Now Ryanair refuses to board a bow
OrchestrasFrom Georgina McGrath:
I’m very sorry to share that I had a horrible experience with Ryanair today. I feel I need to share this in order to try to stop this happening to other musicians.
I was finishing a week of touring, and was travelling with a small, narrow bow case. This case easily fits on top of other luggage stowed in the overhead lockers, and does not take up any additional space. As such, double bassists are never required to either book an extra seat or pay extra to take these small cases into the cabin.
I have worked professionally for over 14 years and never encountered an issue travelling with this item. This week alone I took the same bow case on 3 other flights with no issue – one of these flights was also with Ryanair.
Today the staff refused to allow me to board with this item. They told me my options were to not take the flight, pay £60 for an additional bag charge, or they would call the police to remove my bowcase.
They were extremely aggressive, rude and confrontational. They would not allow me to finish a sentence, and were talking over me, shouting and laughing at me. They left me shaking and in tears, as can be attested by the staff who greeted me on the flight, who were horrified to hear how the gate staff had behaved. The staff onboard were the complete opposite – they took extra care to check I was ok during the flight, and the supervisor came to see the bowcase in question and confirmed there was no reason for the treatment I received from the gate staff.
There was no reason for the denial of taking this small item on board, and there was absolutely no reason for the nasty and aggressive behaviour of the staff, which included an older female employee literally laughing in my face. The gate staff refused to give me any details such as their staff numbers to add to this complaint.
They were highly unprofessional and the behaviour they exhibited amounted to nothing less than bullying. They took obvious pleasure in my distress and were vicious. Several other people boarded this flight with garment bags, which they were not charged for.
I doubt Ryanair will even acknowledge this or my formal complaint, so I fully expect I’ll need to take this to their regulators.
Such a rude and penny pinching outfit. EasyJet are always nice
Hi Georgina, do I need to downvote all the comments or just the one by ‘Also a double bassist’?
Wow, classy. Explains why there are so many downvotes on that comment but not the rest of the page.
So:
– you accept there is a clear limit for carry-on luggage
– you accept your carry-on luggage breaks this limit, but nonetheless you still describe it as “small”
– you accept you did not pay for your luggage when booking your ticket (and this would have only been a small amount)
– you accept you refused the option of paying the additional bag charge at the gate
– you accept you did not check with the airline prior to your flight or ask for an exception in advance
– you nonetheless feel entitled to special treatment to break the limit at the gate without paying anything, as if you deserve better treatment than all other passengers
– you are now complaining online because you did not get your way
– you are making untrue claims such as “staff refused to allow me to board with this item”, where in fact you were allowed, but you had just refused to pay when booking or at the gate
– you likewise make assertions such as “double bassists are never required to…pay extra”, even though this is in clear contradiction with the ticket you bought with your airline
– and your only excuse is “but I got away with it on the flight before”…
Your behaviour undermines those who have genuine complaints and bad experiences with airlines.
You knew you were breaking the rules and you thought you could get away without paying. You thought you were more important than the other people on that flight who either stick to the rules or pay for their luggage.
As for “shaking and left in tears”…
If you want to play a game of “can I take extra luggage without paying”, don’t go crying for sympathy when you’re challenged.
Great comment.
Georgina didn’t think this through. Now, whenever someone does a Google search for ‘Georgina McGrath double bass’, the first article will be this one, explaining how she didn’t pay for her luggage and tried to blame other people for it.
As mentioned below, I paid for hold luggage so I was only carrying my bow case onboard.
You just don’t get it, do you?
https://help.ryanair.com/hc/en-gb/articles/12888036565521-Ryanair-s-Bag-Policy
Ryanair is clear that the carry-on limit is up to 40 cm. Your bow case is 80 cm.
I try and get lucky when taking my hockey stick as carry-on, but I know if challenged I need to pay for it.
Yes the rules are annoying, but that doesn’t mean you can just ignore them.
Georgie, do you not know how to do math, conceptually or spatially?
Your luggage in hold is 1 item, your case in cabin is another item. That makes 2 separate items.
That logic applies to everyone, whether you’re a bassist or not.
When you NOT travelling as a bassist, say when you’re on vacation, do you still count like that?
Crazy entitlement from Georgina.
Anyone who flies RyanAir knows cabin bag limits are 40 x 25 x 20 cm, that cabin space is limited and there are checks before boarding, but add-ons are possible for a small fee if booked in advance.
But Georgina didn’t want to pay, she just turned up with an 80 cm case and it’s everyone else’s fault.
A bow case is 80x5x4 so it’s one tenth of the volume of Ryanair’s baggage limit. So yes it’s over the limit for someone who is obsessive about rules, but most reasonable staff accept that it’s no problem to take one on board as your carry-on allowance.
Ryanair is not known for being flexible
Per her description, their rude and aggressive behavior at the gate may play into the problem. Ryanair is a business, and there is a polite way to say no to a paying customer.
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Next Georgina will be complaining she needs to pay for a ticket for herself
“I feel I need to share this in order to try to stop this happening to other musicians.”
Other musicians pay for their luggage Georgina, and, if they try to get lucky by not paying, they accept it and pay up when they are caught
People like you increase prices for everyone else
Why should Georgina have to pay like everyone else?
(sarcasm…)
You must be great fun at a party.
So:
– You pretend to know the details of her cabin bag allowance
– You falsely characterize her 13 years of experience with airlines as “getting away without paying”
– You use faulty logic, stating she WAS allowed to board with the bag, entirely missing the point that her complaint was that the conditions were not the same.
– You justify inhumane treatment because she allegedly “broke the rules”
If, for whatever reason, you have insider knowledge that we don’t, and that you do in fact know that she “accepted” all the premises you mention, it still wouldn’t justify defending the airline. You know why? Just like stealing doesn’t justify capital punishment or revenge by the victims, infractions do not merit inhumane treatment. The fact that you can’t understand this simple fact means that you have a lot of soul-searching and a lot of book-reading to do.
(Also, if you had the time to type out all that out of pure bitterness, you might have practiced. Clearly, your bitterness stems from your unsuccessful life as a musician. Just try harder in all areas, and maybe life will reward you. )
https://help.ryanair.com/hc/en-gb/articles/12888036565521-Ryanair-s-Bag-Policy
Ryanair carry-on limit: 40 cm
Her bow case: 80 cm
“I got away with it in the past” is not a free pass to be able to choose your own luggage restrictions.
She was allowed to fly with her case, she just had to pay like the other passengers did.
I’d love to know how you travel with your bow if you’re “also a double bassist”.
As mentioned below I had already paid an additional fee to put my bag in the hold so I was only carrying my bowcase.
If you are indeed also a double bassist then you ought to know the position regarding carrying bowcases on flights.
As for your rude comment about my being upset – I’m afraid that if three people shout at me, refuse to let me speak, laugh in my face and so on then my reaction is going to be to become distressed. Maybe yours would be different but I am not by nature a confrontation person. It’s not very nice to be so unkind about a fellow musician.
Feel free to contact me via mas if you want to discuss any of this with me. I’d be very happy to talk with you.
“position regarding carrying bowcases on flights”
What?
Where does Ryanair say ‘hand luggage has a limit of 40 cm but if you play the double bass you can have 80 cm?
“Also a Double bassist” – your comment is so nasty and aggressive!
Better to understand that the airlines will always win in these circumstances, rather than the passengers!! Ever noticed their small-print tomes, ‘terms and conditions’? Read them and be utterly gob-smacked!!
Is it wrong that airlines do not think enough about what musicians need? Yes.
Is it wrong that Georgina tried to save £30 (price is doubled at gate) by not adding her bow to her booking, then played the victim when she was called out? Yes.
Great to hear some common sense. Does she think passengers can decide themselves what limits apply?
There was a clear limit, she admits she ignores this and tries not to pay when she flies. This time, she got caught and was still offered the chance to fly with her bow if she paid the difference. What is her problem?
I had already paid an additional charge to check my bag into the hold so I was only carrying my bowcase.
https://help.ryanair.com/hc/en-gb/articles/12888036565521-Ryanair-s-Bag-Policy
Ryanair is clear that the carry-on limit is up to 40 cm. Your bow case is 80 cm.
If the bow exceeded the length maximum for carry-on items, a customer should just paid the fee graciously. The fact that other airliness allowed one to exceed the limit is irrelevant. RyanAir is an ultra low-cost airline, so the flight probably cost less. This “problem” was not important enough to argue about, much less cry.
What does she want the regulator to do!? Tell Ryanair that they were wrong for asking someone attempting to bring over-sized baggage to pay for their over-sized baggage?
Hi Audrey, I want the regulator (or the airline) to ensure the staff in question do not behave so badly towards passengers – they were just horrible, there’s no other word for it! I would also like it if a guideline could be put in place to confirm the rights of musicians travelling with various instruments. I was also advised by the head of staff onboard the plane to put in a complaint.
‘Several other people boarded this flight with garment bags, which they were not charged for.’
She sounds very confused here.
With Ryanair, passengers get a small carry-on free and can pay for a second, larger carry-on when booking.
The other passengers were not charged because they would have paid for their luggage when booking.
Her problem is she turned up without paying and hoped it would be fine, then tried again at the gate to avoid paying. It’s difficult to have sympathy for her when all she does is blame other people.
The passengers boarding with garment bags had these as their carry on bags in the same way I had my bow case as my carry on bag. They also would not fit in the specified size for the small carry on bag, which is why I mention them. Not confused but perhaps confusing in the way I spoke about them!
As mentioned in my comment on this post, I had already paid to put my bag in the hold so I could carry my bowcase on board.
Your case in the hold is irrelevant.
https://help.ryanair.com/hc/en-gb/articles/12888036565521-Ryanair-s-Bag-Policy
Ryanair carry-on limit: 40 cm
Your bow case: 80 cm
Your carry-on was over limits and you tried to get it on without paying.
Take some accountability.
Sarah, I’m getting bored of seeing the same comment from you every time Georgie replies to anything. Please at least vary it up a bit if you’re going to repeat the same argument that no one is doubting!
Georgie is a lovely person who I’ve been lucky enough to work with several times (including on tours) and the fact that the staff were this rude to her is absolutely horrifying. No one deserves to be treated the way she’s described and from other reviews of the airline, it seems to be not an uncommon occurrence. Why don’t you try checking your humanity rather than your facts?
Someone else said it well earlier.
It’s wrong if the staff were rude.
It’s not wrong if the staff asked her to pay for her extra luggage.
The crucial information missing here is, if this was her only carry on item, or additional. While a bow case still might exceed the dimensions specified for the free small carry on item (even only in the length dimension, not in effective volume) it should be common sense for gate staff (often not airline personell directly, but airport handling agencies) to allow it.
If it‘s an additional item, then she needs to book it and pay the fee.
If she were serious, she would send her reservation to Norman and we could see this.
Will do!
I had indeed already paid for my bag to go in the hold so my bow case was my only carry on item.
Ryanair carry-on limit: 40 cm
Your carry-on: 80 cm
Calm down Sarah Kennedy, no need to reply to every single comment with this. We get the point. I know Georgie and she is a lovely and non-confrontational human being. The focus of this article (which seems to have been entirely missed by you) is that the staff from the airline treated her incredibly poorly, which is unacceptable under any circumstances. There’s never a reason for 3 people to verbally attack one lone woman.
I can presume from your constant replies all with the same content, that you’re set on trying to make some kind of point but I fear that you’ve overlooked the human side of this with you “logic”.
Sure, but there is a grey zone, where regular direct airline employees with some common sense left will still allow a bow case that is longer, but small in volume, and fits well in any overhead bin.
Now it‘s different with the 3rd party handling agencies particularly low cost carriers usually use for check in. Those feel less authority to bend the (too simplistic in the first place) rules to allow something on a flight, that they do not work on later themselves. Also those are not the best jobs, and the people match that. She encountered a tough nut, and yes the rules on paper were not on her side. Appeal to common sense does work less and less these days. I‘m positive the captain of the flight would have allowed the bow case without extra charge as her only carry on item.
I once carried a case of family silver on board a plane, which was handed by the agent to the pilot, who stored it in the cockpit. I did not look like a terrorist, and the pilot was gracious.
It was either American Airlines or Southwest, decades ago. Politeness has gone out the window.
Please, everyone, stop picking on this musician. She was within her rights.
I was once denied boarding on a EU national flight with Ryanair. I presented my residency card to Ryanair as my lawful ID. They said it was”their policy” that all non EU members have to fly with their passport. The law says otherwise. That a resident can travel within the country of residence with just their residency card. I took them to court, and won all of my expenses, including the extra ticket I had to buy to get to my destination. That was the last time I flew with Ryanair. If you don’t want to put up with their crap, don’t fly with them.
Very telling in her story that everyone else is in the wrong yet doesn’t reflect on the fact that she was the one who hoped she could sneak in extra luggage without paying.
I do not even know how I ended up here but I thought this post was great I dont know who you are but definitely youre going to a famous blogger if you arent already Cheers
This would have been a non-issue had she just paid for the bow in the first place.
What is incredible is…even after being caught out, she says she still refused to pay and then started crying when she found out she couldn’t get away with it.
So Georgina doesn’t pay for her bags, is rude when staff (probably minimum wage and deserve it least of all) point it out, still refuses to pay, then starts crying and makes a complaint on here for sympathy?
Got it. I’ll try that technique for my next council tax bill and let you know how it goes.
Perhaps some clarity to address some of these comments.
– Reading my post again I can see I left out the (important) fact that I had paid Ryanair’s additional charge to check my bag into the hold. I did this so I could carry my bowcase as my small personal item. I was not trying to carry an extra item onboard without paying for the privilege of an extra item. I had paid already to get rid of one of my items so I was only carrying one onboard.
Of course a bow case is too long to fit under the seat- it is very narrow but long (about as long as an average sized arm). It fits on top of all the other items in the overhead lockers, much in the same way a rolled up coat would and doesn’t take up additional space that other passengers would need to place their bag there.
The staff onboard the plane came to see the item and confirmed there was no reason that I couldn’t take the bowcase onboard.
Your ‘small personal item’ was twice the 40 cm limit.
All these years I’ve been paying for my javelin when I could have just done a Georgy and call it my “small personal item”
Someone has been enjoying themselves using “Georgina mcgrath” as a username and posting comments that aren’t from me. I’ve posted a couple of responses under this username.
Oh, RyanAir and musicians—a tale as old as time. Musicians are always complaining about RyanAir, with fresh articles popping up every few months, dripping with melodrama. And let’s not even get started on the gate staff—they’re just delightful, huh?
Now, let’s dissect your point here because it needs some work:
You claim, “This case easily fits on top of other luggage stowed in the overhead lockers, and does not take up any additional space.”
But really, what the heck does “additional space” even mean? Your bow case is a physical thing, so it’s obviously gonna take up some room. If it occupies space, how on earth does it not take up “additional space”? Should we be worried about your bow case creating a miniature black hole? Sounds dangerous.
Here’s the kicker: you expect your bow case to be stored without acknowledging that it actually occupies space. Sorry, but you can’t have it both ways. It’s a bit of a logical mess—are you saying these bow cases never take up extra room? If a herd of 60 bass players decides to book half a flight covering London to Plovdiv, each carrying their bow case, do those bow cases mysteriously fail to occupy space?
We get it, nobody likes RyanAir. Trust me, we’re on your side. But if you’re going to criticize AryanAir, make sure your arguments don’t collapse under the weight of contradiction. It’s not doing you any favors.
My ex-lover was a double bassist who had a wonderful wooden case for his bow. It had to be special made because it was German (although he was French). The stories he had about his travels with this bow could make a novel: when on tour, a pianist’s fingers flirt and swoon the keys of coquette pianos, while the double-bassist’s bow partakes in blind dates of promiscuous performance.
To be a double bass…
Bottom line: The airline needs to change its rules and make an exception for special items that are longer than 40 cm but narrow and/or flat and light. Such items fit into the overheads with ease and, naturally, the jet fuel consumption depends only on weight. From the physics laws perspective, it makes no sense that a person who weights 120 kg pays less for the ticket than a peson who weights 60-65 kg (sorry if I am wrong, Georgy, this is my estimate) but is accompanied by an almost weightless but long object.
Correct, all persons in possession of an extra long object, whether endowed by nature or augmented by any other means, should be welcome.
I refused to be discriminated against anymore; for my rights, I shall rise to the challenge, and stand firm.
As someone noted, two wrongs do not make a right. Even if Ms McGrath was technically wrong for exceeding the size limit the staff should be courteous to all. And should provide badge or ID numbers when asked. I had a late Eurostar connection from London to Brussels and missed my connection to Koln, the train I could next have gotten was also run by Eurostar but they would not let me on, and would not identify themselves. Naturally I complained, and Eurostar did refund 30% of the ticket price for being over an hour late. But the fine print in their regulations says they won’t report on what if any punishment or re-training they give to their staff. But it is important to provide as much detail as you can, even without a badge number or whatever. They can perfectly tell who is at fault if they know airport, check position, time, etc. Whether or not they care to do anything to their staff is questionable, alas.
You get what you (not ) pay for. Never flying Ryanair again. For many reasons
“Shaking and in tears?” Get hold of yourself. A bit much drama on your part. Take another airline, RyanAir are barbarians.
Ryanair is a bog standard carrier. A cheap charlie nobody should consider.
In the interest of transparency I think I should add that I had a small bag for my passport, phone etc.
I’ve said below I was only carrying my bow case – I was referring to any kind of large item that would take up space that needs to be paid for overhead. I don’t think that was clear and I don’t want to be misleading. My small bag and my bow case, as Chris points out, came to less than the total volume of the carry on allowance.
I’m sure some unkind keyboard warriors will accuse me of lying now, but that was not my intention at all, as anyone who knows me will attest.
Ms. Mcgrath, at this point, just stop posting replies, they don’t help your case at all, in fact, everytime you add something, it makes your case worse and you to appear that much more lost in la la land.
(Volume? What airline measures by volume? Your 80 cm case blocks 2 maximum size baggages that otherwise would fit into the bin!)
The bottom line is this, it’s very clear from your very first post: you knew you were breaking the rules, but you just felt entitled to a special exception just for bassists.
And it is also clear that the overwhelming majority of your fellow musicians, indeed fellow bassists, are not on your side, however they dislike Ryanair.
Some very harsh and unkind comments here. I know Georgina to be an exceptionally hard working and first rate musician and a thoroughly likeable human being. There is no excuse to be so rude and aggressive by Ryan Air staff and very disappointing to see comments verging on nasty here.
Wow, quite a long trawl through comments. Most, however, seem to be missing the essential point here that the true nature of the complaint, and one unfortuately unlikely to be of much interest to the regulator, is the alleged behaviour of the ground staff, rather that whether or not the bow case ought to have been charged for or allowed into the cabin.
Having toured with orchestras for many years, I know those needing to bring instruments (or bows) into the cabin generally clear it with the airline at booking or at check-in. Even then an airline policy can be subverted by recalcitrant gate staff.
I also think it must be clear to anyone travelling regularly, and even more so for professional purposes in their music career, that they are more likely to encounter issues or inconsistent treatment by budget airlines such as Ryanair than a national or premium carrier.
I was on a flight where a percussionist was refused permission to bring a triangle into the cabin (because it is metal and the open corner has sharp points!) – it was negotiated for the pilot to take it ito the cabin!