CBSO claims increase in under-30s
OrchestrasProgrammes for tomorrow’s concert in Birmingham contain this paragraph from CEO Emma Stenning:
As we’ve worked hard to connect with new audiences, I’m delighted to share an 8% growth in attendance, and the brilliant news that 28% of those who come are under 30. There’s lots still to do, and I am excited for what is to come in our 2024-25 Season of Joy.
So far, so well spun.
However, our local number crunchers say the figures have been fudged by counting total attendance rather than ticket sales. They include free participation in school concerts and community events. The final data are likely to look very different.
How would a “local number cruncher” know? Based on what data? If there is public data that contradicts the claims of the CBSO administration, where is it? If the “local number crunchers” claim inside knowledge, on what basis?
I can’t see how anyone would know without access to sales and ticket data from the orchestra itself. Are the “local number crunchers” claiming the CBSO’s own figures contradict their public claims?
This news is great! We look at the audience and see too many white pale and stale men.
Birmingham has a Diverse Community and we should Serve them better. The orchestra has a Responsibility to Reflect Diversity instead of focusing on niche music. Emma appointed the Community Board and their Associates to make a better future for the CBSO like this.
The attendance from Classical Concerts goes down so we will focus more on the Diverse Concerts.
https://cbso.co.uk/events/symphonic-sessions-summer-of-sport
Here’s the next one, who’s coming? Tickets are only £10 compared to £60 for the Classical Concerts. More Accessible Music with Carribean Food and Fried Chicken Strips. It’s going to be Joyful and Diverse, more Relevant for Birmingham. 🙂 The ticket sales will be better than the Mozart concerts so that’s a sign to move Further in this Direction in the Future.
Emma’s friend or Emma herself?
What you have done to the CBSO recently is appalling. It’s fine if you don’t care for serious music, but don’t force that on us.
Now we know the plan. Above-inflation ticket price increases (you recently doubled the price of the cheapest seats) and attacks on the current audience so sales wane. Subsidised £10 ‘community’/’diversity’/’immersive’ concerts that you say are more ‘relevant’ and ‘inclusive’.
I already cancelled my subscription after you encouraged people to use phones in concerts and at the same time sending out letters to patrons insisting you were discouraging phones.
You’re trying to kill what the CBSO has spent years building and replace it with a mediocre, diverse and inclusive free for all. I have supported you since Louis Fremaux at the Town Hall. It’s heartbreaking.
You sound old and entitled Audrey.
We need to Refresh the audience and make it more Relevant. Emma’s made clear this is vital for the future and hired the Community Board to advise. An audience that Reflects the whole Diverse Population of Birmingham.
This means Big Changes…
If your obsessed about out-of-date music you can listen on Spotify, don’t be selfish and make concerts all about Audrey
What the hell is this Community Board?
https://cbso.co.uk/about-us/staff-trustees
Apparently Stenning made it new for 2024. How much are they paid? What is their remit?
It’s you’re.
If other UK orchestras were going down this “modernisation” route I would say we need to review what we do, BUT I find no evidence that they are.Am I mistaken??
Emma ‘black people need phones so they don’t get bored’ Stenning
Emma ‘black people will come if we give them fried chicken’ Stenning
It’s crazy. She comes out with these clangers then says CBSO is institutionally racist and the players need anti-racism training.
You forgot to draw attention to a new feature of CBSO concerts being highlighted on the webpage for this concert: the audience is invited to JOIN IN. “And you won’t be able to stop yourself from joining in with the CBSO’s renditions of Sweet Caroline and You’ll Never Walk Alone”
Couldn’t this be extended to the normal concerts? It would be fun to be invited to la-la along with, say, Beethoven 9.
The concert concerned is part of CBSO’s occasional offering at Hockley Social Club, Birmingham if you bothered to read it properly.
Hockley Social is a great venue for relaxed performances, a bar, and Hockley’s own legendary street food vendors. Please try not to be so snidey.
We also have bars and a cafe at Symphony Hall and want to make the Experience more Relaxed and Relevant. Street Food is a great idea and we’re working on collaborations to improve the Classical Concerts.
Thanks for your support everybody
I especially love ISE’s capitalizing the words that are meaningful to Emma.
I love the idea of collaborations to improve the classical concerts.
I’ve always wondered if I could get a note out of a French horn. Could you schedule a Mozart horn concerto for me to have a go please? Any one will do, he wrote several.
Or you could collaborate with another organisation with a CEO with established leadership credentials and learn how the job should be done.
Did you miss my reference to “normal concerts” and *extending* the joining-in principle to them?
Isn’t the word “snide” rather than “snidey”?
Still loving the Crazy Caps, I. S. Emma. But what’s happened to all the shriek marks!?!? Please don’t Curb Your Enthusiasm!!!
Either way, yes: Let us all Move Further in this Direction in the Future (that’s Mao, isn’t it? Classy).
I see that literacy is not among your virtues. Maybe it’s not that important for a Stenning supporter.
I think the down voters have had an irony bypass
Nice bit of casual racism there. You’re a credit.
It’s not racist to say the CBSO works too hard to please white people. Actually this means the CBSO is Racist.
Emma’s determined to get a Representative Audience and that means Innovation.
Emma already put an Anti Racist Approach in the Business Plan so the CBSO can do better and be less Racist. But there’s a lot more to do.
“We look at the audience and see too many white pale and stale men.”
You are not intersted at all in the music, only in promoting your own toxic kind of racism.
And ageism and misandry.
Pretty good trolling. Not ’90s Usenet level but not bad for the lower standards of this day and age.
“Too many white and stale men?”
Good grief.
What constitutes a stale man? Would you rather have fewer white men (as opposed to more people across the board)?
Whoever you are, you are ignorant, unintelligent and quite frankly your attitude is insulting, misguided and does nothing but cause divisiveness.
Do you work for the Arts Council?
It has to be obvious Emil that their numbers are unrealistic?
It’s clear when you go to Symphony Hall that it’s not the case 28% of the audience is under 30. Or audiences are bigger than last year.
Emma Stenning says specifically ‘attendance growth’ not ‘revenue growth’ or ‘ticket sales’. The latter is what the orchestra needs to keep running and paying the bills. From how it sounds, donors and subscribers are unhappy, which is exactly the opposite of what Emma Stenning should want…
Unless you attend all the concerts and have precise data on the ages of all attendees, it’s not “clear” at all. And given that most subscription series attendees will never be present at Family or Schools concerts, it’s hard to see how they’d be in a position to make a realistic estimate. “Best guess” attendance figures from anyone other than the management or venue staff are often wildly unreliable.
Ticket revenue is important, of course, but it is not the only income source and attendance (rather than income) figures often matter a great deal to the private and public funders who make up the rest of the picture.
An orchestra needs revenue, I agree. That’s often – not always – ticket revenue, and obviously if the CBSO has a plan relying less on ticket revenue (subsidies? Hard to see; sponsorship? Possible; other revenue-generating programmes? Possible), that’s a heavy (but possible) lift.
I’m questioning the claim that local “number crunchers” say the data is “fudged”. Where’s that coming from? Perhaps they have a point, perhaps the data is skewed (more performances? More educational activities? etc.). But in the absence of any concrete claim to credibility, it’s a very heavy accusation to say the Orchestra is being dishonest without any evidence. And I fail to see how anyone could know that without the ticket sales data, which only the orchestra possesses (to my knowledge). So I ask again: where does this “local number crunchers’s” accusation come from?
Have you ever been to Symphony Hall? Do you really think 28% of tickets belong to under-30s?
CBSO do play in other venues!! Have you been to the Hockey Social Club concerts?
How will Hockley Social Club pay the bills?
The problem here is that Emma’s alienating Symphony Hall audiences, doing some extra outreach and school concerts, then claiming the year is a success and brushing any problems under the carpet.
She’s not going to balance the books if with one hand she’s wasting money on gimmicks and on the other hand she’s p*ssing off the people who spend the most on tickets!
No I do not!
Easy to test this.
For any going to Madam Butterly get your phones out and snap the audience, let’s see if we can spot the diverse under 30 population of Birmingham.
That’s great Gus!
We want more people to use phones so they can share the Experience on Social Media.
Can you tag our media team in your posts? Thanks!
Can’t the media team buy their own tickets, go to the concerts and take their own photos? Primary source data is always best for excellent audit trail purposes. Asking people to tag you in could imply that you have entered into an agency contract with them, for which they could be entitled to a fee.
I think this person is a troll.
If your argument is that the data is wrong because of your anecdotal visits…that proves my point, no? Aggregate data and individual observations are not the same thing.
And you think no other orchestra or arts organisation does this?
You sweet innocent child…
Scary how she says “there’s still lots to do”. Hasn’t Stenning caused enough damage?
We want to remind you and others of our Respectful Behaviour Policy:
https://cbso.co.uk/terms-conditions/respect-policy
“Anyone who engages with the CBSO is committing to being part of a culture that values compassion, respect, and joy.”
We ask you kindly to reconsider your actions and consider the effect they have on others. You are not contributing compassion, respect and joy towards the CBSO.
Thank you in advance for your cooperation.
information@cbso.co.uk
How democratic! And if they do not shut up – send them for re-education in a Gulag…
What made you think a Respectful Behaviour Policy is a good idea Emma?
You belong in a primary school not an orchestra
Yes she has.
Has she still not realised that her crazy ‘Season of Joy’ branding isn’t an appropriate way to advertise serious music like Mahler 9?
Here’s a reminder of how Emma’s branding her first full season:
Turn up the joy!
Find your own moments of joy in our 2024-25 season.
Join us for spirit lifting, roof raising, toe tapping musical experiences.
Find your happy place as our epic orchestra and Music Director Kazuki Yamada take to the stage and fill our city, streets and hearts with passion, energy and joy.
Whether you’re looking to fill an afternoon, an evening or even make a weekend of it, it’s time for you to take your seat, forget the world for a while and fill up with our most joyful season yet.”
After all the complaints Stenning proves she’s not listening because she’s still obsessed with her ridiculous ‘Season of Joy’ branding.
She’s so ignorant she probably still believes in it. All of these are in Emma’s ‘Season of Joy’:
Mahler 9 = ‘Joy’
Strauss Metamorphosen = ‘Joy’
Tchaikovsky 6 = ‘Joy’
Bruckner 9 = ‘Joy’
Mahler Lied von der Erde = ‘Joy’
With all the comments from Birmingham regulars saying how she hates music and can’t go half a concert without a drink, perhaps she genuinely doesn’t know music is about more than just joy joy joy….
Kindertotenlieder would be an obvious candidate for a Season of Joy.
Reminds me Classic FM’s obsession with relaxation.
When she i s drummed out, it should be to the strains of Chabrier’s March Joyeuse, followed by Suk’s ‘Towards a New Life’.
Emma’s ‘Joy’ obsession is beyond belief. When she doesn’t know what to do, she wants ‘Joy’ branding on top for enhancement.
In the ‘Season of Joy’ she has even branded a whole concert as ‘Kazuki Conducts Joy’. There’s a funny story behind this concert…
We got the Bernstein West Side Story symphonic dances on the programme because of the mambo and cha cha: does she know it’s a tragedy ending with Tony’s death?
We got the Ravel La Valse on the programme: does she know it was written in the aftermath of WW1?
We got two elegies on the programme: does she know what the word ‘elegy’ means?
Hilarious!
https://cbso.co.uk/events/kazuki-conducts-joy
Joy Division Mk 2.
Not a very happy ending to the first one.
The next time they perform the joyful Mahler 9th, I will be present in the audience with a drink in one hand and my phone in the other.
It shall be an honor to film those last few measures and immediately share the clip on my Facebook page.
Hope Emma will give me a “like”!
That’s amazing Jonathan! We want more people to Enhance concerts with drinks food and phones. It takes the total Concert Experience to a better level.
Can you tag our Social Media Team in your Mahler 9th Symphony Video? And if you come to anything else? We already Feature audience Content on our Channels. 🙂
Thanks!
Readers: beware of “I Support Emma”!
This person is (probably) Emma herself and has NO idea that my comment was sarcastic. They fell for the bait.
The response above proves that he or she knows NOTHING about Mahler’s 9th. Anyone else who knows the work would have reacted differently to my grotesque idea filming those final measures while drinking a pint. Either that, or he/she is pulling my leg.
Mahler is turning in his grave with such a dishonorable response above about the “Social Media Team” and “enhancing concerts with drinks, food and phones”.
It would be better to change the seasonal programming to suit the drinking and picture hungry crowds, rather than what she is doing now.
I pity the musicians who have to put up with this woman and her followers.
Works like Mahler’s 9th will be next on Stenning’s target… Anything by white European male composers is now grist for the mill. Birmingham’s Symphony Hall will soon become The Stenning Centre, if not the Jimi Hendrix Memorial Hall, Bar and Cafeteria.
It’s well known Emma will spin anything to make herself look good. She’s got an agenda and makes it 100% clear she needs to change the audience at Symphony Hall. She even included this ideology in the last CBSO annual report.
Let’s remember this is someone who says it’s important to take drinks into the hall to encourage ticket sales but we receive constant complaints about the policy with some long-term subscribers not renewing due to disrupted concerts. And Emma still sits in the hall with a drink in her hand (often the only person) because she still believes in it.
One must naturally be circumspect, but there have been enough comments on this theme to make one wonder whether Emma “sits in the hall with a drink in her hand . . . because she still believes in it” or because it believes in her.
Another point, one that may be something and nothing but is nonetheless striking: her appearance has changed quite literally beyond recognition since 2018, when she was running the Bristol Old Vic. (Ten seconds on Google Images will bear this observation out.)
I didn’t realise this was the same woman! Only just made the link!
As a Friday giggle here are her original 5 resolutions to solve the CBSO’s funding problems:
Our 5 Resolutions:
We will share exceptional musical experiences, fulfilling and building the regional, national, and international reputation of the CBSO.
We will welcome audiences, artists, and staff from every community in Birmingham and beyond to everything we do.
We will collaborate and share creative opportunities and resources across the many communities in our diverse city, with the aim of driving real social change and expanding the talent pipeline into the creative industries.
We will respect and celebrate the presence, personality and individuality of our players, choirs, youth ensembles, conductors, staff, participants, and audiences.
We will demonstrate our belief that a symphony orchestra is a uniquely powerful and eloquent vehicle with which to achieve these things.
The role of a Symphony Orchestra is not to “drive social change.” It is to make music.
Indeed it is.
This is about as credible as a political manifesto – all aspiration, no inspiration. Strike up the bland. All ‘jam tomorrow’. Just out of interest, was this written by Emma’s fair hand, or did she pay shedloads to a PR agency, who used an AI Corporate Buzzword Bull*** Creator. I understand perfecly each separate word but, strung together like this, I have no idea what it means. There is no clue what practical steps will be taken.
Emma is a liability. She looks unwell – nothing like previous photographs. Maybe retirement to spend more time with her family could be a more honourable exit route, rather than being turfed out.
If she really does want to change the audience at Symphony Hall then I will,with extreme reluctance take my£1200 ticket money plus £300 patronage elsewhere. All so very sad.
Emma Stenning is delusional. She’s pushed away dozens of loyal patrons because she insists phones, drinks, lights, films, whatever is better than brilliant music. Remember this is a woman with zero music experience who was forced in from the world of theatre.
People raise concerns and, instead of caring, she ignores their messages and commissions a ‘Respectful Behaviour Policy’ that threatens patrons with bans if they criticise her too much. She has sent threatening messages to at least one patron.
How does she end the season? “remarkable year”, dodgy numbers, “lots still to do” on her diversity agenda, “Season of Joy”. Her only focus is patting herself on the back instead of prioritising the orchestra or her audience.
More numerous, joyful, and youthful bums in seats is her only metric.
As someone who’s made several posts critical of the Stenning approach, I have to say this claim fits in with the evidence of my eyes. I think you do see a greater proportion of under 30s at ‘standard’ CBSO concerts than you did. From their obvious commitment to and (as I’ve sometimes overheard) knowledgeable discussion of what they’re hearing, I’ve assumed most are Conservatoire students or young people who are otherwise pre-committed to the classical ‘scene’. It’s a hugely welcome development all the same.
BUT – the reason for this seems to me absolutely clear. Students and under 18s get in for £5, 18-30s for £10, whereas for everyone else the lowest price in a decent seat (especially since the decommissioning of the Grand Tier) is often £37. That’s just too high for most over 30s!
Old people have enough money and will come anyway!
Our aim is to get Younger and Diverse audiences. That’s why we lower prices for under 30s and Inclusive Concerts and raise prices for the rest.
We don’t need more of the same because it’s already not representative.
Thanks
What’s not mentioned is that all students can get tickets for £5 and those under 30 can get tickets for £10. Both way less than for those of us over 30!!!
Correct. This has been the case at the CBSO for at least 25 years now. Similar policies are at place in most UK arts organisations.
I believe that is was Benjamin Franklin who said: ‘Well done is better than well said’. So who will start the online petition demanding Stenning’s dismissal?
Absolutely sick of Emma Stenning. Emma Emma Emma, joy joy joy. A good CEO doesn’t make the show about herself against everyone else’s wishes.
Crafty how Emma only mentions attendance!
Are ticket sales up or down on last year? The fact Emma omits this tells us the answer.
Makes you wonder: why is Emma throwing money at expensive lighting setups? Normal tickets go over £60. Why is she subsidising £10 tickets for the Tom Morris interactive concert (Tom being her personal friend)? Why is she subsiding the £12 black female composers concert? Why does Dvorak 9 cost £65 but Dvorak 9+ Black Voices cost £20?
She’s running CBSO to the ground and trying to hide it so she doesn’t lose her job.
Thanks for sharing Norman. Another day with more arrogance from Emma.
She could have used the programme note to celebrate the orchestra. But no. She uses it to with deceiving numbers to try and make herself look good.
We’re trying our best despite her.
If the figures are true, and we are not in a position to dispute them, then it augers ill for the type of concert going many of us are familiar with. A younger audience seems somewhat in conflict with the older one if reactions to what is continuing to happen at CBSO. And as the direction of travel is towards the young then the rest of us better get used to our obvious discomfort. That, or as in my own case, avoid the whole sorry exercise in learning to live with the vagaries of what is currently the dominant trend of undermining the past in pursuit of some vague notion of what the future must be.
And the under-30s are hardly underserved musically. There is popular music galore, from inexpensive or free gig artists in bars playing what they like to hear up to the doubtless very pricey Taylor Swifts and the like. There are festivals and masses of online music. This is not an overlooked community.
If orchestras have to do what pop artists do in order to attract this audience, they seem to me on the wrong track. The job is to get the orchestra out there a bit more — this Hockley gig, for instance — and to make sure to show (as their programme would seem to) the range and wonder of the classical music included in the hope that some participants will be drawn to the Hall for the real thing.
Pops concerts are for Andre Rieu-type fans — people who associate orchestras with something classy but who do not really like classical music. There’s a limit to how much of their professional lives orchestra musicians should have to spend on this sort of thing.
The aim is to interest young people in classical music, to which they are decreasingly exposed at home, in school and through the media. Getting it into schools is the most urgent requirement, and demanding that the BBC — which appears to be giving Glastonbury exhaustive coverage — get back to offering some well-considered, interestingly-presented, classical music with the object of making it part of a normal element of society.
Spot on! Anyway, the assumption that younger people aren’t interested in classical music is demonstrably false. Take a Prom concert – not a disco night or a ‘Doctor Who’ one, but one with great and familiar classics. Look around and you’ll notice a wealth of younger people there – not tiny infants, maybe, but teenagers and those in their 20s and 30s. Many of these Proms sell out, and the audience are by no means all geriatrics.
As a child, our school teacher often brought us to concerts with subsidised tickets and as a student we were often given free or very very cheap tickets. That helped to develop the CBSO habit. It waned when money was tight ( family and mortgage) but led to returning and becoming a subscriber when finance was easier. Have most of those younger people I see now paid for their tickets?Now the problem is so many of the best concerts are in the afternoon when many of those between 5 and 65/70 are unable to attend them. That is short sighted as they will not get the habit as my generation did.
Great point Betty!
We’re aware matinees are ageist and racist…and are exploring Solutions
Surely there are more evening concerts? What I recall from my working days was colleagues complaining that evening concerts were too late for tired people to attend midweek. But in several orchestras with which I am familiar efforts to start concerts earlier and/or make them shorter have not been successful.
Certainly school students and working people cannot attend weekday matinees. Maybe musicians will have to become like golfers and basically work weekends.
Her name is Emma, not Shirley!
“Now”? The CBSO’s matinee series has been running since the 1980s. Meanwhile there are more evening concerts than ever before.
The only way to attract a bigger audience, under 30 or otherwise, is to stimulate curiosity by showing genuine, passionate, confidence in the strengths of the product as it really is. “Joy” is a weak, simple minded and inappropriate choice of word and will not do the trick. It makes me think of Mary Poppins.
Implying that classical concerts are so intrinsically boring that they need tarting up with gimmicks is the worst message to send out. It merely reinforces the worst prejudices already out there.
UK readers will be familiar with the “Ratner Effect”. Well done.
Joy = Mary Poppins? How about Beethoven 9? How about Bach motet BWV 277?
Bach 277 = Christ lag in Todesbanden
In English for you: Christ lay in Death’s dark prison
What is your point? Or are you trying to support Emma and making no sense in the process?
Christ lag in Todesbanden
Für unsre Sünd gegeben,,
Er ist wieder erstanden
Und hat uns bracht das Leben;
Des wir sollen fröhlich sein,,
Gott loben und ihm dankbar sein
Und singen halleluja,,
Halleluja!
In English for you: Christ lay in death’s bonds, handed over for our sins,
he is risen again, and has brought us life. For this we should be joyful,
praise God and be thankful to him and sing allelluia, Alleluia.
But actually, it was a typo: I meant BWV 227, but 277 does just as well (or the cantata BWV 4)
I really don’t see why a season emphasising the joy of music is so distasteful to so many commenters here. Are you really all miserable old grumps? Surely not.
I’m sure you know perfectly well that joy is only one of a very wide range of possible reactions to a classical concert.
I’m saying that perhaps it’s not the best way to sell tickets as there’s a high probability that “joy” will not be on the menu for any single concert. It reminds me of those “Relaxing Classical Music” albums. Superficial, not representative to the extent of being misleading, and a poor introduction to the genre.
As I said, weak, simple minded and inappropriate.
From your doggedness I assume you might be Emma (or Beki)?
You’re getting constant negative feedback about your decision to reduce a whole season to “Joy” and stilll your only priority is to defend yourself.
Joy is a wonderful feeling but it’s only one of many. Music encompasses so much more than joy alone.
It’s not the simple use of the word joy but how you ram it down our throats and present it with the rest of your messaging. When you ask us to find a “happy place” with “spirit lifting, roof raising, toe tapping musical experiences”, are you seriously unable to register how this sounds to your core audience?
The tone would be a good fit for a schools concert (brilliant initiative, by the way). But it’s simply not helpful and if anything unconstructive for your core audience. You need to be building bridges again, not pushing people further away.
I can understand this from Emma but I’m surprised Beki approved it. Others would have been able to keep Emma’s enthusiasm while still making regular audiences sound welcome. Beki’s “CBSO Remastered” (from before Emma), by comparison, was a much more effective balance that appealed to both sides.
If this is you, Beki, and not Emma, enjoy your maternity! Now that really is something joyful!
All related to ‘O be Joyful’ Ms Stenning no doubt!
Not all Emma’s fault. Someone must have appointed her. Presumably the same person(s) can remove her?