Classical music stands for an enlightened, humanistic world view….. Where there are suspicions of discrimination, or other anti-humanist motivations, a careful look is entirely justified. This does not mean ‘stupid leftist trends’ or derailled gender politics. While differences between the sexes and/or genders are acknowledged, that does not mean that there are no equal rights.

I have been trying to fathom out what precisely is the point being made here.With only 5 on the jury, it is like one of those questions about how many socks one has to take from a draw with many different colours in it , to be sure of having a matching pair

That is, I mean it’s enough to show there is a problem (of course, here, the field isn’t even. But even if 3/4 of the people appointable to the jury were men, the probability of picking 5 men at random is 24%. In fact, to have a 50% chance of picking 5 men at random, you’d have to assume a field which is 87% men. So this is not an accident).
So the conclusions are clear:
– The field of people considered for juries is much more male.
– There are many more excellent women who are simply not considered for juries because they are not recognized.
– Juries matter, well, because they literally get to pick what is considered excellent.

Faulty logic, I am afraid, Emil. The correct logic is that if there are 32 competitions, each with a jury of 5, we would expect one of them to be all male. Are there at least 32 competitions?

Oh, not again!!! These identity politics in music!! Aren’t we all tired of this stupid leftist trend?

Classical music stands for an enlightened, humanistic world view….. Where there are suspicions of discrimination, or other anti-humanist motivations, a careful look is entirely justified. This does not mean ‘stupid leftist trends’ or derailled gender politics. While differences between the sexes and/or genders are acknowledged, that does not mean that there are no equal rights.

I’d like to thank Sally for letting John out when he has something reasonable to say 🙂

It’s only for this time and I was standing next to him to make sure it WAS reasonable.

Sally

It’s not either/or; it’s ideological.

Yes; those of us over 45 who haven’t been brainwashed, that is.

But if a woman was on trial and the jury was made up of all women, would this news even make it this far? Of course not.

That doesn’t matter, the woman would be innocent anyway.

Sally

?? You seem to think the rest of the world has the same capacity for “fixing the jury” as is allowed in the US.

I have been trying to fathom out what precisely is the point being made here.With only 5 on the jury, it is like one of those questions about how many socks one has to take from a draw with many different colours in it , to be sure of having a matching pair

The probability of randomly picking 5 men from an even field would be 3% (1 in 32). So I’d say that is quite clearly enough.

That is, I mean it’s enough to show there is a problem (of course, here, the field isn’t even. But even if 3/4 of the people appointable to the jury were men, the probability of picking 5 men at random is 24%. In fact, to have a 50% chance of picking 5 men at random, you’d have to assume a field which is 87% men. So this is not an accident).

So the conclusions are clear:

– The field of people considered for juries is much more male.

– There are many more excellent women who are simply not considered for juries because they are not recognized.

– Juries matter, well, because they literally get to pick what is considered excellent.

Faulty logic, I am afraid, Emil. The correct logic is that if there are 32 competitions, each with a jury of 5, we would expect one of them to be all male. Are there at least 32 competitions?

So what? Imposing identity politics is also discrimination.

If it was an all female jury it wouldn’t make any news