Germans drop NY musician
NewsThe ARD competition has sacked Liang Wang, principal oboe of the New York Philharmonic, from its jury.
The starement reads:
In view of the ongoing discussion centred on the person of Liang Wang, the management of the ARD Music Competition has decided to suspend collaboration with him until further notice.
Liang Wang has been named, together with Matthew Muckey, in connection with the alleged rape of a former colleague in July 2010. Both are temporarily suspended from the orchestra.
Like I said.
setting dangerous precedent.
Sheep behavior from ARD. No independent thinking.
What did he even do? There is no proof he did anything. We need more information.
Here’s proof: Wang has never sued Kizer for defamation.
Wouldn’t you if a co-worker falsely and publicly accused you of rape?
Well, not him, because he knows if he sued he’d open up a Pandora’s box of legal troubles for himself, like making self-incriminating statements under oath that can be used against him in a criminal prosecution.
You’re not paying attention. The proof is copious and exhaustively fact-checked. There is literal DNA evidence.
There is no DNA evidence for Liang Wang.
If LW did nothing, maybe Matthew Muckey will have the decency to stand up to say “It was all me.” Which the DNA shows it was. If LW did not aid and abet somehow, Muckey is more than welcome to step forward and try to exonerate his friend.
Documentation from the Vail Police Dept. and Colorado’s Fifth Judicial DA would disagree. That Cara had the strength to come forward with this, essentially dissolving her professional and personal life in the process, for people like you to brush her aside speaks to how the classical music industry is quick to silence derision and hostility for the sake of keeping the peace. If what ARD and Taipei have done in response to these allegations is “sheep behavior”, then the words and actions of the NY Phil are predatory.
Hiding anonymously and asking “what did he even do”? Go pound sand!
Did you read the recent New York Magazine story about this? If not, I strongly suggest you read it before jumping to a conclusion. Thanks.
Nope. Nope nope nope nope.
Any attempts to minimize the facts of the story or the allegations are what CONTINUES a dangerous and long-standing precedent of sweeping things under the rug.
tampon? seriously?
And the really sickening thing is that even if someone came forward and it was proved that Wang was completely innocent, the venom-spitting feminists and their beta orbiters will just say, “Oh well,” and go about their day. They can collectively ruin a life yet are not held accountable at all.
Trumpard bull….So far, the two creeps ruined a life and are not held accountable at all… thanks to misogynistic whiners like you…
You may feel entitled to more information, but they have all the information they need.
We have already enough information. At least those who want it.Period.
It is reported that he spiked the woman’s drink, making him n accessory to the act, if true. This was a freelance engagement by LW, so the ARD are perfectly entitled to cancel him without following the due process rules required for sacking employees. ‘For the time being’ also means that they could engage him again, if he is exonerated.
No, it was NOT reported that LW spiked the drink. She said LW handed her the drink, but LW says he didn’t. But, even if he did hand it to her, that doesn’t guarantee he’s the one who spiked it. Muckey could have handed it to LW to pass to her, and LW wasn’t necessarily informed that it had been spiked.
It is well known you must associate with everyone until you get a criminal conviction. There is no middle ground.
Well, since you don’t know how to read police reports or how to read articles that contain police reports or perhaps you are just someone who supports people who assault women?
Let’s coalesce a few of the nuances here:
1)
“When they got to Muckey’s condo, he and Wang got in the hot tub and tried to persuade Kizer to join them, but she declined. Kizer alleged that Wang brought her a glass of red wine. Wang later told the police that Kizer got her own wine.” (Colorado, by the way: “Date rape is charged as felony sexual assault in Colorado. However, drug or alcohol-induced rape may result in more severe criminal penalties…”)
So: A woman goes to have a drink with male colleagues who both casually. . . . climb into a hot tub and invite you into the SAME hot tub, expecting you be prepared to do so wearing what exactly? . . . . . your clothes? just your underwear? with nothing on at all? with the “oh wait let me pull out the spare bikini I carry around randomly for just this type of unexpected hot tub invitation with my male colleagues?” She smartly declines, but she does drink a glass of wine.
2)
If Wang had nothing to do with this – where is the statement from 2010 that says “Wang insists he watched Kizer drink a glass of wine, and then left the condo at x o-clock.” WHERE IS THAT STATEMENT? Where is Wang’s air-tight alibi for where he was the rest of the evening, and who saw him, or when he got back to “his hotel” if he also did NOT stay the night at “Mucky’s condo”. Because . . . I don’t know . . the first thing most innocent people do if accused of being at a place where a colleague is accused of committing a rape that one had nothing to do with and was not even there is to start to prove it with a written statement to the police about exactly what they know, where one was, and a timeline of those events. (Mucky and Wang were “best friends” – Mucky’s words).
3)
Wang was there long enough to be in the hot tub.
Wang was also there long enough to know that Kizer defiantly drank that wine.
And even though Mucky and Wang apparently signed NDA’s regarding this whole issue, so getting any more out of them might be impossible . . . you know who didn’t? John Clune, an “attorney who specializes in sexual-abuse cases and a former employee of the Fifth Judicial District Attorney’s Office”, who made the following comment:
“It looks very predatory, when you have a woman who, by all accounts, is a very straightlaced, happily married woman and suddenly she’s incredibly intoxicated to the point where she’s puking and passing out in their condo when there are seemingly sober individuals,” Clune said.
“seemingly sober individualS”> >>>>WITH AN “S”.
PLURAL, people. PLURAL.
WANG WAS THERE WHEN KIZER PASSED OUT? If so, how much longer did he stay?
4)
WHY as one of two women in one of the most competitive orchestras in the world would you, during your tenure process, RISK YOUR ENTIRE MUSICAL CAREER, your personal and professional reputation, and your marriage if this was all a lie and it really was consensual. She told her husband, her friend, and in the afternoon went to the rehearsal venue and reported it to the personnel manager. She then put herself into a police vehicle, went to a police station, and made a statement. She got a restraining order. This woman is speaking with her actions; while a man is saying “the woman said “no thanks” to a splash in the hot tub with two colleagues but “yes thanks” to sex with a tampon in her with me.” (Just a quick fyi for any gents in the room who don’t know: Sex with a tampon not only blocks the pleasure a woman might receive, it actually causes pain and can be dangerous to a woman’s sexual health. No woman “wants” this.) And by the way, there was DNA ON THE TAMPON, suggesting it was UNPROTECTED SEX. What story did Wang tell the next day? What story did Mucky tell that next day? Because you’re no hero telling your brass brothers – “see that girl there – I had unprotected sex with her while she still had a tampon inside of her and she was throwing up so much I had to wash her shirt but it was totally consensual even though she wouldn’t even get in the hot tub.” And the only reason I can come up with as to why woman has unprotected sex while leaving a tampon inside of herself while throwing up after one glass of wine? >> Maybe, just maybe, she isn’t in a condition to say “no” or to take out the tampon.
So people who are capable of seeing some very concerning lines in the entire picture have decided that in the next immediate months they don’t want these two men mixing in their communities, their orchestras, their festivals, or teaching their students.
Finally.
I hear that in Chinese ‘liang wang’ means ‘three and a half inches’
Sounds like a personal experience, please do share more! (even if you’ve got less)
And ‘lang lang’ means ‘seven inches’
I honestly wonder what’s going through the minds of Wang and Muckey right now. Is it nerve-wracking/rattling to be onstage with so much hostility surrounding you? If I were them, particularly Muckey, I think I would just call it a day and live in humble seclusion and repentance (if guilty).
What would go through their minds when the audience boos as Mr. Wang plays the orchestra A, or when either he has a highlighted solo passage within an overture or other composition? They will be fortunate to avoid the stage as well as any courtroom.
It’s interesting to read that statement about LW having always treated his colleagues, respectably and professionally. There are many of us in the field that know this is laughable, considering he has probably been one of the most disrespectful people that has ever come in contact with these professional organizations. Like John Mack used to say, “wishing it, won’t make it so.“
The rapist are usually friendly when they hunt predators, same as the serial killer.
While I don’t have any sympathy for them if they did what the article alleges – and it certainly rings far more plausible than the idea that a female colleague willingly had sex with one of them and then instead of calling it a bad decision claimed rape, you do have to think that these guys stand to lose everything – aside from money. They did already; when fired in 2018 I imagine nobody touched them. Now, with a lot more notoriety, definitely nobody will for a long time. Even if they leave with enough money to live comfortably for life.
On the other hand, I don’t think enough has been made of the situation from Cara Kizer’s standpoint: A colleague – who was on her tenure committee – raped her after his colleague and friend drugged her – and then either left her to be victimized or stayed to watch and/or assist; bad either way. When she sought recourse her colleagues in the orchestra (in the brass section, even) threatened her career and that of the one person who stood up for her, eventually denied them both tenure – which without this incident they might have done strictly on musical grounds but we will never know. In the short term she had to play with them in the orchestra – while their friends were helping them obstruct the pursuit of justice – finding out that many of their colleagues who they may have considered friends were in fact a bunch of cretins. And then the orchestra, instead of taking action, paid them to go away. Depriving both of likely the biggest job they’ll ever have. Furhtermore, it seems likely that Kizer’s playing suffered as a result of the assault and that the trauma of all this contributed to the failure of her marriage several years later.
Meanwhile, the current blowback notwithstanding, the two alleged perpetrators have remained members in good standing of the Philharmonic for 12 of the past 14 years.
I think the reporter and Vulture deserve a huge thanks, for reporting a story that remained under wraps far too long; this is what journalism is supposed to do. And hopefully bring some change to HR policies, labor agreements, and at least in orchestras, to the tenure process.
This is great news. A competition like this is a place where young people should feel safe.
You’d be safe anyway if you didn’t go out drinking with him.
Or if he didn’t drug and rape you! That would be an option, too.
With all due respect to those finding fault in the process and claiming that those accused must be innocent (in the absence of being found “guilty” through some sort of legally-binding procedure) – the original independent investigation into the allegations appears to have been quite exhaustive (including the discovery of an earlier rape allegation against Muckey and unrelated allegations of sexual misconduct against Wang). It was only after the completion of this six-month inquiry, which included interviews with 22 individuals and a review of “extensive documentary evidence” that the accusations deemed creditable which warranted their dismissal as the appropriate course of action.
In other words, there is far more incriminating evidence to these matters than what the NY Phil has publicly disclosed to date. And, unfortunately, the NDAs and financial compensation packages that have been negotiated document their clear intention to keep things that way. Meanwhile, Muckey and Wang continue to remain silent regarding these accusations which continue to present grave threats to their reputations and livelihoods. Through its subsequent actions, at some point the NY Phil had a clear intention to bury this matter, which begs the a reasonable question: what else might they be hiding?
Socializing with coworkers anytime after midnight or even 11pm could land you in trouble via guilt by association. Jury and judge is now the gossip pages. Better not to, make friends in other lines of work through hobbies and keep it professional with colleagues. I have no way of knowing what happened, the evidence is inconclusive, people will “believe” or “not believe”.
It’s always remarkable how defences of such awful actions rely on hilariously innocuous descriptions of the accusations.
They’re not accused of “socializing after 11pm”. Come on.
They are performing musicians. Their work shift doesn’t end until 10:30. Of course they socialize after 11:00
The evidence is pretty conclusive: If a woman is too drunk or incapacitated to remember to remove her tampon before having sex, she’s too drunk or incapacitated to consent.
My fascination with your work is equal to the enthusiasm you have expressed. The sketch you have presented is elegant, and the material you have authored is of a high caliber. Yet, it seems you are apprehensive that you may be embarking on something that could be seen as questionable. I believe you will be able to resolve this issue efficiently.
Wang & Muckey…..sounds like a Vaudeville Act are done in music. No orchestra, or festival will touch them and no parent will want them teaching their students, especially their daughters. Burger flipping time.
er, I wouldn’t eat a burger they prepared, definitely not a drink they handed me
The only clarity to emerge from these comments: The desire to express oneself emotionally about the accused or the accusers (or what each represents to the commenters’ minds) is far stronger than the desire to contemplate the difficulties of arriving at certainty when people contradict each other on grave matters.
I’m sure they can use him on the prison talent show committee hopefully soon.