Andras Schiff loses it over toilet breaks
NewsAn audience member’s report from last night’s recital at the Musikverein in Vienna.
Sir Andras Schiff played Book 2 of the Well-Tempered Clavier, having played Book 1 on Sunday. I’m not an expert but it sounded superb and was received with huge applause. Interestingly Sunday was packed. Tonight was less full. After the event, they organized a talk with Sir Andras. It was marketed as a ‘Glass with’. It didn’t help that the Musikverein only had 2 people serving the couple of hundred who attended the talk – and the queue was long and slow to buy your wine. Sir Andras entered before everyone was served. The door from the bar to the Glass Hall was left open to allow those served last to enter. Sir Andras then asked for the door to be shut and get angry when it wasn’t shut immediately – probably not aware that some people were patiently awaiting to be served.
He then vented about noise in general and more specifically about people moving (i.e. leaving) during the concert. (This venting certainly left the audience for the talk feeling somewhat uncomfortable and embarrassed.) In a way he was right. But he played Book 2 without any interval – which was advertised (in small print) to be fair. Most of those leaving were clearly rather elderly. Book 2 takes about 2 hours 20 mins which is a very long time for anyone in somewhat advanced years. The interview did subtly ask him about playing without an interval. He mentioned that the public might like it, eg for a toilet break, but said a break harms the continuity of the music. It was a fair answer – but is it fair to expect an audience which will inevitably have some elderly people to go 140 mins+ without a break – and then complain when some have to leave. I’m not sure what the answer is!
Get Tena to sponsor him.
The answer is that Schiff is trying to uphold pretentious elitism, enough said.
I believe nothing could be further from Schiff’s mind. For those to whom this is ‘foreign’, Schiff lives entirely for music; nothing else matters to him. I have heard him say, countless times: “Without music I would have nothing to live for” and “I love music more than life itself.” “Music is not a career; it is a gift.” I believe him. He is old-world Hungarian, trying to keep up the values with which he grew up. There is nothing deliberately elitist about him. Your remark is cruel and judgemental.
Nonsense. You’ve just defined what elitism is. I live for music too, but I understand that people around me don’t, and respect them for that.
No, it’s just ignorant.
People should always be valued higher then music. Living for music not thinking about people is childish and unseemly.
Schiff is jewish, renounced him being Hungarian on antisemitic issues. His predecessors were embraced by Hungarians. He was born, raised and educated in Budapest, Hungary. He completed his studies at the Liszt Ferenc Music Academy of Budapest, where he could learn not only music but ethics, morality, discipline, tradition etc related to music and great musicians. He could be greatful to Hungarians for his life not only in physical but also in spiritual sense. His music performance is highly appreciated but his behavior is condemned by Hungarian people.
How does one differentiate between ‘pretentious’ elitism and the ordinary sort of valuing the best of its kind? As to the problem presented, normally a theatre would run for not more than 90 minutes without a break, and someone on the production side ought to have had a word with Schiff.
“… the continuity of the music”. It is grotesque to think of Book 2 of the WTK as a single continuous piece. It is about time that certain big names stopped treating audiences as their prisoners.
In wonder when we will see someone arguing to perform ALL the music ever written over the centuries in one sitting without intermission. Because, well, “… the continuity of the music.”
It’s a narcissistic “problem”.
The audience shall not be distracted from me, the great artist. They are mine. No matter how much they paid. They shall sit and be quiet until I say it is over.
Nonsense. Schiff does not see himself as a “great artist.” He is well aware of his own shortcomings. What he does see as great is the music of J S Bach. Why so much nastiness from so many of you?
“Come let us mock at the great…”
He is a damn boring as a pianist. I wouldn’t go to his concert even if being paid for it.
Schiff is good at “MASTERCLASSES” with a lot of talk about himself.
He is – you are right – good at masterclasses, but exactly when have you heard him talk about himself? He doesn’t. He talks only about making music – and I think you know it.
I tried to view and listen to his master class with Beethoven’s OP106….the way he talks says it all.
I AM THE BEST and that’s what comes out of his talking.
This is also where he does his most profound sneering and wincing.
Not sure someone going into a concert that is advertised as not having a break is a prisoner. I tend to avoid 3 to 4 hour director’s cuts in cinemas because I know I won’t stomach it. If you don’t want to sit for 2.5 and listen to Bach – don’t go. Unless your parents are forcing you to, I don’t think anyone else is.
Not to mention that the notion of Books I or II of the WTC having to be played in one sitting so as not to break continuity is sheer nonsense, a flight of vanity and an imposition on audiences with impaired attention spans or aging bladders.
Exactly. Bach most likely never envisioned them to be played in one sitting. Sir Andras should try to become a little less pompous about it all and nurture the idea of entertaining (sic! I know, the horror…) the audiences also.
Agreed. By comparison, Act I of Wagner’s Die Meistersinger clocks in at only 85 minutes. Complete performances of WTC I or II — sans intermission — are marathon endurance events for the audience. A more audience-friendly approach would be to divide the evening into thirds, with two intermissions.
And Act I of Meistersinger is giving a lot of stimulus to all senses, making time pass not too slow. WKII in comparison is a masochistic exercise of trying to focus on – in comparison – monochromatic piano music, if presented in a complete performance.
Bach was actually known to play the entirety of WTC for his students when he didn’t feel like teaching. Still, I agree — I don’t think even he would expect anyone else to do that.
I read somewhere (but now I can’t find it) that sometimes, with favourite students, when he didn’t feel like teaching he would just play his own music, but I don’t recall that he played through the whole WTC on such occasions.
Bullshit. There’s no evidence that he played more than excerpts, and we don’t know in what order. The WTC is an archive of pieces in every key. There was no performing tradition that required it to be played in serial order. It’s a bizarre modern delusion based on late 20th century recordings.
Finally! An attempt to set the record straight! The WTC is an anthology, a compendium, and at no point was it envisioned as a unified cycle. That distinction falls on, for example, The Art of Fugue or The Musical Offering. Allow me to add that Mr. Kenneth Gilbert advanced the idea that the WTC was in effect a set of exercises in the art of transposition for composers and keyboard instrumentalists, a much necessary skill for thorough musicianship. Mr. Gilbert also believed that the instrument had to be properly “tempered” to play in each key and not the other way around which has been passed off as gospel for the last 180 years.
Meistersinger Act I is not the best comparison, think more Act I Götterdämmerung (two hours) or Rheingold and Dutchman, both around 2 hours 2O minutes and never an interval. Everyone knows this in advance so can prepare accordingly. Did the AS’s audience know there’d be no break?
I saw him playing the 2nd book in the Salzburg festival five years ago. There was an interval and I don’t think it hurt the concert -it was fabulous evening in the Mozarteum.
Maybe Sir Andras uses adult diapers himself. He’s pushing 70.
Don’t be so absurd. I know loads of people in their 70s — and 80s — for whose such a thing is an inconceivable proposition. They are healthy, active and going about their business. When you read of Paul McCartney at 80 is that what you think?
Exactly tony Bennett was touring over the
Age of90.
This is a ridiculous remark – and spiteful. I will be 80 next month, and “adult diapers” have not ever entered my mind or my house. You think “pushing 70” is too old to live a normal life? You are wrong. Wake up to the 21st century, please.
Permanent gardening leave sounds like the answer, to me.
I highly doubt Bach saw his cycle as a single continuous work which should be performed without a break…many pianists perform individual selections from it…Richter,Angela Hewitt,Perahia,Olafsson,and many more.I wonder how Sir Andras manages to perform it without nature´s intervention
I highly doubt Bach envisioned his keyboard music for the modern pianoforte, but that does not prevent performers from playing Bach on a modern pianoforte, and even using the pedals (yes, Schiff’s performances of Bach do have some little dabs of pedal — a few years ago, I went to his concert of the partitas at the Wigmore Hall, and I had a perfect view of his feet, so I could see his pedalling very clearly). Performers are not bound to replicate the exact performing conditions (whether aesthetic or material) envisioned by the composer.
As for long performances, 2 hours without a break is definitely within the realms of what is humanly possible for many classical pianists. I have been to several performances of this kind, and have found them to be among the most musically compelling. If you want something truly extreme, you should try going to hear a Morton Feldman programme — some of the works are over 4 hours!
“I highly doubt Bach envisioned his keyboard music for the modern pianoforte”.
Which is why we use transcriptions, which in turn is why pedals should be used, the transcription is for piano, that’s the whole point.
If you are my age,you´ll perhaps understand that it can be not within the realms of what is humanly possible for some pianists..LOL!
It is well know that much of Bach’s music was never intended for public performance. I am not sure what he would have thought about Sir Andras expecting an audience to sit listening to music for over two hours.
he is absolutely right, I understand him very well. there must be at least one person in the world who says: music first! and by the way, as for the length, what about Rheingold, Götterdämmerung, Morton Feldman ?
Music first? Pee first.
Absolutely agree. His audience and critics should have total respect for the concentration necessary to recall the whole of either book from memory. If in doubt, take a good piss before you enter the hall.
I think this is a bit of sarcasm: not reflected in the ratings!
‘Progressives’ don’t do humour.
It cuts both ways. Schiff should also have “total respect” for his audiences and recognize that without them he’s just playing for himself. Sometimes, I think he might be happier that way.
Das Rheingold: point taken. In Bayreuth, it is always played without an intermission. The difference is: the missing intermission is very well known to the audience. It’s not a little hint that you might even find out about after you’ve bought your tickets. Secondly, although I prefer to have an intermission in Das Rheingold, there are good dramaturgical arguments for not interrupting the progress of the story. The Well-Tempered Clavier is not meant to be played in one passage. Most audiences _need_ a break to refresh their _minds_ so that they can follow the musical lines.
BTW: I am not aware that anybody ever tried to play Götterdämmerung without intermission …
I mentioned the first act of Götterdämmerung: two hours.
Music first. Great. So how about people wee in their seats? Nature first. And the classical world needs to take the stick out of their bums. Pompous a$$es.
Sounds it was all about him and not Bach’s intentions or his audience who, without them, wouldnt have needed to be ther, or any of us as performing artists. This sounds like total disrespect for his audience, vanity, and then treating the two books of the 48 to be played in one sitting, which was never intended. This guy is beginning to get on my nerves after his similar late night Prom appearance. Vanity!
‘ This guy is beginning to get on my nerves after his similar late night Prom appearance’… not to mention those lousy Brahms Concerto recordings.
Schiff’s recent Brahms recordings are the best I’ve ever experienced of those 2 concerti. The ”muddiness” of too large an orchestra has disappeared. The performances are truly beautiful, and every critic – that I’ve read – agrees that this is so.
oh boy, HIP infects another great composer’s music. Did the violinists and violists stand, too?
Then don’t listen to him. No-one will miss you.
Again, the tales of SlippedDisc, “full of sound and fury signifying nothing”! Instead of discussing the miracle of Andràs Schiff, they instead really enjoy being petty, gossips instead of admiration of these unique qualities. They never do these hypocrisy “humanistic”considerations regarding Wagner at Staatsoper or Bayreuth. Bach by Schiff is so hypnotic that the more I listen the more I need.
At last, a sensible music lover. Agree with everything you have written. András Schiff IS a miracle. His knowledge, musicianship and dedication are the greatest I have known in almost 80 years.
As Wiitgenstein quipped, “If you want an emetic, there it is.”
He brings it upon himself by being so self-righteousness.
Classical music has a death wish. We are endlessly creative at making people feel like idiots and Philistines when they attend our concerts. And God help the neophyte who claps at the wrong time. Is there another performing arts genre in the history of the world that ever humiliated their patrons for the sin of showing their appreciation?
Well, there are plenty of traditions that place an enormous focus on staying as silent as humanly possible for substantial periods of time. Within the UK, the Quaker movement is an obvious example. Or, if you want a non-Western example, Buddhism has no shortage of silent contemplation. Yet I do not hear many people arguing that Quakers and Buddhists have “a death wish”. Instead, we recognise that their demands for silence are an integral facet of their cultural and religious traditions, and regard these demands as something that should be respected by anyone attending their ceremonies.
Classical musicians would be wise to stay well away from any suggestion that a performance of secular music is a religious ceremony.
As I understand it, both the Quaker and Buddhist tradition tend to be rather tolerant of human frailty. When people don’t comport themselves to the standards you apparently require of concert goers, there is not the instinct to shame. And in any case, in all the hundreds or perhaps thousands of concerts I have played, I never thought of myself as a cleric in a religious ritual. Interesting to choose Quakers, the one group that may have worse demographics than classical music does.
Surely you know that Mozart’s and Beethoven’s listeners clapped whenever they heard something they liked.
I have never seen somebody clapping out of time being humiliated, I wonder where do you go, the rest of the audience simply don’t clap and at most a few people would shush.
How are neophytes supposed to learn the norms of concert attendance without occasionally being shown somehow how one is supposed to behave?
“I have never seen somebody clapping out of time being humiliated…a few people would shush.”
Oh, boy.
If I were “shushed” for the sin of showing my appreciation, whether by “a few people” or by a multitude, I would most certainly feel humiliated. And find some other art form to patronize next time.
Mr. Joshua Bell just performed the Tchaikovsky concerto here in San Juan. He was featured in that bastion of classical music in the Caribbean, the Festival Casals de Puerto Rico. That Festival has existed for 60+ years; some “expectations” for audience behavior have been in place for a long time. Well; lo and behold! Mr. Bell got a loud, standing ovation at the end of the first movement! He had to smile, and actually DID NOT discourage (to me, it seemed like he encouraged) the spontaneous reaction to his [magnificent] playing. On the other hand, the great Simon Trpčeski performed Tchaikovsky 1 here in October, same hall, same orchestra, essentially the same audience. A rapturous ovation only happened at the very end of the concerto, although I do recall a bit of applause that was quickly squelched -I had rather not know how- at the end of movement I. I have recollections here of a pedantic clique that obsessed to display its “sophistication” by wantonly shushing any applause. (Most of them failed to silence their beepers, and later, their cellphones, but that is another issue…) That said, Dr. Charles Rosen had some very perceptive things to say about audience applause and the way contemporary spectators are virtually coerced, gagged and eviscerated by Victorian misconceptions and Wagnerian megalomania. Knowing what I know now, would I applaud at the end of movement I of the Beethoven Violin concerto? No way. But would I applaud after the first movement, say, of Schumann’s Rhenish Symphony in response to an outstanding interpretation? Oh, very much so, and with gusto too.
Going to a Schiff concert these days is not relaxing entertainment. He demands mental and physical commitment of the listener. Also his concert recitals (particularly at the Wigmore Hall) are now becoming curated musicology evenings with his explanations between pieces. You come out exhausted after a long evening but I try not to miss his concerts because his musical insights, and of course his playing, are so good. It’s well worth the discomfort sitting in a chair for so long.
I guess his agent keeps a low profile though about this, because where I live, tickets for lectures on music tend to sell for MUCH less, than actual concerts by great musicians.
His talks are not “lectures on music.” He discusses the music about to be played; the talks are always entertaining, humorous and very informative. They are, as he says, attempts to remove the “mystery” and help audiences understand that musicians are human beings, just as those in the audience are.
Those concerts are hardly “curated musicology evenings.” Listening to true musicology lectures can lead to death by boredom. Schiff is funny, entertaining and educational. Everyone can understand him.
I hate when these performers want to explain what they are going to play and why in such a manner and bla bla bla….annoying.
The answer is that this is one of the reasons why people don’t go to classical music concerts: because basically you’re supposed to stay in your freaking chair for more than twohours without breathing, otherwise you will be labeled as a disrespectful, tasteless human being, unable to comprehend the mystery of music. Oh boy.
András Schiff is one of my favourite pianists and I adore him.. but come on, can’t really back him up on this one.
What about the people who do not go to concerts because they are fed up of others who fail to observe the courtesy of staying as silent as is humanly possible? Speaking personally, I base my concert-going decisions to a significant extent on the reputation of the hall for proper audience behaviour (i.e.: for halls with a reputation for badly behaved audiences, such as the Barbican or the Southbank, I will go to a concert only if the programme and performers are likely to be truly exceptional). For those of us who do not live in the centre of a big city, going to good concerts often entails more time (and potentially money) spent travelling than actually at the concert.
Yes, there are rules of engagement as an audience member, mostly revolving around the very simple concept that you stay as silent as is humanly possible. If you know that you cannot sit through the entirety of a given concert or (where applicable) delineated sub-section thereof, you either refrain from attending or make sure to book a seat within very easy reach of the exit (and from which you can leave quietly and unobtrusively, without the need to squeeze past anybody else and without any rustling of coats and shopping bags…).
Top performers have not only the right but also the duty to insist on proper audience behaviour, regardless of whether a problem is the fault of a few individual audience members or of the hall management.
Even if you are a performer with little or no clout, there are some very simple things you could do: for instance, in solo or chamber-music contexts, you can make sure not to start playing/singing until the audience has stopped fidgeting/talking/whispering *completely*. When a performer stands or sits still on stage with instrument at the ready, he/she conveys clearly that he/she is waiting to start, and most of the audience will get the hint in less than 30 seconds, and most of the rest will take their cue from the hush occasioned by those who got the hint, and these two groups will then shush the tiny minority who persist in fidgeting/talking/whispering. Another very powerful hint is the co-ordinated use of lighting — dim the house lights, and a lot of people will stop talking and pay attention to the stage expectantly.
Well said. I agree with all of it.
The last two concerts I’ve been to the Barbican have been embarrassing, in one Katia Buniatisvili was performing quite a number of small virtuosistic pieces, which for whatever reason, she clearly wanted to play continually without interruptions, but the audience was having none of it and would clap loudly in spite of the obvious clues of Katia about how she wanted to perform the pieces.
Rubbish. Classical music performances have been way to stiff for decades and it isn’t getting any better. He should take his performances to pubs and play on a rotten old upright. That audience would appreciate him just as much as a concert hall.
No coughing, no sneezing (how does one pull THAT off?), no toilet breaks. What should a normal human being do? Choke? Wee in their pants. I’m sure the audience would love that.
No, you just prepare. When I saw the first act of Götterdämmerung was two hours long I had nothing to drink for three hours beforehand. Worked like a charm.
As u say you cannot leave your seat. If iam at
A jazz concert i can go out and get a beer and come back. Nobody cares.
PS- There are more ‘nuanced’ ways to chastise your audience. Anyone recall when Brendel stopped, mid-piece, and asked the noisy audience “Am I too loud for you?”
If performers paid the audience, rather than the other way round, they could ‘chastise’ them to their heart’s content.
Paying doesn’t entitle you to do whatever you want.
The performer is there to entertain you, not to be your slave.
Also in Chicago at the start of Liszt’s Sposalizio. “I can hear you, but you can’t hear me.”
That’s because Brendel has a marvellous sense of humour, and isn’t a pompous prig (albeit a great pianist) like Schiff.
I saw Andras Schiff play Goldberg Variations a few years ago and it was one of the best concerts I’ve ever seen.
That being said, I think the guy [redacted] terrorizes audiences, orchestras, and organizations all over the globe. Very weird. When I see his name on a concert season I can feel the presenter collectively gritting their teeth through the computer screen.
It’s well known in the business that he’s *very* particular about having the “sir” appear before his name in every marketing blurb and press release that goes out. Outside the UK and Commonwealth, people don’t generally take royal titles as seriously, but apparently, leaving it out is one way to get on his bad side.
But agreed, his Bach recordings are among the best.
(Sir) Nick Faldo is very much the same, and he works as a sports commentator, mostly in the US. But he is the textbook (or cartoon) whingeing limey, always feeling that he was underappreciated.
Ah, the US’s last permissible xenophobic stereotype! Do better.
No, his Bach is not “one of the best”. Far from it. There are Gould, Tureck, Landowska, Pinnock to name just a few. The list goes on and on.
Schiff’s Bach is the most annoying of all.He refuses the use of right pedal….for what reason?Why then play on a modern piano to begin with?
He did use the pedal. He explained that previously he had used no pedal. But now uses a light pedal, with the amount depending on the hall. He said he felt it was good first to play without pedal — something which George Malcolm had taught him to do
Quite agree with both Pierre and Piano Lover. Schiff’s Bach is metrically inflexible and very dry. Extreme clarity of a superficial kind is fetishized.
Beautifully put, Apologues.
Indeed—his Bach interpretations are hopelessly antiseptic and precious.
This is just plain, simple, spiteful gossip. Like a child. You don’t know any of this; it is simply what you have heard other people say. It is true what Schiff writes: The world of music is cruel. I will add: Envious, spiteful, gossipy, damaging.
The Constitution of my country explicitly bans the use of such titles, we would use the better suited term of Maestro to address him.
Isn’t the correct protocol, for honorary knights, to just put “KBE” after their name? SIR Nick Faldo is a proper knight, by the way, and by far the best golf commentator I’ve ever heard. (See next comment.)
I also heard his performing the Goldberg Variations in an all Bach programme in Taipei’s glorious concert hall. The packed audience, as often in Asia, was entranced and you could have heard a pin drop throughout. When you have a relatively young enthusiastic audience made up of 2,000 people with, I guess, an average of certainly not more than 40, length hardly matters. It’s the music, the performer and the performance they come to hear.
On the subject of length, another poster has mentioned Meistersinger Act 1. Act 3 is pretty close to two hours. And Rheingold can be as much as an uninterrupted 2 hours 40 minutes. In the dozen or so performances of that work in various parts of the world, I have never seen anyone leave. If the approx. length of a work or part of a concert is known in advance, there is also no excuse for anyone not to prepare in advance, other than illness. Leaving a sensitive and mostly quiet piano recital is a considerable disturbance for everyone.
Dude, what world do you live in? This is an ignorant and elitist comment. I think people like you are part of the reason classical music audiences are shrinking.
If you’d rather treat the concert hall like a branch of Starbucks, then go there.
Elitism is good. It maintains standards.
Absolutely right.
I wonder if he was so demanding last time he played with the Berliner Philharmoniker under Petrenko an atrocious Brahms PC2, full of wrong notes and deliberately simplified as can be seen on YouTube…
Every musician has bad times as a performer. He looked exhausted, and obviously tried his best – which he would’ve known was not good enough.
So then be honest and cancel in order to respect the Music and the audience.
You can’t have it both ways. It’s clear in this case that money, not the devotion to music, was the first priority. Take your precious Schiff off the pedestal.
He’s very happy to simplify virtuoso material. Check the downward scale in thirds in Chopin’s last prelude on YT – even when he was a young man and on a lovely light Pleyel!
A few years back, I had the displeasure of playing under him in a major American orchestra and he was an insufferable prick.
I know exactly what you’re writing about. The orchestra had not prepared, expected to sight-read, and he was angry. Had to drop the Bartok because of your laziness and total lack of professionalism. We are not fools, and we know what happened.
Nope. Try again. Different Orchestra. Our program was not changed. Always plays at a high level no matter what bozo is put out in front. He should stick to playing and not conduct. Bartok Concerto for Orchestra was on the 2nd half.
The answer is to be less precious!
No. The real answer is for orchestras to prepare well, stop watching the clock and thoroughly understand the music they are about to play. A concert is not something made in a factory.
“- Ma dove andate voi?
– A pisciare!
– In missione non si piscia!”
From Pietro Germi / Mario Monicelli film Amici Miei, which actually has what if by a wide margin the best line of all Italian cinema: “governante tedesca severissima”.
Compared to Andras Schiff, Daniel Barenboim is a humble person.
Barenboim has not ever heard the word “humble.” I will refrain from saying exactly what I personally know him to be.
But he’s a humble person, specially when he talks in his native Spanish.
We recently attended the Oberammergau Passion Play which had a 2 1/2 hour session for Part 1 and then a 2 1/2 hour session for Part 2. No one could leave during the performances.
I’m surprised that people left during this performance. Were they informed about the length?
Yes. They were informed. An earlier comment tells us that this was in the programme notes.
Easy solution: sell diapers before the concert, preferably the brand the performer used in this case!
I remember the time Sir Andras asked for two pianos to be unloaded on stage; he wanted to try both of them in the hall acoustics before deciding. As the porters were bringing in the first piano, they told: he will choose this one; he never chose the other one. And so it was.
Does not help. Still sounds boring. And on any instrument.
I don’t think Bach thought he would ever have an audience for his Goldbergs or his Well Tempered studies in the way we do these days etc.
These are indulgences the academic. As for JS Bach I suspect he would needed the loo too – let’s be honest.
Mr Schiff, whom I hold in the highest regard is being a little ‘stiff’ about the whole matter – and needs to put his audience as his priority.
The music is his priority. That is why he is there. No-one forces an audience to be there.
Nothing new. He is a famous a**hole !!
Always full of himself ONLY.
In various clips he comes across like a pussycat but Andras Schiff is a notoriously prickly character.
As a result of his abusive behaviour, the Montreal Symphony Orchestra refused to play under his conductorship.
I once attended a concert where he was incredibly rude to the audience. I forget what the issue was, but he stopped the recital and verbally vented his anger. From then on he completely ignored the audience and ended the recital by getting up and storming off.
He picked up conducting…a new hobby for his continuity may be??
Playing that book II with no break is awful.Why not play both book I and II at once!!
Furthermore his playing is boring is more athletic than musical.
Barenboim plays Bach book II in a more musical manner!!
I like his BACH even more than Richter’s….
I heard that he’ll be soon tackling Sorabji.
OMG! What arrogance and ignorance by the Sir!
Note: NO AGE GROUP truly wants to sit still for 2’20” – not kids, not your average middle-ager, nor your weak bladder group. And if the music is so very special when played in a unreal environment, maybe Sir should stick to recordings and give us a break from these kinds of prima donna outbursts. He’s ridiculous!
Yes, a lot of performances during COVID were without intermission (Salzburg’s Cosi, already reduced, was a very long night without intermission). But COVID is over and, sorry, performers: if you want the honorarium you get in the Musikverein, then don’t ignore the audience.
Again, it becomes clearer and clearer why lots of people give concert halls and opera houses a pass.
So we admire Schiff as a musician enough to go to a concert hall and pay but not enough to put any value on how he wishes to present the music?
There are many films longer than 2 hours 20. Perhaps they should do one matinee with the extra intervals for those who need it for physical disability but most people should not have a problem with this amount of time.
I’ve been through the Goldberg Variations without a break but that’s just over an hour. To be fair, WTC II isn’t any longer than most movies, though yes, those offer a bit more stimulation than watching Sir Andras.
Of course Andras Schiff felt the need to play each book of the Well-Tempered Clavier continuously. Bach never even imagined they would be played continuously in that way.
The answer is to play WTC in a smaller hall and let the people young enough to get tickets on the internet snap them up before the elderly even know about it.
It’s absurd to perform the whole of book 2 or book 1 of WTC in a single sitting. Also extremely unimaginative programming, which isn’t to detract from Schiff’s superb musicianship.
Unfortunately, those leaving during the concert (at least upstairs where we were sitting) were not old people going to the toilet but middle-aged to young people who couldn’t sit through 2.5 hours of Bach.
Fortunate to have been in the concert, I am appalled how Instead of describing facts- for example, not so many people actually left, 20 maybe 30, absolutely not dozens (and all those few only towards the end, and by the way, in that hall even a light walking can sound out). But this article twists it in a way that an outsider who reads it could think that going to the toilet was the primary concern of the evening…Not at all of course. One actually rarely sees so many listeners quietly smiling of admiration of Bach and the pianist. Otherwise, plainly, dozens would have left after an hour or so. Would be curious to see what SlippedDisc and some nasty commentators would write if someone organized a performance of Wagner with a toilet break every 45 minutes!
It’s true that classical music requires a kind of increased attention/concentration on the part of the performer AND the listener. However, this is not an issue of elitism. Rather, it’s a result of the very nature of the music. “Classical” music, for better or worse, generally relies on greater shifts of dynamics, as well as moments or entire stretches of polyphony, subtle (or not so-subtle) plays on the expectations of listeners through harmonic and rhythmic changes that just don’t happen so often in so-called popular genres. If you’ve ever tried to play a Chopin nocturne, you know exactly what I’m talking about. In the span of only a handful of minutes, Chopin rarely uses the exact same harmony twice despite the seemingly simple left hand accompaniments. There are moments of poignant polyphony when inner-voices can often be brought out by a performer to create additional pleasure in the listener. Oftentimes, the dynamics shift from incredibly soft to incredibly loud, or the performer shapes the various melodies with gradual crescendos and decrescendos. When I attend a live, classical concert, I want to hear what the performer has chosen to do with a piece in terms of interpretation, and those interpretative choices can be insanely nuanced. What sense, then, would it make for audiences to be free to make as much noise or distraction as possible? How would that logically allow someone to really enjoy the concert on that higher level? Some might reply- “Stay home, listen to the music on your stereo”. Now there’s an elitist response if ever there was one. So the issue is utilitarian, not elitist. What atmosphere can we create, that allows for the greatest possible level of listening enjoyment? The answer- as quiet an environment as possible. The key there is “as possible”. Every concert goer acknowledges there may be cell-phones ringing at inopportune moments, patrons shuffling programs, coughing, sneezing, the occasional clapping “misfire”. Still, we hope for the best possible experience because live music is so amazing- especially when it is all acoustic rather than amplified- as compared to recorded sound no matter how good your HiFi is at home. Also interesting to note- just about everyone here has probably attended a concert where there was a collective rapture on behalf of the audience. Maybe that was the result of the performer, or maybe the planets just aligned that day, but those concerts where we can all come together in silent, active listening are often life-changing events (or at least extremely memorable). So it IS possible for audiences to be silent and respectful. The alternative is to allow audiences to do whatever, but then the musicians must drown them out with extreme amplification as is the case with most popular music concerts that leave your ears ringing for days.
As for Schiff performing an entire book of the WTC in one sitting- I’ll take a go at defending him. First, he has admitted publicly that playing the entire set would seem crazy to Bach. Still there is compositional evidence that Bach conceived some of his large-scale, multi-movement pieces to be played (or at least contemplated) as a set. For example, the Goldberg Variations begins and ends with the same aria. This would make no sense if Bach never meant someone to at least think of them as a set. Furthermore, there is a French Overture at exactly the halfway point. Compositional coincidence? Maybe, but that seems far-fetched from a composer with Bach’s attention to detail. The WTC also has similar compositional details that suggest Bach conceived the pieces to be thought of, if not performed, in a set. Book I ends with a fugue that uses all 12 tones of the Western system. Again, this doesn’t make sense if Bach just thought of it as another random fugue placed anywhere it could fit. Instead, it forms a kind of bookend (and an amazing one at that). Finally, just because a composer didn’t intend something, doesn’t mean we can’t think of it another way. Bach’s famous Chaconne in d minor for the violin was never intended to played on a keyboard instrument but Brahms and Busoni made arrangements that are incredibly convincing works of art. So I applaud Schiff for trying to perform the entire second book of the WTC in an attempt to find cyclical connections, create a space where such fabulous music can be heard live, and at such a high level (no one here seems to fault Mr. Schiff for his musical achievement thank goodness!). No doubt it requires sacrifice on the part of the listener, comfort included (those benches at Bayreuth are pretty unforgiving, but is anyone really that upset at Wagner for it?). Why not share in the experience and effort a little? Also, some commenters have noted how boring or awful Bach’s keyboard music is. You’re not a philistine for not liking it (though you may be missing some of the point of it, or perhaps you haven’t learned much about counterpoint and polyphony so it’s harder to get at the academic beauty of it). It’s obviously fine to not like something, but then why do you care about the story concerning Schiff and the audience? Yes, he might have gotten a little grumpy about all of the interruptions, but who hasn’t gotten frustrated when they had something important to say but were constantly interrupted or had to wrestle with someone’s inattention?
Tim, you’re on to it, you get it. Thanks for your thoughtful comment. And thanks for aligning planets, instead of stars.
The answer is that Schiff is an utter ass. Bach wrote these pieces over a thirty-year period. They were for keyboard players to read at home at their leisure. He never imagined for a single minute an “integral” performance, and had he gotten wind of one, he would have begged the player not to do them “in order,” as he made no attempt to link them as successive “movements.” He published them in the musically arbitrary arrangement of going up the chromatic scale. Schiff’s “continuity” is a pretentious fiction. As for performance etiquette, everyone in an 18th century audience tended to come and go at will, and talking during the performance was very likely customary and expected. However, historically informed criticism can’t help us much with such matters of audience decorum and bathroom breaks because the modern public piano recital had not yet been invented. Congratulations to Schiff for a strong bladder. Incredible as it may seem to him, the paying customer has rights too.
I think Furtwängler said that only Germans would sit through a concert with a whole book of the WTC. Now we know that Austrians don’t.
The ANSWER IS: His true temperament and character is finally starting to show. I won’t say how I know.
Jeremy Denk played Book 1 in Boston recently without an interval.
who cares?
I am 84 years old (or young) and I absolutely agree with the comlainer. Since usually most of the audience are over 50 it would only fair to schedule a break at a proper point, with an earlyconsultation and coordination with Master Schiff.
Maybe they should have given out diapers before the concert.
We often lament the aging audiences for classical music. Aging bladders are now part of the deal, or so it seems.
The Musikverein, for all its well-deserved accolades, is not a very comfortable hall (even for young people like me). On top of that, there are creaky chairs as well as areas of the floor, like the slopes at the back of the Parterre, which are quite noisy.
During a lengthy symphony performance this isn’t too much of a problem, since considerate audience members will sit still during quiet parts and adjust their posture during fortissimos. However, if it’s a lengthy solo recital, the audience will audibly grow restless, ruining the atmosphere. You can’t ignore human nature, so you should absolutely include an intermission, even if it goes against your artistic sensibilities.
I think some consideration and accommodation for the infirmities of the audience– particularly a classical music audience– are appropriate.
Schiff storm
The fashion for performances of long works without intervals is unrealistic and just that – a fashion. Apart from being cruel to anyone without an exceptional bladder, it also reduces bar takings, when most venues need every penny (to use a very apt word!)
The ill-tempered clavier , book 3 🙂
….and the athletic pianist…
I listened to his book 2 in BBC proms years ago and there was a break, no fuss. Would I wish that there was no break? Why not, but I am younger and don‘t usually drink before event.
The thing is that as amazing book 2 is music-wise, it requires quite a bit attention unless you are familiar with it (eg you have played the whole thing). I think a break can also help a bit for people to retain focus.
I have only good thing to say about that proms. It was a late night proms started at 9:30 and Schiff finished his last note at 12:05. Not a single second losing focus, I felt I witnessed something unusual. Whatever others think, attitude, arrogant, elitism, I don‘t care. That music was what I admired.
Claudio Arrau played his famous Bach cycle in Berlin(1935-1936). The first 4 evenings were devoted to the WTC. Each evening 12 Preludes and Fugues!!!!
When he did this in Detmold a few years ago, without pedal and demanding no applause from the Public, I happily left at intermission not wanting to partake in his ego- “masturbation” and have never bought another ticket or CD from Andreas Schiff. As a concert goer, I felt abused.
What a big deal! Concert organizers should provide side seats and easy access to elderly and sick audience. At the same time Schiff could give up a little sensitivity. 140 minutes are way too much, Bach himself did not compose his books in one long sitting! I remember, he performed in Hungarian Music Academy when he was a kid, all the famous jewish scholars sat in the audience, including jewish scholars from abroad, he played Schuman as an encore and that was longer than the concert itself. I found it long myself and I don’t know how he managed it himself without a toilet break. He must be an alien! At any rate, marathon concerts are not unusual to Schiff.
Moving issues during long performances should be kept low profile, concert organizers should provide elderly and sick audience comprehensive guidance and access to bathrooms. At the same time intentional noise making such ad phone rings, phone recordings at al should be prohibited! Audience today is utmostly undisciplined, arrogant, particularly Asians, who think they are at a markatplace! I saw Pogorelich, Brendel etc interrupt performance bc of unruly audience! On other hand it is the maestro’s judgement who is well fit to the orchestra and who is under prepared! To perform under a great maestro is a privilège, not a must! Ferencsik among the Hungarians, Toscanini, Karl Bohm and many others were also strict, “mean” conductors. Artistic achievements not always come on easy ways! If you cannot take the heat, don’t go to the kitchen! I would be rather be greateful to be disciplined by a great maestro than work with a cheap one!
Schiff Andras is a wonderful musician and pedagog, and a thinking, sensitive human being. He has contributed a huge amount of value to musical life over many, many decades.
But he is aging, and that should be understood, and not held against him.
If he wants to give a concert consisting of an uninterrupted rendition of the whole of book I or book II of the well-tempered klavier, that is certainly not a ridiculous idea, even if most people will think it to be a bad one – I dare say, including the most ardent lovers of Bach’s music and devoted fans of Sir A.
It is was planned and announced as such, and those who attended it should have been prepared for it.
That said, we are all human, and Sir A. should also understand, and accept, that not every audience member will be able to sit out 2 1/2 hours of nonstop well-tempered klavier, even if they want to.
I do agree that it was not conceived by Bach to be performed, at a concert, in its entirety, in one uninterrupted session, and doing so is rather an eccentric idea. But some may have the stamina for it, and enjoy hearing the whole of Book I or Book II at one sitting. I am sure there are many who, in the privacy of their homes, would enjoy listening to it somewhat like that, but even then, a bit of a break might be in order.
I don’t think Schiff is completely out of line in expressing exasperation that not all of his audience were able to stay out the whole time, but it was certainly a bit of a marathon, and not really a very “natural” thing to do.
But there have been other, rather exaggeratedly overloaded programs, and people have endured, and some approved and enjoyed the experience.
But Schiff’s annoyance with the “transgressors” is, I’m afraid, more a sign of his own aging, and diminishing realistic understanding than anything else. Nothing worse. He remains a sensitive and devoted musician, although it must also be said that he is increasingly attached to rather quirky eccentricities, and seemingly unaware of this in his own playing, which, unfortunately, diminishes in quality with the passage of time. That is, I think, more regrettable than the rather trivial expression of impatience that occurred on this occasion. He really was and is a very fine musician, with a wonderful touch, sensitivity and musical understanding and insight. And he still is a great asset to musical life, despite the notable toll that, alas, time and age does take.
Most boring pianist ever. An accountant, not a musician. A glass of vine is far more enjoyable than his music making.
So many negative comments, not nearly enough about the miracle that is this music of Bach. For those who know these works intimately, it’s a pleasure to hear them all – rather like meeting and appreciating good friends. And to experience Andras Schiff’s interpretation in person is an awesome privilege, and certainly not elitist in my opinion. As for hearing it all in one go, if that’s what makes it work for Schiff, then I’m all in, as I would be for anyone with his depth of knowledge and musical skills.
Sir Andras should remember who pays his wages
I’d sit there if popcorn and soft drinks were available. That would be really nice
Did Andras Schiff explain why he chose to play the entire book 2 without a break? It sounds a bit like wanting to make a point regardless of any consequences. For all I know, Bach never intended the WTC to be performed as a cycle for the public in its entirety. He mainly wanted to demonstrate what could be done with the means of counterpoint, and using all keys of the circle of 5th.
He could, of course, get over himself…
There is no “continuity of the music” in the WTC. A break would do no harm.
Mr. Joshua Bell just performed the Tchaikovsky concerto here in San Juan. He was featured in that bastion of classical music in the Caribbean, the Festival Casals de Puerto Rico. That Festival has existed for 60+ years; some “expectations” for audience behavior have been in place for a long time. Well; lo and behold! Mr. Bell got a loud, standing ovation at the end of the first movement! He had to smile, and actually DID NOT discourage (to me, it seemed like he encouraged) the spontaneous reaction to his [magnificent] playing. On the other hand, the great Simon Trpčeski performed Tchaikovsky 1 here in October, same hall, same orchestra, same audience. A rapturous ovation only happened at the very end of the concerto. (And I don’t know where he found the energy to play an encore after that!) Dr. Charles Rosen had some very perceptive things to say about audience applause and the way contemporary are essentially gagged and eviscerated by Victorian misconceptions and Wagnerian megalomania.
Summa summarum if you sick, elderly, purchase your ticket early to the side row where you can navigate gently to the restroom. Returning enjoy the live performance that is sofar incomparable reg performing Bach, if it ever will be!
Summa summarum if you sick, elderly, purchase your ticket early to the side row where you can navigate gently to the restroom. Returning enjoy the live performance that is sofar incomparable reg performing Bach, if it ever will be!
Schiff is sofar one of the greatest Bach performer, next to Richter, if not the greatest. Incomparable to anyone in our lifetime. Listening to him is not enforced to anyone.
This insufferable gasbag’s rendering of Bach is nothing compared to the Dauphin of Toronto!
Wait 5 years. He’ll get to the gnarly A-minor fugue of Book 1, then have to endure the final 4 P&Fs sitting in his own incontinence diaper.
Monty Python couldn’t have done a better job of writing an insufferable, pompous Classical-music narcissist and gasbag, than Sir (that’s, “SIR, AND DO NOT FORGET IT!!!”) Andras gives forth on his own. Loved the SD post a week or so ago about SIR Schiff flying into a rage at a page-turner. This is vintage Monty Python stuff, straight outta Central Casting!
I think Sir Andras is being a tad pretentious; he should ensure his audience is comfortable. (Who’s paying who?) It’s not a though the separate pieces are movements of a symphony. If he must, he could repeat the pre-interval fugue immediately after the interval
I was exactly at that concert. It was the first one I fall asleep at the end… And I love Bach.