Just in: Barenboim calls for recognition of Palestine

The conductor has written an article for the weekly Die Zeit, urging the world to recognise the state of Palestine.

‘You can not expect a compromise between two peoples who do not recognise each other,’ says Barenboim. ‘For a two-state solution, we need two states, and they are not there right now.’

He calls on all countries that have recognised Israel to extend the same courtesy to Palestine. And he responds to President Trump’s acknowledgement of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital with a proposal that it should be the capital of both nations.

photo: Christodoulou/Lebrecht

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        • I just love PC social media comments. Nobody cares what you think either. Barenboim sits in his Berlin bunker and then speaks out. Who cares?? Anybody can be popular by wanting peace on earth. His comments are no more helpful than Richard Gere at the Oscars reminding us not to forget Darfur or to support the Dalai Lama. What have you ever done that will concretely solve the Middle East problems??

          • Barenboim is an very well know Israeli who organized the East-West Divan Orchestra (look it up) and who now supports a Palestinian state and a shared capital. He is a unique voice with a lot of courage (willingness to piss powerful people off) on an issue that doesn’t benefit him all.Its altruism in the highest sense.

          • Barenboim doesn’t just sit in his Berlin man-cave. He goes to the occupied territories regularly, has performed there a few times. And he likely alienates a large number of Jews by speaking out as he does. He also knows more about this issue, I’m sure, than anyone commenting on this site.

          • @Macrov, Bibi has explained something that for all his knowledge DB doesn’t get: that a two-state solution requires mutual recognition and respect and a security cordon around the two-state area for the protection of Israel. Ergo no expert the maestro.

      • Quite right. The Common People in toto should shut up and leave these jolly complicated things to the Great and the Good. This nonsense all started with voting, the seed of all our woes. One of those G and G is as of now planning to take financial revenge against any country that opposes the U.S. policy re Jerusalem. Now, as the countries that do so oppose that policy encompass most of the U.S.’s key allies, I’m not sure that this will go well for Mr. Trump and the State Department. Looking ahead, though, and taking a broader view, it might bode well for a rather large number of countries that are sick of the U.S.’s shenanigans, Mr. Trump’s in particular, and be rather pleased to see this dog back in its kennel. But I’m not a significant politico, so I’m a bit embarrassed about having opinions on these matters — naughty of me, I know. I’m just a retired historian of international relations, not a disinterested politician/stakeholder/mega-corporation. Let us all exeunt and leave the stage to the significant players.

    • Good reply if you prefer soulless conductor without a heart or conscience. Very admirable of you Daniel Barenboim.

    • Daniel Barenboim is not only a great musician, but more importantly a Jewish artist who has dared to speak truth to power in this disgraceful Israeli-Palestine political tragedy.

      • “Barenboim’s conducting has been improving steadily.”

        I’m not much interested in his conducting, but if it has been improving steadily for 51 years, his piano playing has been trending inversely during that time. Perhaps he should be spending more time practicing at the keyboard.
        Of course, in that case, this disgusting, self-hating Jew would have little time left for his anti-Israel screeds and pronouncements. Barenboim knows that if he were not recognized, while wandering in Hebron, he would stand a good chance of getting attacked and killed.
        All in all, not such a bad idea.

        • This is a truly disgusting comment, and the worst of it is that you may have expressed yourself quite well with it.

        • Bravo Mark!! I am not sure I am blood thirsty, but I would not shed one tear of D. Barenboim is out of the picture and permanently out of the music scene.
          There are some uneducated “smart asses” like Borstlap whose Left-wing comments make little if any sense, and who propagates fake news, but cannot face real facts and has no answers, except say that all that is rubbish. And like any Left-wing anti-Semite, he admires Barenboim sticking his stinking nose into something Barenboim has no idea about – politics. And he does it exclusively for self promotion, because his piano playing stinks and his conducting is even worse. And that is exactly what musicians of ANY statue should refrain from doing. It stinks to witness when some Hollywood “smarties” become suddenly political activists, and, of course, mostly on the Left fascist side. So is Barenboim. A Jew – anti-Semite – the worst breed of a human being.

          • “A Jew – anti-Semite – the worst breed of a human being.” What an absurd statement! For you anyone who dares to critize Israel’s politics is an “anti-Semite”, even if this dissident himself is a Jew. I for one can see quite a few other contenders for the title of “the worst breed of a human being”, and an amazing number of these seem to use this site to spit their venom. But apparently this is alright as long as it serves the higher cause of generating clicks.

  • Highest praise to him. Either there is a two-state solution or the Palestinians are, at least if the Israeli Government gets its way, reduced to second-class citizens — an atrocious idea I strongly believe is not feasible.They would soon be ‘Less-than whole citizens’. And I suspect the Government knows it is not feasible and knows what the consequences may well be. Further, I rather think those consequences fit well with their real agenda.

    • There has already been a two-state solution in “Palestine”. It just so happens that the Palestinian state is called Jordan, formerly Trans-Jordan, illegally carved-out of Mandatory Palestine by the Brits and given to the Hashemite clan of Mecca to rule after they had been exiled from Arabia by the al-Saud clan, and in return for Hashemite support of the Brits in WW1. In effect, Palestine has been “occupied” by the Hashemite clan for over 75 years, but that’s ok apparently since they are Muslim.

      There has never been in history any sovereign state or nation known as Palestine, nor is there a “Palestinian” nation or ethnicity, the term properly being only a geographic term (which was formerly used to apply to Jews as well), and not an ethnic/national/ religious one. Nor has there ever been a Muslim political entity, whether under Arabs or Turks, that had its capital in Jerusalem. The invention of “Palestine” and ” Palestinians” as an alleged nation, and their alleged claim to Jerusalem, is a modern one, and a disgusting scandal.

      • Well stated! Let us please note that Gaza is entirely “Palestinian” and utterly devoid of ethnic “diversity,” such as Christians and Jews!

      • Well said, Denis. Your summary crisply explains the origins of this problem that ensnares idiots like Barenboim and eviscerates all the arguments for any so-called Palestinian claims over Jerusalem.

        Jerusalem will, forever, be Jewish.

      • There was never in history a sovereign state or nation known as Italy… or Brazil, or India, or Mexico, or The United States or [long list]… until someone made one.

      • This is not the place to open that large tank of worms, but whether a ‘Palestinian state’ was officially declared or not, fact is that the people living in the area were driven away by foreigners, who claimed the lands on the basis of a holy book and something that happened to their forefathers almost 2000 ago. That was illegal, whatever you try to explain it by turning it round left or right, it was a grave injustice and a state built upon such injustice has structurally built-in an ever bleeding wound – as we see today.

        If an ideal world would begin in the Muddle East, the Israeli government would make an official apology for what had been done to the locals half a century ago by earlier generations, so that the Palestinians get satisfaction for what has been done to their earlier generations, and create a single Israeli/Palestinian nation entirely based upon a secular Western democratic system where religion and ethnicity has no legalized power, and where the Palestinians are accepted and integrated as fullblown civilians plus a financial support system to compensate for past injustices and desperate poverty. That would, in the longer run, take-out the sting of fanatic Palestinian terrorism, and make it possible for people with different background and different histories and religions and ethnicities to live peacefully next to each other, as it was in early 20C Libanon (the Rivièra of the Muddle East).

        This would be an entirely rational idea. But given human nature as it is…..

      • Your blurb re Jordan has no practical application in this mess. Also, yes, the ‘invention’ of Palestine is a scandal — perpetrated on the Palestinians.

        Bravo to Robert Holmen and John Borstlap.

        • I have to agree with every single word that Nick has posted here.There seems to be quite a collection of these self-hating Jews around.To the ones already mentioned I would add the loathsome Norman Finkelstein and the pathetic Noam Chomsky.Do they really believe that the Israel haters that these traitors to their people, these loathsome individuals,support would thank them for their services to musllm terrorist organisations like Hamas and Hezbollah? They (the self-hating Jews) are Jews and they will receive precisely the same treatment that these haters of Jews mete out to any Jew that comes within their grasp.Once ,of course, they have served their purpose.

        • All the good willing people that argue for a “joint democratic state for Jews and the self called Palestinians is in a kind of denial of what has been happening in the last 70 years in Lebanon, Iraq, Siria, Egipt and so on , in which countries live people of the very same “ethnicity”, traditional culture, religion and the slaughter going on is appaling. And the “worst”: the is nothing to do with Israel what Assad did to his people, or Daesh made to their people or Hizbollah made to the Maronite Christians in Lebanon, and the Muslims to the Copic Christians in Egipt. I appreciate people that are good willing, but I cannot condone with just lack of reality judgement.

          • And concerning Barenboim: I have the utmost respect for him as a musician. Excellent pianist, outstanding maestro. But I must say that his character has been sometimes of doubtful quality according to some. When his late wife, the incredible cello player Jacqueline du Pre got ill with MS, it was said that he did not behave in a very courteous way towards her, and someone even wrote a theater play about it, putting instead of a cellist as the wife, a violinist. And there are other “little” things, like his arrogant decision to play a piece by Wagner in Israel at the main hall, against the direction of the theater, and of the public. Not including it in the program (as asked) he gave it as an encore. Shameful

      • The right word at the right time: before WWII “Palestinians” were the Jews and Christians living there, today’s “Palestinians” identified themselves simply as “Arabs.” In practice, that semantic question is today probably irrelevant.

  • While the world is at it, why don’t they recognize Kurdistan, Taiwan, and Tibet? There is a much greater linguistic and ethnic basis for these places than “Palestine.” And, why did the world acquiesce in Russia grabbing Crimea? It’s puzzling that Barenboim obsesses on one issue to the exclusion of the others.

  • Does the Palestinian authority officially recognize the Jewish state Israel’s right to exist? I think we all know the answer….

  • A most heated issue for sure, and I can understand why Mr. Lebrecht brings it to light here. Complicated and multi sided for sure, especially because Barenboim is an Israeli and a Jew living and working in the former Nazi capital (sp). My own take on the situation is a complicated one as well, and I don’t have the strength to elaborate in writing. However, I would dearly be interested to know what the “gay,Jewish Kangaroo” Barry Koski’s feelings are on the subject.

  • As a Jew and a musician i have sometimes pondered the phenomenon of the so-called “self-loathing Jew”.I have wondered if there is such a thing in reality.I have met Jews who I am sure would prefer not to be.They do not enjoy the sense of “otherness”,or they feel that their careers might be better if they were not Jews.( Mahler and Mendelssohn two good examples).they are all too aware of anti-Semitism and it is very unpleasant, or they have friends or relatives that suffered in the Holocaust.Even those Jews who succeed mightily in the non-Jewish world often have a sense of insecurity and imagine that life would be sweeter with less hassle.I think that it is possible that they take on this dislike ,or worse, of the non-Jewish world and wish for some sort ot Tarnhelm,to make their Jewishness go away. It is very sad and very futile.Sometimes they try to join the ranks of their enemies and join in the tactics of the Jew haters.In order to gain favour? I’m not sure.I personally find it depressing to witness the disloyalty towards his own people displayed by public figures like Barenboim. I much prefer the stalwart loyalty to Israel and the Jews as shown by figures like Evgeny Kissen.

    • The term self-hating Jew is usually inaccurate. Most of these people are very fond of themselves but are far from keen on other Jews, especially Israelis.

    • To feel committed to race is in itself not a very enlightened view. Nobody is responsible for the way he/she is brought into the world and therefore, is free to consider race irrelevant. Whether others do the same towards oneself, that is quite another matter. And then, where people from Jewish background/descendence are high-achievers in classical music, that is not because they are Jews, but because they are high-achievers. And where it does play a role, it is because they try to compensate for being ostracized.

      • Judaism 101: Who Is a Jew?
        http://www.jewfaq.org/whoisjew.htm
        A Jew is any person whose mother was a Jew or any person who has gone through the formal process of conversion to Judaism.
        ‎Jew” and “Judaism” · ‎Who is a Jew? · ‎Matrilineal Descent

        I believe Hitler went by this too.

          • To Mr Nick: you did not read correctly. I was born a poststructuralist and had to struggle all my life to get rid of its orthodoxy, and working for JB greatly helped me to overcome cultural relativism. Of course this has nothing to do with JB’s own belief which I don’t know at all.

            Sally

          • To Mr Nick’s last burb: I apologize for the interferences of my PA who is a very emancipated woman of great physical strength, so I have to be cautious. She no longer suffers from poststructuralism, I am happy to say, and apart from a rather cavalier handling of my correspondence and quite a will of her own, there is not much to complain about. I was quite surprised that her mother converted to Foucault (which is both a religion and a culture) but of fascism there is no trace. (Although she likes discipline.) Oh, she just said that you should visit both your therapist and urologist.

  • So true Robert Holmebn a.o. It will be interesting to see what any nation’s or ethnicity’s representants will pull out of their hat next as ‘identifying them’, and ‘giving THEM righ to whatever land’, as opposed to so-called others. Compulsory Dna tests maybe?..lovely and ooh so clearly separating ME from YOU as we know, and ethically of course absolutely brilliant!!! Let’s go for it! hey!!!? or lighting candles, or wearing head scarfs or ponchos? Or believing in father christmas? Or the Bilble said so?? Or checking degree of curly hair by testing if het pen sticks in it otör not (an anciant South African well tedted method). Hitler would love this stuff, wasn’t this just what he (among millions and of others, some of thrm in this forum too by the looks of it, propagated)?
    I realise!, the immense complexity of our social structures, but let’s at least try to avoid bringing utterly and completely nonsensical paradoxal argumentation into the discussion.

  • Well, as is genetically proven, the people – call them Palestines or whatever you want, doesn’t mater – who live in that region, are the people who have lived there for thousands of years. Semites.
    Most of the people who are Israelis today and immigrated to that place, have no such background or lineage. Sorry, mythology doesn’t count. Not in the 21st century among adults.
    Now what is needed is a solution for the people who exist and live there anyway. A two state solution seems to be the only way this could be done atm.

  • For those banging on about the Palestinians and how badly treated they are, you might like to read the following extracts from the Hamas Charter:-

    ‘[Peace] initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and

    international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of

    the Islamic Resistance Movement… Those conferences are no more than

    a means to appoint the infidels as arbitrators in the lands of

    Islam… There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by

    Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a

    waste of time, an exercise in futility.’ (Article 13)

    ———————————————-

    Anti-Semitic Incitement:

    ————————

    ‘The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and

    kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the

    rocks and trees will cry out: ‘O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind

    me, come and kill him.’ (Article 7)

    So can someone explain to me how you negotiate a peace settlement with a genocidal set of maniacs who explicitly state that 1. You have no right to exist as a country and 2. All Jews should be hunted down and killed.

    But of course the lefties and hamas appeasers (are you listening Corbyn) seem to constantly turn a blind eye to the murderous intentions of these islamic nutters.

    • Those extremists merely took advantage of the Palestinian population’s despair and frustration and anger to get power and to arrange something that looks like a state. People who are desperate or angry enough, are capable of voting for ANY party that might change something of their predicament, as we can see with trumpists and brexeteers. Nazi Germany is another example. And the Palestinian locals are willingly taken hostage to completely crazy and inhuman ideology. As long as these Hamas people ‘run’ the Palestinians, no deal or comprimise is possible.

    • The Hamas is the perfect counterpart to the Israeli right wing extremist hardliners. So perfectly fitting actually, creating the pretext for Greater Israel in the long run, that one could say, if Hamas didn’t exist, one should create it. Who knows, maybe they did. Shalom!

      • No, I have to disappoint you. My thoughts are fertile.
        You don’t think the people who asassinated Rabin are capable of such cabal?

  • The most disgusting political gesture from one of the worst human beings (a Jew-anti-Semite!!) D. Barenboim. Not only a traitor to Jews and Israel, but also a mediocre pianist and even less as conductor.
    One does not have to be particularly well educated to know that Jerusalem has absolutely no relationship to Islam, it is not even mentioned in any Islamic books, Quran included. Jerusalem, of course, IS a center for all religions. But Islam’s religious center is MECCA, not Jerusalem.
    The is NO such people or nation, or language as “Palestinian”. In fact the name “Palestina” was created by Romans to define the JEWS, their land, who were not Romans, Greeks, Christians, who were “foreigners” – Philistines. This is the origin of the word Palestina. It meant “THE JEWS”. There is not doubt in my mind that Barenboim knows that much of Jewish history. The first mentioning of “Palestinians as people” was after 1967 when Israel won the war against Arabs’ attempt to demolish the country of Israel. It was the muslims who occupied Israeli land and occupy it till now, not the other way around. Neither Hebron, nor Bethlehem are muslim cities. These are all oldest Jewish cities and should belong to Israel. Sure there must be a two-state solution: And that is: Jordan is the Arab land for Arabs (from Palestina or anywhere else). There cannot be three Palestinian States” Jordan, Gaza West Bank and East Jerusalem and only one Israel. The present Palestinians want three States and the anti-Semites in the United Nations (99% of the world) support that. Two State solution means: Israel and Jordan. That is it. Mr. Barenboim should learn history, although I doubt it will help him. People like him do not learn, all they can do is memorize a page of text instantly. That is where their ability ends.

    And I have a question to NL: what if the U.N. says tomorrow that the capital of Great Britain should be Manchester, not London? And all the anti-Semitic United Nations vote to move the British capital to Manchester?
    What would NL do? I wonder….
    So, all this is simple and shameful BULLSHIT! The capital of Israel should be decided by the people and the Government of Israel, and it is of nobody else’s business. All recent American presidents (Clinton, Bush, Trump, even Obama,) confirmed that they agree that Israel’s historical and present capital should be JERUSALEM. ALL OF IT, West, East North and South. Israelis and their Government agree and this is what it should and will be regardless of what judeophobes like Barenboim say.

  • An arrogant, know-it-all ass of a man.

    See, for example, this interview :
    When it comes to cigars, and especially with public acceptance of them, Barenboim can be equally impassioned. “The way American people are dealing with cigar smoking, and the way in which it is limited in public places, is against all the principles of American democracy and freedom of thought,” he says.
    https://www.cigaraficionado.com/article/the-conductor-daniel-barenboim-7616

    • The smoking is all the fault of Arthur Rubinstein who seduced him into it when B was a teenager. And concerning the ‘know-all’: DB is one of the very few performers who occasionally also consider subjects outside the musical profession. I think that in itself is something to be admired, whatever he says.

      • He can smoke all he wants. My issue is his telling other people that it’s undemocratic for them to expect that he not do it in their faces.

        Nothing wrong with considering subjects outside of one’s profession, but something is wrong about being a know-it-all who likes to TELL other people how they should feel — and looking down his nose at them for not feeling as he does.

        (For instance, his agreeing that he won’t have his German Orchestra play Wagner in Israel, then doing so nevertheless, then lying about what happened, then preaching about how holocaust survivors are supposed to feel about it. Or telling people how they should feel about his cigar smoke. Or a Palestinian State, for the consequences of which he will have no skin in the game (no children or grandchildren that will be slaughtered as a result) — with he and his offspring safely ensconced elsewhere, living in luxury.)

  • Pushing for two separate (and unequal) states is not particularly pro-Palestinian or progressive, quite the opposite.

    A two-state solution at this point would likely only make permanent the “achievement” of the Nakba: the ethnic cleansing of millions of non-Jewish people from their homes and country by the Israelis, which continues to the current day.

    DB is surely aware that his posh house in Jerusalem rightfully belongs to a family of Palestinians who were chased out of it under threat of death…why doesn’t he seek to return it?

    If he or anyone else really wanted to make a statement, they would register as Muslim on Israel’s religious registry, demand equal rights for all minorities in Israel, and refuse any of the privileges they enjoy from the racist state until things improve.

    • “DB is surely aware that his posh house in Jerusalem rightfully belongs to a family of Palestinians who were chased out of it under threat of death…why doesn’t he seek to return it?”

      You can not just say what you want. You have to back up such claims. I don’t believe that is true.

    • I agree, the weepings and wailings and breast beating by “lefties” who “identify” with the palestinian cause (the fact that 99.9% of them have never been near Israel or the gaza strip rather undermines their virtue signalling) but seem unable to acknowledge that the palestinians are ruled by a bunch of genocidal maniacs intent on destroying Israel as a country and exterminating every Jew they can find. Give me a break!

  • The tone of much of these missives makes me think that your readers have confused Slipped Disc for an alt right chiropractor’s blog!

  • We printed this comment and pasted it on the blackboard in the hall, inviting staff to add their own suggestions as to whom and what this might refer.

    Sally

  • Does Barenboim identify as a Jew anytime other than when he condemns Israel? Does he identify as a Jew to the extent that he takes steps (let’s say akin to his concern that they will appreciate Beethoven, Wagner, and Mozart) to raise the odds that his grandchildren, great grandchildren, etc will appreciate Judaism and be Jewish?

  • For a superb musician, Barenboim is a very stupid, nasty, self-hating Jew. He is also a most disagreeable, selfish, narcissistic man and his Divan orchestra is a sham. Stick to your music, Daniel. He obviously has a Personality Disorder

  • Could someone please list all the positive outcomes in terms of improving Isreali – Palestinian relations that Barenboim has achieved with his West East Divan Orchestra?

    • And, given that this is a music blog, please list as well examples of positive outcomes to WWii European Jewry due to Jewish participation in Europe’s great orchestras.

      • For instance, were any of the 6 million Jews they gleefully turned in to the Germans for slaughter given, let’s say, a extra few minutes of life or perhaps a morsel of food as a thank you for their people’s playing so nicely for them n Europe’s orchestras and concert halls?

        Will Barenboim’s Palestinian State be any kinder to the Jews, to whom the Hamas leadership pledges the same fate?

        Barenboim won’t share Israeli’s Jews’ fate, as he will be sipping fine wine, smoking fine cigars, and tinkling the piano keys in European plushest salons.

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