It’s Bach vs Beethoven, no prisoners taken
Daily Comfort ZoneOn Wednesday, April 26 at London’s Cadogan Hall, I shall be confronting the rapier-like skills of Steven Isserlis in a no-holds-barred Intelligence Squared debate on whether Bach or Beethoven is the more significant contributor to our civilisation.
You can book here and now to be present in person or online, and to vote in the debate of the millenium.
If you’re still hesitating, below you can find a previous contest in which I represented Verdi versus Wagner.
Stephen Fry won that battle on sheer charisma
You don’t need to convince me: Beethoven it is!
When I wake up in the morning, the day ahead is a greater proportion of the rest of my life than the day before. Why then would I spend any of my increasingly precious time on this earth travelling to the Cadogan Hall to hear this pointless debate, albeit between two of my most admired musical personalities?
What’s the point of trying to decide which of two of the most renowned composers on earth is the ‘the more significant contributor to our civilisation’? Who cares? It’s one of those smart-ass ‘how many angels can dance on the head of a pin’ debates, reminiscient of the late, great Hans Keller, who could give a 30-minute talk about the first two notes of a Mozart quartet when the whole work lasts only 25 minutes!
It brings to mind Walt Whitman’s ‘When I Heard the Learn’d Astronomer’. Music is there to enrich our souls. Who cares how it influences the tattered remnants of our civilisation?
Lighten up! It’s just a bit of harmless fun that might perhaps throw up a few ideas which some may not have earlier considered. There was nothing in the Verdi/Wagner debate which swayed me one way or the other, partly because I did not think the cases were particularly well presented (sorry presenters!). But I enjoyed it. And in these times of almost unrelieved gloom and doom, we all need a bit of occasional relief.
angels on pin heads:
Depends on whether they’re jitterbugging or slow dancing.
That sounds like a lot of fun. And talking of fun, I hope the pair of you can at least agree that both Bach and Beethoven shared a sense of humour, as evident in much of their music. 🙂
As a Beethoven fanatic I’ll submit my choice:
J. S. Bach.
No Bach, No Beethoven.
I think the thumbs down represents someone who misunderstood your comment: that without Bach, there never would have appeared a Beethoven.
Thank you, you are correct. The statement is a paraphrase of a Dizzy Gillespie comment. When someone asked him about Louis Armstrong, Dizzy replied; “No him, no me.
Oh I see! Was wondering.
Bach had 20 children, so he contributed in that respect…
Beethoven had some pieces that maybe weren’t at his highest level – but in terms of quality, Bach arguably had the better track record. Not sure Beethoven would’ve been able to write the cello suites. You had his sonatas, but then Bach had keyboard music to match.
Debates are fun. From a competitive perspective, it has the feel of a sporting event and yet, with the mind heightened, it can be a great learning experience. I went back to my video (it’s also on YT) of the city of Vienna celebrating Beethoven’s 200th birthday in 1970 with Leonard Bernstein participating in the celebrations and doing the voice over. In the introduction he said, uncategorically, that “Beethoven is, let’s face it, the greatest composer who ever lived.” Who am I to judge the Rebbe of music? Ludwig Von Beethoven!
Wagnerian here! Lebrecht made a superb case for Joe Green, but well – Wagner!!!! I always weep when Wotan sings his daughter to sleep.
At first, I thought the debate would be otiose, but then I realized that it has a purpose, after all: to extract money from fans.
Without Perotin, no Machaut;
without Machaut, no Josquin;
without Josquin, no Palestrina;
without Palestrina, no Bach,
und so weiter.
How about a debate on whether Mr. Isserlis or Mr. Lebrecht is “the more significant contributor to our civilisation”?
A debate on whether NL or Steven Isserlis was the more significant contributor to our civilisation? For my part, it’s a draw. NL has provided this remarkable blog for us to enjoy – an amazing achievement. For me, this was especially welcome during the lockdown, when we couldn’t venture out and meet our friends.
In my opinion, Isserlis is a magnificent cellist, not content to concentrate solely on the well-established ‘war horses’ but exploring a wide repertoire. I shall never forget his concert at the Wigmore Hall on 16th December 2021; this was my first visit to a live concert since the lockdown. It marked the centenary of Saint-Saens’ death and included a collection of mostly little-known works by him and his contemporaries. Of course, his playing was incandescent but so was that of the pianist Connie Shih – to call her merely an ‘accompanist’ would be to deny her phenomenal virtuosity. Sheer magic! I see that they have recorded the Reinecke cello sonatas and I do hope that Steven Isserlis will soon record his lovely Cello Concerto – which is, I believe, only available on YouTube at present. Try it!
For me, NL, Connie Shih and Steven Isserlis have all contributed handsomely to our civilisation!