Winchester’s plan to get rid of choristers
UncategorizedWe have been leaked a PowerPoint plan that was shown selectively to members of the choral foundation in Winchester. Under the title ‘Strategic Plan and Future Direction’, its first priority is to ‘increase diversity of contribution’ – in other words, to replace Grammy-winning choristers with a variety of singers from other parts of the regional demographic.
The Cathedral’s two main ‘areas of focus’ in the PowerPoint are ‘reach and access’ and ‘diversity and inclusion’.
Many in the community remain outraged by the pressured departure of the Director of Music Andrew Lumsden.
What’s so hard to understand?
Reduced excellence in music = reduced numbers through the door = reduced income?
If the Cathedral wants to forge ahead with plans for the future, whilst remaining as the house of God rather than a museum, and retaining its spiritual role and responsibility to everyone far and wide, why would it even consider the one constant which truly lifts the heart and spirit to Heaven? Answer? Money.
It’s not just money, it’s also power.
The idea that increased diversity means reduced excellence is racist. What’s so hard to understand? There are more than enough excellent choristers, we live on an earth of billions of people. That increased diversity means reduced excellence is not only racist, it’s idiotic.
No it doesn’t. If they were excellent already, they would have been chosen. If you see racism everywhere, then perhaps you need to stop projecting and take your race lens off.
Smart move posting as “token black guy” with that profile picture.
Well said. You have summed this up completely.
If they really wanted to save money, they could get rid of quite a few of the 35 or so jobs at the cathedral office. That place is a bloated bureaucracy with more job listings every year. And most of these people never set foot in the cathedral or attend a service.
Let’s be clear what this is: a general musical dumbing down exercise.
Winchester will discover that whilst it’s fairly easy to sweep away centuries of tradition, it will be far harder to put something worthwhile and new in its place.
What a sad state of affairs. And why?
Could it be a case of sour grapes on the part of the precentor because his own son didn’t make it into the choir?
It must come from the Dean, surely? Perhaps she will step down because she attended a private school.
Probably not, Judie Wilson, because most of these Dean and Precentor types are self-serving hypocrites – the type highlighted by Our Lord.
Gotta meet that diversity quota
Not surprising, given what is happening at other Cathedrals (Canterbury comes to mind). This is the issue with the woke capture of the CofE – ludicrous nonsense like this becomes inevitable. Scandalous.
Happened also at Sheffield a few years ago.
This is a conspiracy by our hapless Archbishops to dumb down music which is costly and brings more folk into church these days than the dull and uninspired words spouted from the pulpits these days.
Look at how many Cathedrals have lost their music leaders and organists these last few years to confirm this theory.
No cathedral music department is exempt from scrutiny when the senior clergy (particularly Precentors) seem intent on destroying their music in worship and seem content with mediocre simple music which doesn’t inspire and is often banal and uninspiring.
Count how many Cathedrals have lost their previously highly regarded music leaders (or read about them on Slipped Disc!) to see a trend beginning to appear here.
Watch this space in the anticipated backlash when this news breaks after this Bank Holiday haze and the consequences of a highly regarded first rate musician walking (or being pushed) from his job hits the big media a a result of the bullying dysfunctional clergy who sadly now dominate our churches & cathedrals where clergy jealously overshadows so called Christianity from those pertaining to be priests who ought to practice themselves what they preach!
And they wonder why their churches are empty!?
Lapsed Organist – you have hit the nail on the head. Many of these Precentors and Deans are some of the least Christian people on the planet.
Following Canterbury’s example perhaps. Canterbury boys’ choir is now down to 11. The new additions from the wider area seem to be musically illiterate. They seem to be made full choristers after only 6 weeks. Rumour has it that some of the new additions are planning to leave after only a few short months.
Diversity, a good term for reduced costs and dumbing down. Surely it would be better to up-skill and bring people up to a higher standard? Why are the powers that be hell bent on getting rid of the British Tradition. Church of Diversity?
“Money, money, money”, Abba were heard to sing…
When the dean arrived, they muttered that she wanted to replace the foundation with a community choir. We all laughed…and then an organist was made redundant…little by little, the statue has been infected with rot, neglected, and now lies poised to fall flat on its face. All to uphold her ideals and to preserve the vindicate rampage of the precentor.
I joined the Church of England for a few key reasons, a very important one of which was the sublime music and choral tradition, which is what touches my soul and reveals a glimpse of the divine to me. The Catholic Church (mostly) threw its musical tradition overboard and replaced it with mediocre popular everyday music — the kind you hear in almost every radio station. The point of music is to elevate the spirit above the everyday experience. Destroying that tradition would chase the likes of me away. I should add that I sing in a community choir and we sing in church every once in a while, but even with some excellent singers the quality is very different. You can have both…
Worse, the Catholics adopted the mediocre popular music of the 1950s, which is what most parish priests and the ladies who play the keyboard still believe to be modern and popular.
“I hear raindrops at my window,
Love is like the rain …”
Can you imagine Today’s Young People belting out that?
Sadly the C of E is increasingly devoid of backsides on pews. How long are they going to be able to maintain the cathedrals, let alone the choirs therein?
The Southern Cathedrals Festival is at Winchester in mid-July. Andrew will be the ‘host’. It will be very uncomfortable for the clergy (or perhaps the Dean and Precentor will book their holiday for this time).
Let’s not conflate increasing the diversity of musical offerings with firing the choir. At 25 pounds per visitor, they should certainly prioritize keeping their legacy musical ensemble intact, and adding to the music program!
If Winchester wants to be inclusive, there are plenty of ways it could be so without destroying the choir. The C of E’s assault on its choirs has as much to do with the current perceptions of classical music as elitist as anything else. It seems that virtue signalling is considered far more important than offering God the excellent standard of worship that He deserves. Inclusivity and excellence are not mutually exclusive. The last time I saw the choir of St John’s, Cambridge, it contained singers from several ethnic backgrounds, one of them wearing a turban. All had been appointed for their musical excellence. Rather than imposing the lowest common denominator, the C of E would do better to campaign for the widening of opportunities to enable all to have the chance of reaching similar excellence
How many of the St John’s choir served their time as choristers? If you want to destroy something cut off it’s supply and it will wither away.
And, lo, the Philistines do plan to casteth out the Choristers from off their seats and smoteth them hip and thigh, never to return. This causeth much wailing and gnashing of teeth and provoketh vulgar consonants throughout the land and the fig tree putteth forth nothing in support of the hallowed choir. No longer will the blessed hassocks be visited by the cassocked-knees of the sacred, estimable, singers which have delighteth the ear, raiseth the soul for centuries. All that shall remaineth of the Lord’s singers are the veritable CDs and vinyl records of a bygone age when music meaneth something to the Clergy and they supporteth the sacred music of many generations which passeth all understanding. Forgive them, Lord, for they knoweth not what they do because they are led by the power of filthy lucre instead of beauty and holiness within the tabernacle. They have become as a tinkling cymbal and there is no health in them.
What a tragic appalling series of events concerning a jewel of English music and performance.
Simples! What is a Cathedral without Choristers?
It should loose its title as Cathedral and be demoted to Parish Church only.
Just look at French Cathedrals for the exemplar.
A cathedral with an excellent choir singing daily services contributes to the life of something much wider than a museum. Are the clergy proposing to give up saying the daily offices to save on the heating costs as well? More excellent musicians are needed not less.
From: Richard Stanbrook.
Date: 7th May 2024.
Very sadly, this is yet another chapter in Brexitannia’s cultural decline. No doubt, “wokery” puppet-masters and philistine administrators – who couldn’t care less about Winchester Cathedral’s famed musical reputation – are laughing all the way to the bank …
Cultural decline – yes. So many comments I agree with here regarding the wilful vandalism of our centuries old and globally envied tradition, heralded so publically at high profile royal events of recent years. It seems like the powers that by want their cake and eat it. Excellence does not drop out of the sky, but needs constant nurturing and investment. I cannot think of another country in the world where you can step out of the rain on a wet cold weekday evening into a provincial cathedral pretty well anywhere in the Country and experience a half decent evensong. Cultural diversity surely has to not come at the cost of quality. This will serve no one long-term.
May the jaws of hell open for anyone even contemplating such a desecration. Would you smash the windows and topple the statues too because they don’t meet some tendentious, profoundly political and passing agenda, when you are custodians of a centuries’ old tradition, on behalf of the cathedral, the city, the nation and the world? Something fine that has been built by generations, and which people have devoted their lives to, deserves reverence and care, and the future deserves to benefit from it as we do. Learn some humility, and think again about your responsibilities.
Five stars.
Yes, “custodians” is the operative word. The CoE does not own these traditions in the same way that members of the National Trust hierarchy do not own the properties that were bequeathed to the NT.
And yes again, “humility” is required.
What a shameless headline. There may be cause for concern about whatever is happening at Winchester, but you know full well that the PowerPoint presentation says nothing about ‘getting rid of choristers.’
Read and weep: https://www.facebook.com/share/KSgTtBfabLh7iSN2/?mibextid=WC7FNe
All I would say is that Winchester Cathedral need to get their recruitment right first. In 2023 I applied to direct the youth choir as advertised on their website. As a working-class person of mixed-heritage and with a reputation for building up church choirs to excellent standards, I didn’t even receive a response to my application. Apparently the appointment was a “done deal” from inside sources. And yes, the application had been read and received. So much for diversity and inclusion…
George all other considerations aside, it’s appalling that your submission went unremarked. I’ve been a church music director (RC) for 45 years and a Cathedral music director since 1998 (planning to retire in the foreseeable future). Over the course of my career I’ve submitted job application packages that have likewise elicited no response. I find it appalling and utterly unprofessional that a church would invest time and money in advertising a job nationally, and then not reply to applicants who taken the time to prepare a submission. BUT – I totally expect that behavior in the RC Church in the US, which is certainly one of the most ill-run institutions one could imagine, at every level and with remarkable consistency across the 20,000 or so Catholic institutions in this country. To hear that a Church of England Cathedral in Britain would behave the same way is something I would never have imagined. I’m sorry you were treated this way, and I imagine many others were as well. What does it take to write a letter or send an email? I will share a story though of a very different experience; I once applied for a job for which I was without a doubt sufficiently qualified to at least receive cursory consideration. However I received a rejection letter so quickly, I could barely imagine my submission had a chance to land on anyone’s desk. Lol. There was though someone on the hiring committee, a musician of extremely questionable accomplishment, who definitely had a strong distaste for me. But, that’s how the world works and to this day (almost 20 years later) I still chuckle whenever something reminds me of the experience.
Canon Roger Job, former Precentor, was a wonderful man who must be turning in his grave over current events at Winchester. So must Trevor Beeson, a Dean loved by so many.
The current Precentor on the other hand should be removed from office with immediate effect. He should be firmly reminded that he is merely God’s humble servant. It is not his Cathedral or his place to destroy what is sacred and cherished by so many the world over. He is merely a custodian and clearly has no humility whatsoever.
The Dean appears to be totally spineless and the silence emanating from her office is frankly deafening, while posting cheerful smiley posts on Facebook as if all is well.
Let us all pray that this tragedy is reversed according to God’s will. May those who put themselves first be removed from office and from ministry.
Spot on, Rotten Clergy…
I wonder what is the view of RSCM?
In my experience, they will not put their collective heads above the parapet.
Clearly Winchester has lost the plot. Dismantling the high standards of music and singing is a novel way of improving “access.” When it relies on corporate accounting management techniques to make changes it is an admission of the lack of spiritual and religious leadership which is obviously at a very low ebb. Perhaps what is needed is a second Reformation, with a clearing out of the rafts of politics and self-serving posts which seem to be everywhere in the higher ranks of the Church, and a welcome return to integrity, honesty and above all, spiritual leadership.
Sadly, much of what was going on in the Church of England between the Reformation and Victoria’s reign do not bear much scrutiny. I think it was Thomas Attwood who, when made Master of the Choristers at a London cathedral discovered that while he had authority over the choir, he had none over the organist, who could pretty well do as he liked, and that the Lay Clerks and Gentlemen of the Choir were averse to learning new music. Then there was the scandal of non-resident clergy, who had acquired their incumbencies by secular influence … Let us finish with the Noble Lord who informed the House of Lords that things had come to a pretty pass if religion was allowed to affect a man’s private life …
What is happening to our country and our culture needs to be halted now. This is beyond awful , and will be the first of many
As a DoM who felt compelled to resign because of the new incumbent’s hostility towards the parish’s fine and longstanding music programme, this really hits home. I left, the Music Admin left, then half the choir left. Populism, inflated egos, and a lack of respect for tradition will inevitably drive churches even further into irrelevance.
I do agree with a lot of what is being said here. However, what no-one is mentioning is that every single cathedral in England is struggling to attract/recruit child choristers, whether boys (the recruitment of whom has been an issue for quite a number of years) or girls (who were recently newly admitted to lots of cathedral choirs for practical reasons – to plug gaps left by boys – as much as to increase participation/diversity). When it comes to increasing diversity in “ethnic” terms, in fact, growing numbers of cathedrals are relying on children from ethnically diverse backgrounds to fill up their choirs. In opposition to what some commentators here have written, though, I have not noticed any adverse qualitative affect from this at all. Children from all backgrounds are just as likely to be able to sing as to not be able to, in equal measure. To suggest otherwise is indeed, as some commentators have said, racist indeed.
Perhaps Norman would like to actually share said PowerPoint (which is now in public domain), highlighting the points where it says choir should be disbanded? Having read PowerPoint I can say that nowhere does it say anything about dismantling the choir, in fact the complete opposite. Yes, Andrew Lumsden’s departure is certainly to be questioned, as well as Claudia Grimmell, as should the bullyboy tactics of the Precentor (now public knowledge) and the spineless actions of the Dean (nothing to see here folks………..not!!!), perhaps warranting a visitation from the Bishop? But please Norman, please report the truth and not scaremongering, s***stirring opiniated lies!
Yes, “what is happening … needs to be halted now” – as with so many instances of the march of the Philistines in the UK. I have no involvement in or insights about the apparatus of music in the CofE, but there are several people in this thread who clearly do. The need for them to put their heads together is self-evident – and heads aligned, to marshal others with insight and status, and get mobilising the counter-offensive. The great petition that rescued the BBC Singers demonstrates the power those who care and know can muster (and no griping please about its incomplete achievement of objectives. They are still singing). This website is clearly a popular meeting place for those of opinion. Can it also be a spur to them to get together and act?
If we look outside of this current debacle, we see many examples of organisations trying to brush matters under the carpet, whether by NDAs or a simple ‘cover-up’. It never works. I have no doubt that, at some stage, the ‘Powerpoint presentation’ will leak into the public domain. It’s very hard to keep these documents secret in the age of the internet. If it doesn’t actually surface, then the basic direction of travel will be made very clear when the Director of Music vacancy is advertised. We must expect to see the appropriate ‘new age’ wording to feature prominently.
There is another problem coming up – and I am NOT making a political statement. The (almost) inevitable addition of VAT to private school fees is going to have a negative impact on all Cathedrals where the choir school is ‘private’. Some Cathedrals draw their choristers from the state sector and will be unaffected. Winchester is very much currently tied to the private sector, so is this ‘new direction’ being influenced by financial considerations ?
Sic transit Gloria mundi. More geese than swans nowlive, more fools thanwise.
‘Winchester Cathedral,
You’re bringing me down.
You stood and you watched as
Dr Lumpo left town.
‘You could have done something,
But you didn’t try.
You didn’t do nothing
You let him walk by.
‘Now everyone knows how much
We needed that dude.
He wouldn’t have gone far away
If there’d been no feud.
‘Winchester Cathedral,
You’re bringing me down.
You stood and you watched as
Our Lumpo left town…’
[Apologies to the New Vaudeville Band, 1966.]
It’s good to read a clarification from the cathedral this morning that demonstrates what a scaremongering nonsense this headline was.
There’s to be more investment not less, and no cuts to traditional chorister education.
Perhaps those posting above will now retract their rants? I doubt it.
And just as there is no evidence for this story. So there is none for the other story about ndas and resignations. It’s all hype and gossip.
In my opinion, the biggest danger to British music is snobs badmouthing each other.
Not telling lies is not the same as telling the truth.
The cathedral’s recent statement on Facebook says disturbingly little about what they are actually planning. It’s essentially a fluff piece in an attempt to make the problem go away.
The lack of detail from anyone on this matter says to me that NDAs have indeed been signed, against the express orders of the Archbishop of Canterbury who, the last time I checked, was the head of the crumbling Church of England.
The Church of England once the nation’s moral compass is now the Church Where Just About Anything Goes. A Woke Joke.