Pianists give their views on applause between movements

Pianists give their views on applause between movements

News

norman lebrecht

July 26, 2023

An interesting thread is developing on Twitter.

 Yuliya Gorenman adds on Facebook: ‘I don’t mind it at all and kind of expect it when the music clearly calls for it, for example at the end of the first movement of Tchaikovsky’s Piano concerto No. 1.
It fact, to be horrified of it and show visible displeasure smacks of some kind of pretentious snobbism.’

Comments

  • Max Raimi says:

    Classical music has a death wish; we seem to be trying to drive audiences away. Has there ever been another performing arts discipline in history that strives so mightily to make people feel like idiots for showing their appreciation?

    • Sue Sonata Form says:

      Spontaneous applause is part of opera and ballet, but I’m not sure it’s appropriate for larger scale orchestral works or recitals. As an audience member I prefer to concentrate on the music rather than the ‘gratitude’ for a job well done by the performer.

      Clapping opera singers is a ritual from the days of Handel and the rise of the diva, for whom Handel specifically wrote his difficult arias. These were meant to be show-pieces which highlighted the performers’ skills.

      Beethoven didn’t write his works to demonstrate musicians’ skills.

      • Genius Repairman says:

        Sue Sonata, no I think Beethoven did not have performers in front of his mind when he composed but I think he would have appreciated applause of his music! First movements in particular often seem to demand applause. When a composer in the Romantic era does not want applause they have the movements run together or have the movement end very quietly like a hush.

      • Carl says:

        Beethoven participated in “piano duels” with other pianists in his younger years in Vienna. Granted, these were often improvised, but he was a complete showman and understood the rules of showbiz.

        I’m sure he was used to not only spontaneous applause but people chattering, eating, drinking and even gambling during his performances. It’s only in the modern era that concert halls have resembled funeral homes.

        • Netty Meelen says:

          When Beethoven was performing on the piano, he stoppen playing when people were talking or even whispering. He closed the piano ran awy and never came back.
          I think Beethoven was the first performer who demand totall silence from his audiances.

          • Genius Repairman says:

            Netty that was a particular case when he was being exploited and treated as a servant.

          • Victoria Ward says:

            Definitely, good old Beethoven.
            No applause between movements for goodness sake have some respect it’s a complete piece of music be it three or four movents.

        • Sue Sonata Form says:

          I’ve never regarded them as funeral homes, but if they are then I’ll know I’m already in heaven.

      • Max Raimi says:

        Beethoven first gained fame as a piano virtuoso. There are innovations of piano technique in the earliest sonatas and concertos that were clearly intended as a showcase for his own virtuosity.

        In any case, who cares? Do you propose an even more elaborate protocol for classical music concerts, wherein we somehow determine whether the composer “intended” to “demonstrate musicians’ skills” (rather like the current Supreme Court holding their seances with Madison and Monroe before inevitably siding with the privileged and powerful) before allowing people to applaud a particular movement or concerto?

        • Genius Repairman says:

          Dear Max Raimi, perhaps there could be an announcement at particular concerts whether applause between movements is appropriate in this case.

    • Luiz F. says:

      You couldn’t be more right than this. Classical music powerminds and intellectuals are what is destroying this industry. Ticket sales continue to go down, while searches for classical music and streaming go up. Can people stop to realize that the problems are the orchestral managements, and the “intellectualized” audiences? When the very bottom of our social skill chart is taking control of the venues where we perform our most heart-felt art form, we know we have a serious problem to deal with.

    • Sally says:

      Te so right! A few years ago, I invited a friend to Beethoven’s Eroica. He loved it enthusiastically applauded each movement. He got some stares, and he told me he hated it.

    • rudy says:

      please note that unexpected applause can ruin the performer’s ability to concentrate.it happened to mev during my Premier Prix exam and it was awful…
      and when Sandra Radavnovsky gave her debut recital in Mexico City, most of the audience shouted bravi and gavem her a loud ovation…in the middle of ‘Ah, perfido’….
      SHAME

  • Another Orchestral Musician says:

    Makes perfect sense, to be honest.

  • Zarathusa says:

    I’ve always said : “If you truly appreciate the effort, applaud!” After all, don’t singers expect their momentous arias to be applauded and “bravoed”? And besides, it helps to wake your hands up when they fall asleep!

  • Simon says:

    Obviously, Twitter’s last gasp before X…

  • SVM says:

    Amid our fast-moving and noisy world, the value of silence and focus is often overlooked. Live performance is a rare opportunity to reduce distractions to the minimum humanly possible. Many concertgoers will have endured a gauntlet of noise to travel to the concert, and face the prospect of more during the return journey. Applause between movements detracts from the capacity to appreciate the sound and resonance of the musical work as a whole. Moreover, when applause becomes so frequent, its rhetorical power is diminished into a tedious cliché. Having applause after every work in the programme (especially if the programme happens to comprise several relatively short works) is already too much.

    • A.L. says:

      I could have not said it better. Hear Hear! The sound of silence is priceless. Any musician worth his or her salt will know how to respect and, in fact, know how to play written silences in scores. For they mean so much.

    • Emil says:

      Counterpoint: a concert is a communal experience of people coming together to appreciate music. If you don’t want to share in that collective experience you might as well stay home with a stereo player.

      • SVM says:

        A “communal experience” can and should include “communal silence” — indeed, many rituals and traditions around the world practise silence in communal settings extensively. But in any case, I go to concerts to hear *live* music played in a space optimised for performance — whilst stereo players are an impressive technology, the immediacy of hearing a real performance, with all the associated risks and uncertainty, is simply incomparable.

      • Sue Sonata Form says:

        That’s the problem, Emil; most people are doing precisely that.

        Nothing can replace the live performance. Nothing.

      • Anthony Sayer says:

        @Emil: Yes, but you don’t have to interrupt it.

    • Mecky Messer says:

      Boy….

      You must be the life of the parties whenever you decide to come out of the 19th century estate you live in….

      Thankfully us mortals actually have a life…

      whew!

      • SVM says:

        Do I really have a secluded grace and favour 19th-century estate of which I have, to date, been wholly ignorant? Methinks that, if this be so, said estate must have been purloined by the butler. Perhaps, Mecky Messer could furnish assistance to reclaim it…

    • Billy says:

      Yes. Exactly. It’s like the way basketball players now have to slap each other after every free throw – even after a miss. Adds 10 minutes to the game.

    • Warrick says:

      At a recent concert some of the audience applauded after the first movement of a symphony. Naturally that interrupted the overall flow of the symphony. The conductor turned to the audience and said, in effect, in my country if you applaud after a movement it means you would like that movement to be repeated. Is that what you want?!

  • Paul Wells says:

    I like the convention of silence between movements, but of course many audiences will have some people who aren’t familiar with such a counterintuitive idea as refraining from applause when the orchestra stops playing. There’s no need to be rude. I’ve seen Yefim Bronfman, more than once, get up from the piano bench and bow if even a couple of people clap between movements. It’s polite and charming of him to acknowledge what’s intended as a compliment.

  • 88 says:

    Roughly 90% of the concerts that I play are now sensory-friendly and family-friendly. I realize this is not the norm and that I work in this field. In these formats, audience needs and exuberance are welcome and recognized. I’ve had children exclaim in delight during pieces – that kind of excitement and wonder from a child is pure magic and I’ll take it at every occurrence 🙂

    • Bone says:

      Seven people (so far) downvoted your comment.
      There are some unhappy people in this world who would benefit from attending one of your sensory- and family-friendly concerts.
      I prefer quiet and traditional, but your concert design seems to better accommodate the younger audiences. Bravo!

  • Mecky Messer says:

    I guess NL has not gotten the memo Twitter doesn’t exist anymore. Its called X

    I guess either the horse carriage with the news has not arrived yet …or is it a telegram cable? Life in the 19th century is tough, indeed….

    • Jules says:

      The tweets NL quoted were pre- x.

      • Mecky Messer says:

        If you have USED the app, or knew how the internet worked, you’d realize once a brand changes it automatically updates the entire app experience.

        This aint your 1950’s New York Times newspaper cut when classical music was still relevant.

        Some people are so hopelessly outdated it’s mindblowing.

        Just WOW…

    • Michael says:

      What about the Twixt[t]ers?

    • Donald Hansen says:

      Have you ever in your life said anything positive? Probably not.

      • Mecky Messer says:

        **The Titanic is literally sinking, there’s not enough lifeboats, its freezing cold**

        “Have you ever said anything positive? Probably not”

        Nice stars!

  • David K. Nelson says:

    The real problem is that after those movements that all but cry out for applause but get none, because the audience has been cowed into submission, you DON’T get “stony silence” but rather an interval of nervous coughs, program book shuffling and chatter that only ends when the next movement begins (if then). Much better I think to get 15 seconds of applause and THEN silence.

    • Genius Repairman says:

      David K Nelson that is very true. After the final blast of a first movement a couple of people think they ought to clap then stop, a few shuffle and cough, there are a couple who exclaim “wow” and the like and a few coughs echo out.

  • Steve Rogers says:

    So nice to see these great performers like it,

  • drummerman says:

    If someone applauds in between movements, that usually means that they are newcomers to classical music. That’s a good thing! The soloist (or conductor) merely has to nod to the audience, which expresses his/her appreciation. After a while the “newbies” will stop applauding.

  • Robin Blick says:

    It’s a populist British thing, especially at Proms…wanting to ‘get involved’. Rarely if ever heard at concerts in Europe, where audiences are much more sophisticated.

    • Amsterdam says:

      Not true at all. Go to the Concertgebouw and you’ll see the Dutch often clap between movements and ALWAYS give a standing ovation, no matter the quality.

      Next time don’t be so certain about things you don’t know…

      • Hornbill says:

        Standing ovations? In the Netherlands?? Heaven help anyone in the second row or behind – the Dutch are the tallest people in Europe

    • Emil says:

      There has been applause between movements at every concert I’ve been at in Berlin, except possibly Winterreise. And four cellphones in a single concert at the Konzerthaus Berlin. So much for sophisticated audiences.

  • Matias says:

    Yes, booing is so much more sophisticated.

  • John Evans says:

    Back in the day, those in charge of Bath Abbey operated a strict ban on any applause whatsoever after the end of concert performances (e.g. of Handel’s Messiah).

    • Hornbill says:

      Not just Bath. There was often some nervousness about applauding in a church, especially for a sacred work like a Mass. Seemed like some sort of sacrilege.

    • Sue Sonata Form says:

      Fortunately Wagner kept all his musical feathers numbered for just such an emergency – composing his operas without cadences and denying audiences the opportunities for applause mid-stream.

    • Mjuy says:

      Händel, please. Even if he relocated to London, he was German

  • SlippedChat says:

    Applause after a particularly rousing movement of a larger piece doesn’t bother me at all. I’ve done it myself, and I’ve never seen a performer react churlishly in response to this kind of mid-work appreciation. Stephen Hough gives several good examples. The end of the march in the Tchaikovsky Sixth is a natural place to applaud, before the final movement takes us on a musical journey through anguish and death.

    What really DOES irritate me, now for many years–and I say this with the caveat that I’m observing U.S. audiences but don’t know if the phenomenon is also prevalent in the U.K.–is the tendency to give a standing ovation at the end of EVERY work except the overture which began the concert. Actually, it’s not even a “tendency,” it’s now a habit, i.e., any exceptions are just that: exceptions.

    If everything gets a standing ovation, then no performance is truly special compared to any other. (I’m reminded of the humorous U.S. radio program, “A Prairie Home Companion,” set in a fictional Midwest town where “all the children are above-average.”) . . . Many are the times when I’ve stayed in my seat while applauding vigorously for a very fine, though not cataclysmically-great-for-the-ages, performance–but then, of course, the people standing so automatically and predictably also force the rest of us to stand if we have any hope of seeing the performers taking their bows.

    • Paul Brownsey says:

      I have a lot of sympathy with what you say about standing ovations. I wonder if one factor in their emergence as routine has been talent shows on TV, where the producers want a shot of a whole audience rising to its feet as one. So a new generation thinks that applause involves standing up. It’s a pity they never seem to think how inconsiderate it is of those behind.

    • Sue Sonata Form says:

      I love the rhythmic clap of the French and the Russians. Don’t know if other countries have adopted this ritual.

  • Paul Dawson says:

    I’m old-school and do not applaud between movements, although I have no problem with those who do.

    My real bugbear is automatic standing ovations at the end. I moved to the US in 2005. I don’t know if this is a function of geography or time, but I don’t recall a single performance here which did not result in a standing ovation.

    Is there a stage of approval beyond standing ovation of which I am unaware?

    • Anthony says:

      Yes there is. Whooping.

      • Crusader Rabbit says:

        I hate having to stand only because everyone in front of me is doing so. I try to do it only when the music propels me to my feet. However, after a truly remarkable performance I am often a whooper. And after a recent Nielsen Fourth in St. Louis, Missouri, I went totally and shamelessly berserk!

    • rudy says:

      the only time i saw an audience NOT GIVING a standing ovation in the USA was after Ivo Pogorelich recital in Wheaton College, in the outskirsts of Chicago, the audience disliked his performance and I was the only one giving him a standing ovation, next to a grandma….

  • Harold Clarkson says:

    Sir Roger Norrington always pointed out that during the classical era of Mozart , Haydn and Beethoven audiences frequently clapped between movements and noone thought anything of it. In fact there was so much applause after the slow movement of Beethoven 7 at the premiere that it was immediately repeated. Roger encouraged applause between movements, felt it was appropriate.

  • Andrew Tunis says:

    Some musicians will insist that clapping between movements somehow breaks the unity of a multi-movement work. And yet these same musicians will applaud wildly an aria in the middle of an opera, which truly does interfere with the dramatic unity. This convention really makes no sense, but is rather just a signal to show that one is sophisticated enough to know when one is “expected” to applaud, and to feel somehow superior to those that applaud at the wrong time.

    • Emil says:

      Indeed. It’s not uncommon for orchestras to retune between movements of these large symphonies, and conductors routinely make a 1-2 minute break. How is short applause any more ‘disruptive’ than a retuning?

    • Sue Sonata Form says:

      There’s a difference – for me at least – between a performance in a theatre and a recital and symphony. Don’t forget, there’s also a symphony orchestra in the performing arts and these are only acknowledged right at the end, and seldom seen at all.

  • MarkOtt says:

    Who applauds between “die Sätze” of a Bruckner’s symphony (as an example)?
    The same ones who cheer, boo, whistle and loudly cackle at the end of it.
    Please, keep the uneducated ones out of our theatres.

  • niloiv says:

    It becomes a convention not to suppress people’s display of appreciation, but to make things organized. Sophisticated audience (surely includes the musicians mentioned in the thread) will find applauding after 1st movement of a romantic concerto justifiable, but what if a first time concert goer finds Mahler 9 3rd movement also worth showing his appreciation?
    I think it should be down to musician to decide, and maybe a short subtitle or announcement before the concert that if it’s welcome to applaud between movements?

  • Anthony Sayer says:

    I’m anti any applause until the end. I feel it disrupts the unity of a work and deprives us of those silences so important to the narrative which are that much more powerful after a rabble-rousing movement or aria, the March in Tchaikovsky’s Sixth being a case in point.

    Puccini didn’t want the dramatic flow of his works interrupted yet has consistently been overridden by audiences since his operas were premiered. Maybe he took it with good grace, I don’t know. One of the many glories if Wagner is the absence of applause until the end of an act (and even beyond, if a certain Parsifal-related practice is followed).

    • Emil says:

      Puccini wrote continuous music in most of his operas. Tchaikovsky symphonies have breaks between movements. It feels honestly odd to say ‘you shouldn’t be roused after a “rabble-rousing” movement’.

    • Guest says:

      That post-Parsifal Act 1 silence was most decidely NOT observed the other day in Bayreuth.

  • High-Note says:

    It’s all in the body-language: If you don’t want applause after a movement, don’t throw your hands high in the air on the last note!

  • Paul Carlile says:

    Personally i hate the noise between movements, interrupting the flow, the magic, but i respect those performers who acknowledge, with a nod or brief bow, those who applaud. For those who point out that it was common in Beethoven’s day, let’s note that circus acts, bawdy songs, magic tricks…. also interrupted symphonies, concertos, etc! Gradually, with increasing intelligence, culture awareness, thru Brahms, Bruckner, Mahler, Sibelius…..these diversions died out. So it should stay for pure music.

    Opera, until Wagner, had built-in moments for applause after brilliant arias; anything that touches theatre, ballet, etc, is a different animal anyway!

    Generalized applause after everything, even the most miserable interpretations (there are always fans, friends, family…), just banalizes and devalues the experience; same for the wretched universal standing ovations, often after pitiful performances, obliging everyone behind to follow suit (i never do!).

    There are certain famously problematic moments, Tchaik 6, 3rd movement (i saw Solti manage to keep them quiet!), one almost wonders if the composer threw down the gauntlet to challenge the conductors’ skill…!

    As to the pianists’ thread; i wonder how much Sir S Hough, M-A Hamelin & others would appreciate another famous “interruption” moment: just before the gliding chords preceding the coda of Chopin’s 4th Ballade. I have seen the turbulent passage with three emphatic chords (then pause), wildly applauded and cheered more than once, admittedly one time twas in the distunguish setting of the Parish Church of Piddlington-on-Crouch, where the disgusted performer got up and stalked off without finishing! (Probably glad to avoid facing the Coda!).

    • Guest says:

      “Gradually, with increasing intelligence, culture awareness, thru Brahms, Bruckner, Mahler, Sibelius…..these diversions died out.” Ouch. The audiences for Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven (to name only the best-known) were so much more stupid than us, we civilized, cultured people! How crass of Mozart to write even in the middle of movements passages calculated to bring the audience to its feet cheering and calling for an encore!

      If composers didn’t want applause between movements, they made them continuous (Mendelssohn, Schumann). The concept of cowed audiences, and composers and conductors demanding reverent silence until the very end, developed as part of German romanticism in the latter half of the nineteenth century. Time to throw off the shackles.

      If you want the experience of absolute silence between movements, listen to your CD or vinyl, don’t join in the communal experience of enjoying and appreciating great music.

  • Barry says:

    This is part of a wider problem of applauding almost everything. It seems to have more to do with putting on an attention grabbing performance than showing sincere appreciation.

    Applauding a funeral cortège now seems to be in vogue. What was wrong with a respectful silence?

  • Nurhan Arman says:

    For me to be gracious to the audience is a rule. I acknowledge it and quickly get ready for the next movement, which usually cuts the applause short. There are certain works that when they end, applause or any noise feels like such a violent interruption i.e. Tchai 6th, Shostakovich Chamber Symphony op. 110a.

  • Corno di Caccia says:

    Well, a recent performance of Beethoven 9 at the Proms earlier this month was ruined for me with an audience of the stupid applauding after every movement, not even allowing the music to finish. An audience which is made up of mainly Classic FM listeners these days have no conception of the form of a Sonata or Symphony as they’re not used to hearing complete performances of anything; only one movement at a time.

    • Hornbill says:

      Thankfully we had a different audience last night for the Halle’s Rachmaninov Bells and Shostakovich 5. No clapping at all, though plenty of coughing. At least there was total silence during the music. The Shosta in particular was magical.

  • TITUREL says:

    Yes, I always look forward to a hearty, boisterous round of applause after I finish the slow movement of the Hammerklavier.

  • Micaela Bonetti says:

    Yesterday evening, Verbier Festival, applause (yet timid) after 1st mvt Mozart’s 40th Symphony!
    Didn’t disturb me.
    By the way magnificent rendition of Verbier Festival Orchestra conducted by Mikhail Pletnëv (breathtakingly performing Rachmaninov’s 1st concerto after the interval. Conductor James Gaffigan.)

  • Netty Meelen says:

    Listening to Beethovens last pianosonata opus 111, I need silence, not applaus!

    • Emil says:

      You’ll see that if you listen to it at home on your stereo, there will be absolutely no applause. Enjoy.

  • Mock Mahler says:

    Reacting (or not) to applause between movements seems particularly awkward for pianists. The most elegant I’ve seen was Martha Argerich in a concerto, who turned her head, nodded with a smile, then calmly waited for the conductor. I’ve since seen Hough and others do the same thing.

    What hasn’t happened yet (that I’ve seen) but probably will, is for a pianist to stand up and bow between movements. I did see an Igor Levit recital where he intended to move between two Beethoven sonatas without a break. But he paused too long and applause began, so he did the stand-and-bow, rather gravely (which was appropriate for the music).

  • Joel Kemelhor says:

    When the Hartford, Connecticut symphony was led by Arthur Winograd he greatly discouraged such applause. After David Oistrakh finished the first movement of Beethoven’s violin concerto with a brilliant cadenza, the audience responded loudly. Winograd turned around and glowered, while Oistrakh smiled and bowed.

  • Mock Mahler says:

    There was a notorious reported case when, following applause after the opening movement of a Schubert sonata, Vladimir Feltsman rose, bowed, sat down, and went into the next item on the program, ‘Pictures at an Exhibition’. Gramophone reported this as an example of ‘artistic pique’.

  • HORIA says:

    No applause between movements! Period!

  • Tim says:

    As a jazz performer, I often say that I’d prefer a sincere boo over polite applause. The desire is for connection with an audience. The problem is that patrons often don’t understand what they’re listening to. For example, it’s custom to clap after instrumental solos. Which is fine. But, if a band member plays four bars of connective tissue to get back to the top of the tune, was it really that brilliant to warrant something of an interruption? Or, as with classical performances, sometimes the music is more sensitive and applause disturbs the sentiment.

    All I want from audiences (whether I’m sitting in one or performing) is a genuine, sincere response. Frankly, I think there should be MORE applause at appropriate moments in classical concerts. And even calls for true encores of repeat. (Though one wonders how such would affect contracts if it caused a concert to go overtime.) And, I also think there should be more silence. People paying attention may respond genuinely rather than offer perfunctory applause.

    As an example, I recently listened to the Dvorak Stabat Mater at an outdoor concert in Chicago. Some in the general audience insisted upon politely clapping every time the music stopped. I’m sure they appreciated the music. But did it make a difference? Was it so well performed that they just couldn’t wait to shout, “YES!” with their hands? “Do you realize what was just sung?” I wondered. “Are you agreeing with the sentiment? Are you celebrating Mary’s sorrow?” If, alternatively, those in attendance had been moved to openly crying and loudly mourning, at these times, I’d have said that each individual part of the perfomance had a powerful impact; perhaps just what the composer had hoped.

  • Andrew Tunis says:

    This is one of the most egregious examples of misplaced applause, and this was in Carnegie Hall! https://youtu.be/O61C9RwrW-Y?t=592

  • Kyle says:

    I’m surprised no one has mentioned the barely suppressed murmur of approval that sometimes occurs at the end of a rousing movement. I find that to be the most genuinely appreciative reaction. It’s an audience of people who know the conventions, but just can’t help themselves!

    Getting one of those as a performer remains on my all-time best moments list.

  • Duncan says:

    Possibly more annoying than applause between movements (which is mostly well-intentioned) is the person who simply has to be the first one to clap at the end, sometimes even before the final notes have faded.

  • Henry Cohen says:

    Some years ago, I saw Nadja Salerno-Sonnenberg play Tchaikovsky’s violin concerto with the Baltimore Symphony. At the end of the first movement, the entire audience spontaneously sprang to their feet and gave her a long standing ovation–fully deserved and appropriate. When the audience quieted down, she joked that, if everyone was that happy, maybe she’d just leave.

  • rudy says:

    I think that applause between movements can harm the performer’s concentration, and that is VERY important.
    I do not really care about the audience’s ‘ecstasy’ but THE performer !!!

  • rudy says:

    just a few memories:
    youri egorov disaster at carnegie: someone shouted bravo after the second movement of Schumann Fantasy. Egorov lost concentration and the live recording could not be released.

    pollini at the RFH, 1983: someone started appalause after the bach prelude 24 (book 1) and pollini almost jumped in shock, the fugue did not go well, even if it was the end of a majestic performance of complete book 1

    arrau, 85 birthday new york: another idiot in the hall, starting to clap just before the end of chopin scherzo in b minor, arrau nearly had convulsions after that…

    any other memories you may have ??

  • Corno di Caccia says:

    @Hornbill: You’re right. The Hallé/Mark Elder Prom was fantastic. The best ‘live’ performance of Shostakovich 5 I’ve heard for years. Maybe the applause-crazy idiots stayed away from this as the music would too demanding for them.

  • Ray says:

    As someone once said, have you ever heard a musician coughing during a performance?
    The Proms “cough-athon” is in progress. I will allow you to applaud between movements if you promise not to cough during them.

  • MOST READ TODAY: