common psychodynamic” which Tamino describes didn’t prevent Willi Boskovsky from being asked to conduct the NYD concert for 25 years.
For me, the hierarchy of NYD conductors reads thus:
1. Carlos Kleiber
2. Willi Boskovsky
3. Herbert von Karajan
The only others whom I’ve really enjoyed are Abbado, Harnoncourt and Muti.
When I asked my sister about this dude she said simply ‘he’s a Nazi’.
I asked what she meant and she described him as agood conductor but quite far right and nationalist.
He is ‘einer von uns’ as they say…