UK law can stop you playing any instrument at home
NewsFrom a desperate online petition by multi-instrumentalist Fiona Fey:
Last week I was served a noise abatement notice by Lewisham Council that forbids me to play any musical instrument in my home at any time.
I am a musician, it is my job to practise.
If I do, Lewisham Council can force entry, confiscate all my instruments and fine me £5000.
The hours I was practising were usually between 11 and 3 – not early morning or late at night, the instruments I was practising regularly were guitar, singing and low whistle (70-80db – the volume of a conversation)
The Lewisham Environmental Health Officers (EHO)s stated that volume and time of day is irrelevant, any music noise that can be heard by someone else can be classified as a nuisance….
Sign Fiona’s petition here.
And forward it to your MP.
UPDATE: Musicians have a legal right to 5 hours daily practise.
UPDATE2: Lewisham Council responds
I cannot find in the world atlas at hand where in Afghanistan is Lewisham.
Ridiculous! Some people need to chill the * out. Petition signed.
Get a life they want stop bn nosey. ,let the lady play her music
How’s it nosey if you can hear her noise in your own house?
Music is not noise. And if it annoys anyone, they can get earplugs and live in total silence like they desire.
Do you just believe anything, verbatim, Chris, fact checking not something you consider, lol.
There have been cases about this before : https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/piano-prodigy-wins-right-practise-7741252. I would have thought she would have a very strong case appealing this. Clearly a ridiculous decision from the Council
“volume and time of day is irrelevant”
I don’t think that’s correct. See Noise Act 1996, 5 “Permitted level of noise”.
Some serious legal advice required, I think.
Important to use all the buzz-words: discrimination, sexism, harassment, bullying. I cannot stress enough the importance of using these terms in getting what you want.
You seem nice.
Well not if they are not relevant or appropriate, no.
The reporter hasn’t done their job properly. The law is of England and Wales that applies to Lewisham. I say this as I am a qualified solicitor.
I was also awarded a scholarship to study at the Royal College of Music at the age of 7 so I am educated in both camps.
A petition that is based in the wrong area will have no merit. Go back to the wording of why this is classed as abatement. The word used was “noise”. No musician worth their salt would accept that.
Simples.
My point remains; use the buzz-words of the day to get what you want. Noise abatement for one cohort – musicians – and ignored by others – dog -owners – is tantamount to DISCRIMINATION.
The actual legislation is the Environmental Protection Act 1990, and section 79 to be specific.
There is no such law. Lewisham Council have this very wrong. Anybody is entitled to play an instrument within reasonable hours of the day. She should contact the MU.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/noise-nuisances-how-councils-deal-with-complaints
MU can only give legal advice to their members…. I’m sure Fiona would have done this if she is signed up?
Need more info. Does she live in an apartment or condo? Or, in a single-family home? Is it attached to another home by one wall? And do they apply these standards to loud amplified music? Noise from motorcycles? Crying babies?
I have tinnitus i have to play my CDs loud.
I live in a bungalow the neighbours do not hear
Anything. I did ask them.
I live next door to 2 Border Collies which bark the second the owners leave the property; often 4 hours on end. The local authorities in our area refuse to act. The barking is very often 2 meters from my ears. Visitors? Forget it!! Speak to the owner? “There’s nothing I can (read ‘will’) do about it”.
Been there, Sue. If the dogs are barking like that, they are distressed. Perhaps threaten to call the RSPCA (who have famously wide powers). Worked for us – though it may have helped that the neighbours concerned were in the animal-rights business themselves.
(This is not the contradiction it seems. Paula Vennells was in the God business and therefore virtuous . . .)
Thank you. It’s making our lives a misery every time a plane flies over, a mower starts, a car goes by, anybody is in our backyard…the whole catastrophe. When there is thunder and rain and wind….we just have to go out to get away. The problem, if course, is the owners. They’re dead from the neck up!!
My daughter-in-law’s sister had to move out of the ‘burbs because of dog barking!! With a new baby there was precious little peace in that neighbourhood.
I agree it’s the dog owners who allow dogs to bark. Have dog near us and owners never tell it to stop.
The terms of the noise abatement notice do seem very heavy-handed, but maybe one or more of Ms Fey’s instruments really were excessively loud? Maybe, the terms of this particular notice are not the first intervention the council has made in this case? According to the text of the petition, the complainant is apparently a music teacher himself/herself. I trust that Slipped Disc will offer the complainint a right of reply.
Excessively loud?
Really?
https://youtu.be/gIQ-if1xm7U
Local, self-important official who is partial to low-hanging fruit, I suspect.
I’m a professional piano tuner, does this mean any of my customers could be stopped from playing?
A friend of mine has a daughter and son-in-law living within 10km of Sydney CBD. He plays the piano and when he complained about the barking dogs next door he was told “I have to put up with your piano-playing”.
It appears that all noise is equivalent, on the same continuum. Unless the neighbour is a complete MORON. Anyway, the man in question has ceased playing his piano and the dogs still bark.
Don’t quite get this. Did you mean 10m?
And who or what is Sydney CBD?
Thanks.
CBD is Central Business District. Sydney is a city in New South Wales, Australia, reasonably well-known for a bridge and an opera house. 10 km is ten kilometres.
Thanks. Just wasn’t sure why it was relevant to the piano and dogs etc.
The 10KM radius from the CBD is the ‘golden area’ for real estate. Proximity to the city and all it offers. But extremely high density.
You have a friend?
Yes, would you like to meet her? Just the one, mind!! We must be careful to whom we introduce her lest we lose her too!!!
You could be stopped from tuning
Time for the ‘music teacher’
to withdraw the complaint….
I disagree… Fiona has 21 days to appeal the notice at a magistrates court… on the the grounds it hasn’t been proven with decibel monitoring etc and then get it thrown out.
She has the dubious privilege of appealing the complaint, using her own valuable time, and possibly paying a solicitor.
Oh God. This is ridiculous.
You can bet your bottom dollar there are teenagers with guitars and drum-kits who practice in the parents’ garage with impunity!! If I know anything about it!!!
On the other hand (and I know I will get lots of thumbs down), having to listen to 4 hours a day of unsolicited music can be harsh…
What if you are teleworking and you need to concentrate?
Or you would like to listen to another kind of music? (Imagine you like Dowland and your neighbour sings Lionel Richie or plays Boulez…)
That’s where the council should first encourage amicable conversation around which rooms and hours would be preferable rather than resorting to legal notices as a first resort.
For all we know, maybe the council has attempted to mediate an amicable solution without success. Ms Fey has not given any substantial information on the the history of the noise dispute, so it is unclear whether the noise abatement notice came “out of the blue” or whether it was a long time coming.
Yes, thumbs down, because barking dogs are a quick trip to the lunatic asylum.
Hey CJ, offices are actually free of people practicing music, perhaps you should go to work?
Haven’t met many music teachers who ‘telework’
I think I would rather stand listening to music than the yap yap of a dog all hours of the day or night from the flat upstairs to me. Complaints to the council (whose block of flats it is) have triggered the response that dogs bark and as pets are allowed there is nothing amiss in their eyes.
Ther remedy, besides legal, is to send earplugs to her neighbors. It works for me.
Absolutely shocking I play electric guitar and practice almost every day plugged in to amp I also live in Scotland being up here my neighbours daughter plays bagpipes her son plays guitar too no issues what’s so ever has your council nothing else to do but picks on an artist practicing for her job and to entertain people probably some of the council employees attend her gigs .
My semi detached neighbour practices tenor saxophone in the room next to our house and is very irritating but to be fair it’s just in the daytime.
If you live in Palm Springs I can call the dude playing sax
So this is the end of piped music in pubs and restaurants? Hooray!
Lewisham council may be acting within the law, but that’s no excuse for cretinist stupidity. My wife was born in Dunoon in 1942, but remembers as a small child being soothed by the sounds of a bagpiper practicing. Today presumably the bagpiper would be banged up in the Barlinnie prison.
This musician needs to claim discrimination because local authorities seldom, if ever, do anything about domestic dogs (which can bark for hours), loud cars with after-market exhaust systems and hi-fi systems which can run until well after dark.
Check the local by-laws and dig in on the ‘discrimination’ issue. It’s the buzz-word of the zeitgeist and they should jump to attention. It’s very important to use these words/concepts back at the people who parrot them!!
If people are jealous they are keen on stopping those with talent!
Noise nuisance is noise nuisance. Regardless of the time of day, no one should have to be subjected to 4 hours (!) of noise. The motorbike argument does not wash. A motorbike usually comes, and then it goes. If not, then that is a matter for the council too.
People who make noise that others are selfish.
I have had 40 years of selfish neighbours with drum kits, karaoke systems, violent parties and even an engine tuning business, all in a terraced house.
I have seen them all off but it has left me a broken man.
Live decently or else live elsewhere amongst your own noisy kind.
I think it is common for musicians living in densely populated areas to rent practice space for their groups; I know this because one of the guys I occasionally work with rented a studio space for that precise reason (and he was constantly booked with bands).
Not sure if this is the same situation for this particular musician. Would there potentially be an accommodation made for instruments that could be practiced during the day elsewhere and fewer hours practiced at home on larger immovable instruments?
I just can’t imagine not having a conversation with my neighbors if I were practicing my trombone when they are home. I simply don’t play after 8PM and being retired from public school teaching I can play most any other time during the day.
Have you researched how expensive it is to hire studio space in London? Such a solution would be unaffordable for most classical musicians (most of whom are not “constantly booked” for lucrative and highly profitable engagements). And besides, music-making is a legitimate domestic activity. The issue is reconciling the right to make music (whether for amateur or professional purposes) to the right to peace and quiet. The musician would be expected to take some precautions to avoid excessive noise nuisance, such as refraining from loud night-time practice and closing windows during practice sessions. In general, I would not think it necessary to consult neighbours just because they happen to be at home during practice sessions (in any case, it is not always obvious whether the neighbours are at home), unless the sessions are taking place outdoors (since it is almost impossible to contain sound produced in a garden or balcony), particularly loud, protracted, or during antisocial hours.
Of course, my perspective is predicated on the dwelling having reasonably thick party walls, which is not always the case. Perhaps, local councils should impose far more robust sound-insulation standards for new residential buildings (or extensions), and refuse planning permission to developers who fail to adhere thereto.
I’m aware of someone working shifts who slept in the living room. His bedroom was adjacent the neighbour; and the neighbour was a violin teacher. Not loud; but loud enough in the circumstances. Each case varies.
This order is probably a result of many unresolved complaints and abuse of noise level. All instruments can be played quietly, except drums perhaps, and there must be history which is not reported here. Why has this matter gone this far? I would not like to live next to this musician.
The fact that the complaining neighbour is a music teacher is the cherry on the cake
Once again agenda 21 in stunning action control control control soon we won’t be able to fart at home,
Music is hugely important for a range of reasons. We are often clueless in the UK about how people develop skills in the arts, we think people just do it. Well, they don’t. They practise….
I think Rosamund, you might change the wording slightly, of the point you make, to read: Arts Council and BBC employees are often clueless……..
Just to argue the other side. If I lived next door to someone repeatedly practicing the same passage over and over again I would probably go mental. As someone learning the guitar I sometimes feel for the neighbours while I try to nail the solo of any random song for the nth time. If I was a professional and practicing constantly I would just line a room with sound deadening material then everyone’s happy
Isn’t it funny how there are so many rules, regulations and fines for law abiding tax paying citizens, those who disrupt, throw orange paint and enter our country illegally are almost praised.
Recent law changes by the Tories mean that even people on their way to a peaceful protest are arrested now. Also, coming to ANY country, even by dinghy, and then seeking asylum is NOT illegal. Do not be fooled by the way the Government word the issue. You can look all of this up online of course if you don’t believe me.
Classic ‘whataboutery’ Albert, and of course factually incorrect.
Stupid council laws, isn’t this country supposed to be a FREE COUNTRY.
If she’s a musician, needs to practice somewhere, and if it don’t disturb neighbours or is not over a certain level of dB it should be ok , as long as it don’t disturb anyone.
I play guitar as a hobby and surely don’t disturb anyone.
And and the next door neighbour plays a bit of trumpet so it don’t disturb me or anyone else if it’s not too long a session.
As I live in Wolverhampton and Wolverhampton council don’t seem to have any problems with this in their council area.
I understand if it causes a problem with some neighbours if it’s played too long or load, and don’t sound good.
Lewisham is a sh*thole & the council is stuffed full of lefty militants – good excuse to move somewhere else (although I agree she shouldn’t have to)
Depends on the type of music she is playing
My son has also been issued with a CPW by Lewisham Council. We face a fine and the possibility of his instruments being seized if he plays in our home.
Please get in touch if this has happened to you also. We need a unified response. Lewisham Council cannot get away with criminalising musicians practising in their own homes.
You’ll find my son on instagram Buster Woodruff-Bryant, send him a dm.
Thanks
That means radio and TVs are also not to be used as they produce sounds created by musical instruments. I would have thought decibel readings would determine nuisance parameters irrespective of source.
There are companies that specialise in domestic sound insulation. For walls, it consists of an extra layer of “dead”, non-resonant board, acoustically separated from the wall to prevent transmission. It works, but is expensive and might not be allowed in rented accommodation.
I’d be interested to see the building spec. Cheap construction in a densely populated part of a large city is asking for trouble.
As compared with the lack of concern by councils and planning inspectors about the loss of daylight caused by extensions to houses, originally designed inorder to allow daylight in to back rooms, that put rooms into all day deep shade through the winter months or whose building works cause months and years of noise dust and disruption.
If you are causing a noise nuisance by “working” at home practice somewhere else
Brexit Britain where the Tories attack basic rights constantly without fear now. Obvious 6 years ago this country betrayed itself and allowed a bunch of ignorant racist little Englanders to wreck, touring musicians, farming, fishing, motortrade, legal oversights and human rights, such as the right to protest, to strike, not forgetting the NHS, privatisation in secret deals with American healthcare insurance companies and drug producers. All so predictable it’s depressing the level of ignorance and flag waving bullshit this country is capable of. This farce is just another example of the wealthy taking control of society at every level in their favour.
You left out eating babies and torturing puppies.
And BTW, Lewisham Council is staunchly Labour (and by that I mean 100%).
How was the fishing industry better off before Brexit?
Which motor manufacturers moved to the EU? Honda, Nissan and Toyota didn’t, in spite of Remainer predictions.
It’s a labour council you lunatic. Only the ignorant would bring Brexit into the equation.
Absolutely ridiculous. This country’s laws are an absolute joke. That’s all down to some miserable killjoy neighbour.
But Lewisham Council does not appear to be implementing the law correctly.
What about abating the noise of constant DIY and building projects, together with regular activating of house alarms, that so many of us are subjected to. Luddites!
They should confiscate televisions. And mobile phones used in public transports without earphones
It’s a sad day when you can no longer do anything, totally disgusted.
In the US this would mean an unconstitutional ban from work, is that not the same in the UK. This is prohibiting musicians from exerting their profession so basically a professional ban that is applied only to them
Is pootin working for Lewisham council, this is completely unacceptable on their Fascist part,,, What next??
A self appointed king of Disney
Sign and support folks
Thank you,,,
I think the council is absolutely right and anyone playing any music any instrument or singing at anytime and it is heard by any neighbour is a serious disturbance and nuisance and destroys other people’s lives and peace and those playing should fined thousands and finally be evicted and even sent to prison. They don’t know how destructive noise can be to other people’s lives
It’s critically important to consider that if the poster has to resort solely to soundproofed rehearsal rooms the cost could rack up into the 1000s, given the hours she needs to rehearse. We all appreciate music, correct? Next time you listen to something on the radio keep in mind that in every single case, the musician needed a space to rehearse.
I suspect the issue is if this is every day. Maybe the neighbour cannot, for example, have visitors? Shame it couldn’t be discussed and a compromise reached. My husband plays double bass and we have never had problems but he doesn’t practise daily and he is very good, playing beautiful pieces not just scales and repetition.
The density of housing in the UK does make it quite hard for everyone to get what they want out of their home be it somewhere for their music or peace and quiet.
One neighbour did ask for windows to be opened so they could hear better!!
But the threats to confiscate ate draconian
This is absolutely absurd
This is obviously what happens when you vote Tory. A police state.
It’s a solid Labour council.
Sorry to disappoint.
Blimey. Authoritarianopia!!!
This would make a singular test case in law.
My brother a KC would be interested in it. I am sending him the info on it. I think anyone in environmental health considering for example the adagio of Mozart’s Clarinet concerto, or Bach’s double concerto, or Beethoven’s Spring sonata as noise nuisance needs to wise up. Private Eye’s Lunchtime O’Boulez ran a story about the Carrabino case.
They finally won their case allowing their son to practice. I think this case shows that it is possible to challenge a Council’s policy and win.
In GB the mean turnout for Council elections was about 32%, well under 50%, at this low rate of interest, low government in GB may be abolished it seems not fit for purpose at all.
No one has ever complained when I play my wire strung harp or Brian Boru’s march on the Uilleann pipes.
I used to know a fella who played Blue Bonnet on the warpipes at 2am in my digs back in the 1960s, without any problem, during my finals!
In the meantime, here is the report on the Carrabino case.
https://musiciansunion.org.uk/news/carrabinos-score-vital-court-victory-for-musicians#:~:text=A%20London%20couple%20have%20won,piano%20in%20their%20own%20home.
The Carrabino case has already established in law the right of musicians to practice their instruments. This is really absolute nonsense, Lewisham Council need a letter before action sent to them to remind them of the judgment on the case brought against Kensington & Chelsea Council.
the uk law is not to have overly loud noise from 11:00pm until 8:00 am.
Well done. A neighbour that practices any instrument is a nuisance especially if you work from home.
Hey music-is-a-nuisance Rock, maybe you can find peace and quiet and perhaps your soul in the office. You gonna eat that cake too?
When people are stressed and depressed, the impact of other people’s noise and mere existence can drive people to tears and be so angry and upset.
I lived in a miserably unkempt HMO where if people were noisy, just hearing their presence made me feel ill. Fiona’s practicing is just the something someone can do about their life having been made miserable by other factors.
People have no money or control. The council would do well to look at the residents situation and see how they might alleviate some stress, because a bit of bloody guitar for 4 hours is not the sole irritant here.
This is not just about the music, I’m sure of it. When you’re not having to stress about money constantly, the world is a much more pleasant place to exist in and it also makes you more tolerant of everything. Even the birds singing is utterly dreadful when you’re in the doldrums.
Shame on the council acting like this is the only problem causing their tenants grief.
Playing all musical instruments and playing all sorts of audio players and singing etc. if heard by any other neighbour to absolutely any level or extent even very low level should be legally banned by law. If repeated to the instrument confiscated and in later stages penalties and prosecution. Specially in blocks of flats. No one has to suffer from this kind of nuisance even if someone is making a living with it. You can’t build your career on other people’s suffering .This is a common sense and doesn’t need a second thought.there are many isolated places to practice , play and listen to music not where you and other people live. You can’t say my home my rules.this is ridiculous. you can’t simply destroy many other peoples lives and rights only because you enjoy playing a very personal instrument and having a very personal unnecessary life style.
Or totalitarians can be forced to learn what tolerance means!
And what of barking dogs, screaming kids, arguing parents, noisy teens and grumpy pensioners?
This tyrannical attitude of I dont like it so you must be stopped needs to be rooted out of our society.
Respect, respect. Takes confidence to state such absurd opinions on a music site. Perhaps you should find yourself a nice place in the country without any neighbours? I know having you as my neighbour would cause nothing by suffering after all.
Hi Fiona
As you have pointed out, Environmental Health Officers are ignorant of the law around noise nuisance. Unfortunately you do need to respond to the notice served on you, because if you don’t, then it will exist forever afterwards. The judgement in the Carrabino vs RBKC is full and comprehensive and it will assist you in your dispute with Lewisham officers. The Carrabinos won a resounding victory against a poorly trained and ignorant RBKC Environmental Health Department and the judge awarded them their costs in full because the council officers had behaved so appallingly. I have emailed you more fully on your fionafey.com website.
So this is what they do with all the money that we give them.
They can’t confiscate your voice… I would take my other instruments to a safe place and sing to the top of my voice all day… What about when neighbour’s kids scream all day everyday?!
Feeling the urge to take up bagpipes….
Here is Seamus Ennis playing the reel the Morning Thrush composed c 1913 on the Uilleann pipes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLe9etQ0iwQ
https://www.pianistmagazine.com/news/right-to-practise-upheld-by-uk-court?fbclid=IwAR1Q1uWyMo8o0gpH2FgDOOMnDbPu0ULLivITn5lg8EiRV7X3YmLcdLX47Ak
The world is a magical place, full of people waiting to be offended by something.
This is not right, the council sound like jobs worths
Extreme bullies I think….
https://youtu.be/gIQ-if1xm7U
That’s total BS. The council do not have that power or that right. As long as the noise is below 80db then you are not breaking any laws.
They have to do several monitiring tests and provide evidence that you are consistently breaching 80db during the daytime. If they can not produce that evidence then you are not in breach of any noise abatement laws.
This is insane, playing music with speakers or shouting and swearing at amy time should be included too but no enforcement. What about making new building regulations law where homes are livable in the first place!
My neighbour upstairs urinates in such a way that he can be heard in every part of my flat, which is a 90’s purpose built with concrete floors. Imagine hearing that every couple of hour, especially when going to sleep and putting lights out.
If We wish for music to continue, one of life’s real pleasures,then this law needs to be scrapped. If not we will lose our musicians. It is just not feasible for musicians to be able to afford a sound proof studio etc. If it remains, it particularly discriminates against musicians from low income back grounds. Why not have a law that states sociable hours as the window for practice.
I play guitar
sadly I’m unable to sing (which I’ve done all my life) due to health probs
Life just wouldn’t be the same if we weren’t allowed to have music at home
Music is such a great thing that reaches out to all ppl and to stop it at home would be a big big sin
So basically Lewisham council are trying to make someone unemployed ? And take her love of music away from her , I’m disgusted
How ridiculous is this. People stomp floors and speak loudly, they also play music for everybody in their estates and no one bats an eye.
I will support you as I too like to play an instrument.
I like to play keyboards and it is good exercise for fingers.
The judgement in the Carrabino v Kensington & Chelsea Borough Council case has already confirmed the right to practice. Lewisham Council is not complying with GB law. It needs to be sent a letter before action, to wake them up. This is a non story. She could sue them for loss of earnings if it has affected her income.
Live next door to children who play instruments . The mother could not understand why I got so angry when I could here drums playing over my TV in the middle of the day! Still hear piano and other instruments along with drums not all at same time I must say. Was hard when working from home and timing professional phone calls to miss any noise. It also can disturb my dogs even left alone even with radio left on low for them. I agree people must practice but it can be so disturbing for those near them.
If the volume is at same level as a normal conversation then what is the problem. Is this musician then not aloud to talk or have the TV on boil a kettle in case it whistles. Think there needs to be some arbitration between neighbours and if this neighbour is a music teacher is beyond me
The council claim they only took action as a last resort as the musician refused to engage with them. Is this true?
Where did the council claim this please?
No doubt the same tune repeated endlessly that can really drive neighbours mad make a room sound proof then no problem
I have a neighbour who plays hardcore electronic music between 9pm/11pm my local council have said they cannot do anything as the cut off point is 11pm for noise nuisance. Have you asked to see the law that they are using to enforce the ban on you. I live in Cardiff South Wales. I to play guitar and synths and practice around 12/3pm when my neighbours are all in work.
You’ve been told a lot of BS, yoh should threaten the council with the ombudsman if what you say is true, same as the council would never have took action, if what this person was saying is true. I smell bs all round.
Just when you think the failures of this toxic government both locally and centrally and their draconian laws they persist in peddling, this one really takes the Michael (oooh am I going to be in trouble for using a person’s name in case they’re offended) sadly this becoming more right wing and we will be programmed to think.
It is utterly ridiculous to think that this could be real but I’m growing to know that anything is possible these days.
Do fight the council on this, you simply must as what you have described is one tick away from insanity.
There is no such thing as UK law. There’s English law and Scottish law.
I was once told by Gloucester city council that playing any kind of musical instrument is considered an antisocial activity and is not allowed at any time. I play guitar, I practice with headphones!
I’ve been a musician for 30 years and never had issue with anyone, especially the council.
You’ve been given the wrong information by your local council. Time and decibel levels are relevant, look it up all the information is on the government website.
If she played Blue Bonnets o’er the water on the Warpipes at 2am, they might possibly have a case. A fella I shared digs with did that during my finals! I passed with flying colours all the same.
I think they would have real trouble if they had someone like Father Fintan Stack, playing his “jungle music” at 3am. It took our Father Hackett to finally sort it out at Parochial House.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yj8GdOd4Ts
It sounds like this complaint on the desk of Environmental Health Department officer who does not know there job and working for a outsourced company that do the work directly for the council
Some of these companies don’t employ fully qualified people to do the job
Because if they did they would known the Db limits and the times of day that the law applies
The council issues the notice after due process, (after building up evidence over a period of time and trying to come to a reasonable compromise), the person causing the alleged noise nuisance, can appeal the notice and have their day in court. Someones not telling the full story, lol.
Actually Matthew, there is no due process. Councils differ widely in how they handle these situations. Under current (very flawed) EPA law, a council officer need only visit once and declare that they have witnessed a statutory nuisance. They are then immediately able to serve a notice severely restricting a person’s freedoms. They do not need to obtain acoustic recordings, they can merely rely on their own “professional” opinion. These people have this sort of power, and it is not difficult to see how it can be abused. And while a notice can be appealed in court, an unscrupulous, vindictive council who doesn’t care how much taxpayers’ money it wastes, can make life very, very difficult for the musician. In the Carrabino case, officers destroyed acoustic evidence, and hid from the court other evidence of officers claiming the piano playing was not a nuisance. RBKC senior officers and councillors do not like being challenged and at the very highest levels of the council, these environmental health officers were supported and protected.
http://fromthehornetsnest.blogspot.com/2020/09/useful-idiots-and-environmental-health.html
OMG RBKC spent £250k on this case! No wonder Fiona gave up!
Yes but if you fail the appeal you can be responsible for all the other sides costs. In RBKC case this was £250k. Would you take that risk?And the sound ” nuisance ” is the opinion of one person witnessed once with no reference to Db measurements required.
About 25 years ago Burbank California passed a local ordinance like this and it lasted for about a week. Not only was there a tremendous amount of bad publicity over just the idea of it, but because Burbank is a studio town full of lots of professional musicians it was found to be completely unworkable. It made a real laughing stock of the place.
What if I want to study trumpet???
My neighbour, mum plus 2 Teenages play a piano in a mid terraced cottage. I recently lost my mum and the constant noise drives me mad. I feel her lack of empathy. Shows her real character. Very ☹️ sad
If people want to play music (from a stereo) then there are such things as headphones, they also make them wireless. As for instruments, I can understand why that would annoy neighbours, especially in a block… it happens in mine, it is quite irritating to hear, especially cos they live at the top (2nd floor) and I’m on the ground; my TV doesn’t allow headphones so I have to raise the volume (I hate doing it, but no choice).
find a band camp. people have the absolute right to *quite* enjoyment at home.