Airline abuses neurodiverse bassist
NewsWe have received this appeal from Valentina Scheldhofen Ciardelli, international performer and doublebass teacher at Trinity Laban Conservatoire of Music and Dance:
On August 28, 2024, I was on Flight FR585 from Pisa to Stansted with my double bass. As a frequent flyer with Ryanair, I’ve generally been satisfied with the service, but what happened at Pisa that day was deeply troubling. Despite Ryanair’s stated commitment to supporting passengers with neurodivergence (of which I am one) and recognizing the Sunflower Card, my experience was far from supportive:
I was forced to pay €32 for Priority Boarding, even though my bow could easily fit in the overhead locker. Initially, I was incorrectly told I needed to buy an additional seat for it. I have never paid for priority boarding for my bow case (which is very small) and have always been assisted with priority boarding due to my Sunflower Card without being charged extra. I felt extremely upset when the staff shouted at me without respect, and my boyfriend had to step in. Is this really how Ryanair’s Sunflower Card policy is implemented? It seems no one, neurotypical or otherwise, should be treated this way.
Additionally, I was informed that my double bass—which I had already paid €50 for as per Ryanair’s website—required an additional seat. It’s obvious that a flight case for a double bass won’t fit on an extra seat. The staff member at the counter then asked me to place the double bass on the regular luggage belt, where it didn’t fit. I suggested weighing it on the oversize belt (which I’ve used many times at Pisa), but she lied and told me there was no scale. Later, a colleague of hers said there was a scale, but it was broken. Eventually, they allowed me to weigh the double bass on a faulty scale, charging me €11 per kilo, for a total of €132. This was an unexpected and unfair cost, especially since I’ve flown with Ryanair before and never encountered this issue. If a bicycle can be up to 30kg, why should a musical instrument be treated differently?
Policy Discrepancies: Ryanair’s policies on musical instruments are confusing and inconsistent. While the weight limit for musical instruments is 20kg, bikes are allowed up to 30kg. My double bass, including its case, weighs around 30kg, making it impractical for many musicians to travel with such an allowance.
These issues highlight a broader problem with the current policy and how it is applied. Musical instruments are essential tools for musicians, and traveling with them should be managed with the same respect as other types of equipment.
Gianluca Marcianò happened to be at Pisa airport and witnessed the entire situation. He courageously stood up to defend my rights, for which I am deeply grateful.
As part of the musician community and as someone who is neurodivergent, I urge Ryanair to review and revise its policies to ensure fair treatment for musicians. Increasing the weight limit for musical instruments and applying the rules more consistently would significantly reduce the stress musicians face while traveling.
Although I work in the medical field, I have never come across the word « neurodivergent ». What does it exactly mean?
It’s one of the new gen-z/millenial buzzwords which make themselves feel special and DiFfErEnT
Also add “autistic”, ADHD and anxiety to the trendy-buzzword list.
Even Fox News posts relatively positive articles about autistic individuals. You must lie even further to the right of Fox News!
Oh dear someone “woke” up on the wrong side of the bed this morning
Including autism in your rant is just shameful.
I’m 76 and I think this us a nasty, unnecessary comment.
At first I thought she was talking about how she had one of their special “Snowflake Cards” and that they refused to honor it.
There seems no sign of intelligent life here…
Autism was first diagnosed back in the 80s so it’s not a buzzword. It is in fact a medically recognised condition.
The entire human history is full of “new” things… do you still drink your beer from the skull of your ennemies ?
“Neurodivergent is a nonmedical term that describes people whose brains develop or work differently for some reason. This means the person has different strengths and struggles from people whose brains develop or work more typically. While some people who are neurodivergent have medical conditions, it also happens to people where a medical condition or diagnosis hasn’t been identified.”
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/symptoms/23154-neurodivergent
More psychobabble. Maybe Tom cruise has a point.
I hope nobody in your family is neurodivergent. I work with several people who are. They don’t make demands, they’re just as good as anybody, but understanding what causes particular traits means they, and I don’t do what some people would, by making it they’re unsuitable for ‘normal’ jobs.
Remember when people with dyslexia were treated like dullards? Let’s not make the same mistake.
More bonehead than boner.
It means “There’s nothing wrong with me, but I need to be treated differently. So I’ll call myself something that insinuates autism spectrum disorder without actually saying it”
I, with aspergers, along with many others on the spectrum, use the Terms that actually apply. Not this vague descriptor.
I must say that, as a medical professional I have no issue with neuro divergent being a catch all term for people with an autistic spectrum disorder, ADHD or a range of neuro developmental problems such as specific language, learning and information processing issues.
Where I dislike the term is when people without these problems apply it to themselves, usually in relation to perfectly normal personality traits, or simply as a way of inhabiting the sick role, feeling special or obtaining advantage in some way.
This does a disservice to those people who really struggle navigating the world and society.
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/symptoms/23154-neurodivergent
Don’t get me started on that word. Yes, there are truly neurodivergent people, but more typically It is used by people who have a hard time coping with real life and wield it
Like a weapon to excuse their lack of coping skills. It’s a fabrication mostly. It also screams, “Look at me! I am creative and special and deserve special treatment!” Most people I’ve met who self-identify as neurodiverse believe in things like magnetic field therapy or similar woo woo. Oh, and almost always “women with trauma.” Again obviously there are exceptions to this but 75%+ is this.
Ooh I should listen to a certain anonymous Lucia commenting on a music blog instead of professionally trained psychiatrists and psychologists. Maybe I’ll ask my psychiatrist to give me opinions about how good the Dutilleux cello concerto is?
It can be a bit flaky and precious. And exploited.
Sorry.
So can anything. Dismissing an entire category of people based on one Daily Mail article you’ve read online (see what I did there? Not nice, is it?) is unpleasant behaviour. Let someone demonstrate that they are ‘faking it’ before you decide they must be.
Yes.
I am not a psychiatrist but I think his cello concerto is marvellous!
I feel it’s one of those pieces more preferred by music directors than the audience – Operabase lists 15 upcoming performances this season (many more than the Franck piano concertos) but the audience in this live recording could only offer lukewarm applause
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPfcrQYjjQo
There is no Franck piano concerto.
The Symphonic Variations and Les Djinns are for piano and orchestra, and I’m used to calling things like these (and the Debussy Fantaisie) piano concertos
Then, if I follow the rule, I should consider you as concertodivergent
And, i wd add, the “Symphonie sur un chant montagnard français”…..Vincent d’Indy… How to shoot yourself in the foot with an impossible title for a fine piece he shd’ve called “piano concerto!” (See also Paul Hindemith on this subject!).
But they aren´t….Same as the Paganini Rhapsody and Totentanz aren´t.
Yes, there is a Franck piano concerto: no2(!) in b-minor. No. 1 was destroyed as he wrote it while exiting from the womb and considered it unworthy. No.2 was wrut at the age of 13 and is not recognose as the Franck we all kno today. I was surprose myself when i heard it unannonced on the car radio and at first thunk Weber/Hummel on steroids, very brilliant writing but little music!
On the other hand, Les Djinns and the Variations Sympathiques are marvellous and t’would be luvly to hear them more often.
What is neurodiversity?
ChatGPT:
Neurodiversity refers to the concept that variations in the human brain and cognition, such as differences in learning, attention, mood, and social interaction, are natural and should be respected. It recognizes that conditions like autism, ADHD, dyslexia, and others are part of the diversity of human experience, rather than being solely viewed as medical deficits or disorders.
The neurodiversity movement advocates for understanding and acceptance of these differences, promoting inclusion and challenging the idea that there is a single “normal” way of thinking or behaving. It emphasizes the strengths and unique perspectives that neurodivergent individuals bring to society.
If it’s a “movement,” red flags should be flying. And I daresay a lot of people are “self-identifying” — a pseudo-medical practice that ought to be outlawed and certainly ignored — as neurodivergent because it gives them a trendy club to belong to, and one that excuses inability to focus as well.
Autism ought not to be included in the various rants about what’s wrong with the whole neurodivergence “movement.”
It is possible to distinguish between neurodivergence as a state of existence or cognition, and a movement that encourages social tolerance of, and adaptation to, neurodivergence (just as the neurodivergence are expected to adapt to their social environment — it takes patience on both sides).
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/what-is-neurodiversity-202111232645
Spot on.
You really think movements are a red flag in and of themselves? Without movements women won’t be allowed to vote!
Fighting for a cause is a legitimate movement.
But medically? Is there a cancer “movement”? Most people seek to be healthy.
Let’s face it, mental health has become a seriously over-used complaint in recent years — everyone who has a problem or a setback or who finds one thing or another difficult is suddenly dealing with “mental health issues.” It IS trendy.
My objection is that it dilutes, at the very least, response to serious, real mental health issues. Doctors’ time is wasted, and personal coping problems are exaggerated into a disease classification.
Some of this may be down to the raising of children without the old methods of discipline and rules, and with the notion that the world revolves around them and everyone is a winner and all that pap. Once out in the real world — starting in primary school but well developed by secondary and later — these people are unfitted for any circumstance that means their being crossed.
Ms. Ciardelli may or may not be on the autism “spectrum” (another evocative word that has found favour in recent years). I am not sure how rigorously distribution of these Sunflower cards is applied. But she mentions neurodivergence and Sunflower cards half a dozen times in another in the long list of legitimate complaints about Ryanair’s musical instrument policies and practices.
It may be a useful word in recognising those whose “brains work differently.” (It was coined by a sociologist, not a doctor and has no medical existence). But if it has become a “movement,” it is because it sounds cool.
Most people with real mental illnesses do not go about bragging about it. Thanks to some good work in recent years they no longer have to be ashamed or embarrassed about mental health problems, but that has spilled over into the victimology set and far too many people are using “mental illness” — a very real problem for a lot of people — to characterise everything from their own laziness to narcissism..
Exactly. Severe autism is a real and debilitating condition. However, most of today’s mild-to-moderate autism cases would have been attributed to “different personalities” a few decades ago. The primary feature of this diagnosis relates to poor social skills, the lack of which tends to create individual thinkers rather than socially connected groupthinkers. With only mild relaxation of diagnostic criteria, most American conservatives will become “diagnosable”.
More importantly, (and admittedly with a tinge of paranoia), labeling people with a mental condition for thinking individually is well within the expected behavior of those who have transformed our education system into indoctrination camps.
And here’s where the paranoia gets thick as molasses: Mental diagnosis? Sorry, no gun for you.
guest1848
According to the DSM-5, a necessary criterion for diagnosing ASD is “Symptoms cause clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of current functioning.” This applies to type 1 autism, colloquially known as low support needs or LSN autism. Additionally, autism is a neurodevelopmental condition, not mental condition, although I’ll admit that correction is a bit pedantic. I understand your point though, and very much agree that people with any type of autism shouldn’t be treated with less respect, and shouldn’t be labeled as mentally ill or having a mental condition. I don’t agree that people with LSN autism should be considered non-autistic or non-disabled, because they should still have clinically significant impairment.
Yes there is a cancer ‘movement’. I’m old enough to remember when having cancer was treated as something to be secretive about, when women with breast cancer were pitied at best and whispered about, when male cancers weren’t taken seriously.
The cancer movement sought – and still seeks – to remove the stigma associated with it. As a result what was inevitably a death sentence has become increasingly survivable.
That you are blissfully unaware of this shows how useful its work was, but also how important it is not to condemn newly recognised conditions as ‘fads’.
I have lived with chronic depression for thirty years – I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy. But I am so grateful I didn’t live twenty years earlier when it was viewed the same way some people on this discussion seem to view neurodivergence.
You should all be ashamed of yourselves. How can people who claim to love classical music be so eager to show an utter lack of empathy for fellow human beings?
I’m not the least bit lacking in empathy for anyone who has a genuine problem. But I am getting tired of people who are clearly just fed up with some aspect or other of their lives trying to attribute it to “mental health issues,” and clogging up an overloaded medical system to feed their egos.
In which country. In the UK women could always vote. So long as they were land owners or business owners, just like men.
Without “movements” you wouldn’t have been lied to and believed it.
I’m amazed how for some people, reality can be whatever they want
Define “always.”
Grievance collector or attention seeker, depending on the context.
Grievance collector or attention seeker. It all depends on the context.
“Neurodivergent” refers to a person who is generally been satisfied with Ryanair’s service.
I hav always been satisfo with Ruinair’s service cos it flies from near me to many places i want to go, unserved by major airlines. I don’t want to eat, pee, crap or buy any of their stuff on the flite. 1½hours is ok even if the seat is less comfartable & narrow/restruct, etc… Unlike BrishitAirways they don’t lose baggage and are less strike-prone. Only gripe: the destinations: Frankfart/Hahn… may as well be in mid NorthSea for all its “proximité” to Frankfart! Udder examples are avail a bull.
Unfartunately, i’m not neurodivrse, or even very talented, so do not kwalify for a Snowflake Card. I do suufre a mlid csae fo dylsexier….
I hope you’re joking. If so it’s not funny. If you’re not, it’s disturbing.
The headline should read “neurodivergent” not “neurodiverse,” following the usage of Ms Ciardelli herself. (Human mental experience is diverse, the person diverging from the norm is divergent, not diverse.).
I am a musician and a synaesthete…apparently that means I am also neurodivergent. Good to know!
And the idea that flying with a bass is EVER going to be straightforward, cheap or easy is absurd…
Curious about the thumbs down…have you ever tried flying with a bass? Not the most amount of fun I’ve ever had whenever I’ve done it!
Wouldn’t that turn anyone neurodivergent in time?!
Certainly would and probably has!
Neurodiverse? What is this gobbledygook?
Is learning new concepts always this troubling for you?
You swallow it? Bravo.
Exactly what’s the concept? what are its contours? how is divergence different than the norm?
What’s the norm?
“What is the norm?” is actually one of the very interesting philosophical questions that the concept of Neurodiversity raises.
I’m sorry you weren’t raised with kindness. However, your generation will be the last that responds this way to anything that’s a little different to what you view as “normal.” Good.
Shame on Ryanair! Travelling with a double bass is difficult enough at the best of times. There is absolutely no need for additional and totally unnecessary obstacles to be inflicted.
The Sunflower Card idea is less than 10 years old, and a good idea to make people aware of less visible disabilities, but companies are slow to adopt it, or even know what it is, which isnt surprising. Hopefully her advocacy will help companies get their act together more rapidly because what’s good for neurodivergent people also happens to be good for all other people too. Patience, understanding, perhaps empathy etc. And like she said, even if she didn’t have a neurodivergency, they yelled at her and tried to price gouge her. people shouldn’t be treating others that way, especially employees to a customer.
I thought that every musician is neurodiverse.
It started with Beethoven. Then it spread through the musical community.
It reached it apotheosis with Xenakis, Boulex and Stockhausen. After that, it slowly sank to a more bearable level.
I was once marched off the tarmac by 2 security guards (who were gratifying sympathetic) when Ryanair suddenly changed their rules about bow-cases. After that, I sewed a “poacher’s pocket” inside a long rain-coat and stowed the bow away in there. After THAT, I stopped flying for the sake of the planet and so that I could take my bass with me, safely. Honestly, if you’re travelling around Europe and the UK, use the ferry and trains. It’s better for the bass, the planet AND the player.
Maybe someone who is ill-prepared to deal with the stress of modern air travel should reconsider what engagements they accept. The airlines treat everybody the same, regardless of their neuron-arrangement. Additionally, anyone who has had a good experience on Ryanair up until this incident was statistically a billion times luckier than most of their customers. This was a confrontation which one would have expected to have already occurred many times before.
Maybe people who experience the world differently should do you a favour and stay at home out of the way like they used to?
Sometimes they re extremely rude on ryanair and seems like they are seeking money at the gate isn’t just the neuro thing,it’s the rudeness from the staff that shouldn’t be allowed, aswell the fact that you can t get a taxi because you play the double bass aswell she had the sunflower card but they still wanted her to pay for the priority,and I believe that the scale at the gate was a rigged scale lol
Flying with a musical instrument on Ryanair is about as good a definition of neural divergence as you will get.
Sometimes ryanair staff it’s extremely rude and seems like they try to make you pay as much as possible,last time I was travelling from London with the same small bag I always used on ryanair
But for the lady at the gate was too big , I told her I ve been travelling always with the same one on ryanair until the previous month so she went to get that tool used to check the length of the bag and (never happened before) it couldn’t get inside the tool completely, the bag was just 1 centimetre larger maybe even less , I couldn’t believe it as always was fitting into the tool perfectly and often I wasn’t asked to check as the bag was clearly a small one ,she asked me 50£ to bring the bag on the airplane which I didn’t have it ,most shocking thing was that she was extremely rude and upset, ppl around me couldn’t believe it either than she forced me to leave the bag there and I had to walk from the gate to the airplane with all my stuff in my hands plus I had to leave items inside the bag as I couldn’t keep it in my arms and hands ,she didn’t give me even a plastic bag or anything and I had to run as everyone left the gate to get into the airplane so I was afraid to be left behind and lose the flight, after on the plane all the ppl came to me saying that they couldn’t believe what that lady did ,the fact that I had to run with my things (clothes books etc) in my arms but especially the redness and the hate that she showed against me for no reason at all. As well I left some important medicines inside the pocket of the bag ,and it’s been very difficult to get it in the other country where I was travelling (Italy) aswell I did everything to get back my bag but that is not been possible. Absurd
Was it really *hate* she showed? The word is getting to be used for every kind of behaviour that isn’t supportive or nice.
Neurodivergent? Like you have anxiety from stressful situations? Everyone is neurodivergent. Everyone that flies regularly has problems like that. smdh
The word “neurodivergent” refers to people with a mind that differs from the norm. By definition, not everyone is neurodivergent. Someone with, for example, an anxiety disorder, would be considered neurodivergent and deserves accommodations. It’s nearly impossible to get such accommodations without a formal diagnosis, and almost impossible to get a formal diagnosis without actually having such a disorder.
—Young, neurodivergent, and fed up
Your problem was real and was echoed recently by a woman with a violin, on the same airline. Bit I don’t need to hear about your supposed nuerodivergence. Leave the fad sympathy signals out.
The level of dumbness of some right wing self appointed”scientists” in the comments is mind boggling.
There is no necessary connection between being right-wing and being sceptical about the introduction of quasi-medical concepts. Left-wing people can be sceptical about them, too.
That sounds like a highly stressful experience, in what is often already a stressful enough situation for most people, of taking a flight at a busy airport. Inconsistent rules & inconsistent application of them should never happen. Being shouted at by staff is an absolute no-no. No company should have such people in public facing roles.
The difference between a 30kg bike & a 30kg bass is the volume of the case & as a rule, a bike can always go in the hold & survive bad treatment. A double bass is far more vulnerable. I would worry if it were mine & in the hold, so I would expect it to cost quite a lot more to fly, particularly if it is taking up cabin space. If I take a guitar it either has to be small enough to fit in a locker or it takes up a seat, which is expensive. The alternative is to rent an instrument at the destination, although that can also be a hit & miss affair
Did she get it resolved? What was Ryanair’s response to it all?
Anyone got answers to these real questions rather than being bogged down on a single word?