Vienna conservatoire goes bankrupt
mainThe privately owned Prayner Conservatoire, founded in 1905, has applied to the Vienna Commercial Court to go into administration. Kurier reports that 170 employees are affected.
The college teaches up to 900 students from 60 countries and employs some of Vienna’s finest musicians.
The owner attributed its downfall to the effects of Covid-19.
If this goes on a lot longer we will be seeing plenty of this, I am afraid. Some predict that there will be hundreds of independent colleges that fail this year and next and as for the independent conservatories, unless they have a Juilliard sized endowment, which none of them do, we could be seeing a very bad situation, particularly in the US.
Even if they are loaned large amounts of money, the cost of paying back will break them anyway
Well, „employs some of the finest musicians“ is a little over the top!
The best and serious way to study music in Vienna is still the university of music and performing arts.
http://www.konservatorium-prayner.at/dozentinnen-und-dozenten
Do some research before shooting your mouth.
Hey Fredo,
relax!
It’s a fact. Scandalous instutition that doesn’t even hire its “lecturers” on a permanent employment like the MDW does.
https://www.derstandard.at/story/2000081242718/private-musikschulen-klassische-geschaefte?amplified=True
Please, don’t compare MDW (Universität für Musik und darstellende Kunst Wien, for those who don’t know it) – a school with two centuries of history, the world’s most impressive list of alumni, and always listed as one of the top music schools in the world – with Prayner: four walls and a roof for students who applied to study at MDW but did not pass the entrance audition.
The seemingly endless list of faculty listed probably comes close to outnumbering the students enrolled. This school obviously will list anyone as teacher as long as they bring along at least one student who can pay.
There used to be private conservatories in the U.S. that operated on the same model. They’re pretty much gone.
I totally agree
How??
The article says that many students stopped paying after the shutdown in March. Many of the international students didn’t come back for the summer term, and remote teaching was not accepted by all of the students nor offered by all of the teachers. There is also a reference to legal problems with the authorities that led to the loss of the licence.
I was aFulbright student in Vienna and I grieve that so many things I held dear—like sanity—are disappearing.
Please tell me you didn’t get a Fullbright scholarship and you spent it at Prayner!
It has nothing to do with Covid 19. The Austrian government revoked their public rights (Öffentlichkeitrechts). That results to students are no longer eligible to obtain students visa to continue studying in this institute.
Exactly, and without foreign students paying for low-quality teaching, poor facilities just to have the right to say that they studied in Vienna, there is nothing!
That school should have closed long time ago!
“Businesses” like this simply exist to cater to the hoards of Asian students who feel the need to have a Viennese experience without ever producing anything of value.
But there is a different type of scam going on that no one really talks about: Some of these students scam their families. I’ve heard about some of them remaining in Vienna for DECADES supported blindly by their families back home. They go to upscale cafes with their fellow countrymen, attend concerts, buy bottles of wine for their current/former professors, etc. They feel like part of something BIG…that is until they eventually get that phone call from Tokyo saying, “It’s been 20 years and you STILL don’t have an income. We have sold off our last lot of land because of your antics. The party is OVER!” However, some avoid ever receiving that phone call by marrying members of Europe’s musical elite.
LET THE TRUTH BE TOLD!
You’re an ignoramus!
Not the nicest way to put it, but partly true. Prayner is the place where end up those who are not good enough for the Universität für Musik und darstellende Kunst Wien (MDW) or the Musik und Kunst Privatuniversität der Stadt Wien (MUK), but want to be able to say in their biographies that they studied in Vienna. And yes, it is full of foreigners, but so are MDW and MUK (they are over 50% in all performance specialties), and that is what makes those schools so special.
I honestly don’t understand some young music students: if one applies to the good conservatoires in Europe (Paris, RCM, RAM, Sibelius, MDW etc.) or the US (Juilliard, Curtis, Peabody, NEC etc.) and doesn’t get an offer, what is the point in trying to be a professional musician? Unfortunately, the competition one would get from the top conservatories would eat alive any aspiring musician who doesn’t study at places like Prayner. It is better to study something else and be a good amateur, than trying to go for a professional career and have nothing. Studying music at places like Prayner and aspiring to be a professional musician doesn’t make sense!
*Correction: I meant “would eat alive any aspiring musician trained at places like Prayner”
If music would be about these things only:
-studying in another country
-studying hard
-being technically better than anybody else
there wouldn’t be any point in listening to any music anymore, would there?
Music isn’t just technicallity and business, it is also feeling, community, creativity and inspiration. And creativity and inspiration usually doesn’t come when you stress the f*ck out of people, even IBM knows that.
Not every school has to be Princeton. And it would be so sad if only the top 10% of „gifted“ students would get the opportunity to get even in contact with a good teacher. Elitism is not music.
Prayner Konservatorium wasn’t Princeton. If you were a lazy b*stard you could still pass sooomehow, it‘s true. But if you wanted to learn something or get really deep into theory or something .. you really could! Just listen to the musicians who have been there. Some are very happy. So not everything was bad about that school. Not every student makes wonderful music just because somebody comes and stresses them out of their right mind, mind you.
It wasn’t Princeton, but it really wasn’t garbage either. It gave people from Asia or so an opportunity to see what all the fuzz concerning music and Vienna is all about. And also, there were some really good teachers there.
And also remember that legal troubles with this kind of a big institution is something political also. Who has the right friends and stuff and who hasn’t anymore.
And also also remember: For the right kind of money you can still buy every passport in the world. Don‘t kid yourselves
Somebody involved said „well, if they start closing for that, they will have to close every other music school too.“ I think I kind of know what they meant.
Prayner Konservatorium wasn’t the best but it really also wasn’t the worst. It was a music school for about a 100 years or so and now it‘s gone. And as you see from the comments and newspaper aricles: not all was perfect there but why exactly it’s incurably gone now or if it really deserves to in comparison is another question
Sad anyhow
Studied there as a child of 6 piano had my finals + masterclasses end of 80s brilliant teacher Bollmann so only if you wanted you could achieve. Ended up in the music business for some years don’t regret a moment
That’s why there are so many language schools and dubious colleges in Oxford and Cambridge. Same principle.
Some musicians live on their family money. When you have rich families the
Children never bother to study or work.
Hordes, not “hoards”. Look after your own education before you start attacking that of others.
Judging from the OP’s name, he appears to be Japanese. He doing pretty damn well in English.
This is far from being a tragedy or be unexpected. I have heard many complaints from both students and teachers about Prayner. From the former it is always about the quality of the teaching, the seriousnes of the institution, the high tuition fees, and the poor facilities. From the teachers I have heard complains about the low level of the students, the low wages, andthe overall organization of the school. For many teaching at Prayner was just away to get some extra money; I doubt any teacher makes most of their income from teaching at Prayner.
The name of Prayner is actually Prayner Konservatorium des Herrn Mag. Josef Schmid, and it is a for-profit music school offering studies in music. It is, for Austrian standards, an expensive place to study.
Prayner is the ‘safety school’ for those who don’t make it to the to either MDW or MUK:
1. Universität für Musik und darstellende Kunst Wien (AKA MDW): tuition-fee free, ranked in the top 5 in all lists of best music schools of the world. Formerly known as Vienna Conservatory, Vienna Academy and Imperial Academy of Music and the Performing Arts)
2. Musik und Kunst Privatuniversität der Stadt Wien (AKA MUK): formerly known as Konservatorium Wien Privatuniversität, Konservatorium Wien, and Musikschule der Stadt Wien. It is owned by the City of Vienna, and even though it charges some fees, the fees of MUK are nothing compared to Prayner.
It is also the place where those need to be in any school in order to obtain a student visa enroll.
Prayner was always used by students and teachers as a stepping stone where they gathered experience before applying to state institutions like MDW or MUK. Many teachers at these two music conservatories got their start at Prayner. Many students who had insufficient German levels also started at Prayner, studied there for 2 to 3 yrs, and then moved on to other more reknowned schools. The level of teaching is inconsitent. Some teachers are excellent and some unfortunately quite bad. That goes for the students as well. The administration was always sketchy. It is no surprise that it has come to this.
Exactly. I don’t see any value in holding a degree from Prayner.
To clarify some rumors:
+) The tuition fee of 1.200,-/ Semester is almost as low as in mdw (800,- but much less teaching, as the mdw works only 1/2 March, April, May, June, October, November, 1/2 December, 1/2 January). Comparing these fees for a completely private school without government support to another private institution anywhere in Europe -Prayner is one of the cheapest ways to study.
+) Why go to a private conservatory? Because mdw and muk have a limited capacity. Some might say that only the “best” pass through the audition, others will say one the students who had contact with the teachers before. Impossible for foreigners, possible for people living here. 6 students from my class switched from prayner to MUK and MDW in the two years after they came into my class.
+) The music education system for amateurs has a right to exist. There is no offer through public music schools as soon as you crossed a certain age limit. Some of my students study IT, Physics, Philosophy – and on Prayner.
+) Yes there are many bad students. But they don’t get a diploma. They stay there, learn, live in Vienna etc and find their way through life with music but living from something else. The diploma from Prayner has equally difficult repertoire to perform as in mdw and muk. Study in Prayner always easy. Finish it, not.
+) Teachers got paid around 70-100,- per month per student. This is not a lot, but compared to the student fees quite a high percentage. Higher salaries would mean higher tuition fees. Prayner was payable for everyone.
+) Many students and many teachers started in Prayner and ended up as students and teachers in public universities. So low the level cannot be.
+) The Ehrbar Saal ist one of the most beautiful concert halls in Vienna. Much more beautiful than any hall of mdw and muk. Google it.
+) Mr. Schmid Ran this institution on his own, a one-person company. He was the authoritarian director deciding everything. The institutions in Austria did not want to work with him as a person any more, he was always insisting that the way he does it is correct. If they asked to reapply for something because some document was not the way they wanted he took a lawyer and sued them. He was working at the city’s direction for education before. He had all insights. But a single person should not run a scho that big. That’s why they removed the Öffentlichkeitsrecht.
+) During Corona Teachers were asked to teach online. I did, many others did, many did not. But they got payed their salaries. The students wanted their money back. Suddenly the school was broke and could not afford any new legal battles coming up.
+) The school should have closed many years ago. This is quite a harsh statement for an outsider, considering how many musicians are on the street during a crisis. Maybe not closed, given to a society, Investors, getting some famous teachers, student fees like in Juillard etc. As a parallel institution to mdw and muk, but privately financed, it would have it’s potential to be profitable.
A lot of people project their own musical failore on this school. It represents “not passing mdw and muk auditions”. Many saw it as a punishment to study there. That we all have seen amazing musicians with horrible teachers and horrible students from amazing teachers is being ignored. It’s not the schools fault if you failed. It’s always yours. Only yours personally. You simply did not work hard enough.
Yes the Ehrbarsaal is a historic concert hall. I agree that with investors and a corporation running the institution, Prayner could function quite well. I also agree that schools for amateurs have the right to exist. Even prestigious schools do not neccessarily produce high level musicians. Many graduates of famous music schools do not end up being professional musicians in the end.
Here are my comments:
– MDW costs Austrian and EU students nothing. They have to pay a contribution to. Is a student uses 9 semesters to finish an 8-semester program, thestudent pais 300+ EUR for the ‘extra’ semester. Students have to pay a contribution to the collective insurance of I think less than 20 EUR per semester. Non-Austrian or EU students pay 700+ EUR/semester. A very cheap price for student to pay for world-class music trining.
– The performance programs (Konzertfach, conducting, composition…) programs at MDW have a majority of foreign studens.
– The repertoire studied at Prayner is indeed the same repertoire as in any other music school in Austria. The level expectations of artistry and technical ability are not the same.
– Tearcher: 100 EUR/month for a student means c.25 EUR/lesson. I pay more my hairdresser.
– “Many students and many teachers started in Prayner and ended up as students and teachers in public universities. So low the level cannot be.”. Well, if a student spends 3 years of a diplom/bachelor at Prayner to then apply to study the 1st year of the same diplom at MDW or MUK…
– Yes, amateur music learning should exist. Of course. That is what private teachers, amateur orchestras etc. are for.
– “The Ehrbar Saal ist one of the most beautiful concert halls in Vienna.”. That is true. MDW uses the Musikverein and the Konzerthaus for its orchestral concerts, and operates the Schönbrunn Theater for opera performances… not bad halls either, if you ask me.
– “The school should have closed many years ago. This is quite a harsh statement for an outsider, considering how many musicians are on the street during a crisis”. Well, closed or merged or bought out… whatever the formula, Prayner should not had been operating that way.
“MDW costs Austrian and EU students nothing. They have to pay a contribution to. Is a student uses 9 semesters to finish an 8-semester program, thestudent pais 300+ EUR for the ‘extra’ semester. Students have to pay a contribution to the collective insurance of I think less than 20 EUR per semester. Non-Austrian or EU students pay 700+ EUR/semester. A very cheap price for student to pay for world-class music trining.”
The numbers are not correct.
Public universities are payed by tax money. A university receives 25.000,- per semester funding per student.
“The performance programs (Konzertfach, conducting, composition…) programs at MDW have a majority of foreign studens.”
Not correct. Only Strings.
“Tearcher: 100 EUR/month for a student means c.25 EUR/lesson. I pay more my hairdresser.”
No, because we don’t teach 4 lessons per month. There are holidays. We come to around 35. Noone was forced to work there.
“The Ehrbar Saal ist one of the most beautiful concert halls in Vienna.”. That is true. MDW uses the Musikverein and the Konzerthaus for its orchestral concerts, and operates the Schönbrunn Theater for opera performances… not bad halls either, if you ask me.”
Not correct. Regular students do not have the possibility to play in Musikverein, KH Etc. Only as part of Orchestras or selected ensembles. Every Prayner Student performed solo in Ehrbar Saal and has a video of it online.
“Prayner should not had been operating that way.”
Absolutely true. That’s why it had to close.
But an opinion is not as important as a fact. And to use half-truths to make a point is very popular in these times, but ignoring the collateral damage of overstatements, slightly fixed numbers, provocative comparisons (Hairdresser) to our society needs to be pointed out.
Actually Prayner still owes its employees salaries from May 2020 onwards…and 70-100 eu per student per month is a joke.
Prayner… they made me stay there 11 years..
I couldn’t speak German, and didn’t know that mdw or muk existed.. after many years i realised the difference.
Prayner is a mafia. Yes, it should have closed long time back.
The repertoire was as same as mdw, mozart, haydn in prayner is the same as mozart in mdw. Many professors in prayner are also professors in mdw. Franz zettel was the head of keyboard department in muk.
Stephan möller is professor in mdw.
Many professional artists were fooled to study in prayner. It is not their faults.
The problem with prayner was the misuse of the öffentlichkeitsrecht. Misuse of visa.
If u study anywhere in the world 3 or 4 years bachelor, 2 years master and 3 or 4 years doctorate is all 10 years in total. Prayner were theives and they robbed their students, who many of them are graduates of prestigious universities in Asia. But unfortunately didnt speak german to understand the system in austria.
It is the fault of Austria to allow this to happen not Schmidt, not prayner not Mozart or Beethoven! It is a shame that the world’s capital of music allowed this rubbish!
Teachers used to treat students very badly during lessons, terrifying them! And students couldnt speak german to understand or to reply back.
Many teachers do not hold a certificate at all! Just like Elisabeth Bolman.
It is the fault and mismanagement of the education system in vienna and the authorities.
Bachelor and master is only newly introduced. Diplomstudium is the equivalent of master. This is what the authorities told us, this is what the Bmuk told us the bundes ministerium für unterricht and also Stadtschulrat. It is not our faults!!!
We are foreigners, nobody guided us to know the difference between prayner, mdw and muk!!!
Ralf heiber was a professor in prayner and head of puano department in haydn kons, now he is a teacher in muk.
There are some good professors, and some very good students, but the management were absolutely theives and terrorists!
And yes! I am happy that this happened to prayner! 11 years of my life is over a decade! I wish i had studied at any uni kn the world, i would have had a doctorate by now!!!
They lied to us about this diplomstudium they said it is a master equivalent..
Anyway, the certificate is issued by the government. So Diplom holders are in the safe side. But those who only took an internal certificate upto Ausbildungstufe, they are now in trouble.
They took 5 months of tuition from me, was already under investigation by the Ministry of Education, let me apply for a visa that would inevitably get denied, emcouraged me to fight it in court while waiting in my home country, and refused to give me a refund saying it was my fault I couldn’t get a visa and I should take lessons on Skype. Still fighting to get my tuition back. I paid for classes towards a degree that they can no longer offer. This isn’t a donation.
he IS a Bozo !!!
If his musical ability is at the level of his English he should have been able to get a cleaning job at Prayner
Hi. I need you guys’ advice. One of my friend studied at Prayner Konservatorium. She is back in her country because of COCID-19. She heard the news that her school goes bankrupt. She earn 117 credits from that school. I wonder how she can keep her degree. Is it possible for her to transfer to other school? Thanks
I studied there under Prof. E. Bollmann, she was my mentor also and gave me the love for classical music.