Olivier Messiaen: Boulez and I are not really French
mainIn a fascinating 1977 documentary unearthed by Meloclassic, the man who taught Boulez harmony declares that there’s no such thing as a French composer. Every one as far back as Berlioz, he proclaims, is affected by external influences – either German or Oriental.
Watch (en francais).
And see how many of his students you can name.
Post by Meloclassic.
Priceless footage. Brought back memories of Messiaen’s visit to a performance of Turangalila with the RLPO in the 1960s. At the end of rehearsal in response to Charles Groves request for any comments, his reply: ‘Could it be a little more purple’!!
Turangalila: an awful piece, pretentious, overblown kitsch, … really the worst possible abberation of ‘french taste’ if we count Messiaen as a typical french composer. I remember a visit of M to Amsterdam where he coached a performance of one of his bird pieces with his wife at the piano who carried a very long rainbow-coloured trail attached to her dress… It was quite ridiculous. For people, getting wrapped-up in sixties modernism, it was a breath of fresh air, but if you see where they were coming from, not quite a recommendation. The best of Messiaen is, in my opinion, his prewar organ music, which will probably be the only music of his that will endure.
I really like Messiaen’s “Éclairs sur l’au-delà…” and “Des canyons aux étoiles…”. I don’t necessarily “get” his music, but I find it fascinating to listen to.
Rather one bar (any bar) of Turangalila than the entire Borstlapian oeuvre…
I never could resist playing devil’s advocate. In response to Mr Borstlap’s high estimate of Messiaen’s organ music, I submit this account of a conversation with Pierre Boulez from one Gerard McBurney:
“I was escorting him to a restaurant. The rest of the company had moved swiftly, but he was walking slowly, tired after rehearsal. Someone had told me on no account to mention Messiaen. So I did, and he immediately laughed, stopped and looked at me like a schoolboy preparing a whoopee cushion for a grownup.
“Ah, Messiaen, he is for me a big problem … [dramatic pause] The religion … [another pause, shrugged shoulders, and louder] The birds … [louder still, hands raised and in tones of pantomimic horror] Aand … my God … the ORGAN!” There was no doubt which of these three shockers was the worst.”
Is there any country whose art music didn’t reflect outside influences? The French just did it better than any one else. The greatest 20th century American composer was Ravel.
Well….. all members of the (French) Messiaen-family have very old Flemish roots (just look at the familyname!)
Interestingly, you can CHOOSE a cultural tradition, which is not bound to ethnicity and nationality. Cesar Franck was born in Berlgium, Beethoven’s grandfather was Belgian as well, Ravel was half-Basque, Stravinsky’s ancesters came from Poland, as Messiaen’s family tree goes back to the birds.
Interesting. How can you tell that from the name?
You have french people of all origins. It’s not a race ! And his mother was REALLY “french” in your opinion. Her name was Cécile Sauvage and she was a poetess …
What a wonderful surprise to see this footage after all these years. I remember the class being filmed upon occasion but never thought I’d actually see any of the results.
So, yes, I can identify a few of my friends from that absolutely unique year chez Messiaen:
+ Thomas Daniel Schlee
+ Detlev Muller-Siemens
+ Fabian Watkinson
+ Sharon Kanach
+ Bob Priest (me)
Unfortunately, two of my other good amis from the class were absent the day these clips were taken:
+ George Benjamin
+ Vlastimir Trakovic
My, oh my, what memories . . . “Le Maitre” ran those marathon sessions for 12 hours per week (4 hours on Monday, Wednesday & Thursday) with absolutely unflagging energy & enthusiasm. As a matter of fact, Messiaen never took a break once the class got underway!
Seems like yesterday . . .
Thank you, Bob! Do share more memories of that class.
Well, Monsieur Boulez, I don’t see that your music is so much played 60 years after the musical world took notice of it ( Marteau sans maitre, 1954 ) while the Turangalila symphony (1949) is loved and played everywhere ! Frankly we are tired of you and of your intolerance. You will be soon completely forgotten as Stockhausen or Berio are today and for good reasons .
Debussysyste, have you been living under a rock for the past sixty years? And unless you are double-headed please do not say “we”!
Stockhausen and Berio completely forgotten ? Is it a joke ?
Towering composers, along with the likes of Xenakis, Ligeti and Feldman. Truth be told I wouldn’t put Boulez alongside them, but a great man for sure. There’s a blistering live account of the 2nd Sonata from Pollini which is a better introduction to that piece than the commercial recording.