Black musicians launch protest at Kansas City Symphony
OrchestrasWe have received this communication from the Black Musicians Network:
Dear Maestro Michael Stern, President and CEO Danny Beckley,
We are the Black Orchestral Network (BON), a community of Black orchestral artists. We love and care about the American orchestral community: from its history and roots, to how it is felt and experienced, to its sustained success and vibrant role in American life.
We are protesting the Kansas City Symphony’s decision to deny Josh Jones tenure. We were stunned when we heard that news. Tenure should not have been an issue for Josh. He is a world-class talent. We cannot say it better than Maestro Stern himself said it in a letter he wrote to Josh in November of 2021: “You are an exceptional talent, and you have already added immeasurably to the performance standard and the communal culture of the Kansas City Symphony. You have already accomplished so much with us… both on and off the stage… And this is not just my opinion–the committee and all of your colleagues support you completely.”
We are distressed. But tragically, Josh’s recent experience bears unfortunate resemblances to the experiences of too many other black orchestral musicians. Black musicians disproportionately have trouble securing orchestral tenure. We know this to be true from both our lived experiences and from the historical record. There’s a long, sorry history going back at least as far as Elayne Jones, the barrier-breaking African American percussionist with the San Francisco Symphony.
When, as with Josh, our playing is not an issue, tenure committees find other, pretextual ways to criticize the way we do our jobs. Much too often, “leadership” or “management” or similar factors become the excuse instead. Black musicians rarely if ever have someone of color on their committee, or anyone trained in recognizing and preventing implicit racial biases, which often compounds problems. We have read the coalition letter separately signed by others and Josh’s statement attached to it. The account they give of the tenure process here is concerning. Regrettably, it is hard to rule out race as a critical factor here….
We suggest two potential pathways forward for the Kansas City Symphony:
Grant tenure to Josh Jones, or
Restart the tenure process for Josh Jones and implement a process that is fair.
Read on here.
Oh, to be a black orchestral musician today…
Oh good grief. I hope the orchestra isn’t going to be cowed by these tactics.
“Grant tenure to Josh Jones” – why should they?
“Restart the tenure process for Josh Jones and implement a process that is fair.”
You didn’t like the result, so change the process? Bad idea.
What is the evidence of racism here? Too often these special interest groups are advocating only for their own people.
The “BON” should lay it out their argument for racism clearly and quickly, or shut up. What a disgrace.
It’s easy to be a closeted RACIST like yourself when you boldly espouse such ugliness under the online moniker of “anonymous”. Whomever you are, you’re a coward. Sincerely, Ken Eberhart…
Your reply is textbook ad hominem. If you have any kind of rebuttal to the points laid out above, present it. Or, simply keep doing what you’re doing…at least you’re providing free entertainment for the rest of us!
Racism has been, and continues to be a serious problem in this nation. If you find that “entertaining”, then you have serious personality problems. Your comments, and the majority of comments on this page, have been openly spoken online, but in the covert language of racism, because you are hiding behind the cowardice of anonymity. If you’re local to KC, I’d be glad to get a coffee & speak to you person to person. But I’m guessing you lack the courage to express yourself without the safety of an online comment thread.
Wow..your reply could not have been more fitting. Great job.
Anyways, I’m done wasting my time here. Be well!
“eQuAL oUtCoMeS fOr aLL”
. . . and this from the city that, more or less, launched the careers of Count Basie, Bennie Moten, Lester Young, Ben Webster, Melba Liston, Big Joe Turner, Charlie Parker, and who knows who all (mostly on the Missouri side, I imagine).
An interesting conundrum.
The fellow has first rate credentials and has certainly passed many audition rounds to end up in the Orchestra and therbye performing long enough to have the “powers that be” decide on his tenure.
It’s not clear, and most likely will never be clear, as to what exactly the reasons for this decision are.
Aside from his musical skills as a performer, he is in a leadership position and has to manage his section.
And he has to get on with his colleagues. Not sure if this was part of the decision and it rarely gets beyond the Orchestra in any similar situation.
Now a question for the BMN since there are many prominent names on that list and it is lengthy so has the support of most Black Classical musicians in the USA:
At what point will we have arrived in the field to say that the playing field is level?
Will we ever reach that Promised Land?
And does tilting the playing field then discount the well-earned reputation of many of the members of the BMN?
Thanks and I look forward to reading comments regarding this situation.
At the beginning of the Kansas City Symphony season Josh Jones played a percussion concerto that brought down the house. I’ve never seen an audience demand so many curtain calls from a soloist. Absolutely thrilling. It’s a shame that he is being let go.
Does being denied tenure mean he is actually getting fired from the orch? Apologies if this is a stupid question, but it’s not my area of expertise, and google is no help. (“Too many words, dear Mozart…”)
It brand when the term of his current contract is up his employment will end.
No he is not fired from the orchestra. It means his contract is not renewed.
This situation is an appalling example of intimidation tactics using highly sensitive subject. BON has a lot of leg work to do if they claim that this is a case of racism. But then again in current social climate one can simply grift on a identitarian ideology.
What is/are the specific reason(s) KCS gave for denying his tenure? This letter just makes vague references, probably for legal reasons? He’s a fantastic musician and person, and I can’t believe there would be any question about this.
This is not a first time a musician who seems to be qualified or “perfect” for the job doesn’t get a tenure in a major symphony orchestra. On an average it takes up to 30+ auditions to land a good job. Reasons for denial of tenure could by any and many from personality conflicts to wrong kind of sound for this specific group.
You have to keep in mind that musicians are deciding if they want to be sitting/standing next to this guy possibly for the rest of their careers.
Personally if I was a member of a committee and a candidate pulled this type of publicity stunt I would press very hard to veto his candidacy. An individual who is willing to create a media storm to advance their personal goals is a destructive force on an organization and should be avoided.
Of course. And he will most likely have a difficult time getting tenure in another orchestra based on what has happened here.
Wow, straight up extortion ‘…or else’. The “wokies” have come for the orchestra to subvert the cultural means of production and “decolonize it”. Let’s see if Stern has balls to stand up to the insanity of the woke mob or if he is going to cave in and allow the continuation of the “long march through the institutions”.
Stern is being replaced by Matthias Pinscher.
After reading the full letter via the link provided, it does seem like the KCS failed to provide transparent feedback to Josh throughout the tenure process. If that is indeed the case, it’s a failure of management. I think what the BON is requesting is fair, even if it is unprecedented.
Management has nothing to do with tenure. If he was denied tenure look no further than his colleagues. I don’t know their CBA but I doubt Stern could’ve overruled it. Management gave over hiring and firing, which is against labor law, to the union.
This is completely false. The music director has the sole power to grant or deny tenure in the KCS contract. The musicians’ role is purely advisory.
Do you know why these tenure issues get so heated? Because those not granted tenure are angry with the fact that it is VERY honest and diplomatic. They simply are not wanted by their colleagues and can’t deal with that reality. Perhaps some create a hostile environment that causes people not to want to come to work and those jerks need to be shut out regardless of playing level. The same thing happened with Jasmine Choi in Vienna. Her colleagues simply didn’t want her because her playing style wasn’t a fit for that orchestra (wrong puzzle piece), but she couldn’t accept that cold, harsh reality. So how did she handle it? She cried racism around the world…absolutely pathetic. It’s not like these people were just given a day or a week to prove themselves. They were given at least a YEAR! Some are given several years.
Unfortunately world class players sometimes do not get tenure. There are some musicians out there that play amazing auditions, but don’t fit into their orchestra section for a variety of reasons. This can only be realized during their probationary period.
I would not classify the KC Symphony as a “leading” American orchestra. I am sure they are great for the Kansas City audience.
I am surprised that Al Sharpton has not jumped on this opportunity to make himself money at the expense of his brothers, as he always does. Without “racism” Sharpton and Jesse Jackson have no reason for being, hence they are the ones who promote racism.
BON is just another affirmative action activist group. If Josh is as good a player as said here, he will get a good gig in another orchestra.
I daresay that the majority of commenters and voters here (myself included) lack the detailed information on Mr Jones’s case to be qualified to opine on it. But to deny, by putting the word in scare quotes, the existence of racism in the U.S. is pretty startling, especially when a U.S. senator (Sen. Tuberville) has advocated recruiting white nationalists to serve in the armed forces (yesterday: merely the most recent example that comes to mind). And to acknowledge the persistence of racism is not to endorse each and every action of, say, Mr Sharpton.
This is why they invented blind auditions.
But probation and tenure processes are not blind. No one is denying that he won a blind audition before being denied tenure.
When did “concerning” become an adjective? It is a preposition.
Try “disturbing,” which this story would be if tenure were not always such a fraught issue.
“Concerning” is not a preposition at all; it is a gerund; and gerunds often serve as adjectives in English.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english-german/concerning?q=Concerning
Both words are gerunds; that is not the issue.
They didn’t even bother to claim any actual examples of racism he might have experienced.
Maybe because the committee didn’t provide any actual reasons tenure was denied.
Per the KCS contract, the music director is required to provide a written evaluation to the musician following each tenure meeting. If this did not happen, it is a clear contract violation, and Josh has a very strong case. If it did happen, only Josh can disclose the contents of that evaluation, since the contract requires everyone else involved to maintain confidentiality.
In fact the committee CANNOT provide any formal feedback directly to the musician. Tenure is solely the decision of the music director. The committee is only advisory.
There are a hundred reasons great players don’t get tenure and I’ve seen it happen many times. I have never seen it happen due to racism.
What I have also seen many times is that the majority candidates who are turned down often dispute the feedback given and prefer to blame factors other than themselves.
That’s just the indomitable spirit of human nature I guess.
How familiar are you with racism, J.B.?
I mean, what level of personal experience of racism do you have, that would qualify you to judge a situation like this one?
You don’t need stand-point epistemic knowledge to make judgments on any phenomenon. The ability to reason and observe is sufficient to come to a well rationalized conclusion.
“Lived experience” doesn’t qualify as an end-all argument because emotional investment and personal preference (begging the question) poison any rational judgement and create false positives.
Please those “100 reasons” in order of priority, from 1 to 100.
As far as racism goes, please share the source of your “expertise” on the subject. Diversity training experiences, equity in workplace seminars, CRT, etc.
Amazing how the most vocal “experts” on racism are always the people who have never experienced it.
“ Amazing how the most vocal “experts” on racism are always the people who have never experienced it.”
Again, how do you know? You don’t. Every single point you’ve attempted to make is based on presumption. You are a poor advocate for your position but to be fair, your position is weak because it is based on nothing more than inference. Calling it inference is actually giving you too much credit for reasoned argument.
Your comprehension of racism is so very lacking in your posted comments. If you have not participated in any sort of DEI seminars, workshops, etc. – there is no way you could possibly grasp the modern concepts defing
racism, bias, diversity, equity, or inclusion. “Being white” doesn’t mean one cannot learn, through proper study, to gain perspective from African Americans who have experienced racism. By listening to their paradigm, by having close personal & professional connections to people who are your friends & coworkers… you gain an understanding and more empathy for the path they have walked. In doing so, the racism that I’ve never known becomes defined for me, through the eyes of African American people who are close to me in social and vocational pursuits. It takes more than token connections to sincerely understand others.
Your verbiage reeks of the sort of language that my closest associates have complained about. I’ve spent my entire adult life, learning from the people I call friends, who are also African American, about their experiences. The content of these posts is very telling:
American Symphony Orchestras are administered by a majority of white executives, are staffed by a majority of white office workers, are conducted by a majority of white conductors, and the player personnel are also a white majority.
So, when a black musician says that they feel discrimated against, it is a perfect example of white privilege for all of those white people mentioned above, to say:
“No, this isn’t racism, you’re wrong.”
White people get the benefit of the doubt? That’s not equitable.
Black people are the ones who are empowered when it comes to defining the racism they experience.
The person being racist doesn’t get to define whether or not they are BEING RACIST. The person receiving that racism gets to define whether or not they are experiencing racism.
And I’m guessing nothing I’ve stated will get through to you. Your previous posts are proof positive that you have no desire
to learn about DEI. As long as your mind is made up that “racism is only a thing of the past”, how can you ever learn to understand someone else’s truth?
You can’t.
Maybe someday, you’ll choose enlightenment over ignorance.
Ah the good old CRT/DEI… The brain child of Derrick Bell and Kimberly Crenshaw stolen from Combahee River Collective, Foucault and de Beauvoir. Every tenant of that half baked ideological nonsense can be taken apart.
And it doesn’t even matter which permutation of that nonsense you would analyse Matsuda, Solorzano, Delgado, Williams, original Crenshaw, or if you want to go into “whiteness studies” garbage with Applebaum or applied CRT (DEI) with DiAngelo or Kendi. It’s based on false assumptions and premises – garbage in => garbage out.
Its main goal is to create a problem within organisation using racial tension even where there is none, blow it up out of proportion through instigation, and then play the victim and create a social media storm to follow. The last stage is an installation of an ideological commissariat which will then commence on a witch hunt look NOT for whether racism is present but rather how it manifested itself BECAUSE (!important!) the assumption that racism is the source had been already made.
CRT/DEI treats Blacks as if they lack abilities, Whites as moral monsters wearing their sin on their skin, Asians as complacent co-conspirators or beneficiaries to an evil scheme. There is nothing healing, nothing kind and nothing constructive that it provides. Only conflict, tensions, hatred. suspicion and ideological submission.
This goes back to DeBois’ transplant of ideas of German FOLKishness (the source which later became precursor for nazi ideology in Germany) into US civil rights. DeBois lost to Booker T Washington/MLK approach in the 60’s and instead of confronting the loss decided to take up another route through social engineering.
The whole project reeks of ‘conflict theory’ and instigation of violent conflict on axis of race to usher a utopian dialectical synthesis which suppose to bring the next stage of social development (politically, culturally and economically).
This garbage can be traced to Rousseau’s concept of noble savages; Hegelian dialectic; utilisation of Marxist economic labour theories, wealth distribution conclusions and conflict theory with social values and cultural products as a stand-in for economic material production and values; and last but not least destabilising post-modern attitude towards epistemic objectivity (thank you Crenshaw for marrying those two piles of trash) in order to usher an intuition based epistemic privilege of “lived experience”.
We can keep going if you want? I can tear this thing apart any time of night and day because unlike most of DEI “trainers” or CRT fanatics I actually read the texts more then twice.
He is probably a really fine player but sadly excellent players are denied tenure all the time. I feel bad for him but it’s a really brutal business.
Frankly though it’s rich that they’re complaining about racial bias. I wonder if they’re referring to programming works by inferior composers solely because of their race (Florence Price, anyone?) or orchestral fellowship programs that are only open to minorities, etc.
There used to be a lot of discrimination in the classical music world but things are now more egalitarian than ever and as a result I think standards are at an all time high.
We should not turn back the page and start discriminating for a favored group as was done in the past, i.e. men in the Vienna Phil and other major orchestras. Excellence should be the only consideration.
Has anyone thought that there a may be an element of care in the way that KCS has proceeded with this? It is entirely possible that the reasons for the player’s denial of tenure is amply justified and that the refusal to release details is a good faith effort by the organization to protect said player’s interests and future job prospects. This is far from unheard of in orchestral administrative procedures.
This happens to people of all color and gender….David Cooper, Silvia Carredu, David Buck, Benjamin Forster,…..the list goes on and on. Just playing very well isn´t the only thing..you need to fit in,musically and socially.It´s complicated.
Yes, and being nonwhite in a largely white field (especially in winds, brass, and percussion) makes it harder to fit in socially and culturally.
It’s alarming that all of the people you named, along with Josh, happen to be exceptionally creative and exciting performers and artists. It can be easy for hyper-professional orchestra musicians to look down on exciting and flamboyant music-making, and that’s where I’d argue the unconscious racial bias kicks in.
“Flamboyant” playing very often does not equal better in professional orchestral life. It is a team sport, not a solo career. You have to fit in musically with your section, period. It could not be more obvious that this fact has nothing to do with racism.
Flamboyant music making is okay,as long as it fits in the style,sound profile,and social structure of an orchestra….If not ,it can be very out of place and one should become a soloist….As an orchestra veteran for 44 years now,i didn´t get tenure twice….In one case,i simply don´t know why( it happened many years ago)….Sometimes it just doesn´t work, like in a human relationship.
This comment paints a completely false narrative. Orchestras are among the most progressive organizations in the country/world.
Administrations and musician formed initiatives bend over backwards to create scholarships and exemptions in an otherwise brutally competitive field for minority students. Art organizations in general are filled with bleeding heart progressives who live on the cutting edge of every cultural “revolution”.
To claim that there are discriminatory behaviors requires proof. Otherwise this is simply blackmail tactic conveniently using a hot button issue. And even if there had been a rogue instance of such behavior to extrapolate that it is common is beyond the pale nonsense.
I’m ashamed for the Orchestras in this country if we are still in the place of denying black musicians tenure, and possibly based on intangible things like “leadership style.”
These criteria would never be mentioned in tenure reviews of white men, for example. That’s because white men, as a group, have for centuries defined what “leadership style“ is.
I wouldn’t want to be on the management or artistic leader,ship teams of this organization now. Good for BON, and I hope the orchestras subscribers and donors are taking notice.
Anyone want to supply John here with the very, very long list of “white men” who’ve been denied tenure over the last few decades?
You, John, are precisely how great institutions die.
Institutions die when they fail to recognize the harm they have caused…in some cases centuries.
And I doubt any white men were denied tenure over “leadership style” (read “you don’t belong in this neighborhood”)
When there are historically only white men up for tenure, then yes, the list of white men not receiving tenure will be “very, very long” .
So could those white men who were denied tenure claim discrimination as well?
Perhaps the size of their nose or the color of their eyes or their hairstyle or their body shape were not mainstream enough.
Lots of claims that need a lot more information and support.
For example: “That’s because white men, as a group, have for centuries defined what ‘leadership style’ is.”
What are the qualities of leadership to which you are referring?
Which ones of those qualities/behaviors are restricted to only white males?
Are you claiming that leadership criteria for a black or asian woman or man have different standards?
Because that would imply that different races (socially constructed labels for phenotypical peculiarities) have essential essence of behavior which is attached to their skin color and therefore somehow codified in their genome(?). That line of reasoning would be the very definition of racist perspective.
Something polygenists or white/black/asian supremacists would claim.
Is that what you mean?
My support goes to Josh Jones and the Black Orchestral Network.
Anyone complaining did not read or does not care about the content of the full letter in the link, which clearly states the tenure process used did not follow guidelines for equitability.
And anyone who thinks unconscious racial bias doesn’t exist is kidding themselves.
The Harvard Implicit Association test which claims to identify “unconscious racial bias” has replication rate of .23-.27 (about 2 times below standard to be considered of any significance), which means it doesn’t provide any intelligible information about any sort of subliminal bias and can be cheated.
I believe two out of three creators of this test came out publicly to denounce any relevance of their creation.
To believe in “unconscious bias”, is to believe in crystal ball style mind reading. As if some magical psychics who process double consciousness can tell you what you REALLY think.
Any orchestra or arts administration that doesn’t say, firmly, and without flinching, “We trust the musicians of our orchestra and reserve the right to conduct our internal affairs without threat of intimidation or extortion” deserves everything it has coming to it.
Can someone elaborate on what tenure grants in an orchestra position?
It grants permanent membership, just like tenure for a professor.
Job security, above all else. For a tenured musician to be fired management must go through a lengthy process which often takes as long as the initial probationary period.
Essentially tenure in the orchestral workplace means enhanced job security. Typically it means that a peer review panel can overturn a music director’s decision to terminate a musician on artistic grounds. During the (again typical) two-year probationary period, a musician can be fired without any additional review by a peer review process.
This message does not provide basic information.
Who is Josh Jones? Is he a conductor? An instrumentalist? What instrument does he play?
Principal percussion
I cannot judge what’s going on here. But, to my ears, there is an undeniable sense of entitlement in the BON statement. Josh is Black and thus if he doesn’t get tenure it must be discrimination or fraud. Sounds suspiciously like the current penchant for disrespecting judicial rulings or election outcomes when we don’t like them. Put differently, “judges appointed by Republican presidents cannot make correct and fair decisions.” Or “that new conductor is under 30; how can his Mahler be good in any way?”
Also, is the BON racist (anti-White) in its claim that a tenure committee without Black representation (are there perhaps othee non-white members, e g Asian?) cannot make a competent, fair and appropriate decision with regard to a Black musician?
Basically, it SOUNDS like someone didn’t get their way and is now yelling “foul” by playing the racism / bias card. And the breakdown of institutions in America continues. It’s a lose-lose situation .
I do not know Josh Jones so I won’t pass judgement on him or KC symphony here. However as a black musician myself I am sickened by BON, they are exactly as you described them. It’s all driven by mediocre players and musicians such as Titus Underwood, people who unfortunately don’t have the talent to recognize they’re own shortcomings and are willing to play the race card at all cost. Perhaps we do not have the same opportunities, we don’t win nearly as many jobs as whites and Asians in the classical music field but frankly very few of my fellow brothers are willing to put in the hours and work their butts off to actually get level with the ones that we so happily accuse of racism
Here here, thanks for the honest assessment.
The correct spelling of the expression you’re butchering is:
“Hear, hear!”
I think this is likely a fake post written by a white person.
Send Norman a message and ask him. He’ll know for sure whether the message is authentic.
It’s not cool, and certainly not groovy, to insult another musician’s ability in public (conductors and super famous soloists excluded).
Don’t get me stated on Republican “judges”!
Yes. The way they carry on tempts me to become a racist. You can learn a lot about them by simply watching COPS.
That letter from Michael Stern will come back to haunt. The KCS has a big problem here.
I know nothing of this particular case, but the tenure system (like auditions, competition juries, etc.) has always been fraught with peculiar decisions, unfairness, secrecy that may or may not be secret, etc.
The tenure system is collapsing in universities (in the US at least), and this is likely a view of the future in the orchestral world. (In fact it’s already happening.) The reason: conversion of positions to the gig economy: on-demand work, no long-term commitments, often no benefits. The gig economy is even more arbitrary, unfair, inhumane, and closed to scrutiny than tenure.
I find it hard to believe that there would not be a clearly spelled out probationary/tenure review process in the collective bargaining agreement which is the “rule book” for musicians and management in the inner workings of the orchestra. This is fairly standard, and having worked in the field for many years, I can tell you that several orchestras have gone to great lengths to codify the process in their cba. Every musician is typically provided a copy of the cba electronically or in print upon hire. There is typically an on boarding/orientation meeting with the new musician in which important details such as the review process are discussed and explained. The personnel manager typically will remind the new probationary musician of what the process is, when review meetings are to occur, who their committee is and elected officers are, and then when meetings occur, document the details of all the meetings in this process for both parties. I find it hard to believe that this process would not be in place and followed to a “t” in KC. And yes, it is possible that a musician may not receive tenure simply because, although they may be a wonderful musician, they may not be an effective leader of their section. Who knows what the reason(s) were but this is entirely possible and I have seen it happen first-hand.
There was a percussionist in the National Symphony who was denied tenure not once but twice. Each time he turned around and won the job again. He was not denied tenure based on his playing but over other concerns. After winning the the job the third time he was finally granted tenure. No one, including all these posters said a peep about it because the guy is Asian. I’m sorry but if you want equality that means being treated like everyone else…..not getting your own fellowship programs or other preferential treatment. Truthfully, the majority of best players are white and Asian but there is a minority of really wonderful black players and all this affirmative action is really damaging to these players since it just causes people to question their accomplishments.
As usual, the ability to post anonymous comments on SD reveals startling attitudes. The overwhelming majority go beyond objecting to or questioning the BON statement and hint at racial hostility.
One get the impression that classical music might serve as a symbol of white supremacy in the minds of many its patrons. Does SD reflects the wider views of classical music consumers, or is it something specific to this particular social media community? I guess we’ll never know.
@William osborne. I read the comments and with the exception of yours and few others of the same ilk, I found them ….well mannered and offered in good faith.
Just what specifically did you find so startling?
I think we all know that a classical music blog is not exactly a domain of white supremacists. So telling people who are not racist that they’re racist is not an effective means of persuasion although it can be effective and shutting people down which is obviously your tactic. Have a little more faith in your argument.
If you stood by what you say, and if it had any substance, you’d use your real name and not a pseudonym.
Substance stands on its own and doesn’t require a source validation.
Are you dodging the question?
I question how many of the people on this board actually attend classical concerts.
I’ve been to some of the so called “woke” concerts that has people on this board grasping their pearls and collapsing into their fainting couches. The halls are filled, they’re diverse — and especially young and with families — and everyone seems to have a good time. Meanwhile, the traditional concerts with a Mozart Piano Concerto and Bruckner Symphony are half empty, with people leaving at intermission and in-between movements.
This particular orchestra has a hard time keeping people in this particular chair. I recall his predecessor was terminated from a tenured position during #metoo.
How is this situation any different from other situations, in any sector or industry, where any disgruntled employee that doesn’t get promoted, and who doesn’t share the complete results of their performance reviews with the public. In those situations, most people will know that the employee is withholding aspects of their review to garner sympathy. Shame on the BON for their non critical approach and playing the race card.
Orchestras have a long history of discriminating against women and Black musicians. The reason there are blind auditions is precisely because orchestras admitted that the reason their members were virtually all white men was because of discrimination. So it’s not like orchestras have a history and reputation for fair and equitable hiring. And the fact that they have to keep the auditions blind speaks to everyone acknowledging that there’s ongoing unconscious bias.
Further, despite the blind audition, only 1.4% of orchestra musicians are Black (according to the League of American Orchestras). You’re really going to tell us with a straight face that some level of discrimination isn’t persisting?
But let’s put racial discrimination aside for a moment. Only 40 percent of US orchestra musicians are women. Once again, you really don’t think some level of discrimination is at play here, especially with conservatories trying so hard to have gender parity (in fact, some like the Cleveland Institute of Music have more women than male students!).
To say that discrimination doesn’t continue to affect the orchestra hiring process means that you believe white men are inherently superior musicians.
Well, that escalated quickly
Also, kind of sad to issue such an outcry for a position that pays so little in an organization that has as much relevance to American culture as whoever is playing empty beer bottles in central park this week.
Seriously, is this the best people of color could aspire to? Be poor in a mostly white organization?
The socially clever thing to do would be to retrain, use the clear intelligence this player has, be a much more productive member of society and then become a patron of the orchestra to watch snobs pretend what they are doing is important. With enough money these monkeys will even program a “rap at the symphony” travesty. These organizations are circus acts with a high sense of self importance.
Oh the fun one could have!
Aspirational inequality leads nowhere….
You referred to people of color as “monkeys”?! Are you living in 1862? You’re reprehensible. How dare you insult African Americans in such a way.
You have ZERO class.
You clearly have difficulties in reading comprehension. I called orchestra musician monkeys in a circus that only do as their master or the times tells them to do, under the wrapper of “but its the arts”.
Looks like listening to Mozart never helped you with reading. Who would’ve thunk…
Not a single word of either of your posted comments make any sense whatsoever. You have added nothing but pedestrian observations on a subject that is obviously beyond your realm of comprehension. Your attempt to backtrack any racist content is futile.
Pays so little? No relevance to American culture? I believe you are mistaken. The recent hiring of Matthias Pintscher would also suggest otherwise. This is an excellent orchestra on the rise… they have been for decades.
If you allow someone post something this offensive why do you bother to screen them?
irrelevant? And yet here you are reading and commenting on a blog that’s all about the classical music business.
Where is the Sphinx Organization on all of this? Their lack of involvement has me seriously questioning the credibility of this claim. Also, no specific examples of racism were mentioned in the letter.
Sphinx? Oh, they are busy giving $50,000 checks to Titus Underwood and Anthony McGill for Blaxcellenty taking a knee, while students that need $$ to fly to auditions, summer festivals, etc, are told to beg elsewhere.
There’s almost always an unwritten quota system for people of color. Sometimes it’s quite visible. You’ll notice some companies, musical organizations, corporations, etc. always have no more than a certain number of blacks. And every other black person that applies, no matter how good they are, will not be accepted or if they are accepted , they will be harassed by various micro aggressions that are difficult to prove to be racist. At the same time one or more of the blacks already at the institution may be treated especially well, given some reward, promotion, or singled out for some special project. That is done to “cover their posteriors” in case the new black person accuses the institution of racism. “See? How can you say we’re racist when we just promoted, honored ,etc. Mr or Ms So & So”. I’m a black baby boomer retiree and have seen that tactic used many times over my career. In fact, when I was still in high school and college, I heard this situation discussed many times among family members & family friends.It was called the “ too many blacks” problem.
I know nothing about the particulars of this, and have no opinion on whether the action is justified. I do know that the position of Principal Percussion in a symphony orchestra usually has a significant administrative component. The Principal Percussionist has to apportion the percussion parts of each work among the percussionists in the orchestra, and occasionally additional players in works with a large battery of percussion instruments.
When the Chicago Symphony played my music, our extraordinarily able Principal, Cynthia Yeh, figured out a way to use only three percussionists, although my score had originally called for four. She had to study the score very carefully to come up with this; this is a part of the job not obvious to the public. On occasion, there will be instruments required in a work that the orchestra does not own, and often it is the Principal Percussionist’s responsibility to arrange to rent these.
I have no way of knowing if Mr. Jones struggled with this part of the job; for all I know he acquitted himself quite well and there is another explanation for his being let go, or no good explanation at all. But it is a possible explanation for why he may not have been given tenure even if he admirably fulfilled what was asked of him as a musician.
It is certainly a very unfortunate turn of events.
Nicely said Max.
Not sure if this was an issue with the CSO horn position, but there is more to being a principal player than just being a good musician.
Leading a section and the personalities within, putting in bowings in time for parts to be distributed, working with librarians, conductors, and other principals, promptness and willingness to work outside of the service. Just a few to note.
These are all qualities that do not come out in an audition and weaknesses appear only over time when the candidate is in the job on a daily basis.
That said, it’s rather vague why this candidate is being let go.
Neither side has stated it’s position on the inputs of this decision and I doubt those will be made public for obvious reasons starting with the Legal Department.
None of the scenarios you mentioned manifested during the probationary period for Josh Jones tenure opportunity with the KCS.
How do you know that? Did you play with him in KCsymphony?
Did YOU?
So I take it you are not a colleague of his in the orchestra, considering you didn’t answer my question. How do you have any idea what actually happened, or what it was like to work with him? Just because a musician has accolades and posts videos every day doesn’t mean they are all that they seem. I would like to know why you feel you can speak on this subject so definitively.
I could ask you the same question: why do you think YOU can speak so definitely?
In this thread, you’ve spoken in hyperbole about how musicians are all just a bunch of woke lefty liberals. But NOW, in a different response, you’ve decided to be more inquisitive. This, after stating very clearly that you had it all figured out.
Read the very recent KC Star article which includes an interview with Josh, stating concerns he has had, and also specifics about his tenure denial.
As for my opinions stated here, I was privy to certain procedures for various reasons that I’ll keep confidential. Additionally, simply perusing social media pictures, posts, and comments from Josh’s colleagues gives insight to their relationships with him. There was a pic of Josh with his associate principal percussionist, with the 2 of them standing with arms around one another at Symphony in the Flint Hills. Another pic was posted last December by someone I know who plays extra percussion in the orchestra with Josh. The pic shows 5 very happy musicians celebrating a quality performance. I’ve also had person to person communications with Josh, but beyond that, I’m not sharing anything else. I’ll keep specifics to myself, and speak generically in order to keep his confidence out of respect.
So, having answered your question: please tell us about your so called access to Josh. How much time have you spent onstage with him? How much time have you spent in the audience of concerts he performed? If you’re taking me to task, take yourself to task as well.
Because you’ve certainly “spoken definitely” in this thread as well.
I’ve read so many comments suggesting that this must have been a decision based on racism. He’s black, and that’s why he didn’t get tenure. Really? Like, really?! I have an amazingly talented Jewish friend who was recently denied tenure in a major orchestra. I don’t see everyone jumping to the conclusion that the people making the decision must be anti-Semites! A key question: Was a screen in place for the entirety of Josh’s audition? Because if not, then the orchestra knew they were hiring a black musician and this so-called claim that he was denied tenure for being black simply doesn’t hold any water. Many extremely talented people get denied tenure in orchestras for reasons that go beyond talent. How does the musician handle the job behind the scenes? Is he/she responsible and organized? Does the player have exceptional ensemble skills? Very often players with technique up the wazoo come along, but they struggle to sound good on stage or fit in properly to the way the orchestra plays. For example, having all the talent in the world doesn’t make you an exceptional chamber musician. I find it absurd that, without any knowledge of the situation, people so easily jump to the conclusion that racism is to blame. In a way, it’s actually REVERSE RACISM to assume without any knowledge of the situation that the reason the people on the committee denied him tenure is because he’s black. Grow up, people. There are many reasons great players don’t get tenure. It happens all the time, and I find it hard to believe that, at the Kansas City Symphony, those decisions are made based on the color of one’s skin.
There’s a problem here that doesn’t deserve derisive comments from either side. Overt racial discrimination – the kind that says “we don’t hire your race” – took far too long to die in the US, but it is dead, and has been for at least two generations. Covert discrimination, the kind that can morph into undefinable reservations about how someone “fits in,” whether someone’s “leadership” feels right, etc., is still alive.
The problem is that it is usually both undefinable and genuinely unconscious, and therefore impossible either to prove or to refute unless some overt indicator of racism is present in the situation. Any time a black person gets a disappointingly low grade or an adverse decision on promotion or employment, it COULD be a decision tainted by prejudice — but it could also be a reluctant decision by people who genuinely wanted the person to succeed, who perhaps even made judgment calls in his or her favor at earlier points, and came in the end to a sincere but disappointing conclusion. And the question is — how to sort such things out?
The fact is that delicate decisions hinging on human judgment are largely incompatible with the kind of transparency and record-keeping that we can use in other situations to prove or disprove discriminatory behavior. There is no clear answer to this problem.
I’m curious. So, if a white person doesn’t pass probation, do they contact the White Orchestra Network?……
Win with WON!
No, they contact the musician’s union and also an attorney. It’s called exercising your rights.
I support the current thing
No one mentioning the equally deserving white woman who was denied tenure in the violin section along with Josh. Where is the outrage for her? Sometimes it just doesn’t work out.
Let’s put the racism issue aside (good luck with that!). An orchestra with a quality black musician, or more than one, should thank its lucky stars. They are still rarities in the classical world, and should be welcomed with open arms. Diversity has become a huge issue these days, and many concert-goers scan orchestras for people of color. If a black musician is hired through blind auditions, and then performs to the satisfaction of conductors (as witnessed by Stern’s letter) and fellow musicians and audiences, then the decision to not grant tenure must have been made for some flagrant reasons. If not (as seems to be the case here), then a major error was made by the committee that will send him packing. More than that, it has given the organization and the orchestra a black eye, so to speak. One wonders if Symphony audiences will start a campaign in support of him (as happened in Denver when the concert-master was let go – petitions and pickets followed, and the decision was soon reversed).
I think it’s worth nothing that there are two other black members of the Kansas City Symphony.
It certainly speaks volumes about where the KCS stands on diversity in terms of reality. They can post statements about equality all they want. Actually applying equity in the process to retain African-American musicians in their ensemble is an entirely different task.
If the goal of a symphony orchestra is to remain or become as accomplished as possible, “Equity” has no place in it. That is a euphemistic term that means allowing factors other than what is best for a particular organizations goals to determine quotidian mechanical and aesthetic decisions. When that is done with the jaundiced eye of DEI, the results are always compromised. As it is now commonly said, FAFO. Annheuser-Busch did.
So now, your derisive and racist views are going to include referencing the Bud Light commercial with a transgender spokesperson? Are you SURE you’re an orchestral musician, because it sounds like you would be more comfortable playing a banjo concert, and then driving yourself home in that Dodge Charger with a confederate flag and the words “General Lee” painted on the roof…
I see that analogy is not your strong suit. Now that you want to make things personal, it is clear that your arguments have been routed. Here’s a hint: if you want to get things done, try to win over allies instead of alienating them.
Says the person in this thread who used the anachronism “FAFO”.
You’re toxic. Seek help.
I live in Kansas City and attend concerts regularly- if I remember correctly, the orchestra had hardly played a lick together by November 2021 (they had a long hiatus due to the pandemic). If he was hired during or right before the pandemic, Maestro Stern would not have had the full picture of Mr. Jones’ playing and administrative skills at that point.
Something is very fishy about this protest.
Maestro Stern would have had the full picture of Mr. Jones playing and administrative skills after JUST 1 PERFORMANCE. You attend concerts regularly? I’m a principal percussionist in a professional orchestra. I can assure that it takes no time at all to fairly evaluate a musician. Most conductors can determine those factors after only 1 rehearsal. It’s not some big mystery.
I see your point, but I don’t entirely agree. What if that one performance was Dvorak 9? Brahms 4? Bruckner 7? Debussy Afternoon of a Faun? The MD certainly wouldn’t be able to have a full picture of a player’s playing skills (much less their administrative skills) after a week like that.
No offense, but referring to the St. Joseph Symphony as a “professional orchestra” is a bit of a stretch.
At least I’m man enough to make my online presence obvious, while YOU choose to hide behind the cowardice of anonymity …
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ad%20hominem
That is simply inaccurate. A single rehearsal or performance is entirely inadequate. That is why audition lists contain excerpts of works written across the centuries and spanning different styles. One performance of Beethoven would reveal limited information about any adequate. Ken, are you sure you’ve actually taken an audition?
I never said auditions were the only basis for evaluation. Josh has played in KC for almost 3 years. He auditioned during the pandemic and won Principal Percussion.
The orchestra returned to the stage full time about a third of the way through his tenure process, and he has had nothing but accolades locally, as well as guest performances with other orchestras.
Anyone, however, who says that a conductor, or other musicians cannot effectively evaluate musicianship in short order, is lying to themself. The comments about this situation that have been made in this thread, are that playing skills are not the only consideration for a Principal position. Organizational skills, running the section, assigning parts, etc. Those also apply. Which most likely means this: Josh has colleagues who are closeted racists who have observed his work as a leader, and they most likely did not like seeing a black man in a position of authority giving guidance to white musicians whom he outranked.
Yes, for the record, I’ve auditioned more than my own fair share. Have YOU ever participated in any Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion training? Because you sound like you grew up on your Mommy & Daddy’s plantation…
If a conductor can adequately judge a musician, then why are we doubting Stern’s decision to not grant him tenure?
Because of the very probable situation involving the tenure committee of making that recommendation based on racial bias. A conductor can override a tenure committee, they have that power. The KC Symphony and many other American orchestras need immediate solutions to include DEI training for their musicians, staff, and management. It’s that simple, and obvious.
But stern didn’t override the committee. Read the cba… music director has final say
Again, how do you know the decision was based on “racial bias”? Your conclusion has no founding based upon everything we know about this publicly. If you have information strongly indication bias, present it, otherwise all you have is your hyper-emotional inference.
Tenure committees of serious, professional orchestras cannot just publicly release the exact reasons why a member did not receive tenure. All of that information is confidential except to the musician, the committee, and Music Director. Likely Josh knows exactly why he didn’t get tenure, but is choosing to exploit their disadvantaged position as the orchestra cannot defend itself against his claims without violating their CBA. I was a member of an orchestra for 33 years and served on many audition/tenure committees. An orchestra like KCS will always have a thorough system in place for granting tenure or risk serious problems with the union.
“Serious problems with the union”. Laughable.
The American Federation of Musicians Local 34-627 in Kansas City has an office staffed by a couple of 80 year old men… What are they gonna do? Secretly spike Stern’s water glass with a double dose of Metamucil?
You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about nor any substantive reason to criticize the Local KC union board
The
local KC union board is now, and always has been, tilted in favor of regulating the gig activity of local jazz musicians. Aside from offering help to orchestral players, they can do that, but once the CBA is in place and the contracts have been signed, their influence is limited. Why pray tell, do you feel so qualified to assert that you know what “you’re talking about”. Are you implying that the KC Local 34-627 is an active organization that bravely advocates for musicians in town? Because aside from collecting dues and issuing union cards, they really do NOT do very much at all. Josh might get some valuable information from their legal counsel, but that doesn’t really have a lot of teeth. They’re very passive.
Perhaps you can answer this question I posted earlier:
Does anyone know if Mr. Jones received any assistance from the local musician’s union or the A.F.M.? Thanks!
The level of ignorance concerning racism that is behind every single post in this thread that speaks in support of the KC Symphony, is exactly the sort of ignorance that BOM, the NAACP, and even the United Negro College Fund have been fighting against for decades. Racism is a social institution that is embedded in both the conscious and subconscious thought processes of all Americans regardless of the color of their skin. To say that there is one level of racism is fraught with even more ignorance. There are KKK members in this country, and there are also subversive racists. There are people who purvey to the manner of subtle racism that manifests in comments about how “people prefer the company of those who are most like them” etc etc etc. There is that subtle racism of the American suburbs. There are MANY country clubs with only 1 black golfer on the course, and there are many Symphony Orchestras with only a couple of black musicians on stage. The most OBVIOUS indicator of this subtle racism is ALWAYS a statement of this sort: “Well, we all know that racism really doesn’t exist anymore. Unless it is people being violent or what not.” People: wake up! Racism is not something so obvious as someone spray painting racial epithets on someone’s house. Racism is not something as simple as people being openly rude to someone who is black, or hispanic. Racism is a system that was put in place in 1619 when the Atlantic slave trade began in earnest. That system made itself clear, in that black people would be defined as property. When any society lowers the status of an entire race to the same as cattle, it will surely take longer than a few centuries to repair that mistake. What is ALSO obvious is that in ALL cases where people claim they are treated unfairly as a result of racism, it is ALWAYS the institution or entity treating those people unfairly that declares “this ISN’T racism!”
Racism is a claim that ONLY the victim can allege. Racism is NOT defined by the perpetrator, it is defined by the recipient.
White society continues to justify institutionalized racism in the 21st Century by giving the overwhelming lion-share of the “shadow of the doubt” to white society. That is ABSURD. That is as ridiculous a concept as say, scheduling a Super Bowl Game, and saying that the offensive QB will call all the pass interference penalties. That is unfair.
Josh Jones, for some trumped up reason, has been denied tenure in the KC Symphony. To assume that he is in the wrong, and that a systemized institution of racism that has been embedded in American society for over 400 years is NOT to blame? THAT is the definition of social ignorance. The elites trying to hold onto their waning era of white majority rule are currently going berserk as they watch America slowly but surely lose that white majority by 2050 or so. THAT is what these stories are about. White society has seen quite the OPPOSITE of the “end of racism” recently. There has been a resurgence of racism during 2015 – 2023. It is proof positive how the most pathetic people, when attempting to cling to their unfair advantage of power, established only by their white skin, will make up ANY excuse to justify why the dominance of American culture by Anglo-Saxon European people should continue. If you’re one of those people, you should be ashamed of yourself. But you’re not ashamed. Because you are the type of people who revel and find glory within yourselves, ONLY as a result of subjugating others. Conscious or subconscious. Overt or covert. It does not matter. Guilt still applies. There is now, always has been (and as a result of those ignorant efforts) will continue to be examples of racism that withhold opportunity to people of color. Keep in mind however, that every racist person in this nation will be held accountable by those of us who can see quite clearly through the smoke screen you choose to hide behind. And if you yourselves never choose to change for the better? So be it.
America will change without you, and a future will manifest in which racist ideas will one day be just as forgotten as the pathetic lives you once lead. No one will remember you. No one will care. The villains are forgotten over time. Heroes, however, become immortal. That’s why we have Martin Luther King Jr. Day in January. NOT Jefferson Davis Day in June. Winners are celebrated. Not losers.
Though I think Black Orchestral Network is a bullying organization, this comment here is horribly racist and traumatizing to read on here.
Well I could say that I’m traumatized on a daily basis since I’m constantly blamed for everything simply because I’m a White man that won’t bow down to things like toxic feminist ideologies or anti-White agendas.
Sometimes the facts aren’t pretty, namely that African-Americans and the Sub-Saharan Negroid have low mean IQs according to unbiased scientific research). However, constantly sweeping facts proven by science under the rug is what leaves people confused and society in a mess. People with low IQs need to blame Mother Nature, not the White man or anyone else. Let’s stop the insanity. Is it MY fault as a White American that Africans in Ivory Coast use beaches as toilets? What happened to the concept of self responsibility? Identify issues and then find the means to fix those issues just like civilized groups do. Don’t constantly blame others for your laziness or lack of capabilities…that’s childish. Like it or not, Trump’s comment on Haiti was spot on. There are videos coming out of that country showing people with machetes mutilating corpses and laughing as they do it! Is the White man somehow responsible for that as well? Let’s stop the woke insanity.
Of course there are Black “outliers” that provide true value as musicians. A true racist wouldn’t even acknowledge that reality. However, to allow a bunch of “fourth graders” to bully other races through intimidation tactics and let them constantly play the race card will absolutely turn the US into the next Brazil (we are already headed in that direction). Stores in California are huge targets of daytime thefts due to recent changes in laws. This literally encourages people to steal as everyone else watches helplessly in horror. But I know…some woke liberal will counter this saying, “Well this indicates just how much the Black people have suffered due to the White man. They don’t have access to the resources that you and I receive thanks to our White Privilege Membership Club cards.” That right there is toxic racism because it makes the assumption that Black people are powerless in a democracy. Even if we assume that the mean IQ of African-Americans is 85, this doesn’t prevent them from choosing to be ethical. The fact is that many are simply making an active choice to be straight-out thugs while attempting to blame the White man for it. It literally reinforces the stereotypes that they are attempting to get rid of.
What I find to be funny is how no one talks about how racist Black people can be. For example, it is no secret that the jazz legend Miles Davis showed his racism and hatred for Whites throughout his career. There are other Black musicians who are also racist claiming that only Blacks can play jazz since jazz-related tribal rhythms are encoded in their DNA. Why is nothing ever said about that very out-in-the-open anti-White racism? Perhaps because it doesn’t fall in line with the current narrative? So now hypocrisy is allowed. NICE!!!!!
It boils down to this: Blacks, namely African-Americans, are upset because some Whites and other races will not tolerate bad behavior. Well…too bad! They can attempt to put whatever liberal spin they want on it…doesn’t change a thing.
With a US black population at 13.6% how do you come up with numbers that would make orchestras numerically balanced? That doesn’t make sense.
73% of the NBA is black. Where is the white outcry? Where is the humanity?
Blind auditions are standard, therefore it is impossible for Orchestras to be “numerically balanced” in the insipid manner you’re suggesting.
The issue here is tenure. The KC Star article this week states that Stern had no concerns about Josh in terms of part assignments in the percussion section. It states that Stern advised Josh to “keep the percussion room tidy”.
Then, and only when it was in closer chronological proximity to making a final decision on his tenure, Stern informed Josh that because of his part assignments on a SINGLE PIECE, that new concerns had arisen.
That’s called “Texas Rules Softball”. One strike, and you’re out. What total billshit. The KC Symphony is recognized nationally. But they are not World Class. Josh has World Class percussion skills. So in the final analysis, he has been dismissed by an orchestra that is beneath him, for trumped up reasons. The tenure committee has obviously overreacted.
That is a red flag indicating racism. African Americans, due to inherent bias, are held to hyperbolic standards. They are given no margin for error in the workplace. Read a book on the subject. Educate yourself. I recommend “Color Blind” by Ellis Cose. Speak from knowledge.
Not ignorance.
Hi Ken- On another note, most professional musicians I know are blatantly woke, leftist extremists, BLM supporting, Sphinx followers, and protest everything for diversity, equality, and inclusion. You obviously do. So how then, can there be all of this inherent racism and exclusion, when most of these orchestra members and orchestras ascribe to this utter bull$hit as you do? What does that say about you all? You all make for a fabulous episode of Black Mirror. Who’s the director?
Rest assured, many of my orchestral colleagues are not the generic people you describe. Plenty of them are conservative, and plenty of them are Trump supporters. When you make blanket statements about any segment of people in society, it always comes out the same: uneducated assumption.
The level of presumption in every sentence of the above screed renders it null. The only way it is possible to agree with you is if one believes every single posit made and that is impossible because you are simply wrong.
In symphony orchestras it is not sufficient to merely be the best player; one must also be right for the position and that determination has to be made by those who understand that unique environment best. Orchestras want and seek the best players but “best” is an elastic adjective. Every orchestra is different and it is not an exaggeration to say that what can get you hired over here can get you fired over there. No, not the level of playing nor the race or ethnicity of the applicant. There are broad and sometimes dichotomous factors at play and in a specialized profession like orchestral classical music playing, most people (and I suspect you) will never be capable of understanding that. Do you really believe that in our current social environment that a qualified black player would be rejected when orchestras are resorting to extreme contortions to recruit and support them? We all know that answer. Thus, you are reduced to that most simplistic and inflammatory of conclusions in which you lustily indulge. You’re definitely not helping AfAm classical musicians.
I will say this about orchestral auditions: if there is any bias at all, it can be argued that relatives or students of the concertmaster or section leaders have a suspicious record of audition victories.
Whether a musician or not, we will not conquer the scourge of racism in music or in any other field until everyone, no matter their race or ethnicity, refuses to practice it. You have a long way to go.
Actually, the only person lacking in comprehension here, is YOU. Your reply to my post is proof positive as stated in my post: white America knows VERY little about the concept of equity. White America chooses to extend the benefit of the doubt to itself. White America has always made the rules, and white America continues to hide behind subtle racism, as well as blatant racism. Half of these posts contradict one another: some say “there is SO MUCH MORE than musical skill that determines orchestra tenure”. Then, another half says “a player’s skill should be the ONLY consideration”. Why don’t you all get your cover story straight, come up with the same BS excuse and lies, and THEN chime in.
What America doesn’t understand is why you insist that you should be treated differently. It seems that you have a psychological disposition to see racism behind every dynamic and it simply just isn’t so. That is not America today and it is well past high time to move on. Realizing that on this subject no amelioration is possible with you, unfortunately, you must be left to your personal disappointments which are plainly based in enmity rather than reality.
I don’t insist that I should be treated differently, I’m a white man. It’s very telling that you made the racist assumption that I was black. What I insist upon, is that the people I care about, my colleagues, friends, and fellow musicians, are treated equitably. Clearly, you DO NOT care.
Well, as a white man, you are not helping.
I don’t offer help to fascists. You’ve got that covered.
Being denied tenure is never easy and definitely a dark side of the business. The musicians union is the proper way to fight this. That said, does he really want to continue working with colleagues who don’t want him there? Time to take an honest assessment of what really happened so you can learn from it, move on, and win another (hopefully better) job. He’ll be happier in a place where he’s appreciated. I know that first hand from experience. Good luck Josh!
Exactly. Why on Earth would someone want to stay where they aren’t wanted?
Maybe for, oh I don’t know, the salary, the pension, the health insurance?
Can we just close our eyes and enjoy the music we are listening to at concerts?
I know several musicians who have not been granted tenure for a variety of reasons. None of them were black musicians and it was never about race. What proof do they have it was about race? So black musicians automatically need to get tenure if orchestras want to avoid public backlash and extortion? This is absolutely ridiculous and will only make people hesitant to hire black musicians in order to avoid accusations of racism later!
Well this is interesting…
Josh Jones is a phenomenal player with the kind of nerdy qualities that is required in this type of job. It’s evident that his playing wasn’t the primary concern.
We may never know what the reasons for his tenure denial are, though if it’s “leadership” as stated by his section colleagues, it’s worth bearing in mind that every one of his section colleagues also auditioned for his position, so a conflict of interest is not that far of a reach insofar as the committee makeup is concerned. I’ve heard a rumour that they even allocated a vote to a regular extra player in the section, someone not tenured with KCS who was also in the running for the position.
On the other hand, at the end of the day tenure comes down to this: does the orchestra feel at ease working with you for the foreseeable future. I’ve heard of many excellent players who were denied tenure on the reasoning that they were just not pleasant people to be around, and that is fair. You are, afterall, selecting your colleague for life. What we aren’t being told is whether there were any significant disagreements between Mr. Jones and his colleagues during the review period. I wonder if the committee members would be interested in making public their reasons for voting to deny his tenure. If their reasons are held to public scrutiny, it may be easier to determine whether foul play was involved.
The KCS would not allocate votes to substitute players. That is an absurd rumor. No US orchestra, anywhere, would do that. Tenured members of an orchestra like this are allowed to grant tenure.
1st off anyone who was “in the running” for the position would not be included in the tenure committee, and certainly an extra player would never get a vote. You are the wrong end of a long game of telephone.
What do committee members stand to gain from making their comments public. Who on earth would put themselves in harms way of volatile online scrutiny?
This comment is a microcosm of this whole controversy. A limited hangout of information that is loosely based around the truth.
Think critically before you speak.
A recent brass audition in the Chicago symphony resulted in the player not getting tenure. A recent wind player in the KCS didn’t get tenure. This is normal for many incredible musicians. Players are not the right fit for musical reasons or in principal roles, the player isn’t ready to deal with the section responsibilities of the job. Organizations can grant tenure early, normal contracted tenure, and give extensions, if certain aspects of the players job need to be ironed out. How many extensions was Josh given in this tenure process that began 3 years ago??? There has been no publication of his tenure letter, which is usually confidential, but things like that usually get allowed when DEI has a chance to blow its trumpet fanfare. In this case, I’m guessing that letter is clear as to why, but would offer little ammo to the cause. Now, let’s talk about Sphinx and the $50,000 awards they give their members that have jobs and have “made it” in the industry, when the organization was built to give support/financial help to those that are struggling.
For what it’s worth, and fully aware that the situations are quite different…an excerpt from “Notes of Seven Decades”, the excellent autobiography of conductor Antal Doráti:
>> Even I have to confess that, in spite of my rigorous principles on quality, I once succumbed to the temptation of being — what? Sympathetic? Helpful? Human? Or just catering to my own vanity by being “good”?
It doesn’t work.
In one case I accepted an applicant, not as a regular member of the orchestra, but as an “orchestral fellow”, a quasi apprentice position lasting one year, after which the fellow must go through the normal auditioning process if he wishes to apply for a vacancy if there is one. Well — I accepted him because he was black. He was not proficient enough, but I thought that in a year he might make enough progress to attain full professional level, and I took a chance. I was wrong, and did more harm than good by allowing other than strictly professional considerations to prevail.
The fellow did not make the grade, although he was given the fairest possible opportunity. I rooted for him, biting my fingernails throughout the entire audition. A symphony orchestra — as I knew only too well — is not a school, and its members cannot be selected on the basis of future development only. I had hoped to the last minute that my optimistic estimate should be proven correct, but no: he could not become a regular member. Thus, I had caused, out of what I thought was “goodness” but was in fact nothing but weakness, much heartbreak and embarrassment.
(I should have included the fact that this was from his days as music director of the Detroit Symphony.)
https://americanorchestras.org/anti-black-discrimination-in-american-orchestras/
No one disputes past discrimination in symphony orchestras or the classical music world generally. There is no question that that is firmly in the past. The paucity of representation of people who comprise ca. 12% of the US population have several factors that have been much discussed. Racism is not one of them. However, the number of qualified candidates is. The single factor that leads to an elite symphony job is being good enough and that is extremely hard to do for people of any background. If you’re going to cry racism every time you don’t get a job, you are not going to have a happy career or one at all. Grow up.
I sincerely doubt you would ever speak so harshly in a public setting, face to face, with other people. Congrats on being able to hide the callous nature of your racism behind an online smoke screen. The only people buying your “tough love” routine are others who are likeminded in their own subjugation of non-whites. You reek of the white privilege that has rewarded you time and time again, even though it’s beyond obvious that you’re oblivious to it.
That’s what you call harsh? If you deem that harsh, you do not have the hardened grit to be in the classical music business or any business that calls for high function. Go home; your fainting couch awaits.
I’ve visited this website multiple times this week, and each an every visit has been an opportunity to experience not less, but more & more examples of the racism that exists in the orchestral world. Some examples have been vehemently stated, others have been more subtle. The obtuse viewpoints that have abounded herein have been demoralizing to me. Except that in the end, I am able to rely on my own morals to keep me from losing hope. Any person who has engaged in a gaslighting narrative that employed any of the following phrases? You are guilty of being ignorant of the current expectations in the pursuit of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion.
1 Referring to racism in the “Past Tense”
2 Micro-aggressive statements about race
3 Using the phrase “Playing the race card”
4 Claiming that others are “oversensitive”
5 Stating that you “don’t see color”
6 Using the phrase “all lives matter”
7 Referencing the “12-13%” population of African Americans as a justification for exclusion
These are all of the symptoms of the ongoing problem of racism in America. If you are oblivious to these ideals, you need to reflect on your own viewpoints. These are the most pertinent and well reasoned examples of racist gaslighting that the very best professionals in the field of DEI have established as
the standard bearer for what NOT to say when discussing racism. If you decide to miss your opportunity to learn and grow, and change, that’s your own fault. There are plenty of enlightened people in this world who are willing to listen and grow and change for the better. I count myself among those ranks.
“If you’re not part of the solution, then you’re part of the problem.” Many of you simply will not care to read my post with any sense of consideration. For those that do, I hope you take the first steps towards a greater awareness. For those that don’t? A meteor killed the dinosaurs. Your racist views are killing you, from the onside out. It’s a cess pool. It’s a cognitive disease.
God help you.
Ken, he simply didn’t get tenure…. Give up the melodrama
Another example of racist gaslighting. Give up the Confederacy.
“Give up the Confederacy.” Is this the language of “subtle intimidation” you mentioned?
No, it’s how I respond to any person who thinks we’re still fighting the Civil War…
They certainly lauded him with all kinds of praise when he was standing behind that screen during blind auditions…
https://kcindependent.com/simply-the-best-symphony-rejoices-at-landing-one-of-americas-finest/
Hi Ken- while I really admire your support of this man in question here- I’m curious to know if it might be possible that he played an amazing audition, but didn’t have the organizational and ensemble skills for the actual job? People are praising his raw talent(very evident from his social media), and concerti that he’s performed. But those are all solo roles… what do you think? We’ve all heard of instances where great players don’t get tenure for those reasons..
I’ve seen Josh perform live. He has impeccable skills as both an ensemble player, and a soloist. If the KC Symphony tenure committee recommended that he not be granted tenure based on “organizational skills”? That accounts for the following – assigning parts, and coaching the section during rehearsals. In total, that constitutes about 10% of the actual job. I’ve read comments in this thread, that being principal also includes “renting instruments the orchestra doesn’t have”. The KC Symphony has a full array of percussion equipment in their possession. They had a very large “rain machine” on stage this season. So, was Josh not granted tenure because there was some sort of “mixup” with renting that rain machine? I seriously doubt it. 90% of the job is based on how well he plays the music. If he was not granted tenure for some reason that falls into that 10% of responsibility, then most likely, he is being punished for some sort of interpersonal exchange that was unfairly judged. Why? Because of inherent bias, African American people are held to a much higher standard for behavior in the workplace. It is a high bar that no human being could possibly clear. So, in the end that high bar becomes a tool of exclusion, disguised as “high expectations”. If the KC Symphony fails to rescind this decision, then it will serve to prove only one thing: Josh is a world class musician being denied tenure in an orchestra that is not world class. In fact, I’m beginning to wonder if the KCS has any class at all…
Unless you are a member of the KC Symphony this is all pure speculation. Give it a rest.
You’re being obtuse.
Additionally, you are engaging in the common language (“Give it a rest”)
of subtle intimidation. If you had ANY experience with DE&I, you would see that. To say that the KC Symphony is not accountable to the community for it’s current lack of diversity, equity, and inclusion awareness among the members of the tenure committee is akin to embracing the exact sort of policies that have contributed to segregation and racism for the entire history of the United States. Your comment shows your own ignorance for these topics. So please…
Give it a rest.
Again, you fall prey to the sin of presumption. If there was “some sort of interpersonal exchange…”, on what basis do you infer that the issue was “unfairly judged”? Isn’t just as possible for it to have been fairly judged? You do not know but you repeatedly presume unfairness with no basis in evidence in order to make a case for bias. The bias actually resides in you.
You’re hopeless.
Why? Because we’ve already had over 400 years of always giving the benefit of the doubt to white society.
Your continued refusal to extend the benefit of the doubt in favor of Josh Jones or any other black orchestral musician is a case in point example of bias.
Josh is the one extending accusations. Accusations that the tenure committee and stern are contractually forbidden from defending. Josh knows this. Josh is claiming incidents of racism from either the tenure committee or Michael Stern. For any reasonable person to believe him, we will need to see evidence. Because, Ken, at the end of the day, even if Josh suffered from racism to some degree at KCS, he might also not be the right person for the job.
Excepting the fact that even “some degree of racism” in the workplace is illegal. Stands to reason the Symphony has some sort of liability insurance. I’m guessing they will be more than willing to settle out of court.
So, “OL”, I’d call you out by name as you did me, but like so many others who have posted in this thread, you lack the courage to identify. Anonymous racism insures that you won’t be held accountable.
To state the obvious, for centuries, both explicit and implicit bias have been (and continue to be) rampant throughout American culture. This country is only just beginning to address either…and at a woefully slow pace. Classical music education is an extremely lengthy (usually 14-20+ years) and expensive process, demanding huge resources of both time and money. Far fewer people of color than white folk have access to the opportunities, sustained resources and cultural support needed to become a highly skilled professional, so it’s hardly surprising that still so few people of color are represented in the profession in 2023.
As for the specifics of Josh Jones’s situation, there’s no point commenting, speculating on a situation I don’t fully understand. But evidently we have work to do…for many reasons, and if we hope to build audiences that better reflect the society we live in, it’s time to change the reality that this profession continues to be represented and dominated by white men.
Josh Jones and individuals similar to him have been consistently fed the narrative that they are victims, exempt from any wrongdoing. Josh has been coddled by his teachers and diversity fellowship programs, fostering an unjustified belief of entitlement. Throughout his entire tenure, rather than dedicating himself to his profession and future, he has prioritized his online presence and participated in countless musician podcast interviews. It seems that those closest to him are providing misguided guidance, ironically resulting in the detriment of aspiring black musicians due to the current situation and the statement made by BON.
Or… (if you’d take your racist blinders off):
Josh Jones has been given opportunities to learn world class percussion skills.
Josh has been held to high expectations by his teachers and mentors.
Josh has dedicated himself to his profession and future by establishing a taxing regimen during rehearsals and solo practice sessions.
He has established an online presence and appeared in podcast interviews to attract the attention of patrons, and bring in new audience members to the Symphony experience.
Those closest to him are invested in his career pursuits and support him in his expectation to be treated with equity.
BON has made a passionate plea with the KCS to reconsider this mistake, because the future of orchestral performance is in dire need to more diversity and inclusion.
…and that, “truth giver”, is how we talk NORTH of the mason-Dixon Line.
It’s interesting how you immediately resort to calling me racist just because I have a different perspective. I never denied that Josh Jones has talent or that he has had great training. My point is that he has been fed a narrative of victimhood and entitlement, which can be detrimental to his growth as a professional musician. Instead of solely focusing on his craft, it seems that he prioritizes his online presence and obligations outside of his job in KC. While these activities may attract attention, they may also distract him from dedicating himself fully to his profession and responsibilities as a principal. It’s important to have a balanced approach. As for BON’s statement, I understand the call for diversity and inclusion, but it’s crucial to ensure that merit and skill are not compromised in the process.
Please, truth giver, provide a list of how Josh’s merit and skills were compromised?
Additionally, when you stated that he has been fed a narrative? That in and of itself is a racist statement. It reflects YOUR lack of diversity, equity, and inclusion awareness and/or education. There is in fact, no narrative of victimhood. The disadvantages placed upon African-Americans are real and tangible truths, and they are a direct result of the systemic racism imposed upon them by both national, and worldwide institutions of racism.
There is no DIFFERENT perspective. Racism manifests exactly as you have presented yourself. It does not require a white hood and a burning cross to be evident or present in any situation. Read the Kansas City Star article in which Josh is interviewed about being denied tenure. Have more than superficial conversations about racism with your African American associates, friends, neighbors, and colleagues. It’s called enlightenment. It’s called NOT being obtuse. And finally… the most concrete way to foster racism is to ALWAYS give the benefit of the doubt to any institution managed by a white majority. Josh deserves the benefit of the doubt in this situation. Your posts indicate that you have already made up your mind about him. Which means what I have said to you, although you take offense to it, is the most truth that has been given in any dialogue between you and I.
Racism is not a “thing of the past”. It is real, and it is imbedded in the fabric of this nation. Your comments are proof of that. Educate yourself.
I appreciate your passionate response, but I believe there may be some misunderstanding about my perspective. I want to clarify that I never questioned Josh Jones’ talent or skills as a percussionist. My concern lies with the narrative of victimhood and entitlement that can sometimes be perpetuated, not only in Josh’s case but in general.
When I mentioned the narrative, I was referring to the idea that some individuals may be led to believe that they are exempt from any wrongdoing or criticism due to their background or experiences. This can potentially hinder personal growth and development. I understand that systemic racism exists, and I acknowledge the disadvantages faced by African-Americans. However, it’s important to strike a balance between recognizing those challenges and encouraging personal responsibility and professional growth.
Regarding Josh’s prioritization of his online presence and activities outside of his job, I simply meant to highlight the importance of a balanced approach. While online presence and community engagement are valuable, they should not overshadow one’s primary responsibilities and commitment to their profession. This is a consideration that applies to individuals regardless of their race or background.
Lastly, I want to emphasize that I do not automatically give the benefit of the doubt to any institution managed by a white majority. My focus is on evaluating individual merit and skill, ensuring that decisions are made based on qualifications rather than race. It is important to have open and honest conversations about racism, and I am open to learning and gaining a deeper understanding of diverse perspectives.
Regarding priorities, I would have been more concerned that Josh Jones continued to take auditions very publicly for other orchestras during his tenure review process. If I were on his committee, I would notice this and interpret it to mean that he doesn’t really want to work with the orchestra, so I would probably let him go in search of someone who will appreciate the job more.
That’s a great point. I agree that Josh publicly taking auditions for other orchestras during his tenure review process could be seen as a lack of commitment to his current position. While it’s certainly within Josh’s rights to explore other opportunities, it could have influenced the committee’s decision. Tenure is a significant commitment for both the musician and the orchestra, and it’s crucial for both parties to be fully invested in the long-term partnership.
Uh… why would this be a problem? From their website:
“The Grant Park Symphony Orchestra or simply the Grant Park Orchestra is a publicly sponsored symphony orchestra that provides free performances in the Grant Park Music Festival during the summer months in Millennium Park in Chicago, Illinois.”
Get your facts straight. He won an audition to play in Chicago during the summer months only, when the KCS has a reduced schedule in June, basically on hiatus in July & parts of August.
Perfect example of how the most vocal critics here are woefully uninformed…
If you follow his Instagram, you would see that he also took auditions in Baltimore, Cleveland, and Seattle during his time with KCS.
In addition to the auditions in Cleveland, Seattle, and Baltimore, josh also auditioned for the National Symphony, Cincinnati Symphony, and LA Phil during the 3 years with KCS.
Truth Giver, you might as well give up reasoning with Ken. All attempts at a discussion are over when he says “There is no DIFFERENT perspective.” He is incapable of acknowledging that there is always a different perspective and one’s own may be wrong, as Ken’s certainly is.
Sometimes, you just don’t get the job. End of story.
So there’s 2 sides to racism? There’s a “Jewish side to the Holocaust & there’s a Fascist Nazi side”? There’s 2 sides to
the Civil War? The “abolitionist side & the slave owner side”?
You sound like Ron DeSantis or Greg Abbott. What a joke.
Racism doesn’t get any consideration for “fair time”. Racism is not free speech.
Racism is the enemy and that enemy gets no quarter.
Your comments never fail to reveal the vast amount of knowledge you lack on this subject…
Ken, it hasn’t even been proven yet that racism or bias of any kind was the reasoning for his denial of tenure. New sources of info have recently surfaced to support that Josh was well-organized and that the accusations against his leadership were mainly to do with petty disagreements between him and the section. HOWEVER, petty disagreements do not mean racism was at the core of this.
Whether or not it was racism, though, does Josh really want to retain his position in an orchestra that has basically told him “no”? That’s not fair to Josh, who will be demonized by his colleagues for the rest of time. It’s also not fair to the myriads of young players who have also run into the issue of being denied tenure but have had no advocacy group to cause a shitstorm online over this. Josh should have gone through the legal means to defend his tenure, through the AF of M and through a lawyer. Public outcry online will be very embarassing if it arises that there is no evidence for racism at play, and he will be self-blacklisting from most major orchestras as a result. Accusations of racism are serious matters, and should only be brought to public attention after proof has been demonstrated. I’d have a lot more empathy for Mr. Jones’ situation if he lawyered up and sued the orchestra, because at least then he’d be showing that he’s got the bite to match the bark.
One of the most respected principal percussionists in the United States, Douglas Howard, now retired from the Dallas Symphony Orchestra, released a letter in support of Josh, today.
If I have to choose between agreeing with you or anyone else who has posted on this page criticizing Josh Jones? Or agree with Douglas Howard, a living legend in the percussion community?
I’ll choose to agree with Douglas Howard. Any OTHER choice is ludicrous and ignorant.
As for your statements on racism needing to be proven? Nothing is usually proven until it is litigated. And in this case, the red flags that are being flown by KCS management are obvious to all of us who are wise enough to understand that racism is in fact NOT a “thing of the past”. It is still a major problem, and only an enabler of racist policies would give the KCS the benefit of the doubt over Josh Jones.
Some more details available in this article:
https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article275481931.html
It appears as though the conductor who sang his praises had started to gradually notice some issue with his leadership, in particular regarding his assignment of the parts. This is a BIG responsibility for a principal percussionist. Often times, the parts cannot be neatly divided to one-per-player and there is a world of organization that goes behind the split of each concert. The article makes brief mention of Josh’ assignments as being based off the work of the first African American Principal Percussionist in America, whatever that means. We need some clarity, as apparently this was a noted point of scrutiny towards his leadership.
Nevertheless, it looks like Josh has only a few outcomes awaiting him:
1) The KCS reverses his tenure, at which point there is an irreparable rift between him and the section members, who all had tenure at the start of the voting process and many of whom were in the running for this audition, and could use this to their advantage to get a second chance at the job.
2) The KCS doesn’t reverse their decision, but instead restarts the tenure track process. From this point it is unknown whether the committee will vote the same way twice but if they do, then the story ends here and Josh goes on to win another job elsewhere.
3)The KCS doesn’t reverse their decision, and carries forward with Josh Jones being let go from his position.
No matter the outcome, Josh has always been auditioning ever since winning the job at KCS. He may well achieve another final round, unscreened, at which point he has made himself a target for other orchestras to deny him access to important positions on the basis of “we don’t want to hire someone who causes problems within the organization and will bring negative attention to us.”
Sometimes, the best course of action is to simply move on…
The tenure committee is the same committee that listens to the audition. If someone was “in the running” for the position, they would not be on the tenure committee.
They can talk with the tenure committee, they can also be asked for input given that they are section members
https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article275481931.html
I heard the security guard got a vote on the committee
Does anyone know if Mr. Jones received any assistance from the local musician’s union or the A.F.M.?