God’s work: Musicians recoil from Winchester Dean
NewsWe have received outraged responses from musicians to a Facebook sermon by the Dean of Winchester, the Very Revd Catherine Ogle, in which she promises that ‘choral music will be at the heart of all that we do.’
She acknowledges ‘that with significant staff changes at this time there is some anxiety among some people about the future direction of choral music at Winchester Cathedral.
She appears to mean the dismissal of the Director of Music under a vow of silence and the departure of other musicians.
The Dean now promises to ‘invest’ in restoring a full complement of musicians.
No mention is made of bullying allegations against the Precentor.
The kindest responses to the Dean’s speech so far are ‘hypocrisy’ and ‘complete BS’. But that may be a biased musical view.
Yet again honeyed weasel words, attempting to paper over ever widening cracks, becoming chasms, presumably attempting to protect incoming revenue, rather than its own staff.
Completely ignores:
A) The bullying of two Musicians in recent years, and others being in fear of being harassed if they speak out.
B) The resignation of the current superb Director of Music due to extreme bullying and intolerable working conditions.
C) The failure of Dean and Chapter to recognise or take action to eradicate the proven bullying. Effectively lying by collusion of silence.
D) The fact that good, and excellent musicians are so deeply mistrusting of the current regime at Winchester, that it will be hard to restore the complement of musicians. Perhaps that is precisely what the accountants running the place of worship actually intend…
Have I missed anything?
Do please add anything…
Sounds like the current situation in the LSO – bullying, frightened to speak out, harassment, acute ageism. Seems the current fashion in high functioning woke organisations.
Pity there isn’t a nunnery to which Sister Catherine could be sent.
Just as worthy of an Olympic Gold for bovine excrement as are the outpourings of the leaders of our major parties in the forthcoming general election circus.
The Precentor (or any of the other cleyrg) can only behave in that manner with the support of their line managers and as the Dean of the organisation the buck stops with her. She cannot, surely, claim to be ignorant of his actions. One might claim he is only pulling the trigger – presumably she holds and points the weapon. As such her position is completely untenable.
There was a time when a minister of the church was someone to be trusted, and who could be relied on as a voice of fairness and honesty.
Why have we reached the point that being economical with the truth is not only a normal part of the role, but appears to be a specialist are of senior clergy.
Don’t they realise that part of the crisis being faced by the church is that they have been repeatedly dishonest and lost the trust of ordinary people. Yet they stand up and give sermons on morality. What a sad irony.
Did the Right Revd Ogre get there on her own merits or was she the beneficiary of a quota system?
Hard to “invest” when you have five lay clerk vacancies and not a single advert out, have barely tried to recruit lay clerks, and haven’t spent a single penny on chorister recruitment in 5 years.
Exactly. The Dean should be asked to set a date by when she will have recruited “a full complement of choristers and lay clerks”.
Surprise, surprise. The Dean is in complete denial and is clearly oblivious to the feelings of some of her congregation. This latest stomach churning and insincere twaddle will do her or the church no good at all, rather it will encourage the outrage that is now gaining momentum.
Dolores Umbridge
Anagram of Catherine Ogle….
“antechoir glee”
Ok, anti choir glee would be better, but homophonically i suppose it works!
You homophone!
Would you like a cup of tea ?
With a dash of Obadiah Slope.
Or Dolores Umbrage
The lay clerks have been silenced and are not allowed to speak out.
All the more reason to keep what they are experiencing to the forefront.
I would hope that NL would give any whistle-blowers amongst the lay clerks an assurance of anonymity.
Here’s part of the Dean’s welcome from the cathedral website:
“Those who built this cathedral sought to stop us in our tracks and bring us to our knees in awe.”
Well, madam Dean I am well and truly stopped!
God save us from these priestesses.
Sorry but this is just a stupid, ignorañt comment. Shame on you.
Total bullshit. She says want people want to hear, while not having the guts to take on the bully, Andy Trenier, who is responsible for the NDA and getting rid of one of the most respected and musical Directors of Music in the country. As well as the Assistant Director of Music 2 years ago. 7 Lay clerks left out of 12. Get rid of Trenier. Why has he not already been defrocked? He’s not fit for any church anywhere.
What does it take to get rid of the Very Revd Dean? Can the King certify her a superfluous or does the A. of C. have to sign off?
Very interesting that a highly critical thread with serious allegations on Twitter (sorry – I refuse to call it X) was, initially on the Winchester Cathedral Twitter page (at least it was at 8.30am this morning) but has now been removed. I believe that the Cathedral has done the same on Facebook too, although I don’t do FB so cannot vouch for that. This public outcry (about the workplace environment – not the new ‘vision’ for the choral foundation) has been going on for a month now, and still no-one in the Cathedral management – clergy or otherwise – has made any attempt to address this, either in the forums where it has been raised (including the national press) or, it seems, internally. Everyone knows about it. Isn’t it time for transparency and honesty? As I said in another thread on SD, this silence is deafening. Without addressing this, it just is getting worse and worse. I know for a fact that there are various posts on different social media platforms all about this are being deleted almost immediately. The Cathedral’s social media officer seems to be working overtime (although, no doubt, not being paid the overtime rate…)
Interesting article from a former chorister at Winchester:
https://thecritic.co.uk/what-future-for-winchester-cathedral-choir/
Just tell the truth.
Whatever the real issues are, you would be better off sharing them with the wider community rather than continuing to lie, deceive, twist facts and generally come across as insincere.
Better still, how about you involve the wider community and ask them how they feel before making such enormous changes to hundreds of years of tradition.
Honesty and integrity, not hypocrisy, are the qualities we need to see from church leaders, not silence and a load of guff. That is, if you want to attract new members to the church rather than drive existing members away.
“Just tell the truth” is a worthy sentiment, but unfortunately the people who are at fault in situations like this are skilled at constructing an alternative version of “the truth”. Just look at the Horizon and infected blood scandals.
Moreover, the ringleaders are often also willing to aggressively defend that fake truth in a way which makes their colleagues and peers reluctant to challenge them. That’s why exchanges such as that between Vennells and Moya Green (“I think you knew”) are so important.
We also know from Horizon that publicity, such as a TV series like “Mr Bates and the Post Office”, is a good way to highlight shameful behaviour. Maybe concerned members of the congregation could make their feelings known by turning their backs on the Precentor if he ever appears again to preach in the Cathedral. I’d be happy to join such a silent protest.
Long before the current situation with the DoM this process was begun with the reasoning of it being a cost cutting exercise. I would be keen to see the cathedral accounts as to whether they have saved money and what cost the current situation is having upon the accounts. I’m sure that those who put their hand in their pocket on a weekly basis might also be keen to know.
Where’s Henry II when you need him?
I doubt we can expect the ailing C3 to act, but I wager the PoW would do it.
The person giving the thumbs down to these posts is either the precentor or one of his lackeys or a complete numpty ( or all of these). Just waiting for this to get a thumbs down as well!
After some 40 years as both a church organist and cathedral lay clerk precentor and having served under at least two dozen different clergy during that period, I can say that, in all honesty, I could count on the fingers of one hand those that have genuinely and truly appreciated the value of music in worship and invested their total commitment and support for it. Otherwise, it has proved an exercise in almost perpetual frustration, so this latest debacle at Winchester Cathedral comes as no surprise whatsoever. A sorry conclusion to a distinguished career for Andrew Lumsden, but I’m sure he’ll come to look upon his departure as a blessing in disguise in due course, particularly in light of the total misdirection the church now appears to be taking, and the enhanced opportunities it will afford him in freelance work, freed from the onerous administrative burdens that inevitably form a substantial part of the cathedral organist role.
Maybe it’s time to inaugurate the Paula Vennells Award for acts of special notoriety in the Corporate Leadership of the Church.
The Dean is a disgrace and should resign. She is responsible for the bullying environment and culture created within the cathedral
Talking of senior clergy bullying their subordinates, my colleague and fellow worker, who was a youth worker in Exeter (St Paul’s, Burntwood Lane,) died “Suddenly and unexpectedly” of a “Massive drug overdose” [entry on death certificate] exactly 25 years ago, on 19th June. Perhaps the Dean could arrange for the newly re-constituted choir and its director to perform a Requiem for the repose of my late colleague’s soul.
There’s also a terrible irony/lack of foresight when, in the wake of NDAs they play Bairstow’s ‘Let all Mortal Flesh Keep Silence’ underneath the closing remarks of this video.
The Dean’s Facebook talk demonstrated very clearly that she could teach a great deal about simpering insincerity.
Now that the C of E is not so much All Gas and Gaiters as a mixture of Mein Kampf and The Well of Loneliness, we have to wonder how much longer the Diocese of Winchester will continue to exist, let alone employ anybody. Congregations are shrinking rapidly in the UK (and Australia), so outside Africa there is real concern that the C of E itself is going to simply disappear.
Is this an instance of “not fit for purpose” the British like to certify?
It’s interesting that the Precentor of Winchester, who was down to preside and preach at the 11am Eucharist today, is now doing neither. I wonder why…?
According to the cathedral’s website, the Precentor “has particular responsibility for the organisation, development and delivery of the liturgy and music of the Cathedral and the support of the Cathedral’s congregations.” If he persists in withdrawing from his duties, he could presumably be accused of failing to deliver his contractual obligations.
The Cathedral’s own service listing on the website still shows the Dean as President and Canon Roly Riem as preaching. In the event, he did both, and there was no sign of the Precentor… Chapter also had one of their regular ‘Away days’ yesterday it is believed. Dare we hope?
I attended evensong on Thursday for corpus Christi. The choir was the chamber choir, local singers, mentioned on website but unsure if on payroll, I haven’t looked at the accounts. The Dean was there for the service and vanished at the end – disapparated may be a more accurate term. Apart from my collection money, the cathedral lost out on my admission money the following day for the sightseeing. Not a fortifying experience.
The Chamber Choir is one of the Cathedral Voluntary Choirs, ably directed by Joshua Stephens. They are not on staff and are not paid. They are an excellent group of semi-pro Singers.
This ghastly bit of self-promotion and duplicitous hypocrisy by Ms.Ogle underlines exactly why the Anglican Church and its great musical tradition is being betrayed by the current generation of self-serving managerial clergy. That Andrew Lumsden has been forced out after 22 distinguished years is a matter that will haunt Winchester Cathedral for generations. This disgusting Dean and her ilk do not deserve to be served by musicians of such exceptional calibre and should themselves be swept out of office unceremoniously.
What sort of broom does an Ogre require? A bundle of birch twigs?
The Anglican Church is in terminal decline and the ordination of women with poor leadership from the Archbishop is responsible in my opinion. Music is often the first target of so called progressives and this seems to be evident in Winchester.
I cannot see any remedy now and it appears probable that Islam will become predominant
In my town non C of E Bible believing Churches are doing extremely well. The C of E has no clear Gospel message. That is why it is in decline. It loathes the the edicts of the God it is supposed to serve.
Seems to sum up the C of E in general!
A former, eminent Anglican priest, whom I chanced to meet professionally a few days ago, suggested that senior figures, especially Deans, in cathedrals and colleges, were merely an outlet for the view, coming from the very top, that excellent choral foundations “were an expensive irrelevance”. It is an increasingly credible theory.
A former, eminent Anglican priest, whom I chanced to meet professionally a few days ago, suggested that senior figures, especially Deans, in cathedrals and colleges, were merely an outlet for the view, coming from the very top, that excellent choral foundations “were an expensive irrelevance”. It is an increasingly credible theory.