‘Zionists can’t make jazz’
News… One of several racist slogans smeared on an Israeli-owned jazz club in New York which was attacked by racists with red paint.
Report here.
pictured: Club owner Omer Avital
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Sadly mistaken and misguided by brainwashed Palestinians who need the benefit of a balanced education, some of the greatest of the artform including: Harold Arlen, Benny Goodman, Stan Getz, Artie Shaw, Herbie Mann, Buddy Rich, Lee Konitz, John Zorn, Herb Alpert, Helen Shapiro, Charlie Spivak, Mel Torme, Kenny G and Amy Winehouse among the many were Jews. Now the list of Palestinians in jazz is rather small, most are still alive and under 50 and their contributions tpo the art form in comparison are minor.
“Zionists” does not mean “Jews” because not all Jews are Zionists and I daresay there are Christian sects who think the ancient kingdom of Israel needs to be established before the Messiah finally arrives again.
Paul, With the exception of a few kooky Chassids and some inane youngsters who have not been given a proper balanced Middle East history education devoid of Palestinian propaganda. Most Jewish believe in a Jewish state, if that’s wghat you call Zionism, sure. However, the Zionist movement was formed in 1896/97 by a Richard Wagner opera loving Jew named Theodor Herzl. The movements mission was to form a Jewish State with Jerusalem as it’s capitol. That finally occured in 1948, three years after the end of the second world war and the atrocities committed by the Nazi’s and other European governments who joined in, or tacitly approved. The formation of the State of Israel, which occured when the British signed the land over to the Jews and Harry Truman recognized the state. Keep in mind Paul, this historically was Jewish land and the “Palestinians” at this point were the usurpers left over from history. They have become useful pawns over the years for all of the other Middle Eastern states. They are looked upon as chattel by Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Qtar etc. etc. They don’t want them in their lands. Do you ever hear Iran offering to resettle them in Iran? Yet, they are willing to send them bomb making materials and firearms, as well as military planning to do really horrific things to Israel. Call Iran on the carpet with all of their misdeeds and they shrug their shoulders and say, “who me?”.
So back to your misuse of the word Zionist and Zionism. You will be hard pressed to find any group other than the ridiculously overtly religious and their numbers are few and the uneducated who do not beleive Israel has a right to exist. The Zionist movement was effectively over in 1948 when the State of Israel was founded, that was it’s mission. Now there are Jews who fight every day against the bigotry, and hatred you have been suckered into with your statement that not all Jews are Zionists. That’s an absurd statement made by people who are frenkly uneducated, antisemitic and have bought into the propaganda put out by operations like Hamas, Hezbollah, the KKK, the John Birch Society, etc, etc. Perhaps you should enroll in a Middle Eastern history class at a balanced institution of higher learning.
I’m only too sorry I felt like I had to write this message on a board of generally well educated people, but your comment was a bridge too far.
So one small true point is a bridge too far…
“Everyone thinks I am very good-looking, apart from a few obvious nutcases.”
Compare that to your insistence that those who think differently from you are “a few kooky Chassids and some inane youngsters who have not been given a proper balanced Middle East history education devoid of Palestinian propaganda.”
My understanding, which I believe I share with many, is that Zionism is more than just “believing in a Jewish state”, and that being Jewish is not synonymous with being Zionist.
Jewish views on Zionism appear to be broad and varied. It certainly doesn’t seem that one size fits all.
As you’ve mentioned, ultra Orthodox Jews hold that a Jewish state should not be established until the coming of the Messiah.
Jews who are critical of Israel’s govt. do not identify as Zionists. Those concerned with Israel’s human rights violations may even call themselves “anti-Zionists”.
Jews living outside of Israel may prioritize their issues & identities in their home countries above those of Israel & be critical of the concept of a nation state based on ethnicity or religion.
These are just a few of the differences between Jewish and being Zionist that I am aware of.
Kenny G tends to subvert your entire thesis. Anyway, not sure all or any of them were Zionists.
It’s not that Jews can’t play jazz, it’s that by virtue of their whiteness, they enjoyed privileges and access and opportunities that equally and more talented Black jazz players did not have, especially during Jim Crow, and certainly prior to the 1960s in terms of fame and popularity and reach as fueled by Hollywood and record deals, which was disproportionate to their talent or the same talent of a Black musician.
Palestinian jazz players are few, but you are comparing them to Americans in a golden age of American economy and wealth and power. It’s easy to thrive in the arts when your belly is full and you don’t have to fight to get drinking water in a sliver of land under apartheid.
White americans enslaved black people. It’s easy to forget and feel whitewashed. Americans they still vote big for trump, not exactly a black people lover.So every American is an oppressor. Everyone who loves his country is a facist or a racist? Zionism is the answer to the need to have a safe place to exist as jews, after centuries of oppression in Europe that ended with the Holocaust and the expulsion of jewish people from Arab countries. We have a really bad government, but we love our country. Loving your country is not to be against your Palestinian neighbor. Go educate yourself. Pay a visit and see by yourself, instead of writing crap. Music is universal. Jazz is love. Try this: go listen to yoni kretch snd tell me how is he less good than any other jazz player. But, hey, you are a racist hiding behind gen Z stupidity saying “Zionism” like it’s a Marvel movie. Fy
What bullshit is the “Jews are privileged because they are White” statement. It is no different than the “Asians do well in the United States because they’ve adopted White supremacist attitudes” that we’ve heard from Black school officials. Both groups have faced discrimination and have risen above it.
I wonder whether your, blatantly kafkian, comments on Jews, their whiteness, privilege, and apartheid are informed by the neo-liberal gobbledegook that you glean from mainstream media or you have gulped this ‘wealth of wisdom’ directly from the goblet of Hamas education in Gaza.
For the last 2000 years Jews have “enjoyed” some “privileges” indeed…
Vadis, Clearly, you are not an anti-Semite. 🙂 You are just against Zionists. 🙂 It is just that in one sentence, you have managed to make two racist remarks about the Jews. First — that they enjoyed privileges without having as much talent as the Black jazz players. Who, in your opinion, were more talented than the Jews. this is making a negative statement about skills of an entire group of people based on their race/nationality/color of their skin. Second – that fame and popularity, accorded to Jews prior to 1960s, were disproportionate to their talents. Welcome into the Nazi club — these are basically some of the main ideas which predate the Final Solution. The saddest part is that you don’t seem to understand how racist this sounds. Or it doesn’t matter to you, as long as such bs doesn’t affect non-white people. Which doesn’t make you any less of a racist.
Same goes for classical music.
You consider Amy Winehouse to be a jazz singer?
This must come as a shock to Mezz Mezzrow, Benny Goodman and Willie The Lion Smith.
Willie ‘The Lion’ Smith was Jewish? Who knew?
It amazes me how Hamas’s evil manages to hide itself inside of the Palestinian plight not only in real life but in words and ideas. I cannot think of one single Israeli against the Palestinian people. Hamas is the manipulator of minds, shielding itself with and within Palestine.
The only way to ‘Free Palestine’ is to annihilate Hamas.
Gerry, unfortunately you are wasting your time. Unlike the thirties , this time most of the liberal elites side with the Nazis.
Strange, because they’ve been doing that for more than 100 years.
Being from Israel or even being Jewish doesn’t mean one is Zionist.
Mr. Avital is actually an Arab Israeli. Born in Israel, his parents were from Morocco & Yemen. Considering that his career encompasses the study & performance of traditional Arab music & well as that of Israel, it seems pretty unlikely that he’s Zionist, or even Jewish, for that matter. 26 percent of Israeli citizens are not Jewish.
I’m sure that this headline was great for his club’s business, though. . .
Mr. Avital is Jewish, that’s why his parents met in Israel although orignating 2000 km apart. He is alao “Zionist” in the sense almost al Israeli Jews are – he holds Israeli nationality as naturaly as a man born in Paris is French.
How peculiar to link a political belief with an unrelated artistic ability. Isn’t that like saying Socialists can’t play Bach ? Scottish independents can’t paint in oils ? Putin supporters can’t play piano ? Hmmm….
Like most nonsense, it says more about the speaker than the subject.