Remember when CBSO was relevant?
OrchestrasHere’s what Emma Stenning is doing with her working day.
Lecturing fellow-flaks on where her organisation went wrong.
Comments
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We all know by now her priorities are anything but music.
Does her orchestra know she thinks they are irrelevant?
Sometimes I think Emma simply hates us
Hi can you take this down immediately?
This was a private event for museum administrators as part of the AIM Conference.
If you do not pay the ticket price (early bird price: £260+VAT with bursaries available) then you should not see this.
Why, what’s the big secret? This sounds like something that should be reported.
“Comms” doesn’t know about the Streisand Effect . . .
I think they are about to discover a real time example of, how do the youngsters put it these days?-“Fuck around and find out”.
£260+VAT for this drivel?
Our money shouldn’t be p*ssed away on this
Absolute rubbish request!!
Thank goodness this out of control CEO behaviour IS reported on to show the world what a incompetent and incapable CEO some idiots on the CBSO board have appointed.
It’s about time both they and their misjudged CEO resign in shame before they decimate this fine orchestra any further!
Very ironic that this was caught by the phone cameras she advocates.
Could everyone there also drink their way through it? Like she does when she watches her orchestra perform?
Oh dear NL – for this you will have to report to the Head’s office and receive an official ban from all their concerts!
…but it proves they are reading SD!
Ah a clique?
Herein lies the problem- you speak to people like you and not the existing and potential audience.
Get out there and start learning what is happening in the world. And while youre at it did you pay for the tickets out of your own pocket or were they bought for you by your organisation ?
Why ? Clearly someone there has leaked it, and I presume no one at the event was asked to sign any non-disclosure…… ?
Snotty
Presumably you are joking?
Emma, if you don’t believe in the wonderful musicianship of the CBSO’s players, then you should resign.
She’s trying to create the classical music version of LIV golf (motto: golf but LOUD).
Are you thinking differently yet CBSO? Emma knows best.
Here she tells her audience how she is changing the thinking at the CBSO.
She is delusional.
https://aim-museums.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/AIM-2024-Delegate-Handbook-low-res.pdf
At least the orchestra holds up real standards: well worth my train journeys and hotel night for Thursday’s concert; the most joyous CARNIVAL Ov I have heard (joy can happen this season even if not declared relevant by ES until next!). Great Barber cello concerto from its true champion Ms Weilerstein and a fine Rachmaninov 3 than John Wilson’s two seasons ago (I think) from Kevin John Edusei with exceptional handling of the textures, perfect tempi and balances and the exposition repeat. What can be more relevant than great music from a great orchestra? Money for hopeless senior mangers should go to the players. Great to see David Powell in the cellos: I assume he joined around 1980 despite his law degree from Oxford and when the orchestra was fully valued I expect his modest salary was enough given the ‘relevance’ of great concerts.
I have only booked for two concerts next season as I do not trust ES to leave well alone….
First the CBSO was boring, so phones and drinks were needed to improve the concert quality.
Then the CBSO was racist and needed to adopt an ‘anti-racist approach to work’.
Now the CBSO is ‘irrelevant’.
Thanks Emma for your support.
Good to know she spends her time here while ignoring the feedback she gets from CBSO supporters.
‘Lecturing fellow-flaks on where her organisation went wrong.’
I guess that means she will be talking about the CBSO since she became CEO just over a year ago. This will be a very long lecture indeed.
Looks like a do for investment bankers.
The CBSO group of enterprises.
Musically, the orchestra is in terrific shape – I agree with pjl about the Rachmaninov concert, and there have been several other really excellent ones this season. It’s amazing that it could enter anyone’s mind, let alone that of its boss, that the CBSO has ever been remotely irrelevant to its city or the wider musical world – least of all now! I intend to keep going as regularly as before, in the hope that the fall-out of this wholly disastrous administrative appointment does not discourage the players or indeed motivate several to leave for more civilized pastures elsewhere. Please don’t give up on the players and their wonderful conductor because of idiocies and incompetencies over which they have no control…
Quite so, but you mention ‘idiocies and incompetencies over which they have no control…’ That’s what is most worrying. Why should the marvellous orchestra have to tolerate that? More worrying, what hopes are there for its future if it is managed by a solitary, dictatorial megalomaniac – a bit like Napoleon leading his forces into Russia.
Surely this organisation has a Board of Management. Surely they are aware of all that’s happening – and of all these comments on Slipped Disc, some of which are from CBSO subscribers. Surely they could hold an emergency meeting and suspend her, pending a full enquiry – or are they all her supine acolytes who support her no matter what? As suggested elsewhere on SD, surely they could generate an online petition to censure her. The one that was set up to rescind Paula Vennells’s CBE attracted 1.2 million signatories.
I see that she is now threatening revenge on those subscribers who criticise her. I think we need a nickname for her and I propose ‘East Ham’ because she’s only slightly short of Barking. She has a great future behind her.
“supine acolytes” – what a marvellous turn of phrase.
“Supine acolytes”? They are literally the people who hired her. They knew what they wanted and they got exactly that.
For those of us who don’t live in the UK, and are not focused on local news, this is getting very confusing. Until a couple years ago, we were saturated with positive coverage about Mirga. Even concert under Mirga was supposed to be an event. Even her numerous cancelations were a cause for celebration. Meantime, we hear nothing about Mira’s successor. Now I see a flood of negative coverage. What is going on? A summary would be appreciated.
CBSO chose a new CEO with no musical experience who is alienating existing subscribers. See the comments to yesterday’s story
You hear nothing, because he is a man, which is too common for any type of celebration, event, or even worth some news these days. Which is a pity, because Kazuki is a very fine conductor and musician.
On the plus side: Kazuki Yamada is a marvellous appointment – musically an upgrade on Mirga (in my view), personally lovable and a huge favourite with both audience and (it seems) players. The orchestra itself has also never played better in the 40+ years I’ve been hearing them regularly – thanks also not least to some obviously brilliant appointments of new(ish) leader, principal clarinet, principal bassoon, principal harp, etc..
The down side consists exclusively of the CEO – who, it now seems, should never have been let near even a shortlist for the post, let alone being regarded as appointable. How far can one person destroy what many other people have built and are still nurturing? That’s the question from now on, and I wish to goodness we didn’t have to ask it…
Petros,
I will try to sum up my view briefly, but please accept that it is oversimplified and incomplete.
The CBSO has been a first class orchestra for many decades, including the Sir Simon Rattle and Andris Nelsons years.
Mirga was fine during her tenure (included the Covid 19 time) but didn’t develop the orchestra further – so status quo.
Kazuki Yamada is the new Music Director. He is talented, popular and his enthusiasm is infectious so good reason to feel positive.
The financial support from the city has reduced steadily over these years and will cease altogether soon.
Emma Stenning, the new CEO has little previous music experience but is determined to make an impact to change the profile and increase income.
She announced a new plan (some content seems misguided or addresses problems that don’t exist). There was no consultation with supporters and she didn’t appear to be prepared to listen. Her intentions may be worthy but she has upset many of the loyal CBSO members and audience.
Many thanks, Derek, Cornishman, Achim and Answer, for the informative responses.
Yours is a very good question, Petros.
Mirga’s successor, Kazuki Yamada, has a wonderful relationship with the orchestra and choruses and has already achieved outstanding performances. The CBSO has an assured future with this new partnership.
After the tenure of Stephen Maddock as CEO finished after 24 successful years, the Board decided to appoint a successor who might address the UK problem of diminishing and ageing audiences. Rather than appoint someone from within the claustrophobic world of ‘classical’ music, they appointed someone with a broader experience of the arts who might suggest more innovation solutions to the (eventually terminal) problem of diminishing audiences.
Perhaps predictably, some of the modest changes that have been tried have provoked a backlash from the purists and a ‘pile on’ from many whom I suspect have remained on their keyboard rather than actually attend a concert.
Remarkably, none that I have read seem to offer a solution other than to carry on with the losing formula.
If you are able to attend a concert this season, I can assure you that you will find the orchestra continuing to play at their outstanding best but the range of concerts on offer will be considerably broader and I hope, for the sake of this world-class organisation, that you will also see a wider demographic and larger numbers in the audience.
I would love to attend, Andy, but the literal doubling of the prices in the Grand Tier ( the only area I can afford, as a Pensioner with a 100 mile round trip, ) has meant that I can no longer attend my favourite venue.
I protested to Stenning about this but – after a two month wait – she replied with a “price rise not my fault” response.
“Rather than appoint someone from within the claustrophobic world of ‘classical’ music, they appointed someone with a broader experience of the arts”. Believe me – the board’s headhunters approached numerous candidates in “the claustrophobic world of ‘classical’ music” and not one of them wanted the job. Possibly because following a CEO who’s been there for 24 years into an organisation about to face major funding cuts is a poison chalice (as indeed we have seen from the increasingly unhinged campaign against her on this site). Possibly only someone with very little knowledge of the sector would have been willing to take the role.
This is the infamous AIM Conference, Emma gave the flagship speech today. On the schedule:
Setting up a new museum through, with and for the queer community
Identifying and engaging your museum’s community
Telling migration stories
Community Stories: Using Intangible Cultural Heritage to further expression, belonging, and engagement
Emma Stenning’s Rediscovering relevance
Museum advocacy in times of change
Creating a menopause support framework
Decolonisation and practice – co-curating and developing lasting relationships with diaspora and descendant communities
Birmingham Botanical Gardens – from exclusive to inclusive
Arts Admin, please tell us that this is a brilliant joke – it’s too near the truth to be funny.
How much do you think she was paid?
According to their financial statements, the previous CEO was paid between £100,000 and £110,000 per year.
Does anyone know what Stenning negotiated?
Too much!
Why does she think it’s acceptable to call CBSO musicians irrelevant?
She needs to go
She is irrelevant to the.CBSO
How do you know that she did? Were you at the lecture?
Did you bother to check the intinerary, which is available online?
“Emma shares some of her
experiences of leading one of the world’s greatest
orchestras, and of pushing it to think differently
about how to matter to the world today.”
Genuinely interested to know what the (personal?) vendetta is here. There are plenty of orchestra CEOs doing good and bad work across the UK (and the world) who don’t get any of the bile attracted to Emma Stenning.
I have no connection to the CBSO or Stenning, but the ‘initiatives’ brought out this season (in inverted commas because whilst they have caused consternation, and have been perhaps ill-communicated, they are hardly innovative in the grand scheme of… anything), have received such a horrific set of responses both from NL and the commenters that it’s verging on harassment (see also Chi-chi Nwanoku and Yuja Wang…)
If you don’t think that every orchestra CEO gives these kind of presentations and spends a good deal of their time and seminars and conferences, then you don’t know how things work at all. Rail against that if you like, but then you should be critical of everyone, not semi-stalking an individual as if she’s some sort of mastermind criminal suspect.
Get a hobby!
Nothing personal: never met her.
Is this because they’ve stopped giving you free tickets to performances?
Can you give one other orchestra right now where a new CEO has caused this level of upset?
The LSO with its new fangled retirement issues. Ageism. Discrimination. Alienation. The players are fighting.
Certainly she has upset some people. The incessant and repetitive posts, often exaggerated and sometimes simply untrue, on social media such as this suggest an organized campaign of harassment.
And how much of that upset has been caused by the way things have been reported here?
The late lamented London Chamber Orchestra
Read the history of the CBSO. In particular, look up how Appleby Matthews and Arthur Baker left their respective roles.
Ms. Stenning will not appreciate you referring to her uniquely bold, relevance-seeking, joy-filled initiatives “hardly innovative.”
Come on – for a start, you should look at the allegations of bullying concerning Chi-Chi, and listen to musicians about their experiences.
From what I know, I am glad for what Norman has written.
Brilliant comment! Totally agree
No…
Emma ‘black people need phones so they don’t get bored’ Stenning
To be fair, I think the phones are for young people, and they do seem incapable of going 5 minutes without them. To which I say who needs them. Musicians play for people who are there to listen to music.
Plenty of young people at yesterday’s concert without phones and fully engaged with the fabulous playing.
…so it’s like Radio 3 – top prority is bums on seats regardless of whose bums they are.
Unbelievable. This is where our money is going, folks. These people take themselves very seriously. Absurd. Let’s vote them out. But I warn you – she’s impossibly stubborn and arrogant and she is damaging the orchestra badly. We need a coordinated effort. Don’t know how yet…
Yes at every stage she digs in even harder
Go to the board members individually, I already have!!!
I’ve encountered her type before: the more we complain, the more she will think she’s right – because we are misogynistic, white, reactionary, provincial, limited, old die-hards. So we must all be eradicated. I predicted all this after the Eroica-travesty last winter. Arrogant and mulish. God knows how much she and people like her are paid – and for what? Menopause strategies? God help us all.
Be careful if she gets thrown out – you have described every pre-requisite for a Prime Minister. Best keep her where she is as she will cause less damage!
The outrageous title of this presentation is so monumentally insulting to everyone who has made the CBSO what it is today; Mirga, Andris Nelsons, Sakari Oramo, Simon Rattle, the players, the staff and the former CEO Stephen Maddock, trustees past and present, and subscribers and donors who have followed it loyaly for decades…
Relevance was never lost. Who does the woman think she is?
She thinks she’s better than everyone else. As simple as that.
Something between Turandot and Pol Pot?
Why do you think the lecture was about the CBSO? Were you there?
Did you bother to check the intinerary, which is available online?
“Emma shares some of her
experiences of leading one of the world’s greatest
orchestras, and of pushing it to think differently
about how to matter to the world today.”
A major problem is that the chairman of the board of trustees,Lord Tony Hall of Birkenhead is supportive of what she is doing.
I know this because I have recently written to him & his reply clearly indicated to me that he is part of the problem .He tried to pass off the incident when Ian Bostridge stopped the concert. He put it down to audience members trying to read the programme notes on their mobile phones.
ES may have done a very good job at Bristol Old Vic but the CBSO is not a theatres
“put it down to audience members trying to read the programme notes on their mobile phones” – this was precisely the excuse Stenning used, almost word for word.
Stenning reports to Lord Hall and it is natural he will take her word at face value, at least at first. No board member would expect a CEO to act as she is.
If many people write to Lord Hall and all other board members, they might see the real situation on the ground and investigate.
I agree: the man is part of the problem. I was standing near to him at the new season launch and his manner was defensive and arrogant when he heard the slightest criticisms of anything. We will get no joy from him. The more we criticise the more he and Stenning will think they are right.
Please keep up this reporting, musicians in Birmingham need support now more than ever!
Perhaps there is a perceived loss of relevance since Brexit and the CBSO has a harder time touring across Euroland.
You don’t know much about the CBSO’s touring schedule, do you?
Apparently her speech has indeed been taken down, before I could watch it. There is, I think, a parallel between her, and Henry Timms, outgoing president (i.e. executive) of New York’s Lincoln Center, whose legacy, beyond whatever fund-raising he was able to accomplish, will be the abolition of Mostly Mozart and Great Performers, i.e. nearly the entirety of Lincoln Center’s classical music offerings outside its resident companies (Met, Philharmonic, Chamber Music Society, Juilliard). By his own admission, Timms is more interested in outreach, revamping of so-called power relationships, (he has authored a book about this) and inclusion, than in the nuts and bolts of running an arts institution. Fortunately, his departure has been announced after a tenure of only five years. He is leaving to join The Brunswick Group, a global public relations firm. New Yorkers should rejoice.
Memories of Zhdanov.
I just read the CBSO’s draft vision statement, see link below. It was launched by Emma Stenning on 30 November 2023 with the stated intention that the final version will be released 18 months later. By then (in Emma’s words) it will have been “tested, enriched, and improved by your advice, and all of our experience”.
On the topic of concert etiquette, the statement proposes a new “CBSO welcome” including
<>
I fear that the fourth bullet, in its current form, is incompatible with the fifth.
By the way, the draft vision statement also reassures us that “We will do everything we can to remember that artists and audiences are people…”.
https://cbso.co.uk/index.php/actions/tools/tools/download-file?id=178818
Unfortunately a quotation was removed from my previous comment. Here it is:
The removal of any perceived “rules” of a traditional concert, clearly inviting audiences to:
• Bring drinks into the auditorium.
• Clap whenever they like.
• Wear whatever makes them feel comfortable.
• Take photos or short snippets of film (and to share them with us).
• Be mindful of everyone’s experience.
‘Being mindful of everyone’s experience’???? So when you do anything like these things, be mindful of the irritation that most of the audience? And what is the ‘mindful’ response to that. Say this mantra 1000 times: Up Yours.
Being mindful of everyone’s experience is compatible with seeking to destroy everyone’s experience. Mindfulness doesn’t necessarily work in a nice way.
Could somebody who actually attended the lecture please summarise it for SD readers?The title is far too general to assume it refers specifically to the CBSO, as most commenters assume.
Sure!
Teaser from the conference official website:
“Emma shares some of her experiences of leading one of the world’s greatest orchestras, and of pushing it to think differently about how to matter to the world today.”
Fair enough. Very bad wording – leaders should lead, not push! But it does no harm every so often to take note of changing circumstances and rethink approaches. It does look as though Ms Stenning was pushing too fast and too far, but it will be interesting to see over the next few years (if the social media campaign to kick her out fails) whether her ideas get positive results.
I am very grateful to Emma for her inspiring and motivating speech at the the Association of Independent Museums (AIM) conference in Dudley yesterday.
I was fortunate enough to participate in it as Chair of a leading UK visitor attraction. To those who question allocating an hour of Emma’s time to sector leadership, I would ask you to consider what leadership looks like in the culture sector.
Emma spoke about all stakeholders. At Beamish, we pride ourselves in being a culture and heritage place for everyone who is willing to share it with everyone else.
Chris Loughran
Chair, Beamish Museum
Chrisloughran@beamish.org.uk
“Consider what leadership looks like in the culture sector”… What a meaningless – not to say condescending phrase. I have considered – and it’s more and more ludicrous and more and more irrelevant. You CEOs are all as bad as each other and all get paid the earth for this woke nonsense. It’s the players in this orchestra who are talented – not you “leaders” of culture.
Thank you Lloydie for taking the time to respond to my post. I am not, however, a CEO and as a Chair of a charity, I am an unremunerated volunteer.
Best,
Chris
You asked me to consider – and so I have; and I am still “considering what leadership looks like in the culture sector” (what on earth does that mean?). The subtext of what you are suggesting is that I should agree with you, because you think you are right, and that Ms Stenning is right – and I don’t agree with you. I despair with people like this in charge. Why on earth the board appointed someone with no musical knowledge or background is beyond me. The orchestra needs to rise up and speak. She started by imposing an extremely unpopular gimmicky concert – which showed she was a bulldozer and did not understand the nature of concerts and the audiences. The damage she has done to orchestra PR, and the numbers of upset and angry people cannot be ignored for much longer. It is the orchestra which is suffering. She started really badly, and instead of apologising and saying “I got this wrong” she dug her heels in and alienated so many long-standing devotees of this great band, seemingly without a thought for how it might affect audiences or players. Her big chance to put things right was after Bostridge – and she muffed it. And it really wasn’t hard to sort. But – as I have said before – she loves it when we complain – it clearly only confirms her feeling that she is right and must plough on regardless. Mary Mary Quite Contrary. I seriously fear for the orchestra which so many of us love, and our audiences. There are people voting with their feet and money – I won’t do that: I will stay and keep complaining until someone listens. I love the orchestra and the music too much to flee. Ok, Mr Loughran – now it’s your turn (read the vast majority of comments on this website) to consider that Emma Stenning MAY have got things terribly wrong?
I also see that Mr Loughran is a director or the Assc of British Orchestras. Nuff said.
And another thing: you manage to make it sound as though I, and many others here, are unreasonable, narrow and somehow out of date: “At Beamish, we pride ourselves in being a culture and heritage place for everyone who is willing to share it with everyone else.” Another subtext here, Mr Loughran: you imply that long-standing audiences here at CBSO do not want to share. This again, is nonsense. In 53 years of attending concerts here since I was a working-class lad of 11, I have never felt excluded (it never even occurred to me to feel so) — but I am starting to feel that the CEO does not want me and my kind now… I am not a minority in this feeling; but I don’t want to use my phone in concerts; I don’t want to slurp drinks and annoy my fellow punters; all I want to do is listen to great music and listen to this great orchestra. But no – that means I am a dinosaur. Your stance is patronising and exclusive, under the guise of sounding liberal and open-minded. The very fact that there are all these outcries tells us something very urgent and important. Emma Stenning, of course, loves it – it simply confirms she is right.
I take issue with the word “relevant”.
Marvel movies are popular, but are they relevant?
Norman, maybe it’s time to cool it with the attacks on this regional orchestra CEO. You’re whipping people up into a frenzy over nothing of real importance here.
I suspect that most of these comments (and copious upvotes) are all from the same individual but even so, please, give it a rest.
The comments are all from different individuals. We are reflecting local currents of opinion.
How on earth these irrelevant people get employment is beyond me. They are a waste of everyone’s time. But if people want to be taken in by the nonsense it is up to them. It’s called ‘progress’!
Date: 15th June 2024.
I’m surprised this woman is still in post. And, can readers imagine how Fritz Reiner, George Szell, Sir Thomas Beecham, Sir Adrian Boult and, latterly, Sir John Elliot Gardiner – to name a mere handful of true, no-nonsense, old-school maestri – would deal with her?
Ouch!
All tyrants (displaying no small degree of sadism also) – except Boult. Is that what we want a return to?
Caption for photo……”and I can donate a collection of whingeing old fossils I recently inherited, to any museum that can take them off my hands”
From my perspective: I’ve met Emma Stenning on a couple of occasions, found her to be personable, enthusiastic, willing to learn (since music is not her professional background) and massively supportive of local enterprise especially in offering a concerto engagement as part of the first prize to the long established Dudley International Piano Competition. I have my own view on the photography/drinks policy but this is not the place to air them.